Hello Bettye, James and the DYFED list from David Gilroy in St.Albans , Herts. First what a marvellous list this is and thanks for showing an interest in my DAVIES and LEWIS families of Clydey and Penrydd respectively . Being a Dyfed "rookie" - I don't have a clue even how to access the Land Tax records - how do you do it ? You have brought good news ! Definitely , Rachel LEWIS at Ddolpwll in 1837 is mine .In the 1841 Census Benjamin and Rachel LEWIS are there with my Phoebe LEWIS and her daughter (By David Davies )Charlote DAVIES age 2 yrs . My theory so far is that Benjamin and Rachel LEWIS died there certainly by 1851. My David Davies probably moved in with Phoebe Lewis at Ddolpwll ,because there is a birth registration I have for a Rachel DAVIES there 6 February 1845.There may also be another child Esther later . However by 1849 this lot had left Ddolpwll and Hannah DAVIES birth registration of David and Phoebe appears at Penratt Doleu ,Clydey . By 1851 ,they had moved to Merthyr Tydfil - David Davies had turned from farmer to coal miner ! Opinion please ,folks .The only David Davies ,born about 1822 in Clydey who was the right age , right area ,right time appears to be in the 1841 Census with parents John DAVIES and Jane -farmer . Could the "earlier" David Davies tenant in 1814 be a relative maybe father or brother of John Davies? My Phoebe Lewis was born in St.Clears in about 1816 and there is an igi entry there -parents Benjamin and Rachel LEWIS so that stacks up ! I really appreciate the information some of it a bit too early at the moment .At the risk of outstaying the excellent welcome I have had ,if anyone can consolidate any of this with church register information - I will be very grateful . I am currently joining the Dyfed FHS and am planning a visit to NLOW next summer with field visits to you know where! Who knows what we will find in the new online Wills at NLOW ? I have been in family history for 26 years and belong to six FHS's already .This list is excellent - you and Rootsweb can be very proud of it .I take my scrum cap off to you all ! Look forward to more discussion. Best wishes , David Gilroy in a cold miserable St.Albans . 20 October 2009. ----- Original Message ----- From: "LC & BJ Kirkwood" <lki59595@bigpond.net.au> To: "James Lloyd" <jblloyd@kc.rr.com>; <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Cc: <gilgen@ntlworld.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] DYFED Digest, Vol 4, Issue 329 > Dear James and David, > > Don't know if it will help, but I have had a look at the random > Clydey Land Tax sheets I have. > > From 1786 (when they started) Hendrewilym is mainly tenanted by > Samuel Hughes and presumably his son John Hughes > from 1796. A little later a couple of others join John Hughes as > tenants. > From c. 1814 David Davies..(he could be there earlier as I have > 1801, then 1814) was the tenant at the next door property Star right > up to about 1820 when he was one of the additional tenants at > Hendrewilym, though still working away at Star. > > The 1831 Land Tax is most difficult to read...(my copy, anyway).and > for Hendrewilym there are a couple of names, but none look, to me, > like Davies, neither is he next door at Star........it is then > tenanted by David James but right next door to David James the farm > is being worked by a Wm. Lewis. There is a David Davies c. fifteen > entries away tenanting a place I can't read....appears to begin with > a D...it may be Dycoed as the last few letters appear to be awr ( > for fawr?) whilst the next listed property is Dycoed Issa. > > Phoebe Lewis of Penrith may have been visiting her farming father or > brother or another relative at Clydey..they are adjoining areas. In > the Historic Pemb. Houses book Dolpwll Penrith was said to be, in > 1837 owned by Thomas Brightwell Esq. with Rachel Lewis as tenant. > > Of course, there could be father and son David Davies....or from a > couple of families at Clydey. > > Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Lloyd" <jblloyd@kc.rr.com> > To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] DYFED Digest, Vol 4, Issue 329 > > >> David, I was interested to read about a David DAVIES from Clydey, >> thinking >> maybe there's a link with my ancestor David Davies of Manordeifi >> who was >> married to the sister of Thomas Lewis of Llwyngravis, Cards. Lewis >> bought >> Clynfyw there in 1753 from Owen Davies, grandson of David Llewelyn >> of >> Pennalty Cych, Clydey. My David's father was John David Llewelin >> who died >> in Manordeifi in 1724. I believe he was related to David Llewelyn >> of >> Penallt Cych. Perhaps your David is descended from this David >> Llewelyn. >> >> My line had a Philip Davies who died in 1851 in Carmarthen and who >> had a son >> named Thomas Zephaniah Davies (1818-1896). If you run across them >> or a >> Zephaniah Davies, we might be researching the same family. If so, >> I'd very >> much like to compare notes. >> >> James Lloyd >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:40:51 +0100 >> From: "David Gilroy" <gilgen@ntlworld.com> >> Subject: [Dyfed] Distance between a Place in Penrydd and one in >> Clydey >> . >> To: <DYFED@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <47B7CDC7F76F4EC58F20CDC5AFD30016@oemcomputer> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Hello List from David Gilroy in St.Albans,Herts - a brand new >> member of >> this Dyfed List . >> >> Help anyone please with the detailed local geography of Penrydd and >> next >> door parish of Clydey . >> >> I am totally ignorant of the area so help me learn fast with my >> LEWIS and >> DAVIES ancestors in the 1800's - 1850's >> >> In the 1841 Census my ancestor David DAVIES was living at >> Hendrewylyn ? >> Clydey with his family . >> >> By then he had fathered a child by my ancestor Phoebe LEWIS living >> at >> Ddolpwll ,Penrydd (Penwith). >> >> What is the distance between these two places ? >> >> What detailed map would anyone recommend ? >> >> I am not into the parish registers of Penrydd and Clydey yet - any >> help with >> CMB of these two places from >> >> say 1800 to 1850 greatly appreciated . >> >> Thank you for bearing with me - I never dreamed I would break out >> of Merthyr >> TYdfil in 1861 ! >> >> David Gilroy . >> >> 15 October 2009. >> >> >> >> >> ================================ >> Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

Dear Reuben I have looked at 1871 to try and get some clues as to where you get your information about Martha from. You say Martha would be about 4 in 1861, so I am presuming you have seen her age 14 on the 1871. Where was she then? The only Martha James age 14, I can see in Haverfordwest in 1871 age 14 was a servant in Scarrowscant and born in Haverfordwest. There is also a 18 year old Martha born and working in Hayscastle is she the one you are thinking may be her? I am happy to look for you but need to know where you have your information from up to now. Looking at 1881 there are 4 people with the name Martha James in Haverfordwest. Three are of the wrong age and the only one which is anywhere near the correct age is living at the Union Workhouse, age 28, born in Whitchurch and unusually it does say Married, occupation Farm Servant. Without a bit more info I would be guessing really. Is there an address on the birth certificate? Best Wishes Sylvia ................................................................. Pembrokeshire Census, Memorials, Hearths, Orielton CD's and Baptist Sketches at www.cenquest.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "hunkadoon" <hunkadoon@ntlworld.com> To: <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: [Dyfed] JOHN JAMES, HAVERFORDWEST >I am a newcomer to the list, enquiring about Martha James, mother of John, >b. Nov.5th. 1881. > There is no father's name on John's birth certificate, so presume Martha > was unmarried. > John's place of birth is given as Quay Street, Haverfordwest. > I am seeking further info on Martha James, who according to the 1871 > census, > would be aged abt. 4 on the 1861 census. > > Is anyone able to look at the 1861 census to confirm this and Martha's > place of birth, > which may have ben Haycastle. > > Or is there anyone on the list with info. on the marriage of her parents. > > Yours in anticipation > Reuben > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

I am a newcomer to the list, enquiring about Martha James, mother of John, b. Nov.5th. 1881. There is no father's name on John's birth certificate, so presume Martha was unmarried. John's place of birth is given as Quay Street, Haverfordwest. I am seeking further info on Martha James, who according to the 1871 census, would be aged abt. 4 on the 1861 census. Is anyone able to look at the 1861 census to confirm this and Martha's place of birth, which may have ben Haycastle. Or is there anyone on the list with info. on the marriage of her parents. Yours in anticipation Reuben

David, I was interested to read about a David DAVIES from Clydey, thinking maybe there's a link with my ancestor David Davies of Manordeifi who was married to the sister of Thomas Lewis of Llwyngravis, Cards. Lewis bought Clynfyw there in 1753 from Owen Davies, grandson of David Llewelyn of Pennalty Cych, Clydey. My David's father was John David Llewelin who died in Manordeifi in 1724. I believe he was related to David Llewelyn of Penallt Cych. Perhaps your David is descended from this David Llewelyn. My line had a Philip Davies who died in 1851 in Carmarthen and who had a son named Thomas Zephaniah Davies (1818-1896). If you run across them or a Zephaniah Davies, we might be researching the same family. If so, I'd very much like to compare notes. James Lloyd Message: 3 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:40:51 +0100 From: "David Gilroy" <gilgen@ntlworld.com> Subject: [Dyfed] Distance between a Place in Penrydd and one in Clydey . To: <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <47B7CDC7F76F4EC58F20CDC5AFD30016@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Hello List from David Gilroy in St.Albans,Herts - a brand new member of this Dyfed List . Help anyone please with the detailed local geography of Penrydd and next door parish of Clydey . I am totally ignorant of the area so help me learn fast with my LEWIS and DAVIES ancestors in the 1800's - 1850's In the 1841 Census my ancestor David DAVIES was living at Hendrewylyn ? Clydey with his family . By then he had fathered a child by my ancestor Phoebe LEWIS living at Ddolpwll ,Penrydd (Penwith). What is the distance between these two places ? What detailed map would anyone recommend ? I am not into the parish registers of Penrydd and Clydey yet - any help with CMB of these two places from say 1800 to 1850 greatly appreciated . Thank you for bearing with me - I never dreamed I would break out of Merthyr TYdfil in 1861 ! David Gilroy . 15 October 2009.

Hi: the land Tax Assessments for Carmarthen are terrible. I don't know about Pembroke but Cardigan has very good tax assessments. I only wish that CMN did as well. Sometime I think people who do what they did to CMN LTA should be drawn and quartered or put in the stocks. Annie Attached Message From: Joy <joy.cozens@btinternet.com> To: dyfed@rootsweb.com; Roy Davies <roydavies@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Dyfed] [Spam] Re: Marriage licences and bonds - and,Probate Bonds too!!! Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:56:17 +0100 Hi Roy Unfortunately, unlike Pembrokeshire, the coverage of Land Tax Records for Carmarthenshire is very poor and I do not think that they will be of any use to us in tracing our Treharne's as I have already looked at that aspect. However I will email direct to you an attachment giving details of all Land Tax Records for Carmarthenshire and whewre they are held. Regards Joy Attach

Hi Bob A subscriptionsite gives access to some articles in the Western Mail which is not specific to Pembrokeshire but covers South Wales - http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/ You might also find some in The Cambrian index which is held at Swansea - The Cambrian - Index 1804-1930 - http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/?Lang=eng So, at present, there are no specifically Pembrokeshire newspapers online. Regards Joy <http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/?Lang=eng>

Bob You said " Are there any online Newspapers with searchable databases for the Pembroke area, I am sure this information would be a helpful resource for many members of this list." I replied that whilst its not exactly what you are asking for, I do a tremendous amount of Pembrokeshire newspaper research in relation to my talks on military family headstones research of ex-servicemen in Pembrokeshire, whilst pre Boer war obits of the "common" man are limited unless there is a good story i.e. falling out of a train at Manorbier Newton in 1868, the 20th century contains many pembs obits with vast amounts of surnames and relationships of families stretching around the world, i.e. the events surrounding Submarine E5 in 1913. If you wish to give me a date of death I can always have a look for you and send you a jpeg of the results. Photocopies of newspapers are not allowed at the Rec Off., but you can get copies of the microfilm newspapers from the Reference Library at Haverfordwest. Hope this helps. Rgds Owen Vaughan ORIEL a welsh window on a surname Forget the rest, get the best - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music

Hi Bob Apart from modern obits I'm not aware of any. But if anyone can add anything to the Newspapers' data on these 2 Genuki pages please let me know. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/#Newspapers http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/index.html#Newspapers Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "robertgascoigne" <robertgascoigne@cox.net> To: "Dyfed Family History" <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: [Dyfed] Newspapers for Death Notices in Pembroke > Hello List > > Are there any online Newspapers with searchable databases for the > Pembroke area, I am sure this information would be a helpful resource for > many members of this list. > > Bob

Hi Roy Unfortunately, unlike Pembrokeshire, the coverage of Land Tax Records for Carmarthenshire is very poor and I do not think that they will be of any use to us in tracing our Treharne's as I have already looked at that aspect. However I will email direct to you an attachment giving details of all Land Tax Records for Carmarthenshire and whewre they are held. Regards Joy

Dear Listers   I saw this for the first time very recently and as Remembrance  Day is approaching thought I would post it.   I can't work out whether CMN is part of Dyfed as far as DYFED list is concerned.. but this may be of interest to anyone who hasn't come across it before.  Apologies if I have crossed a boundary..  but many of the fallen may have come originally from Cardiganshire, or Pembs - and Cwmann is included on the list.   This is the Carmarthenshire Country War Memorial record online.  The research and care that has gone into this site is impressive.   http://www.laugharnewarmemorial.co.uk/   "This site was originally set up to remember the men on the Laugharne War Memorial, but it has slowly been expanded to include all of the men & women of the counties of Carmarthenshire  who died in both World Wars. Information will be added bit by bit, and any comments, criticisms or help are welcomed. Information will be added by means of a separate web page for each Town or Parish, as information becomes available....any contributions in the form of photographs of the people, war memorials or graves (are always welcomed) to help in this massive task. "   ....   "ESTIMATED CASUALTY FIGURES FOR THE COUNTY "The Original Carmarthen County War Memorial listed the names of 1,913 men & women of the County who gave their lives in the Great War. This was made up of 3 Nurses, 123 Officers, 254 Non-Commissioned Officers & 1,533 Other Ranks. After painstaking research, this figure has now been expanded to around 2,700 men & women to WW1, and 1,050 in WW2, and more are being uncovered all the time. Many of these are mentioned on the memorials of more than one village, which makes research difficult."   Please pass on.   Regards Jen

Hello List Are there any online Newspapers with searchable databases for the Pembroke area, I am sure this information would be a helpful resource for many members of this list. Bob

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/ Hello Dick Enter the above into your Address bar and it will take you to the site, It has many different area's and the people are very helpful. scroll through the first page and it will show you the many different Areas ,There is a Forum for Pembroke shire that is very helpful. Bob -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Fowler" <dfowler1@onetel.com> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 1:56 AM To: <robertgascoigne@cox.net> Subject: Dyfed list- B & G forums? > What and where are the B&G forums pls? > > many thanks Dick Fowler

Dear Roy, Many thanks for sending the references. I was given a reference from this site previously, the one concerning Henry and John Garnons, but it all makes fascinating reading. It is still a great puzzle to me.......the early Garnons and James families were interconnected over in the Trevine and surrounding areas, perhaps one of those was the original James who came to Pantsaison. Amongst my ancestors are Alice Rowland and her husband William Garnons......Alice was said to be of Pantsaison, Monington, in one record...I've found records of various Rowlands at Pantsaison in the 1600's so they were obviously in residence there prior to the James, but were they owners of just lessees? One of the Rowland girls married a William James......but from where???? There were several James families in the general area...to add to the confusion. I recently came across James of Pantsaison connections to other James families near Nevern. In a hurry to get ready for a couple of months in Queensland, I left the computer running overnight as it was compacting.......somehow it jammed and I lost a fantastic amount of stored information which does not seem to be recoverable. I've only been home again a couple of days, so haven't really had time to evaluate my losses, but I think the items I am referring to have disappeared. Re the item you are particularly interested in BD/RW/24...just because the two John James were involved in leasing arrangements, they were not necessarily related. Of course they might be....but as you can see from the other records John James had his fingers in a thousand pies and he certainly wasn't related to all of them. When time permits I'll have a further look at the James charts and see if I can find a John, or a Thomas, who might fit your search. Hope the Land Tax records bear some results. Regards. Bettye Kirkwood

Dear Carol, I can't read my own writing...John Lloyd aged 24 in 1833 would have been born 1809...he may have been actually born 1810.....ages are always a little suspect. I have found instances too where the rector has written down the wrong name...knowing the family...he just confused the children. Sometimes they wrote up their records days after the event, and it is so frustrating to find a record with the first name blank. If you order the burial records for 1813-37 perhaps you could also have the family baptisms checked. In earlier times I have found two children with the same first name in one family.....not differentiated in any way in the father's Will, except that he named and numbered them in order of arrival....it was not an uncommon occurrence in early times, probably named after two different ancestors, maybe even from different sides of the family...... but I would imagine in the 1800's they were a little more thoughtful. Regards Bettye Kirkwood.

Dear Carol, The IGI can only ever be used as a guide....the three entries all say "about" and were probably submitted by separate people, perhaps estimated dates to fit into their own research. The parish records give the parents' marriage as 1810. The actual parish records should always be checked....particularly for a name such as Lloyd. Perhaps you should purchase a copy of the marriage record.....witness names can then be checked, often leading to other family members. Usually whether the participants are bachelor and spinster, or under age, is also shown. I have a typed list of Prendergast burials from 1823, 24; 27, 28, 29 and 32/33 ......these are random years for selected Devonald entries. They came from Pembrokeshire Records Office at Haverfordwest....but you could purchase the additional pages of the same list which has been put together from the parish register between the years 1813 and 1837...I presume. There are no James Lloyds appearing in the years I have....probably most are the children mentioned by David Font who said his ancestor first married in 1804 (John Lloyd m. 1804 New Moat to Martha Luke according to the index)): Mr. Font may already have the list of burials. This is what I have: William Lloyd, Village, 28th. April, 1824 aged 10 George Lloyd, Bridge End 14th. Dec. 1824 aged 6 months Wm. Lloyd, Prendergast village, 22nd. Aug. 1832 aged 62 Martha Lloyd, Prendergast village, 15th. Jan. 1833 aged 2 George Lloyd, Prendergast village, 30th. Jan. 1833 aged 2 (?) John Lloyd, Bridge End, 8th. August, 1833 aged 24 John Williams Lloyd, Bridge End, 26th. Nov. 1833 aged 22. Carol, Bridge End is where your family resided....so this only adds to the confusion. John Williams Lloyd may have been your couple's eldest child. Who then was the John Lloyd of the same place who would have been born 1807? Did Bridge End house several Lloyd families? There is only the one James Lloyd marriage in all the Dungleddy Hundred records......did James Lloyd have a prior wife to Elizabeth Anne Williams and actually come from somewhere outside the area? You already had George's birth, now you have knowledge of his death. Oh dear....at least there are still avenues you can explore. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Lloyd" <manxie55@hotmail.co.uk> To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] LLOYD births IGI > > Hi List, > I have a query please? > I have been looking on the IGI for my LLOYD family and have come across > three James LLOYD's. > All entries are extracted from the Bishops Transcripts on IGI. > > 1) James David Pawlett LLOYD b. ABT 1813 at Prendergast, Pembroke ? died > when? > 2) James LLOYD b. ABT 1819 at Prendergast, Pembroke ? died ? when? > 3) James LLOYD b. ABT 1820 at Prendergast, Pembroke. > > Until recently, I had the second James LLOYD as being married to Mary > JAMES b. ABT 1839 at Dinas, Cardigan, Pembrokeshire,Wales. > > Obviously now, that is wrong as the other two James' must have died very > young. > All three have the parents: James LLOYD and Elizabeth ANN (Pawlett > WILLIAMS ) > But, I can't find their deaths on the IGI, would anyone be able to help me > with this? > I will need to make corrections to my tree. > Sorry to ask for help again, as you have been brilliant to date:0) > Kind Regards, > Carol LLOYD > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use Windows Live Messenger for free on selected mobiles > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Bettye, Many thanks for your detailed reply which is most helpful. I had not realised that the land tax records could be purchased but I will follow up your suggestion soon. A few years ago you sent me some information about Sodston, part of which I quote below. "In documents relating to the estate of Martha and Thomas Noot's administrative duties, there is a statement by Benjamin Rayson Thomas, Tea Dealer, who had known George Devonald for 30 years and upwards...part of it reads.." "THAT THE SAID FIELDS OR CLOSES OF LAND CALLED SODSTONE FIELDS WERE ALSO PURCHASED BY THE SAID GEORGE DEVONALD IN HIS LIFETIME OF ONE JOHN JAMES AND, AS I HAVE HEARD AND BELIEVE IN OR ABOUT THE YEAR ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN, AND FORMED TWO OF FOUR FIELDS NEAR RUSHACRE, HERETOFORE CALLED THOMAS DAVIES LAND, AND SITUATE ON THE WEST OF THE ROAD LEADING FROM NARBERTH TO REDSTONE.  ..." At the time I did not know what to make of that and left my James line alone to pursue easier branches of my family tree. However, when I returned to this line recently I came across some information about Sodston and also Pantsaeson, which I know you are interested in, in the Robertson Williams Papers which were found in Pantsaeson but for some reason were subsequently transferred from the Pembrokeshire Record Office to the Powys County Archives. Fortunately the Powys Archives have put a very detailed summary of the papers online. BD/RW Robertson Williams papers AccNo.264 http://www.powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/B_D_RW_bi_01.pdf The bit that interests me is the following snippet. BD/RW/24 24 November 1813 1. John James of Pantsayson, now residing in Haverfordwest, esq. 2. John James of Sodston, p. Narberth, co. Pembroke, farmer Lease for 18 years Of ms. etc. Sodston and Gellyfach and 2 cottages and gardens and 4 fields etc. at or near Rush-acre, p. Narberth (of 2.) Rent : oe222 Other terms Dorse : 'Surrendered in 1815' When the threat of the postal strike is lifted I will have to see if I can get a copy of that document. Pantsaeson is mentioned in other parts of the Robertson Williams papers too.  As far as I know the Jameses of Pantsaeson don't have any connection with mine, but perhaps if I can get back further I may discover that there was some connection. It is interesting that both are mentioned in that particular document in the Robertson Williams Papers. If you have not already come across it you might be interested in the book below, the full text of which is available on the web. There is a paragraph in it about a James from Pantsaeson. The church in Madras : being the history of the ecclesiastical and missionary action of the East India Company in the Presidency of Madras in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries (1904) Author: Penny, Frank Volume: 3 Subject: East India Company; Missions -- India Tamil Nadu; Tamil Nadu (India) -- Church history Publisher: London : Smith, Elder CHAPLAINS H.E.I.C.S. AND H.M.I.S. 343 http://www.archive.org/details/churchinmadrasbe03penn Mark Wilks William James was born in 1818, being the son of Colonel John James, of Pantsaison, Pembrokeshire, and afterwards of Ilfracombe, in the county of Devon. He graduated B.A. in 1840, from Oriel College, Oxford, and took the M.A. degree in 1843. He entered the Company's service in 1847; served at Arcot, Poonamallee, and Quilon. Suffering from sunstroke, he returned home in 1855, and retired. He died in 1875. He was one of the nephews of General Sir Mark Wilks, the Commissioner and historian of Mysore, and it was through his influence that he obtained his appointment. He was one of many Oxford men who came under the influence of the Tractarian movement, and was profoundly affected by it. As in the case of others at the same period who were similarly influenced, the result show ed itself in the form of doctrine rather than ritual and ceremony. He married a daughter of Captain T. P. Jones-Parry, E.N., of Wrexham, who died in 1910, aged eighty-nine. As I said, I have no definite evidence of any connection between that particular James line and my own so if anybody else does have any information about the John James of Sodston or the Thomas James of Llawhaden and the other Jameses I mentioned in my original message I would be greatful. Regards, Roy On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:07 AM, LC & BJ Kirkwood <lki59595@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > Dear Roy, > > For some unknown reason your message turned up in the Spam Mail on my > computer.....I wonder if other Listers did not see your request. > > My suggestion to you would be to purchase Llawhaden Land Tax records from > Pemb. Records Office at Haverfordwest and track the ownership and the > various properties that way.  These cover from 1786 to 1831 and show > proprietor's name and tenant. > > VAYNOR Llawhaden.......quite a bit written about it in The Francis Jones > Historic Pemb. Homes & Their Families (Extended edition). > Extracts: > > > ........."After the death of William Skyrme in 1787 the mansion house and > lands of Vaynor were put up for sale.  The sale particulars state that the > tenant was Mr. Thomas James, who had a lease for life of Thomas James aged > 39, his wife aged 35 and his daughter aged 13 years; the freehold was > offered of  'All that capital Messuagem or dwelling house and lands with the > barns, stables, outhouses, building, gardens, orchards and water corn grist > mill, thereunto adjoining and belonging, called and known by the names of > Vaynor and Pontshane Mill. > >

Hello Annie, I don't know who the Olivers were but they have been in Wales since approx 1670. Strangly some have the same unusual Christian names wherever they lived in Wales e.g. Lewis Oliver. There was a contingent around Dinas Pembs and also New Quay and Llangeler. The name was certainly a surname until 1850's in Fishguard area. Many thanks Yvonne ----- Original Message ----- From: <cardi2@aol.com> To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:53 AM Subject: [Dyfed] French People in Cardiganshire > There was an Oliver family near Devils Bridge in Northern Cardiganshire. > Two of the sons were ministers - Rev. Abraham Oliver who was at Bethlehem > Chapel in Llanddewi Brefi and David Oliver who was at Twrgwym near > Rhydylewis. My great Uncle Thomas Lloyd worked for Abraham Oliver and my > great grandfather helped David Oliver build a chapel near Aberbanc. I > came to the conclusion that Oliver was a patronymic name rather than being > French, but its possible. There are a lot of "strange" names in > Cardiganshire such as Ajax, Felix, Mathias, Simon, Anthony, Andrew, > Oliver, etc. As for a French connection, there were Flemings in PEM in > the 12th centruy and there was a Dutch community near Llandovery which is > where I believe my Ajax family originally came from. My father, who aws > Welsh-born always said that Mathias was a Welsh name. Some of these names > disappear after a generation because they are patronymic. > > Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attached Message > > > > > > > > From: > > > yvonne evans <a.y.evans@homecall.co.uk> > > > > > > > To: > > > DYFED@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Subject: > > > [Dyfed] French in South West Wales > > > > > > > Date: > > > Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:34:52 +0100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Listers, > This is a long shot! I have heard tales of French people in small numbers > inhibitating the Cardigan area(Ferwig area) in 1700's.Apparently there was > a > farm in that area with a French name. I have ancestors by surname Oliver > originating from North Pembs and also ancestors with surname Peregrine > from > North Pembrokeshire including the Llandysilio area. My grandparents used > to tell > me we had continental connections going back to > 18th century, but I have been unable to trace any! I am just wondering > about a > Hugenot connection fleeing from persecution in France. Has anyone any > ideas ? It > would be very much appreciated. > Yvonne Evans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attached Message > > > > > > > > From: > > > Jennifer Cairns <jenmathias@gmail.com> > > > > > > > To: > > > DYFED@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Subject: > > > Re: [Dyfed] French in South West Wales > > > > > > > Date: > > > Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:13:50 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Yvonne > > I know of Fleming settlement in Pembs but not Huguenots (although my > father > surname Mathias, claimed he was of Huguenot descent when in poetic mood, > but I > have never found any trace !) - but perhaps individuals fled from France > and > settled here. Possibly your ancestors could have been Flemings rather > than > Huguenots. > > The Huguenot Society link is here > http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/ > and their family history link is here > http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/family.html > > Journal: Huguenot Families is a half yearly publication of the Huguenot > Society > which deals specifically with genealogy and family history - this has now > ceased > publication - but available on CD rom. > List of Contents of the journals is here:- [with lists of family names] > http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/uploads/docs/HuguenotFamilies_Contents.pdf > > Hope this is helpful > > Jen > > --- On Fri, 16/10/09, yvonne evans <a.y.evans@homecall.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Brian and Listers, Did you know the Mendus family were at Dinas Pembs in 1740's? I have a record of christening of two young Mendus children in 1747 who seem to be orphans and the witness and guardian was Vincent Oliver Church Warden of Dinas who was linked by family to my Oliver ancestors of Dinas.I do not know which of my blood relatives he was - still working it out! There was also another guardian and witness but I cannot find my notes on him. No Mendus relatives were mentioned. Regards Yvonne

Dear Roy, For some unknown reason your message turned up in the Spam Mail on my computer.....I wonder if other Listers did not see your request. My suggestion to you would be to purchase Llawhaden Land Tax records from Pemb. Records Office at Haverfordwest and track the ownership and the various properties that way. These cover from 1786 to 1831 and show proprietor's name and tenant. VAYNOR Llawhaden.......quite a bit written about it in The Francis Jones Historic Pemb. Homes & Their Families (Extended edition). Extracts: "There are two houses of similar name in the parish, Vaynor and Great Vaynor, Originally known as Faynor Fawr and Fach they are marked on Colby's Map of 1831. The records of these two houses have become involved and are difficult to interpret with certainty. In early Wales the word maenor (faenor) included an area, not unlike the manor established by the Normans. The maenor also included a homestead within a stone-walled enclosure. Known thus as The Vaynor in the Barony of Llawhaden, which still includes a number of farms comprising a considerable area, it has over a thousand years of historical tradition". ........."After the death of William Skyrme in 1787 the mansion house and lands of Vaynor were put up for sale. The sale particulars state that the tenant was Mr. Thomas James, who had a lease for life of Thomas James aged 39, his wife aged 35 and his daughter aged 13 years; the freehold was offered of 'All that capital Messuagem or dwelling house and lands with the barns, stables, outhouses, building, gardens, orchards and water corn grist mill, thereunto adjoining and belonging, called and known by the names of Vaynor and Pontshane Mill. In the Remarks it states: The timber on this farm is worth 150 pounds. The Landlord covenants to keep the roof of the mansion house in repair, and to furnish the tenant with 60 barrels of Culm yearly or 36 s. in Lieu. The tenant allowed Timber growing on the premises for the use of the farm. About fifteen Bishop's acres of Church land lies intermixed with this land for which 4 pounds ten shillings is paid to the Bishop of St. David's. A valuable limestone quarry on this lot". ...My personal comments. Tenant called MR. Thomas James...therefore he was considered "somebody". It appears he had a three lives lease of the mansion house and whole estate....the lives being himself, his wife and his daughter. That does not mean to say he did not have other children...probably decided on the healthiest one, as the lease would hold good as long as the longest surivivor lived. Did he marry well, did he have brothers not as well off as he was?? Was an heir favoured and other children not so well provided for? There is a marriage which took place at Wiston between a Thomas James and Frances Meredith in 1780...they may be the couple in question. (I have the Dungleddy Hundred pre-1813 marriages index ...this area includes Wiston and Llawhaden, if you need any lookups). 900 pounds was a large sum of money.......have seen other admins. for a few hundred........I'm not sure of the ins and outs but it seems a couple of interested parties went guarantor to the Church when there was an administration involved. I presume they got their money back when it was all settled satisfactorily, perhaps the church extracted a fee, but I am sure someone knows more than I do on the subject. VAYNOR (GREAT) LLAWHADEN ...A small agreeable residence and seems to comprise two houses, the older at the rear. 1786 Land Tax shows Mr. Leach owner with John Furlong tenant. The house also known as East Vaynor or Faynor Fawr. There was also a Little Vaynor owned by Lady Keith. Great Vaynor....In Tithe Map of 1843 Abraham Leach is owner, Thomas George Gonne occupier. Hope this gives you some clues or avenues to follow. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia.

Just thought I'd share with listers a little success story. I have been researching my North Pembs ancestors for many years. One family in particular have owned a property in Dinas for several generations - its' still in the family now. Yesterday there was an enquiry on the list about the above property .... I emailed the list and the enquirer. Turns out that my family didnt all stay in Pembrokeshire after all and now I have found a VERY distant cousin in Australia. Felt it was worth sharing that there's always a silver lining and that family trees are 1. never simple 2. always surprising. Thank you to all who have helped me in the past with my research. Melanie - researching several names in North Pembs especially around the Fishguard/Dinas/Manorowen areas CORNCOK, EVANS, JAMES, MORRIS, OWEN, THOMAS (main surnames) _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with your friends through Messenger on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/