Good Afternoon Listers, My great grandfather Stephen Lewis was born in Fishguard 1st qtr 1846, later became a seaman/seafarer, married Mary Davies d/o Benjamin Davis who was a Sea Master according to Welsh Mariners site. All good so far. I am attempting to find out how he arrived in Australia, Mary his wife and two children Martha & Benjamin are listed as passengers on the "Cephalonia" which arrived in Port Phillip Bay Melbourne, but no sign of Stephen, his death certificate states that he had been in Australia 45 years when he passed away in 1924. Whereas Mary who died in 1909 shows she had been in Australia 26 years which helps confirm her arrival year. I have searched a number of crew lists thinking perhaps he had worked his way out here, but nothing concrete. I also made some contributions to the Welsh Mariners site some years back which needs some tweekin, but I was hoping I may be able to solve my problem first. Does any lister know of a site in the UK that would actually show crews or passengers embarking for Australia in the 1878/79/80 period. Perhaps I have missed something! Have a good day everyone from a very wet and soggy New South Wales - well actually east coast Australia more like. bye for now Coral Jennings

----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan Roberts" <[email protected]> To: "Lynne Ingalls" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett > No transcription service is perfect, but I would rather have the imperfect > than no at all, and only be able to access records by going to archive > centres. Provided that you always keep in mind the limitations of such an approach. AJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian P. Swann" <[email protected]> To: "'Megan Roberts'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] FindMyPast >> FindMyPast has already produced what I think is my wife's >> g-g-g-grandfather, Lewis Morgan, son of John Rowland Evan Morgan, being >> baptised at Radyr near Cardiff on 16 June 1799. I had been looking for >> him occasionally around Llantwit Vardre, which is up nearer Pontypridd > > Is this likely to be a patronymic-type list of Christian names? Perhaps - but unless you can find some additional evidence, I'd say you need to keep an open mind about both possibilities. Don't restrict yourself to Internet sources - there are plenty of other areas which should be explored. AJ

Thanks Megan Of course I will dig around FMP to try and sort this – but it will take longer than I have right now. Thanks for your confirmation anyway regarding patronymics.. Brian From: Megan Roberts [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 06 March 2012 09:21 To: Brian P. Swann; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] FindMyPast Brian My guess would be that if you looking are around 1800 that you could well be hitting patronymic names. I found an example of this on a wedding certificate for a marriage in 1837. The husband's name is John Griffith and his father is Griffith Williams. GRO included a note to say that they had double checked the registers to make sure that the information that they held was correct. As an aside by the end of the 1800s the family appears to have added a "s" to their surname to become Griffiths. Its just another complication! Megan From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Megan Roberts' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 23:41 Subject: RE: [Dyfed] FindMyPast Thanks for this post, Megan. I have been too busy to do much with FindMyPast - and I have specific interests in Llanboidy, Llanstadwell, Carmarthen and Llansadwrnen - so it is useful to know these are missing. And although it is off-county, FindMyPast has already produced what I think is my wife's g-g-g-grandfather, Lewis Morgan, son of John Rowland Evan Morgan, being baptised at Radyr near Cardiff on 16 June 1799. I had been looking for him occasionally around Llantwit Vardre, which is up nearer Pontypridd. Is this likely to be a patronymic-type list of Christian names? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Megan Roberts Sent: 05 March 2012 10:26 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Lynne Ingalls' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Always very possible he jumped ship. I have a ship which arrived in Melbourne in 1862 - and one-third of the crew jumped ship and headed off to the goldrush at Ballarrat. Searching Crew Lists is notoriously difficult. The National Archives has a 10% sample, I think with years ending in 5. The National Maritime Museum has a 10% annual sample - but in years when the TNA took a sample the TNA claim seems to over-ride the NMM claim. And then the rest are in Newfoundland, although there are some in local record offices too. They are indexed by ship, but not by person. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of cj Sent: 06 March 2012 05:08 To: DYFED Subject: [Dyfed] Passenger/Crew Lists 1879 Stephen Lewis Good Afternoon Listers, My great grandfather Stephen Lewis was born in Fishguard 1st qtr 1846, later became a seaman/seafarer, married Mary Davies d/o Benjamin Davis who was a Sea Master according to Welsh Mariners site. All good so far. I am attempting to find out how he arrived in Australia, Mary his wife and two children Martha & Benjamin are listed as passengers on the "Cephalonia" which arrived in Port Phillip Bay Melbourne, but no sign of Stephen, his death certificate states that he had been in Australia 45 years when he passed away in 1924. Whereas Mary who died in 1909 shows she had been in Australia 26 years which helps confirm her arrival year. I have searched a number of crew lists thinking perhaps he had worked his way out here, but nothing concrete. I also made some contributions to the Welsh Mariners site some years back which needs some tweekin, but I was hoping I may be able to solve my problem first. Does any lister know of a site in the UK that would actually show crews or passengers embarking for Australia in the 1878/79/80 period. Perhaps I have missed something! Have a good day everyone from a very wet and soggy New South Wales - well actually east coast Australia more like. bye for now Coral Jennings ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lynne   From what I have seen FMP have the originals which can also be looked at.  You can point out to them transcription errors and they do respond in a set timeframe, but they only up load the changes periodically.  So it can appear when you back that they haven't made the changes.  Unlike Ancestry they don't show alternatives that people have suggested.   No transcription service is perfect, but I would rather have the imperfect than no at all, and only be able to access records by going to archive centres.   Megan ________________________________ From: Lynne Ingalls <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; Megan Roberts <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2012, 1:18 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett I suspect you’re right, Archwr.  I tried transcribing parish records from East Lothian (Scotland) for FreeReg.  It is not an easy task to read those records.  Hopefully, Findmypast has scanned the originals and will make them available to people in case of mistakes.  I found several on transcribed documents from TNA.  They, however, were able to go back in and fix them.  I’ve tried that with transcriptions mistakes I find on Ancestry, but they are not quite as responsive.  In time, we’ll sort it all out.  L.  From: yr achwr Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 5:20 PM To: Lynne Ingalls ; Megan Roberts ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Lynne, I suspect that the answer is in Megan's original post. Parish Records are the property of the Parish, and the Incumbent or Parochial Church Council have refused permission for the records to be included. I have not looked at Findmypast, and am not sure exactly what is available. Indexes, Transcripts, or Scans of the Original Records? WWHR contained various records of Baptisms, Marriages at Carmarthen, but from neccessity certainly as far as marriages are concerned, all the available information, which may or may not be relevant on an entry by entry basis. I have personally borrowed copy registers from the incumbents of several parishes and have had them photographed. It is normally easier to deal with the incumbent. The problem, is that there are many parishes with no incumbent, and therefore no single person to make a decision to lend you their copy registers. I suspect, that whatever is on line will have errors.  I may be wrong but understand Findmypast subcontracted the work to India. How an Indian with no local knowledge can correctly interpret names etc., is beyond me. Local Family History Societies, if they got their act together, could if they wanted provide the definitive source for Parish Record Entries. Achwr ======================================== >Message Received: Mar 05 2012, 11:18 PM >From: "Lynne Ingalls" >To: "Megan Roberts" , [email protected] >Cc: >Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett > >Thank you, Megan. It looks like quite a few have been left out for the Diocese of St. Davids. I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is listed as left out. Aren't those parish records available on-line already? I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if I might need both. Money, money, money. No one says this is an inexpensive habit. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Megan Roberts Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Brian   My guess would be that if you looking are around 1800 that you could well be hitting patronymic names.    I found an example of this on a wedding certificate for a marriage in 1837.  The husband's name is John Griffith and his father is Griffith Williams.  GRO included a note to say that they had double checked the registers to make sure that the information that they held was correct.  As an aside by the end of the 1800s the family appears to have added a "s" to their surname to become Griffiths.   Its just another complication!   Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Megan Roberts' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 23:41 Subject: RE: [Dyfed] FindMyPast Thanks for this post, Megan. I have been too busy to do much with FindMyPast - and I have specific interests in Llanboidy, Llanstadwell, Carmarthen and Llansadwrnen - so it is useful to know these are missing. And although it is off-county, FindMyPast has already produced what I think is my wife's g-g-g-grandfather, Lewis Morgan, son of John Rowland Evan Morgan, being baptised at Radyr near Cardiff on 16 June 1799.  I had been looking for him occasionally around Llantwit Vardre, which is up nearer Pontypridd. Is this likely to be a patronymic-type list of Christian names? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Megan Roberts Sent: 05 March 2012 10:26 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question.  In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Lynne Ingalls' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast,  assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746.  I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period.  Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was reading the posts about records at Find My Past and Ancestry.com and wondered if you were aware of the free records available now at FamilySearch? Here is the link: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=BRITISH_ISLES Shanna Jones

Hi Everyone, I made a silly mistake the other day and ordered a death certificate that is definately not one of mine, however she may be of interest to someone on the list. So, here are the details: Death April 2, 1964 at Sunnybank, Northfield Road, Narberth. Sarah Jane Williams. 67 years. Wife of Glanville Williams Labourer (Milk Factory). Carcinoma of stomach. Informant, Gwyn Williams occupier Sunnybank, Northfield Road. Bye for now, Sarah in sunny but very cold Northumberland.

Hi Achwr, I pay a full gold sub to ancestry as I can follow my overseas relations. However I have found useful info on Find my past not recorded on Ancestry, at least you can pay just a small amount with them to get the info you need. Having said that, it is a must to look at the original records as FMP had three entries in Llangnog PR [lead mining again] Montgomeryshire for Vipond in 1730/40 but when I looked at the Parish reg I found six. Its really annoying to think that some one has spent the time to research the records but not recorded all the information accurately. The same thing occurs with Ancestry where I have found info on PR in Radnorshire showing under Montgomeryshire. All the best, David Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of yr achwr Sent: 06 March 2012 02:57 To: REGINALD DAVIES; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. Hi all, In the past, I have subscribed to Ancestry, Find my Past, and Genes Reunited. My current subscription is due to end shortly, and I am wondering which of these sites, that other list members recommend. >From personal experience and perspective: Ancestry - there is too much information, and it is difficult to distill what is offered to manageable proportions, when dealing with common Welsh Surnames. Findmypast - Generally usefull, easier to navigate and find relevant information than Ancestry. Genes Reunited - Have found contacts, and shared information with others researching the same families. I have also managed to find Census Records for individuals that I failed to find on Ancestry or Findmypast. I was under the impression that Genes Reunited, and Findmypast were part of the same group, and in theory at least, the information provided for example Census Data the same. Why you can find an individual on one site, and knot the other, is therefore beyond my comprehension. Is it down to the search criteria on the individual sites? In the present Economic Climate one has to at least try to get "best value for money". Which would list members recommend? Findmypast, who Reg in his post credits with 4 Million Welsh Parish Registers on line, rather than the actual 4 Million Parish Register Entries sounds attractive. One does however wonder whether the 4 Million Parish Register Entries in fact refer to the total number of names recorded? A baptism would record the names of the child and both parents, and also the name of the officiating clerk. A total of four names four one entry. Marriage entries by the same token, would record the names of Bride and Groom, along with 2 witnesses, and the officiating clerk. Five names for one entry. The bulk of Church Register Records refer to the period from 1780 onwards, where the bulk of the population of Dyfed were nonconformists, who would not other than for marriage before the advent of civil registration appear in Parish Registers. My instinct tells me that the Claims by Findmypast should be divided by at least a factor of 4, which would reduce the total to 1 million names. If we then consider that the entries contain information from the NBI which would to a large extent duplicate entries from burial registers, we probably come to a more realistic total of 800K names. One in five of claimed entries. That is my interpretation. I would still be interested in List Members opinions, which of the listed options is most usefull. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 04 2012, 11:04 AM From: "REGINALD DAVIES" To: "[email protected]" Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. This is the publicity notice from Find my Past. 01 March 2012 We have just published almost 4 million Welsh parish registers on findmypast.co.uk This is the first time that the complete Welsh parish baptism, marriage and death records have been published online and is fantastic news for anyone with Welsh ancestors. The records cover Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Glamorganshire. Further details are as follows: * Baptisms: 1,418,921 records covering 1538-1911 * Marriages: 950,254 records covering 1539-1926 * Banns: 340,002 records covering 1701-1926 * Burials: 1,169,685 records covering 1539-2007 Coming soon are records for the following counties: Anglesey, Brecknockshire, Caernarvonshire, Merionethshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire and Radnorshire. hwyl Reg Davies www.welshmariners.org.uk ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012, 8:00 Subject: DYFED Digest, Vol 7, Issue 66 ----- Forwarded Message ----- Please delete any irrelevant notes when replying to this digest. Today's Topics: 1. Re: Library Access (Brian P. Swann) 2. Re: Library Access (Lynne Ingalls) The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Yes, Brian. Thank you. I was reading an article in Family History Monthly, May 2010 issue about marriage licenses being issued by the Bishops of the diocese. I'd hoped the allegations might be at Trinity St David's Library as they are not at the NLW or the Lambeth Palace Library. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Brian P. Swann Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 4:06 PM To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; 'Alison Bryan' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Dyfed] Library Access The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To contact the DYFED list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the DYFED mailing list, send an email to DYFE[email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, In the past, I have subscribed to Ancestry, Find my Past, and Genes Reunited. My current subscription is due to end shortly, and I am wondering which of these sites, that other list members recommend. >From personal experience and perspective: Ancestry - there is too much information, and it is difficult to distill what is offered to manageable proportions, when dealing with common Welsh Surnames. Findmypast - Generally usefull, easier to navigate and find relevant information than Ancestry. Genes Reunited - Have found contacts, and shared information with others researching the same families. I have also managed to find Census Records for individuals that I failed to find on Ancestry or Findmypast. I was under the impression that Genes Reunited, and Findmypast were part of the same group, and in theory at least, the information provided for example Census Data the same. Why you can find an individual on one site, and knot the other, is therefore beyond my comprehension. Is it down to the search criteria on the individual sites? In the present Economic Climate one has to at least try to get "best value for money". Which would list members recommend? Findmypast, who Reg in his post credits with 4 Million Welsh Parish Registers on line, rather than the actual 4 Million Parish Register Entries sounds attractive. One does however wonder whether the 4 Million Parish Register Entries in fact refer to the total number of names recorded? A baptism would record the names of the child and both parents, and also the name of the officiating clerk. A total of four names four one entry. Marriage entries by the same token, would record the names of Bride and Groom, along with 2 witnesses, and the officiating clerk. Five names for one entry. The bulk of Church Register Records refer to the period from 1780 onwards, where the bulk of the population of Dyfed were nonconformists, who would not other than for marriage before the advent of civil registration appear in Parish Registers. My instinct tells me that the Claims by Findmypast should be divided by at least a factor of 4, which would reduce the total to 1 million names. If we then consider that the entries contain information from the NBI which would to a large extent duplicate entries from burial registers, we probably come to a more realistic total of 800K names. One in five of claimed entries. That is my interpretation. I would still be interested in List Members opinions, which of the listed options is most usefull. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 04 2012, 11:04 AM From: "REGINALD DAVIES" To: "[email protected]" Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. This is the publicity notice from Find my Past. 01 March 2012 We have just published almost 4 million Welsh parish registers on findmypast.co.uk This is the first time that the complete Welsh parish baptism, marriage and death records have been published online and is fantastic news for anyone with Welsh ancestors. The records cover Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Glamorganshire. Further details are as follows: * Baptisms: 1,418,921 records covering 1538-1911 * Marriages: 950,254 records covering 1539-1926 * Banns: 340,002 records covering 1701-1926 * Burials: 1,169,685 records covering 1539-2007 Coming soon are records for the following counties: Anglesey, Brecknockshire, Caernarvonshire, Merionethshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire and Radnorshire. hwyl Reg Davies www.welshmariners.org.uk ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012, 8:00 Subject: DYFED Digest, Vol 7, Issue 66 ----- Forwarded Message ----- Please delete any irrelevant notes when replying to this digest. Today's Topics: 1. Re: Library Access (Brian P. Swann) 2. Re: Library Access (Lynne Ingalls) The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Yes, Brian. Thank you. I was reading an article in Family History Monthly, May 2010 issue about marriage licenses being issued by the Bishops of the diocese. I'd hoped the allegations might be at Trinity St David's Library as they are not at the NLW or the Lambeth Palace Library. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Brian P. Swann Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 4:06 PM To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; 'Alison Bryan' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Dyfed] Library Access The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To contact the DYFED list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the DYFED mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Dear All I have a different set of criteria to most folk on this subject. I need both Ancestry and FindMyPast. I do a lot of work with Americans - for a variety of reasons. Ancestry is just streets ahead there if you pick the International version. If you are doing DNA recruitment and testing - it does not matter where your candidates live providing you can get a trail back to the UK. I do a reasonable amount on London and Middlesex - again Ancestry is streets ahead there. Origins has the parish registers at the Westminster Archives going with them - so there is no one-stop shop for London/Middlesex registers. They had a £20 reduction in annual subscription if you signed up at WDYTYA - so I did. The Genealogist also has Quaker Records and the Registers of the Fleet Prison to 1754 - again a major source of London and Middlesex marriages. Ease and speed of downloading screen search data into a Spreadsheet I count as important, especially if you research moderately common surnames. Just be thankful if you mainly deal with West Wales. Just negotiate too - these days companies will try and get away with what their list price is - but hard bargaining and a no renewal strategy can sometimes work wonders. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of yr achwr Sent: 06 March 2012 02:57 To: REGINALD DAVIES; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. Hi all In the past, I have subscribed to Ancestry, Find my Past, and Genes Reunited. My current subscription is due to end shortly, and I am wondering which of these sites, that other list members recommend. >From personal experience and perspective: Ancestry - there is too much information, and it is difficult to distill what is offered to manageable proportions, when dealing with common Welsh Surnames. Findmypast - Generally usefull, easier to navigate and find relevant information than Ancestry. Genes Reunited - Have found contacts, and shared information with others researching the same families. I have also managed to find Census Records for individuals that I failed to find on Ancestry or Findmypast. I was under the impression that Genes Reunited, and Findmypast were part of the same group, and in theory at least, the information provided for example Census Data the same. Why you can find an individual on one site, and knot the other, is therefore beyond my comprehension. Is it down to the search criteria on the individual sites? In the present Economic Climate one has to at least try to get "best value for money". Which would list members recommend? Findmypast, who Reg in his post credits with 4 Million Welsh Parish Registers on line, rather than the actual 4 Million Parish Register Entries sounds attractive. One does however wonder whether the 4 Million Parish Register Entries in fact refer to the total number of names recorded? A baptism would record the names of the child and both parents, and also the name of the officiating clerk. A total of four names four one entry. Marriage entries by the same token, would record the names of Bride and Groom, along with 2 witnesses, and the officiating clerk. Five names for one entry. The bulk of Church Register Records refer to the period from 1780 onwards, where the bulk of the population of Dyfed were nonconformists, who would not other than for marriage before the advent of civil registration appear in Parish Registers. My instinct tells me that the Claims by Findmypast should be divided by at least a factor of 4, which would reduce the total to 1 million names. If we then consider that the entries contain information from the NBI which would to a large extent duplicate entries from burial registers, we probably come to a more realistic total of 800K names. One in five of claimed entries. That is my interpretation. I would still be interested in List Members opinions, which of the listed options is most usefull. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 04 2012, 11:04 AM From: "REGINALD DAVIES" To: "[email protected]" Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. This is the publicity notice from Find my Past. 01 March 2012 We have just published almost 4 million Welsh parish registers on findmypast.co.uk This is the first time that the complete Welsh parish baptism, marriage and death records have been published online and is fantastic news for anyone with Welsh ancestors. The records cover Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Glamorganshire. Further details are as follows: * Baptisms: 1,418,921 records covering 1538-1911 * Marriages: 950,254 records covering 1539-1926 * Banns: 340,002 records covering 1701-1926 * Burials: 1,169,685 records covering 1539-2007 Coming soon are records for the following counties: Anglesey, Brecknockshire, Caernarvonshire, Merionethshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire and Radnorshire. hwyl Reg Davies www.welshmariners.org.uk ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012, 8:00 Subject: DYFED Digest, Vol 7, Issue 66 ----- Forwarded Message ----- Please delete any irrelevant notes when replying to this digest. Today's Topics: 1. Re: Library Access (Brian P. Swann) 2. Re: Library Access (Lynne Ingalls) The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Yes, Brian. Thank you. I was reading an article in Family History Monthly, May 2010 issue about marriage licenses being issued by the Bishops of the diocese. I'd hoped the allegations might be at Trinity St David's Library as they are not at the NLW or the Lambeth Palace Library. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Brian P. Swann Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 4:06 PM To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; 'Alison Bryan' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Dyfed] Library Access The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ I assume you have tried this? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 To: Alison Bryan Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Thanks, Alison. I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to Ancestry.com. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bryan Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM To: Lynne Ingalls Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access Lynne This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription. (Library edition). http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ Alison On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > List Members - > > Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at > Lampeter? I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available > to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales. I'm > looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop > of St. David's in 1812. I thought it might have been sent to the > University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. > http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To contact the DYFED list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the DYFED mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The FMP records are transcripts of the original registers - and you can always view the original register pages to check for transcription errors. Ancestry do allow you to make posts against their indexes - whereas I don't think that facility exists at FMP. Normally entries in India get double keyed - and an adjudication made if there is a mis-match between the two keyed versions. This is not a bad way of QC checking a transcription. FMP could always attempt to bridge this gap via the Bishops transcripts at the NLW. They do start quite late, of course, in 1799 for the counties I am familiar with. I also find FMP data appreciably easier to download into Excel Spreadsheets. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of yr achwr Sent: 06 March 2012 00:20 To: Lynne Ingalls; Megan Roberts; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Lynne I suspect that the answer is in Megan's original post. Parish Records are the property of the Parish, and the Incumbent or Parochial Church Council have refused permission for the records to be included. I have not looked at Findmypast, and am not sure exactly what is available. Indexes, Transcripts, or Scans of the Original Records? WWHR contained various records of Baptisms, Marriages at Carmarthen, but from neccessity certainly as far as marriages are concerned, all the available information, which may or may not be relevant on an entry by entry basis. I have personally borrowed copy registers from the incumbents of several parishes and have had them photographed. It is normally easier to deal with the incumbent. The problem, is that there are many parishes with no incumbent, and therefore no single person to make a decision to lend you their copy registers. I suspect, that whatever is on line will have errors. I may be wrong but understand Findmypast subcontracted the work to India. How an Indian with no local knowledge can correctly interpret names etc., is beyond me. Local Family History Societies, if they got their act together, could if they wanted provide the definitive source for Parish Record Entries. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 05 2012, 11:18 PM From: "Lynne Ingalls" To: "Megan Roberts" , [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Thank you, Megan. It looks like quite a few have been left out for the Diocese of St. Davids. I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is listed as left out. Aren't those parish records available on-line already? I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if I might need both. Money, money, money. No one says this is an inexpensive habit. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Megan Roberts Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Sar! on, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Have! rfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line! for thi s time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyf! ed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lynne, I suspect that the answer is in Megan's original post. Parish Records are the property of the Parish, and the Incumbent or Parochial Church Council have refused permission for the records to be included. I have not looked at Findmypast, and am not sure exactly what is available. Indexes, Transcripts, or Scans of the Original Records? WWHR contained various records of Baptisms, Marriages at Carmarthen, but from neccessity certainly as far as marriages are concerned, all the available information, which may or may not be relevant on an entry by entry basis. I have personally borrowed copy registers from the incumbents of several parishes and have had them photographed. It is normally easier to deal with the incumbent. The problem, is that there are many parishes with no incumbent, and therefore no single person to make a decision to lend you their copy registers. I suspect, that whatever is on line will have errors. I may be wrong but understand Findmypast subcontracted the work to India. How an Indian with no local knowledge can correctly interpret names etc., is beyond me. Local Family History Societies, if they got their act together, could if they wanted provide the definitive source for Parish Record Entries. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 05 2012, 11:18 PM From: "Lynne Ingalls" To: "Megan Roberts" , [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Thank you, Megan. It looks like quite a few have been left out for the Diocese of St. Davids. I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is listed as left out. Aren't those parish records available on-line already? I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if I might need both. Money, money, money. No one says this is an inexpensive habit. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Megan Roberts Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Thanks for this post, Megan. I have been too busy to do much with FindMyPast - and I have specific interests in Llanboidy, Llanstadwell, Carmarthen and Llansadwrnen - so it is useful to know these are missing. And although it is off-county, FindMyPast has already produced what I think is my wife's g-g-g-grandfather, Lewis Morgan, son of John Rowland Evan Morgan, being baptised at Radyr near Cardiff on 16 June 1799. I had been looking for him occasionally around Llantwit Vardre, which is up nearer Pontypridd. Is this likely to be a patronymic-type list of Christian names? Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Megan Roberts Sent: 05 March 2012 10:26 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Lynne Ingalls' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I love Ancestry, my Welsh names are not that common, not when combined with Glamorgan anyway. And the Davises who are the reason I am on this list are just plain awful <G> But I do well with the census and records and these days their matching records engine is working mostly very well. At least in later years not so much until after the 1870/71 census. For me Ancestry gives the narrowest, targeted search (unless you use the new search and that is like throwing rice out of a plane, awful). Familysearch gives one of the best searches when you have Davis or Davies and Ponting and Panting, and then you can go to your image provider of choice and force them to give over the image <G>. Being American I also need at least occasionally Fold3 (used to be Footnote) I was over the moon at the idea of my 4Xggfathers baptism with image, only to be cast down the image was for 1904 not 1804! <G> but so goes the hunt. Eliz On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:56 PM, yr achwr <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > In the past, I have subscribed to Ancestry, Find my Past, and Genes Reunited. > My current subscription is due to end shortly, and I am wondering which of these sites, that other list members recommend. > >From personal experience and perspective: > Ancestry - there is too much information, and it is difficult to distill what is offered to manageable proportions, when dealing with common Welsh Surnames. > Findmypast - Generally usefull, easier to navigate and find relevant information than Ancestry. > Genes Reunited - Have found contacts, and shared information with others researching the same families. I have also managed to find Census Records for individuals that I failed to find on Ancestry or Findmypast. I was under the impression that Genes Reunited, and Findmypast were part of the same group, and in theory at least, the information provided for example Census Data the same. Why you can find an individual on one site, and knot the other, is therefore beyond my comprehension. > Is it down to the search criteria on the individual sites? > In the present Economic Climate one has to at least try to get "best value for money". > Which would list members recommend? > Findmypast, who Reg in his post credits with 4 Million Welsh Parish Registers on line, rather than the actual 4 Million Parish Register Entries sounds attractive. > One does however wonder whether the 4 Million Parish Register Entries in fact refer to the total number of names recorded? > A baptism would record the names of the child and both parents, and also the name of the officiating clerk. A total of four names four one entry. > Marriage entries by the same token, would record the names of Bride and Groom, along with 2 witnesses, and the officiating clerk. Five names for one entry. > The bulk of Church Register Records refer to the period from 1780 onwards, where the bulk of the population of Dyfed were nonconformists, who would not other than for marriage before the advent of civil registration appear in Parish Registers. > > My instinct tells me that the Claims by Findmypast should be divided by at least a factor of 4, which would reduce the total to 1 million names. > If we then consider that the entries  contain information from the NBI which would to a large extent duplicate entries from burial registers, we probably come to a more realistic total of 800K names. One in five of claimed entries. > That is my interpretation. > I would still be interested in List Members opinions, which of the listed options is most usefull. > > Achwr > ======================================== > Message Received: Mar 04 2012, 11:04 AM > From: "REGINALD DAVIES" > To: "[email protected]" > Cc: > Subject: [Dyfed] Welsh parish registers on Find my past. > > This is the publicity notice from Find my Past. > > 01 March 2012 > We have just published almost 4 million Welsh parish registers on findmypast.co.uk > > This is the first time that the complete Welsh parish baptism, marriage and death records have been published online and is fantastic news for anyone with Welsh ancestors. > The records cover Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Glamorganshire. Further details are as follows: > * Baptisms: 1,418,921 records covering 1538-1911 > * Marriages: 950,254 records covering 1539-1926 > * Banns: 340,002 records covering 1701-1926 > * Burials: 1,169,685 records covering 1539-2007 > Coming soon are records for the following counties: Anglesey, Brecknockshire, Caernarvonshire, Merionethshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire and Radnorshire. > > hwyl > > Reg Davies > www.welshmariners.org.uk > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012, 8:00 > Subject: DYFED Digest, Vol 7, Issue 66 > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > > > Please delete any irrelevant notes when replying to this digest. > Today's Topics: > >  1. Re: Library Access (Brian P. Swann) >  2. Re: Library Access (Lynne Ingalls) > The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. > > http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ > > I assume you have tried this? > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls > Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 > To: Alison Bryan > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access > > Thanks, Alison.  I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas > Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to > Ancestry.com. > > Lynne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alison Bryan > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM > To: Lynne Ingalls > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access > > Lynne > > This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription.  (Library edition). > > http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ > > Alison > > > > On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: >> List Members - >> >> Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at >> Lampeter?  I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available >> to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales.  I'm >> looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop >> of St. David's in 1812.  I thought it might have been sent to the >> University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. >> http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ >> >> Lynne in Tucson >> >> ================================ >> Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > Yes, Brian.  Thank you.  I was reading an article in Family History Monthly, May 2010 issue about marriage licenses being issued by the Bishops of the diocese.  I'd hoped the allegations might be at Trinity St David's Library as they are not at the NLW or the Lambeth Palace Library. > Lynne > > -----Original Message----- From: Brian P. Swann > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 4:06 PM > To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; 'Alison Bryan' > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [Dyfed] Library Access > > The marriage licence bonds are online for St. Davids Archdeaconary pre-1838. > > http://isys.llgc.org.uk/ > > I assume you have tried this? > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls > Sent: 03 March 2012 20:56 > To: Alison Bryan > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access > > Thanks, Alison.  I'd hoped it would be a way to find the papers of Thomas > Burgess at the Trinity St David Library rather than sending me back to > Ancestry.com. > > Lynne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alison Bryan > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:34 PM > To: Lynne Ingalls > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Library Access > > Lynne > > This will just a commercial Ancestry subscription.  (Library edition). > > http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ > > Alison > > > > On 3 March 2012 20:29, Lynne Ingalls wrote: >> List Members - >> >> Does anyone have access to the University of Wales Library at >> Lampeter?  I found they have some 4 billion ancestry records available >> to search on-line, but I don't have access to libraries in Wales.  I'm >> looking for a marriage license that may have been issued by the Bishop >> of St. David's in 1812.  I thought it might have been sent to the >> University by the Bishop (Thomas Burgess) when he left St. David's. >> http://www.trinitysaintdavid.ac.uk/en/lrc/onlineresources/e-resources/ >> >> Lynne in Tucson >> >> ================================ >> Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > To contact the DYFED list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the DYFED mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ACHWR > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear List, Are there any fluent Welsh speakers out there who would be willing to help me with this one? I have discovered a clip from a Welsh language history programme from 1984 on the BBC Cymru archive but, unfortunately, my schoolboy Welsh is not nearly good enough to understand it properly. It is an interview with the wonderfully flamboyant Rev. Towyn Jones about some of the more scandalous aspects of the history of Plas Llanina, an old manor house near New Quay, concerning the Longcroft family - my ancestors. I know roughly what he's saying but there are bound to be details that I'm not getting with my limited vocab. I can e-mail a link to the clip to anyone able to help. Thanks in advance, James   _________________________ James L. Phillips-Evans, LLB Greencourts Research

Oh so true <G> and we are lucky to have Ancestry and findmypast. Just parking twice at the Archives and the big Libraries will pay for subs to each <G> Add to that strange records are coming online long thought to be lost. Love it <G> Eliz On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Lynne Ingalls <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you, Megan.  It looks like quite a few have been left out for the > Diocese of St. Davids.  I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is > listed as left out.  Aren't those parish records available on-line already? > I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if > I might need both.  Money, money, money.  No one says this is an inexpensive > habit. > > Lynne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Megan Roberts > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett > > If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh > records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you > to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if > you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not > included through the choice of the Parish in question.  In the Diocese of St > Davids the list reads: > Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and > Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's > and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w > All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. > > The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be > available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have > eaten their records! > > Megan > > > ________________________________ > From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> > To: 'Lynne Ingalls' <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett > > You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, > assuming they survive. > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls > Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett > > List - > > I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married > at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746.  I cannot find any baptismal > records on-line for this time period.  Does anyone have access to these > parish records? > > Lynne in Tucson > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I suspect you’re right, Archwr. I tried transcribing parish records from East Lothian (Scotland) for FreeReg. It is not an easy task to read those records. Hopefully, Findmypast has scanned the originals and will make them available to people in case of mistakes. I found several on transcribed documents from TNA. They, however, were able to go back in and fix them. I’ve tried that with transcriptions mistakes I find on Ancestry, but they are not quite as responsive. In time, we’ll sort it all out. L. From: yr achwr Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 5:20 PM To: Lynne Ingalls ; Megan Roberts ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Lynne, I suspect that the answer is in Megan's original post. Parish Records are the property of the Parish, and the Incumbent or Parochial Church Council have refused permission for the records to be included. I have not looked at Findmypast, and am not sure exactly what is available. Indexes, Transcripts, or Scans of the Original Records? WWHR contained various records of Baptisms, Marriages at Carmarthen, but from neccessity certainly as far as marriages are concerned, all the available information, which may or may not be relevant on an entry by entry basis. I have personally borrowed copy registers from the incumbents of several parishes and have had them photographed. It is normally easier to deal with the incumbent. The problem, is that there are many parishes with no incumbent, and therefore no single person to make a decision to lend you their copy registers. I suspect, that whatever is on line will have errors. I may be wrong but understand Findmypast subcontracted the work to India. How an Indian with no local knowledge can correctly interpret names etc., is beyond me. Local Family History Societies, if they got their act together, could if they wanted provide the definitive source for Parish Record Entries. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 05 2012, 11:18 PM From: "Lynne Ingalls" To: "Megan Roberts" , [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett Thank you, Megan. It looks like quite a few have been left out for the Diocese of St. Davids. I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is listed as left out. Aren't those parish records available on-line already? I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if I might need both. Money, money, money. No one says this is an inexpensive habit. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Megan Roberts Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann To: 'Lynne Ingalls' ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Thank you, Megan. It looks like quite a few have been left out for the Diocese of St. Davids. I don't understand why St. Peter's of Carmarthen is listed as left out. Aren't those parish records available on-line already? I haven't subscribed to Findmypast yet as I have Ancesty, but it looks as if I might need both. Money, money, money. No one says this is an inexpensive habit. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Megan Roberts Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett If you look on Findmypast under news then in the story about the Welsh records click on the hyperlink on the National Library this then takes you to a page with more detail about the records and on the left hand side if you select the tab "parish registers" that tells you which ones will not included through the choice of the Parish in question. In the Diocese of St Davids the list reads: Llanboidy w Meidrim and Merthyr, Llanedi w Tycroes and Saron, Llandeilo and Maesteilo w Taliaris and Llandyfeisant, Llanstadwel and Neyland, St Peter's and St John's, Carmarthen, Laugharne w Llansadwrnen and Llandawke, Betws w All Saints and St Michael's, Ammanford. The same article also gives you some reasons as to why records might not be available, my favourite one being the cow in Anglesey that is said to have eaten their records! Megan ________________________________ From: Brian P. Swann <[email protected]> To: 'Lynne Ingalls' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, 5 March 2012, 0:41 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett You need to wait just a few weeks and they will be online at FindMyPast, assuming they survive. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: 04 March 2012 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Children of John Barnett List - I am looking for children of John Barnett and Mary Bennett who were married at St. Mary’s parish, Haverfordwest in 1746. I cannot find any baptismal records on-line for this time period. Does anyone have access to these parish records? Lynne in Tucson ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message