irene brandreth wrote: > Marriage certificate November 13th 1872 at Capel Cynon purchased in error. Willing to post to family or LHS in Capel Cynon area. > > Daniel JONES, full age,bachelor, farm servant of Gallt Man (father David JONES Schoolmaster) marries after banns > Mary DAVIES, full age, spinster of Pantbach (father Evan DAVIES farmer) > Both by mark > Witnesses David RICHARD and Thomas DAVIES > Officiating Minister J LLOYD-JONES MA Don't forget to add the details as a Postem to FreeBMD as well to help someone else who may not be a Rootsweb subscriber. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Marriage certificate November 13th 1872 at Capel Cynon purchased in error. Willing to post to family or LHS in Capel Cynon area. Daniel JONES, full age,bachelor, farm servant of Gallt Man (father David JONES Schoolmaster) marries after banns Mary DAVIES, full age, spinster of Pantbach (father Evan DAVIES farmer) Both by mark Witnesses David RICHARD and Thomas DAVIES Officiating Minister J LLOYD-JONES MA Irene

Dai   Thanks - I've had some replies which have given me that date of probate, and also a complete translation from Paul.   Megan ________________________________ From: Dai & Angela Bevan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 7:16 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Old wills - Latin Megan, I know from experience that my long forgotten O-level latin is insufficient.  Have you tried Google translate?  It claims to do latin.  If it's as bad as it's Welsh translation, you will get some laughs, but it should give you the gist of it.  It is accessible using the 'More' link on the menu bar. Dai On 23/05/2012 22:38, Megan Roberts wrote: > I have a will written in 1705 - Will of John Gambold, Mariner belonging to Her Majesty's Ship Cumberland.  It is a very brief will written on the basis that his profession had certain dangers.  He left everything to his wife Anne, who was then living in Dublin, “in the City of Ireland”.  Anne was named as his executrix, but the full probate details are written in Latin. >  > I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to try and give me a translation of the probate details - I am particularly interested in knowing when it was probated.  I can send (off-list) the relevant extract. >  > many thanks >  > Megan > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Megan, I know from experience that my long forgotten O-level latin is insufficient. Have you tried Google translate? It claims to do latin. If it's as bad as it's Welsh translation, you will get some laughs, but it should give you the gist of it. It is accessible using the 'More' link on the menu bar. Dai On 23/05/2012 22:38, Megan Roberts wrote: > I have a will written in 1705 - Will of John Gambold, Mariner belonging to Her Majesty's Ship Cumberland. It is a very brief will written on the basis that his profession had certain dangers. He left everything to his wife Anne, who was then living in Dublin, “in the City of Ireland”. Anne was named as his executrix, but the full probate details are written in Latin. > > I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to try and give me a translation of the probate details - I am particularly interested in knowing when it was probated. I can send (off-list) the relevant extract. > > many thanks > > Megan > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Megan, Such wills are very likely proved at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. As indeed was this one. These wills are held at The National Archives in Kew. Their index is online at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/wills.asp. Click "search" (embedded in the text under "Introduction") to pull up the search screen. Your John Gambold appears (as you say) and with a probate date of 11 August 1709. This is about as much as you get from the index, but useful if the probate date is difficult to decipher (particularly if it's in Latin and written in the formal hand of the period). Hope this helps. Simon Carter [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan Roberts" <[email protected]> To: "Dyfdd List" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: [Dyfed] Old wills - Latin >I have a will written in 1705 - Will of John Gambold, Mariner belonging to >Her Majesty's Ship Cumberland. It is a very brief will written on the basis >that his profession had certain dangers. He left everything to his wife >Anne, who was then living in Dublin, “in the City of Ireland”. Anne was >named as his executrix, but the full probate details are written in Latin. > > I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to try and give me a > translation of the probate details - I am particularly interested in > knowing when it was probated. I can send (off-list) the relevant extract. > > many thanks > > Megan > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

The other new record on Ancestry is a large collection of poll books and electoral registers. From what I can see the only one relevant to South West Wales is the poll book for the Carmarthenshire election of 1754. The book gives the names of the voters, the location of the freehold property which entitled them to vote and their place of residence. The 1722 Carmarthenshire poll book is already online at http://carmarthenshirehistorian.org/ Enter "pollbook" into the search box. Jonathan Pike -----Original Message----- From: Dai & Angela Bevan Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:02 AM To: dyfed Subject: [Dyfed] Ancestry Probate records Hi All, Ancestry now has probate indexes on line up to 1966. Dai ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a will written in 1705 - Will of John Gambold, Mariner belonging to Her Majesty's Ship Cumberland.  It is a very brief will written on the basis that his profession had certain dangers.  He left everything to his wife Anne, who was then living in Dublin, “in the City of Ireland”.  Anne was named as his executrix, but the full probate details are written in Latin.    I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to try and give me a translation of the probate details - I am particularly interested in knowing when it was probated.  I can send (off-list) the relevant extract.   many thanks   Megan

Absolutely Liz, but sometimes people only post a reference - and (especially Ancestry) its easier to use the Census Refs (Piece, Folio, Page) rather than fight through all the upcoming names.   Cheers Jen   From: Eliz Hanebury <[email protected]> To: Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> Cc: Dyfed Family History <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 21:27 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Searching Ancestry and Findmypast Censuses using References. I find it much easier to just go in from the main page, search the name I want, if I think they died in the UK I will use county of birth (if you use county you get no shipping records) and then just look over the results (always using old search, exact) Eliz On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Listers > > In case this info is useful ...  I suddenly found this evening that both Ancestry and Findmypast changed the mode of access since I last needed to use this search mode. > > To fill in census refs in ANCESTRY and FINDMYPAST > > (and goodness knows why they make it so difficult...) > > > ANCESTRY > > Go into Ancestry. > > Click SEARCH > > Click SEARCH ALL RECORDS > > Click on OLD SEARCH (top right of screen, under HELP] > > Click on UK CENSUS COLLECTION in the right hand column > > And at the bottom of the first dialogue box, near the orange coloured SEARCH button > LO! a line of the boxes for us to fill in the details. > > FINDMYPAST > > Searching Findmypast using Census refs has changed since I last used this... although they give a url on their help pages I couldn't find it on the various menus... It used to be on the Address search pages forms. > > http://www.findmypast.co.uk/referenceSearch.action > > Best wishes > > Jen > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Listers In case this info is useful ...  I suddenly found this evening that both Ancestry and Findmypast changed the mode of access since I last needed to use this search mode. To fill in census refs in ANCESTRY and FINDMYPAST   (and goodness knows why they make it so difficult...)   ANCESTRY   Go into Ancestry. Click SEARCH Click SEARCH ALL RECORDS Click on OLD SEARCH (top right of screen, under HELP] Click on UK CENSUS COLLECTION in the right hand column And at the bottom of the first dialogue box, near the orange coloured SEARCH button LO! a line of the boxes for us to fill in the details.   FINDMYPAST      Searching Findmypast using Census refs has changed since I last used this... although they give a url on their help pages I couldn't find it on the various menus... It used to be on the Address search pages forms. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/referenceSearch.action   Best wishes   Jen

Hi Sandra and List, I am uncertain but there may have been a book written several years ago. Have you tried the usual sources online where one could be available? I noticed the Dyfed FHS have the repositaries on Gelly chapel, if that is a help. Yvonne Evans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Reay" <[email protected]> To: "Dyfed List" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:50 PM Subject: [Dyfed] New question regarding Gelli Chapel? > Hello List, > > As the list is quiet at the moment then I will ask a question please! > > Does anyone know anything about the book being written on Gelli (Gelly) > Chapel near Llawhaden? > > Apparently, a book is being written on the chapel and its 150 year old > history. Has it been written ... or is it still being written? I would > just really like to find out. > > Any information would be much appreciated. I have a keen interest in the > chapel as my great great great grandfather, John Williams was instrumental > in it's creation and he was the first person to be buried in the > graveyard! > > Any news on this subject would be much appreciated! > > THANK YOU! > > Kind regards, Sarah in Northumberland. > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

I find it much easier to just go in from the main page, search the name I want, if I think they died in the UK I will use county of birth (if you use county you get no shipping records) and then just look over the results (always using old search, exact) Eliz On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Listers > > In case this info is useful ...  I suddenly found this evening that both Ancestry and Findmypast changed the mode of access since I last needed to use this search mode. > > To fill in census refs in ANCESTRY and FINDMYPAST > > (and goodness knows why they make it so difficult...) > > > ANCESTRY > > Go into Ancestry. > > Click SEARCH > > Click SEARCH ALL RECORDS > > Click on OLD SEARCH (top right of screen, under HELP] > > Click on UK CENSUS COLLECTION in the right hand column > > And at the bottom of the first dialogue box, near the orange coloured SEARCH button > LO! a line of the boxes for us to fill in the details. > > FINDMYPAST > > Searching Findmypast using Census refs has changed since I last used this... although they give a url on their help pages I couldn't find it on the various menus... It used to be on the Address search pages forms. > > http://www.findmypast.co.uk/referenceSearch.action > > Best wishes > > Jen > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Thanks everyone it now seems to be working! I'm very pleased, as I do like being part of this list!!! Thank you again. Bye for now. Kind Regards, Sarah.

Done - to your e-mail and to the list At 11:21 23/05/2012, Sarah Reay wrote: >Sorry to put this out but can a few of you (if you receive >this!?!?), e-mail me back please? > >I have sent out some messages / information and queries in the last >couple of months and I've not had a single response although I do >receive other people's listings. > >I've had some problems with my e-mail so it may just be that, but >still it's a little odd? > >Thanks in advance for your help. > >Fingers crossed! > >Thank you! > >Regards, Sarah Reay in Northumberland > >================================ >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry to put this out but can a few of you (if you receive this!?!?), e-mail me back please? I have sent out some messages / information and queries in the last couple of months and I've not had a single response although I do receive other people's listings. I've had some problems with my e-mail so it may just be that, but still it's a little odd? Thanks in advance for your help. Fingers crossed! Thank you! Regards, Sarah Reay in Northumberland

Sarah - I received the message. Lynne in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Reay Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:21 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Dyfed] Dyfed List - testing testing! Sorry to put this out but can a few of you (if you receive this!?!?), e-mail me back please? I have sent out some messages / information and queries in the last couple of months and I've not had a single response although I do receive other people's listings. I've had some problems with my e-mail so it may just be that, but still it's a little odd? Thanks in advance for your help. Fingers crossed! Thank you! Regards, Sarah Reay in Northumberland ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All, Ancestry now has probate indexes on line up to 1966. Dai

My thanks to Sandra and Gerry for their kind words.    Megan ________________________________ From: SANDRA DAVIES <[email protected]> To: Megan Roberts <[email protected]>; Dyfdd List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012, 18:23 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Hannah Couzens Hi Megan   Thanks for sharing this, I loved it.  An excellent account of how you solved a mystery!  Sandra    ________________________________ From: Megan Roberts <[email protected]> To: Dyfdd List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012, 9:50 Subject: [Dyfed] Hannah Couzens   A couple of months ago I asked the list to help find records for the family of my gt. grandmother, Mary Ann Couzens (surname can be spelt in many different ways) born 1868 in Johnston, and had some really useful help.  One of the “left-over” mysteries concerned her older sister Hannah born about 1864. In the 1871 census Hannah was living with her parents, and in the 1881 she was a dairymaid on a farm. After that she vanished.  I could not even find a birth record for her.  Now however, I have found her and thought that I would let you know how, as it might help others with similar quandries.   In the 1911 Census, their aunt Esther O'Connell was recorded as having a 19 year old niece called Ethel Maud Walters born in Mumbles living with her. So wanting to know who Ethel was and how she fitted into the tree, I looked for her in the 1901 census. There she was with her mother Anna Cooze and step-father Joseph Cooze living in Cardiff.   So now who was Anna Cooze?  I soon discovered that she had married as Anna Walters in 1900.  So now who was Anna Walters?  The 1901 census had other children from what must have been a first marriage living with her, and they were all born in Furzy Hill.  Using that information I back tracked to the 1891 census, discovering that her first husband was John Walters.   So then I looked for a marriage of John Walters to an Anna.  The only one that fitted was an Anna Maria Couzens, who had a birth record in 1864 in Haverfordwest, but did not appear in either the 1871 or 1881 census.  I had no idea who she was or how she was related to my family tree, so I ordered her birth certificate which arrived yesterday, and low and behold she was a sister to my gt grandmother Mary Ann.   I now conclude that Hannah must have been a mis-transcription of Anna - perhaps they were trying to sound posh, and sounding a non-existent H before her name. Megan 

Jen   I know myself that adoption was not legailised until the 1920s, but not being sure of the exact date I googled "when was adoption legalised in the UK" I found a site  which has the following "Child adoption had no legal status in Britain (including under the separate legal system of Scotland) until 1926, when the first Act was passed which regulated this in England and Wales. Until then, child adoption was an informal and generally secretive procedure which gave the adoptive parents no rights whatsoever: a biological parent could (and in some cases, did) appear at any time and demand custody of a child they had neither seen nor contributed to the care of for years at a time."   My grandfather (in North Wales) was orphaned by the time he was 6 or 7, and he was brought up by his grandmother.  However, his 2 younger siblings were "adopted" by 2 families.  They always kept in contact but I could not find his sister in the 1911 census or her marriage record.  I tried the census for her adoptive parents address (she lived in the same house all her life), and there she was they had changed her name from Roberts to Jones, and this was the name that she married under.  Conversely the younger brother was always Roberts rather than Williams.   All this shows is that there was no hard and fast rules and it does make the search very difficult.   Megan ________________________________ From: Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> To: Dyfed Family History <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012, 18:37 Subject: [Dyfed] Shame and Scandal in the Family... Dear List I have three missing person problems on the go at the moment - and would appreciate thoughts on the subject of hiding illegitimate births... Two are Cardiganshire, and one is Bristol.  Two definitely involve illegitimate births - in one case the mother might have been local (Cardi) minor gentry and in the second case (Bristol area) the father was of a gentry family (not known if the noble Lord, or his brother a clergyman). In the third case there is a possibility that there might have been some scandal which involved the (same) local Cardi minor gentry and a married man - exact details are not known - but no birth involved, or known of.  The missing man might of course have been sent to prison for some reason..... ....   with the two illegit.  births it has proved impossible to track down the registration/baptism of either of the two children involved. Although both children were taken abroad, one to Australia having been adopted (possibly by the brother [and his wife] of the putative father - who had earlier gone suddenly to Australia) - the second Glos/Bristol child was taken to the USA in the company of the mother who married rapidly there and ended up in Argentina. .... in the third case, cause of scandal unknown, the father of the family disappeared, not findable thereon-in in any census or record.. but it has been suggested that the new husband quickly acquired by the apparently deserted wife was actually the same chap using a different name - so might have been a prison related incident. My question is this We all know that Parish Registers faithfully record (or apparently faithfully record) illegitimate births .... but what scenario/template did gentry folk employ to hide their involvement in "scandals" of this sort.  Would children have been registered to any pattern of surname name choosing, and where would the girls have gone to give birth - family, or institute.  With adoptions dating to around 1910/11 is there any chance of finding adoption papers - and where?  Both the cases where I know of live births that then emigrated would have surely needed some form of ID to either leave or enter their countries of choice - but I am ignorant on this matter.   Perhaps there is no pattern - but maybe a Lister has similar experiences in their researches and can offer suggestions. Many thanks Jen ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear List I have three missing person problems on the go at the moment - and would appreciate thoughts on the subject of hiding illegitimate births... Two are Cardiganshire, and one is Bristol.  Two definitely involve illegitimate births - in one case the mother might have been local (Cardi) minor gentry and in the second case (Bristol area) the father was of a gentry family (not known if the noble Lord, or his brother a clergyman). In the third case there is a possibility that there might have been some scandal which involved the (same) local Cardi minor gentry and a married man - exact details are not known - but no birth involved, or known of.  The missing man might of course have been sent to prison for some reason..... ....   with the two illegit.  births it has proved impossible to track down the registration/baptism of either of the two children involved. Although both children were taken abroad, one to Australia having been adopted (possibly by the brother [and his wife] of the putative father - who had earlier gone suddenly to Australia) - the second Glos/Bristol child was taken to the USA in the company of the mother who married rapidly there and ended up in Argentina. .... in the third case, cause of scandal unknown, the father of the family disappeared, not findable thereon-in in any census or record.. but it has been suggested that the new husband quickly acquired by the apparently deserted wife was actually the same chap using a different name - so might have been a prison related incident. My question is this We all know that Parish Registers faithfully record (or apparently faithfully record) illegitimate births .... but what scenario/template did gentry folk employ to hide their involvement in "scandals" of this sort.  Would children have been registered to any pattern of surname name choosing, and where would the girls have gone to give birth - family, or institute.  With adoptions dating to around 1910/11 is there any chance of finding adoption papers - and where?  Both the cases where I know of live births that then emigrated would have surely needed some form of ID to either leave or enter their countries of choice - but I am ignorant on this matter.   Perhaps there is no pattern - but maybe a Lister has similar experiences in their researches and can offer suggestions. Many thanks Jen

Hi Megan   Thanks for sharing this, I loved it.  An excellent account of how you solved a mystery!    Sandra      ________________________________ From: Megan Roberts <[email protected]> To: Dyfdd List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012, 9:50 Subject: [Dyfed] Hannah Couzens   A couple of months ago I asked the list to help find records for the family of my gt. grandmother, Mary Ann Couzens (surname can be spelt in many different ways) born 1868 in Johnston, and had some really useful help.  One of the “left-over” mysteries concerned her older sister Hannah born about 1864. In the 1871 census Hannah was living with her parents, and in the 1881 she was a dairymaid on a farm. After that she vanished.  I could not even find a birth record for her.  Now however, I have found her and thought that I would let you know how, as it might help others with similar quandries.   In the 1911 Census, their aunt Esther O'Connell was recorded as having a 19 year old niece called Ethel Maud Walters born in Mumbles living with her. So wanting to know who Ethel was and how she fitted into the tree, I looked for her in the 1901 census. There she was with her mother Anna Cooze and step-father Joseph Cooze living in Cardiff.   So now who was Anna Cooze?  I soon discovered that she had married as Anna Walters in 1900.  So now who was Anna Walters?  The 1901 census had other children from what must have been a first marriage living with her, and they were all born in Furzy Hill.  Using that information I back tracked to the 1891 census, discovering that her first husband was John Walters.   So then I looked for a marriage of John Walters to an Anna.  The only one that fitted was an Anna Maria Couzens, who had a birth record in 1864 in Haverfordwest, but did not appear in either the 1871 or 1881 census.  I had no idea who she was or how she was related to my family tree, so I ordered her birth certificate which arrived yesterday, and low and behold she was a sister to my gt grandmother Mary Ann.   I now conclude that Hannah must have been a mis-transcription of Anna - perhaps they were trying to sound posh, and sounding a non-existent H before her name. Megan