Guto is a personal name. My guess is that the entry Edward of Guto might be a transcription error of Edward ap Guto: Welsh patronymic for Edward son of Guto. But then again the sense of Edward of Guto could be Edward son of Guto. Rhodri -----Original Message----- From: dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Lynne Simpson Sent: 10 August 2009 00:08 To: dyfed@rootsweb.com Subject: [Dyfed] Jane Bateman married Edward of Guto Hi Listers I have another strange question: In a family tree of the Batemans of Trenewydd I have Jane Bateman (d/o John Bateman and Anne) who married Edward of GUTO. This marriage would have taken place about 1610-1620. Can anyone tell me where GUTO might be? All I can find on the web is mention of a person named Guto. Thanks Cheers Lynne Simpson Canberra Australia ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.33/2267 - Release Date: 08/08/09 18:17:00 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if this message has not been received by the intended recipient; please delete it from your system and inform: mailmaster@rhod.net thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Vera Thank you for that information. I will look into it and see if it connects with my Scourfield data. Cheers Lynne Simpson Canberra Australia

Dear Pat and listers I must have been having a senior moment this morning! My Henry James born abt 1837 Solva... was married to Harriet Griffiths, Brynhenllan of Dinas it was their son Stephen Morris James who was married to Anne Evans Smithfield. thanks in anticiapation Melanie. > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:22:41 +0100 > To: mel.stark@hotmail.co.uk > CC: dyfed@rootsweb.com > From: pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Pembs JAMES > > Hello Mel > > I'm a bit confused as I can't find your Henry in Dinas with a wife Ann. > There is a matching Henry in Dinas with a wife Harriet who I think was > possibly Harriet Griffiths. They were married in 1867 registered in > Cardigan district. > > I think this Henry was previously married to Elizabeth Mathias daughter > of Thomas and Martha of Trevinant farm in St Davids. > They were married in 1860 registered in Haverfordwest district. > > There is a Henry James with a wife Anne in Brawdy but he doesn't seem > to fit your desciption. > > If you tell us a bit more about your links maybe we can help. > > There are a few Possibles for a Henry James from the Solva/Whitchurch > area in the 1841 census so a marriage certificate would be necessary to > prove the right parents. > > > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > > > > > > In message <BAY117-W2399303A346C333EE7C84FA7080@phx.gbl>, melanie stark > <mel.stark@hotmail.co.uk> writes > > > > > > > >Dear listers, > > > > > > > >Looking for my great great grandfather's family - his ancestors > > > > > > > >He was Henry (also spelt Hendry on one census) JAMES born abt 1837 in > >Solva/Whitchurch according to various Census reports > > > > > > > >i have him in Dinas on 1871 to 1901 census with his wife Anne EVANS - she born > >Smithfield Dinas > > > > > > > >Any help appreciated. > > > >Mel > > > >Fishguard > > > > > > > >also researching in North Pembs: OWEN, THOMAS, EVANS, CORNOCK, MORRIS & > >GRIFFITHS all in the following areas > > > >DINAS CROSS, (INC CWM-YR-EGLWYS) FISHGUARD, LLANLLAWER, LLANYCHAER, MANOROWEN, > >LLANSTINAN. > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > >Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. > > > >http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U > > > >================================ > >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com > >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > >the message > > -- > pat _________________________________________________________________ Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U

Dear Melanie RG4/3920 April 17th 1836 Baptised at Solva Chapel Henry son of David and Martha James of Trelodan in the parish of Whitchurch, County of Pembroke. Child Born......(no date given) Mothers Maiden Name James. Fathers occupation Labourer, by me Thomas Mortimer. 1841 Living at Leckell, Whitchurch David James, age 35, occ Agricultural Labourer, born Pembs. Martha, age 40 and Mary age 9, Elizabeth age 7, Henry age 6, Martha age 3, together with mother inlaw Mary James age 75, Agricultural Labourers Widow. September 7th Sunday 1834. Baptised Solva Meeting House Elizabeth daughter of David and Martha James of Trelodan in the parish of Whitchurch. Child Born 1st August 1834. Mothers maiden name James. Fathers occupation Labourer by me Thomas Mortimer. January 20th 1833. Baptised at Solva Mary daughter of David and Martha James of Whitchurch in the said parish. Mothers maiden name James. Child Born December 27th 1832. Fathers occupation Labourer by me Thomas Mortimer. 22nd September 1831 at St Davids David James married Martha James. Best Wishes Sylvia ................................................................. Pembrokeshire Census, Memorials, Hearths, Orielton CD's and Baptist Sketches at www.cenquest.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "melanie stark" <mel.stark@hotmail.co.uk> To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: [Dyfed] Pembs JAMES > > > > Dear listers, > > > > Looking for my great great grandfather's family - his ancestors > > > > He was Henry (also spelt Hendry on one census) JAMES born abt 1837 in > Solva/Whitchurch according to various Census reports > > > > i have him in Dinas on 1871 to 1901 census with his wife Anne EVANS - she > born Smithfield Dinas > > > > Any help appreciated. > > Mel > > Fishguard > > > > also researching in North Pembs: OWEN, THOMAS, EVANS, CORNOCK, MORRIS & > GRIFFITHS all in the following areas > > DINAS CROSS, (INC CWM-YR-EGLWYS) FISHGUARD, LLANLLAWER, LLANYCHAER, > MANOROWEN, LLANSTINAN. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. > > http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Mel I'm a bit confused as I can't find your Henry in Dinas with a wife Ann. There is a matching Henry in Dinas with a wife Harriet who I think was possibly Harriet Griffiths. They were married in 1867 registered in Cardigan district. I think this Henry was previously married to Elizabeth Mathias daughter of Thomas and Martha of Trevinant farm in St Davids. They were married in 1860 registered in Haverfordwest district. There is a Henry James with a wife Anne in Brawdy but he doesn't seem to fit your desciption. If you tell us a bit more about your links maybe we can help. There are a few Possibles for a Henry James from the Solva/Whitchurch area in the 1841 census so a marriage certificate would be necessary to prove the right parents. Cheers Pat In message <BAY117-W2399303A346C333EE7C84FA7080@phx.gbl>, melanie stark <mel.stark@hotmail.co.uk> writes > > > >Dear listers, > > > >Looking for my great great grandfather's family - his ancestors > > > >He was Henry (also spelt Hendry on one census) JAMES born abt 1837 in >Solva/Whitchurch according to various Census reports > > > >i have him in Dinas on 1871 to 1901 census with his wife Anne EVANS - she born >Smithfield Dinas > > > >Any help appreciated. > >Mel > >Fishguard > > > >also researching in North Pembs: OWEN, THOMAS, EVANS, CORNOCK, MORRIS & >GRIFFITHS all in the following areas > >DINAS CROSS, (INC CWM-YR-EGLWYS) FISHGUARD, LLANLLAWER, LLANYCHAER, MANOROWEN, >LLANSTINAN. > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. > >http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U > >================================ >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message -- pat

Dear listers, Looking for my great great grandfather's family - his ancestors He was Henry (also spelt Hendry on one census) JAMES born abt 1837 in Solva/Whitchurch according to various Census reports i have him in Dinas on 1871 to 1901 census with his wife Anne EVANS - she born Smithfield Dinas Any help appreciated. Mel Fishguard also researching in North Pembs: OWEN, THOMAS, EVANS, CORNOCK, MORRIS & GRIFFITHS all in the following areas DINAS CROSS, (INC CWM-YR-EGLWYS) FISHGUARD, LLANLLAWER, LLANYCHAER, MANOROWEN, LLANSTINAN. _________________________________________________________________ Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U

Vera A pdf document written recently may possess some assistance to you. The Sherlocks of Ireland and Wales http://www.theflyingscotsman.ca/sherlock_tree.pdf Regards Arthur E Turner-Thomas Genealogist to H.R.H. the Countess of Wessex _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/

Retrospectives: Cardiff International Airport, Rhoose, GLA; Cardiff Castle, Cardiff, GLA Dear Listers, This week's Retrospectives, just uploaded onto my website, are: 1. A visit to Cardiff International Airport at Rhoose, near Cardiff in the old county of Glamorgan (seven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in February 1998. 2. An exploration of the historic castle in the centre of Cardiff, in the old county of Glamorgan (eleven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in March 1998. As usual, these webpages will be on display on my website for one week. 'Retrospective Images of Wales' is at www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/retro/retro.htm After viewing the Retrospectives, please explore my 'Webpage Archive' and make your own Retrospective requests. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) mailing lists

I have seen the name of HERBERT spelled Harbert/Harbett.? I would be watching for different spellings of that name.? I have Herbert in my line but they were not in Pembrokeshire.? Good luck.? Annie Attached Message From: Julie Smith <jmsmith202@yahoo.com> To: DYFED-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Dyfed] Hannah Narbett Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:40:20 -0700 (PDT) My ancestor Hannah Harbett (or Narbett) was married to Philip Hancock on 11th August 1811 in Camrose, both were stated as being of this parish. One of the witnesses at the marriage was William Harbet (Narbet) - could be father, brother? ?Hannah died in 1874 aged 91 in Burton. In the 1851 to 1871 censuses she was a widow and stated her birth as being in Camrose. So far I have been unable to find other Harbet (Narbet) born in Camrose, I see there were some families in Llawhaden. I wonder if anyone has access to a potential baptism for Hannah or can otherwise link her with other family members? Thanks Julie Attac

When I started researches into my Gibbon families many years ago I made notes and they are rather haphazard, I have to admit, but I am posting this bit because it may help my years of trying to find out where my Gibbons came from. So further to the comments about the names of Scurlock and Scurlage I have a note that Scurlage Castle later became known as Trecastle. Isn't this the present day name? My notes say that Scurlage Castle was inherited by the Gibbon family from Sir Herbert Scurlage of Norman origin and from Sir Richard de Clare about 1250. It was near Llandewi in Gowerland. The notes were taken from "Morganiae Archeographia" by Rees Meyrick (or Mireke) 1578. This family of Gibbon seems to be connected to the Dr. John Gibbon who built St. Fagan's where the name Trecastle is used. There were a lot of Gibbons in that area after that. But there were Scurlocks in Pembrokeshire, too, so there must be a connection I would have thought. Does any of this make sense to anyone? Vera

CDGN . Marriage between JOHN LEWIS c 1833 Troedyraur/Llangunllo and MARGARET THOMAS c1831 same place .please can anyone help me here or possibly the birth of there son John c1861. many thanks regards Brenda (Respective fathers were Benjamin Lewis and John Thomas..)

Dear Arthur and Bettye Thank you for the feedback about SGOFEN. Scourfield is certainly a name prominent in the area and occurs within the family, so this certainly may be worth pursuing. Cheers Lynne Simpson Canberra Australia

Hi Julie Suggest you look under the LDS website for the family name Narbett. There appear to be more of the family from Llawhaden Good luck Gerry Lewis-Steer, Calgary, Canada

Hi Julie In the LDS site under IGI I found: William Narbett married Anne ? approx. 1790 Llawhaden. He born about 1765 and she 1769 Children were John born about 1791 and James about 1793 - both in Llawhaden. Hope this helps. Have no other records.My Camrose records were for some of my ancestors and were on specific years. It was just fortunate that the Hancocks were on the sheet. Gerry Lewis-Steer, Calgary, Canada ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Julie In my records I found the Camrose baptism certificates of: Mary , daughter of Phillip and Hannah Hancock. Baptised 8 Sept. 1822. Their abode was Keeston and the father was a butcher. 1 May 1825, Eliza daughter of Phillip and Hannah Hancock Abode was Keeston and the father was a labourer Hope this is of some use. Gerry Lewis-Steer, Calgary, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Smith" <jmsmith202@yahoo.com> To: <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:40 AM Subject: [Dyfed] Hannah Narbett My ancestor Hannah Harbett (or Narbett) was married to Philip Hancock on 11th August 1811 in Camrose, both were stated as being of this parish. One of the witnesses at the marriage was William Harbet (Narbet) - could be father, brother? Hannah died in 1874 aged 91 in Burton. In the 1851 to 1871 censuses she was a widow and stated her birth as being in Camrose. So far I have been unable to find other Harbet (Narbet) born in Camrose, I see there were some families in Llawhaden. I wonder if anyone has access to a potential baptism for Hannah or can otherwise link her with other family members? Thanks Julie ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Vera, Scurlage Castle was on the Gower peninsula in Glam. A Google search throws up a few sites including this one: http://www.gowercamping.co.uk/gowerguides/gowervillages.htm See entry for Scurlage. or possibly more reliable this CADW site: http://www.ggat.org.uk/cadw/historic_landscape/gower/english/Gower_040.htm Dai Vera Lowe wrote: > Is there any connection between these two families and what does anyone know > about the Scurlocks? I did a lot of research into my Gibbon families and > Scurlage came into it. There was a Scurlage Castle, I believe. Where was it? > Vera > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Dear Lynne, Mr. Turner-Thomas has suggested Scofield......it is more likely "Scourfield", particularly as William Scourfield's estate (died c. 1622) included "One-fourth part of the manor of Honyborough held of the Prince of Wales as his lordship of Haverfordwest by knight's service, being of the clear annual value of 3s. 4d." as per page 152 of Francis Green's article "Scourfield of New Moat". Somewhere I have another article written about the Scourfields exploding some myths, if I remember ....I shall see if I can find it. Quite often spouse names were omitted in the old pedigrees ..sometimes generations. I'm pretty sure the Reeds trace to Green Castle (Castle Moel) Carmarthen...... and I will have to try and find the notebook I was working in many years ago when I was looking at this family myself. Bettye Kirkwood. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Turner-Thomas" <arthur.turnerthomas@live.com> To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:14 AM Subject: [Dyfed] Batemans of Honeyborough, Pembroke Dear Lynne The entry SGOFEN is extracted the table GWEHYLYTH LLAN LLAWEN found at page 173 of Heraldic Visitations of Wales by Lewys Dwnn. This is the only entry found within his entire work, which may indicate an error of spelling or speech. The surname as indicated may be Scofield. Some of the cymraeg found within Dwnn's work may be local dialect, therefore would be specific either to that area or may be Dwnn's own iaith (language), which has presented some difficulty for those persons whom are strangers of the welsh language, and has confounded numerous genealogists for many years. Amusingly this was a gripe (although tongue in cheek) of the late Peter Bartrum when I met him at the National Library of Wales in 2008, when the subject of Dwnn's work was raised. Irrespective Dwnn's genealogies still represent the backbone of welsh genealogy, a subject I feel which should be discussed in a differing posting. I would suggest further research within this work. Returning to Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies 1400-1500, the entry found within Batman p. 60 for William the spouse is omitted. Which is in line with his policy, if unreliable or no evidence could be found the entry was often omitted. Chwaer literally translated is sister, so Catherine was the sister of Gruffudd Ryd. The Pembrokeshire historian: journal of the Pembrokeshire Local History Society No. 2-1966 Rickeston and Scotsborough does mention: "William ap Rice, the second brother, enjoyed the estates. Described as "de Brydeth, gentleman", he served on a jury in the Great Sessions in 1550-1, and in 1566-68 was escheator for the county. He married, before 1548, Elizabeth daughter and coheiress of Thomas Bateman of Honeyborough, by Catherine Reed his first wife. This was the Thomas Bateman who had married the widowed Alice of Rickeston so that he was step-father as well as father-in-law to the bridegroom." But sheds no light on your query. As an aside Catherine Reed may be of the Reeds of Roche. May I suggest you contact the National Library of Wales, who may provide further information as they are transcribing Bartrum's work. Regards Arthur E Turner-Thomas Genealogist to H.R.H. the Countess of Wessex ............................. From: Lynne Simpson < lsimpson@netspeed.com.au> Subject: [Dyfed] Batemans of Honeyborough, Pembroke Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:32:10 +1000 References: <mailman.127.1249110022.5938.dyfed@rootsweb.com> In-Reply-To: <mailman.127.1249110022.5938.dyfed@rootsweb.com> Hi to the list I am currently looking at the family and descendants of Jenkin Batman of Honeyborough who was living there in the late 1400s / early 1500s. Jenkin Batman > John > William (m Jane Laugharne of St Bride's) > Philip Batman. Philip Batman of Honeyborough married Jane Wogan (d/o Sir John Wogan and Maude Klement). Philip had the following: Thomas Batman m (1) Jane Wogan, (2) Katrin Ryd (3) Alson Martin with Margaret Ginlytes as a possible mistress John Batman m Sian (Jane) verch John ap David ap Gwilym ap Rys of Lystyn William m SGOFEN of Ros (parents of Hari Batman) This information was taken from a family tree prepared by John Batman in 1591 (provided by Bettye Kirkwood .... thank you!). My question is: who or what is SGOFEN? I can find nothing on the web to indicate that this is a person's name, nor that it is the name of a place. I presume Ros is RHOS near Milford Haven. Delighted to hear from anyone who has any ideas. Cheers Lynne Simpson Canberra Australi _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is there any connection between these two families and what does anyone know about the Scurlocks? I did a lot of research into my Gibbon families and Scurlage came into it. There was a Scurlage Castle, I believe. Where was it? Vera

My ancestor Hannah Harbett (or Narbett) was married to Philip Hancock on 11th August 1811 in Camrose, both were stated as being of this parish. One of the witnesses at the marriage was William Harbet (Narbet) - could be father, brother?  Hannah died in 1874 aged 91 in Burton. In the 1851 to 1871 censuses she was a widow and stated her birth as being in Camrose. So far I have been unable to find other Harbet (Narbet) born in Camrose, I see there were some families in Llawhaden. I wonder if anyone has access to a potential baptism for Hannah or can otherwise link her with other family members? Thanks Julie

Dear Lynne The entry SGOFEN is extracted the table GWEHYLYTH LLAN LLAWEN found at page 173 of Heraldic Visitations of Wales by Lewys Dwnn. This is the only entry found within his entire work, which may indicate an error of spelling or speech. The surname as indicated may be Scofield. Some of the cymraeg found within Dwnn's work may be local dialect, therefore would be specific either to that area or may be Dwnn's own iaith (language), which has presented some difficulty for those persons whom are strangers of the welsh language, and has confounded numerous genealogists for many years. Amusingly this was a gripe (although tongue in cheek) of the late Peter Bartrum when I met him at the National Library of Wales in 2008, when the subject of Dwnn's work was raised. Irrespective Dwnn's genealogies still represent the backbone of welsh genealogy, a subject I feel which should be discussed in a differing posting. I would suggest further research within this work. Returning to Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies 1400-1500, the entry found within Batman p. 60 for William the spouse is omitted. Which is in line with his policy, if unreliable or no evidence could be found the entry was often omitted. Chwaer literally translated is sister, so Catherine was the sister of Gruffudd Ryd. The Pembrokeshire historian: journal of the Pembrokeshire Local History Society No. 2-1966 Rickeston and Scotsborough does mention: "William ap Rice, the second brother, enjoyed the estates. Described as "de Brydeth, gentleman", he served on a jury in the Great Sessions in 1550-1, and in 1566-68 was escheator for the county. He married, before 1548, Elizabeth daughter and coheiress of Thomas Bateman of Honeyborough, by Catherine Reed his first wife. This was the Thomas Bateman who had married the widowed Alice of Rickeston so that he was step-father as well as father-in-law to the bridegroom." But sheds no light on your query. As an aside Catherine Reed may be of the Reeds of Roche. May I suggest you contact the National Library of Wales, who may provide further information as they are transcribing Bartrum's work. Regards Arthur E Turner-Thomas Genealogist to H.R.H. the Countess of Wessex ............................. From: Lynne Simpson < lsimpson@netspeed.com.au> Subject: [Dyfed] Batemans of Honeyborough, Pembroke Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:32:10 +1000 References: <mailman.127.1249110022.5938.dyfed@rootsweb.com> In-Reply-To: <mailman.127.1249110022.5938.dyfed@rootsweb.com> Hi to the list I am currently looking at the family and descendants of Jenkin Batman of Honeyborough who was living there in the late 1400s / early 1500s. Jenkin Batman > John > William (m Jane Laugharne of St Bride's) > Philip Batman. Philip Batman of Honeyborough married Jane Wogan (d/o Sir John Wogan and Maude Klement). Philip had the following: Thomas Batman m (1) Jane Wogan, (2) Katrin Ryd (3) Alson Martin with Margaret Ginlytes as a possible mistress John Batman m Sian (Jane) verch John ap David ap Gwilym ap Rys of Lystyn William m SGOFEN of Ros (parents of Hari Batman) This information was taken from a family tree prepared by John Batman in 1591 (provided by Bettye Kirkwood .... thank you!). My question is: who or what is SGOFEN? I can find nothing on the web to indicate that this is a person's name, nor that it is the name of a place. I presume Ros is RHOS near Milford Haven. Delighted to hear from anyone who has any ideas. Cheers Lynne Simpson Canberra Australi _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/