Hello again Anne   Here is another reference to Peregrine in Meline on the Genuki page, scroll to the bottom where it says Genealogy -   http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Meline/   "Grimes, Yvonne. PEREGRINE of Meline. Dyfed FHS journal,1996 The derivation of a working hypothesis to show that Daniel Michael and Daniel Peregrine were one and the same person, in the mid 18th century, the son of Michael John, alias Michael Peregrine".   Sandra ________________________________ From: Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 14:18 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames Gerry's comment made me look in the DFHS Cardiganshire marriages..  there is a   1830 27/01   John Peregrine married in Llanerchaeron (Parish of Dehewid) to Anne Jones   which doesn't appear to fit with the births of the children...   No Pergrins.   Jen From: Gerry Lewis <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 13:45 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames On 14/5/12 11:49, "yvonne evans" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic > names.  I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn > Pembrokekshire.  However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne > in any of Pembs parish records in  mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. > He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. > The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the > date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's.  I have found > the marriage.  However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living > in Llanycefn.  There is no  record of either of her parents having re-married. > However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps > thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her > marriage, as it  would cause confusion being bride and groom would be > "Peregrine" before the marriage. > I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish > records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. > Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from > being Christian name of father to a stabilized  different surname(within the > same family).  This period of time that I am interested in, is of course > quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would > no longer be in existence at that time. > All  the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine"  Also > for your information  Llanycefn is a small parish. > > Hope someone can help! > > > Yvonne Evans Hello Yvonne I can't help you regarding the use of patronymic surnames in the early - mid 19th century. Some clarification is required regarding the 1841 and 1851 censuses. My Dyfed FHS fiche of those censuses have, in the 1841: Llandisilio (West) John PERGRIN, 40 [- 44], mason, born in Pem Anne PERGRIN, 45 [- 49], not born in Pem David PERGRIN, 15 [- 19] , born in Pem Lettuce PERGRIN, 10(?), born in Pem and in the 1851: Llanycefn John PEREGRINE, 60, b. Llandisilio Daniel PEREGRINE, 24, b. Eglwyswrw Mary PEREGRINE, 22, b. Llandisilio Anne PEREGRINE, 8, b. Llandisilio Martha PEREGRINE, 2, b. Llanycefn Cezia PEREGRINE, 8mo., b. Llanycefn (Dan[ie]l. was a servant boy in Meline in 1841 [not with his family]). There were several PEREGRIN families in Eglwyswrw in 1841. If the John PERGRIN and PEREGRINE were the same person, then the implication is that Anne was possibly born in Carmarthenshire and that is where their marriage might have taken place (although I can't find one on the DFHS fiche of 1813 - 37 marriages in west Carmarthenshire). I have two great great grandparents who were first cousins with the same surname PERKINS marrying in Nolton in 1843. I suspect you will find it difficult to find out why Mary didn't use Peregrine at her marriage to Daniel. Gerry Lewis ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gerry's comment made me look in the DFHS Cardiganshire marriages..  there is a   1830 27/01   John Peregrine married in Llanerchaeron (Parish of Dehewid) to Anne Jones   which doesn't appear to fit with the births of the children...   No Pergrins.   Jen From: Gerry Lewis <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 13:45 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames On 14/5/12 11:49, "yvonne evans" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic > names.  I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn > Pembrokekshire.  However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne > in any of Pembs parish records in  mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. > He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. > The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the > date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's.  I have found > the marriage.  However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living > in Llanycefn.  There is no  record of either of her parents having re-married. > However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps > thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her > marriage, as it  would cause confusion being bride and groom would be > "Peregrine" before the marriage. > I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish > records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. > Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from > being Christian name of father to a stabilized  different surname(within the > same family).  This period of time that I am interested in, is of course > quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would > no longer be in existence at that time. > All  the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine"  Also > for your information  Llanycefn is a small parish. > > Hope someone can help! > > > Yvonne Evans Hello Yvonne I can't help you regarding the use of patronymic surnames in the early - mid 19th century. Some clarification is required regarding the 1841 and 1851 censuses. My Dyfed FHS fiche of those censuses have, in the 1841: Llandisilio (West) John PERGRIN, 40 [- 44], mason, born in Pem Anne PERGRIN, 45 [- 49], not born in Pem David PERGRIN, 15 [- 19] , born in Pem Lettuce PERGRIN, 10(?), born in Pem and in the 1851: Llanycefn John PEREGRINE, 60, b. Llandisilio Daniel PEREGRINE, 24, b. Eglwyswrw Mary PEREGRINE, 22, b. Llandisilio Anne PEREGRINE, 8, b. Llandisilio Martha PEREGRINE, 2, b. Llanycefn Cezia PEREGRINE, 8mo., b. Llanycefn (Dan[ie]l. was a servant boy in Meline in 1841 [not with his family]). There were several PEREGRIN families in Eglwyswrw in 1841. If the John PERGRIN and PEREGRINE were the same person, then the implication is that Anne was possibly born in Carmarthenshire and that is where their marriage might have taken place (although I can't find one on the DFHS fiche of 1813 - 37 marriages in west Carmarthenshire). I have two great great grandparents who were first cousins with the same surname PERKINS marrying in Nolton in 1843. I suspect you will find it difficult to find out why Mary didn't use Peregrine at her marriage to Daniel. Gerry Lewis ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 14/5/12 11:49, "yvonne evans" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic > names. I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn > Pembrokekshire. However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne > in any of Pembs parish records in mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. > He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. > The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the > date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's. I have found > the marriage. However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living > in Llanycefn. There is no record of either of her parents having re-married. > However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps > thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her > marriage, as it would cause confusion being bride and groom would be > "Peregrine" before the marriage. > I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish > records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. > Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from > being Christian name of father to a stabilized different surname(within the > same family). This period of time that I am interested in, is of course > quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would > no longer be in existence at that time. > All the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine" Also > for your information Llanycefn is a small parish. > > Hope someone can help! > > > Yvonne Evans Hello Yvonne I can't help you regarding the use of patronymic surnames in the early - mid 19th century. Some clarification is required regarding the 1841 and 1851 censuses. My Dyfed FHS fiche of those censuses have, in the 1841: Llandisilio (West) John PERGRIN, 40 [- 44], mason, born in Pem Anne PERGRIN, 45 [- 49], not born in Pem David PERGRIN, 15 [- 19] , born in Pem Lettuce PERGRIN, 10(?), born in Pem and in the 1851: Llanycefn John PEREGRINE, 60, b. Llandisilio Daniel PEREGRINE, 24, b. Eglwyswrw Mary PEREGRINE, 22, b. Llandisilio Anne PEREGRINE, 8, b. Llandisilio Martha PEREGRINE, 2, b. Llanycefn Cezia PEREGRINE, 8mo., b. Llanycefn (Dan[ie]l. was a servant boy in Meline in 1841 [not with his family]). There were several PEREGRIN families in Eglwyswrw in 1841. If the John PERGRIN and PEREGRINE were the same person, then the implication is that Anne was possibly born in Carmarthenshire and that is where their marriage might have taken place (although I can't find one on the DFHS fiche of 1813 - 37 marriages in west Carmarthenshire). I have two great great grandparents who were first cousins with the same surname PERKINS marrying in Nolton in 1843. I suspect you will find it difficult to find out why Mary didn't use Peregrine at her marriage to Daniel. Gerry Lewis

Hello Yvonne   There's a reference to a Daniel Peregrine of Meline in the index of journals on the Dyfed FHS website.  This article might give you some clues if you haven't already seen it.  Apologies if you have!   Regards Sandra   ________________________________ From: yvonne evans <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 11:49 Subject: [Dyfed] Patrynomic surnames Hi List, I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic names.  I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn Pembrokekshire.  However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne in any of Pembs parish records in  mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards.  The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's.  I have found the marriage.  However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living in Llanycefn.  There is no  record of either of her parents having re-married.  However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her marriage, as it  would cause confusion being bride and groom would be "Peregrine" before the marriage. I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn.  Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from  being Christian name of father to a stabilized  different surname(within the same family).  This period of time that I am interested in, is of course quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would no longer be in existence at that time. All  the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine"  Also for your information  Llanycefn is a small parish. Hope someone can help! Yvonne Evans ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic names. I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn Pembrokekshire. However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne in any of Pembs parish records in mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's. I have found the marriage. However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living in Llanycefn. There is no record of either of her parents having re-married. However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her marriage, as it would cause confusion being bride and groom would be "Peregrine" before the marriage. I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from being Christian name of father to a stabilized different surname(within the same family). This period of time that I am interested in, is of course quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would no longer be in existence at that time. All the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine" Also for your information Llanycefn is a small parish. Hope someone can help! Yvonne Evans

Hi PEM - Crundal Hall - Rubaxton. Could anyon start me in the right direction to find the ROCH family who were living in Crudal Hall on 1841 census. Thanks Sally Steel Australia

Hello list, Can somebody find my Benjamin Rees in the 1911 census? He was born in Llagennech 1881. Living with his parents in 1901 at 5 Dafen Row, Llanelli. Elwyn - netherlands.

He appears to be working in the Loughor Tinworks.   5 Fairwood Terrace Gowerton   REES, Benjamin Head Married M 29 1882 Wheeler In Tin Works Carmarthen Llangennech   REES, Elizabeth Louisa Wife Married 3 years F 31 1880 Hertfordshire Berkhampstead   REES, Gwilyn John Son M 2 1909 Glamorgan Gowerton   Registration District: Llanelly Sub District: Loughor Enumeration District: 1 Parish: Gowerton   RG number:  RG14 Piece:  32829 Reference:  RG14PN32829 RG78PN1874 RD596 SD1 ED1 SN189     Can somebody find my Benjamin Rees in the 1911 census? He was born in Llagennech 1881. Living with his parents in 1901 at 5 Dafen Row, Llanelli. Elwyn - netherlands.

If anyone is having trouble finding the marriage of a John EVANS, described as being of St Andrews, Glamorgan, to an Elizabeth around 1732, I may be able to help. I've found the gentleman in one of the parishes for which I am OPC. Elizabeth was not from that parish either. If you think this couple may be yours, please contact me *OFFLIST*. (also posted to the Glamorgan list) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

To all listers within reach of London Meeting 12th May 2012 at 2pm At our next meeting Huw Edwards will be talking on "London's Welsh Chapels". Huw has recently presented "The Story of Wales" for BBC1 Wales, and is currently researching a book on London's Welsh chapels. The meeting will be held at Borough Welsh Congregational Chapel, 90 Southwark Bridge Road, London SE1 0EX (Underground stations Borough, Southwark or London Bridge). For details and a map please see: [1]http://welshchapel.com/#/find-us/4533250281 Tea & coffee will be available after Huw's talk. We ask for a £3 donation each meeting towards expenses. Anyone with an interest in Welsh Family History is welcome to attend. The dates and topics for our remaining meetings in 2012 are: 8 September 2012 DNA and Welsh Family History Where Are We Now and Where Are We Going? by branch member Brian Picton Swann 3 November 2012 Witchcraft in Wales by Richard Suggett of Commisiwn Brenhinol Henebion Cymru; Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales. TRANSPORT To check whether Transport for London (tfl) has planned works which will affect your journey please see [2]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/livetravelnews/planned-works/calendar/default.aspx for more details. For more information about the London Branch visit our Website or find us on Facebook: [3]http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlslbfhs/ [4]https://www.facebook.com/lbwfhs Anna Brueton References 1. http://welshchapel.com/#/find-us/4533250281 2. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/livetravelnews/planned-works/calendar/default.aspx 3. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlslbfhs/ 4. https://www.facebook.com/lbwfhs%A0

This method is still in use in certain contexts such as a person's age e.g. pedwarugain oed (80), and in dates, e.g. yr unfed-ar hugain o Ionawr (31st January) Hugh At 13:56 03/05/2012, Gareth wrote: >Davies, D Stedman Rev. Welsh method of counting >Radnorshire Society Transactions vol. 15 1945 Welsh Journals Online >http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/listarticles/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id:1192569 > >Something I'd always wondered about..........

Hi, In case anyone is interested in it, there is a postcard of a house in Clarbeston Road, Pembrokeshire on e-bay. It doesn't give the name of the house, but it might belong to someone's family story??? Best wishes, Sarah.

Dear Gareth Thank you for finding this bit of information. It always had me puzzled and my mother, the only Welsh speaker in the household, could never explain it clearly. Although all my Welsh speaking relatives have now died out at least I now understand why they counted in such an odd way. It was all perfect logical and it was me that was twp all along! Kind regards Joy

Davies, D Stedman Rev. Welsh method of counting Radnorshire Society Transactions vol. 15 1945 Welsh Journals Online http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/listarticles/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id:1192569 Something I'd always wondered about.......... Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html

Another article of general interest perhaps Welsh Journals Online - Pews and kneelings Radnorshire Society Transactions vol. 15 1945 http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/listarticles/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id:1192569 "The above phrase occurs in various old Indentures (mainly of the eighteenth century)...........Such 'pews and kneelings' went with the rest of the property and referred to the seats in the parish church to which the owner of the house had an inalienable right" Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html

Hi List, Not surprising that there were only 10 people able to afford male servants mentioned below in Radnorshire [or who paid the tax!] as Radnorshire was the poorest County in Wales as the following poem suggests! Its a shame it does not give the names of the servants as well. Radnorshire, poor Radnorshire, Never a park and never a deer, And never a man of five hundred a year Except Sir William Fowler of Abbey Cwm-hir. All the best, David Thomas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gareth Sent: 29 April 2012 17:18 To: Dyfed Subject: [Dyfed] Genuki - Welsh Journals Online List of Persons who paid duty on male servants in 1780 Below is an extract from the Radnorshire Society Transactions, vol. 9 1939 on Welsh Journals Online http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/listarticles/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id :1192035 "An Act of Parliament pass in 1777 said that 21 shillings should be paid yearly for every male servant employed, such as footmen, coachmen, pastry-cooks, gamekeepers and so on. An MS volume in the PRO dated 1780 gives a long list for England and Wales estimated to consist of 24,750 persons employing 59,944 servants. The Radnorshire names are only 10 in number...................." I can't say I've ever come across this particular Act before and thought it might be of general interest Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

List of Persons who paid duty on male servants in 1780 Below is an extract from the Radnorshire Society Transactions, vol. 9 1939 on Welsh Journals Online http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/listarticles/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id:1192035 "An Act of Parliament pass in 1777 said that 21 shillings should be paid yearly for every male servant employed, such as footmen, coachmen, pastry-cooks, gamekeepers and so on. An MS volume in the PRO dated 1780 gives a long list for England and Wales estimated to consist of 24,750 persons employing 59,944 servants. The Radnorshire names are only 10 in number...................." I can't say I've ever come across this particular Act before and thought it might be of general interest Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html

Hello list, Who can find John Evans and his daugthers in 1851 census of Clydey, family living Plasymwsw. John Evans 49 in 1851 Ann Evans, his wife Rachel Evans ,dau 11 Mary Evans , dau 5 Elwyn - netherlands.

Hello Andy (& Jen) I think Mount Zion seems like the right one. And according to the Western Telegraph there was a funeral there this month so it is still in use. Hope this helps Pat In message <[email protected]>, Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> writes >Dear Andy, >  >Its not my particular area, but I have found these two, one of which may be the >one you seek. >  >Mount Zion Congregational Chapel, West Hook, Llangwm >some photos here: http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/11076/images/MOUNT+ZION+CONG >REGATIONAL+CHAPEL%2C+WEST+HOOK%3BSALEM/ >(Mount Zion Congregational Chapel was built in 1852 and restored in 1926. The >present chapel, dated 1852, is built in the Simple Round-Headed style with a >gable-entry plan) >  >Coflein also has mention of a "HOOK GOSPEL MISSION, WEST HOOK" as does Genuki. >No photos on Coflein, but here is a link >http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/11730/details/HOOK+GOSPEL+MISSION%2C+WEST+HOOK >/ >  >Jen >  >  > >From: Andy Philpin <[email protected]> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2012, 12:16 >Subject: [Dyfed] (Pembs) Hook Independent Chapel > > > > > >Dear All, I was just wondering if anybody has come across Hook Independent >Chapel in the course of their research? I have never heard of it before. All the >Best, Andy                         > >================================ >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message > >================================ >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message -- pat

Dear Andy From The Parish Churches and Nonconformist Chapels of Wales - by Bert J Rawlins Independent Chapel - Salem a. Cause began 1842; embodied 1842 b. Chapels 1842 c. Location Westhook, Llangwm Parish d. Branch of Bethel, Freystrop e. Periods of Growth 1857, 80 members f. Records available See Bethel Bethel, Freystrop - Records Available - baptisms 1813-1837 The National Archives, Kew or any Record Office holding the microfilm RG4/4074. Also online on *www.bmd*registers.co.uk Full record and page image available on credit system. If you can let me have the name and dateI will have a look for you Kind regards Joy