The Mansel pedigree http://www.llgc.org.uk/drychdigidol/ace/ACE00002/32/zoom.html?lng=en and http://www.llgc.org.uk/drychdigidol/ace/ACE00003/238/zoom.html?lng=en is found within the work of Alcwyn Carni Evans which is online at The national Library of Wales, as is the Shewen pedigree http://www.llgc.org.uk/drychdigidol/ace/ACE00003/250/zoom.html?lng=en and further at http://www.llgc.org.uk/drychdigidol/ace/ACE00003/251/zoom.html?lng=en

Anna, Your comment about "Dame Anne Mansell" of Stradey, raises interesting possibilities. The last of the Mansell line of Stradey, Mary Anne Mansell, left the property to Thomas Lewis, Solicitor of Llandeilo, who I trace back to Danygraig, Ffoswion and Clunadda Llanllawddog, (I descend from the Lewis's of Clunadda) and have wondered whether there was a family connection. She had married Edward Richard William Shewen, who changed his name to Mansell. There were two properties at Stradey. Stradey Castle as it is now known, and Stradey Mansion. The following Deeds show that both Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and the Shewins were associated with Stradey. (Nevill Catalogue at NLW). 21. 1752, Oct. 24 1. Sir Edward Mansell of Trimsaran, co. Carm., bart, and Dame Mary, his wife 2. Chauncy Townsend of St Peter Le Poor, esq. LEASE of veins of coal and culm under Heolehene, Lloynhendy, Maeserdaven, Baradus, Parkymonith, Penevan, Tyrymorva, and Dufryn in Llanelly. 22. 1752, Oct. 24 1. Sir Edward Mansell of Trimsaran, bart 2. Chauncy Townsend of St Peter Le Poor, esq. LEASE of veins of coal and culm under Keven, Techon, Berwick, Baccass, Teer y Morva, Maes er daven, and Dufrin in Llanelly. 25. 1762, Aug. 2 1. Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel of Stradey, co. Carm., bart 1. Chauncy Townsend of Austin Fryers, London LEASE of veins of coal and culm in the hamlet of Berwick and p's Llanelly and Pembrey. 705. 1762, Aug. 2 1. Chauncy Townsend of Austin Fryers in the city of London, esq. 2. Daniel Shewen of Stradley, co. Carm., gent. ARTICLES OF AGREEMENT relating to payment for coal worked in Park y Crydd, or Kil y Vieg Vein, and Cwm Vein, p. Llanelly, and in Stradley Vein and Penyfigwn Vein, p's Llanelly and Pembrey. 1,100. [after 1767, July 17] ABSTRACT OF TITLE (1717 - 1767) of Edward William Richard Mansell, esq. ( late E. W. R. Skewen, esq.), and Mary Mansell, his wife, to the Mansell or Strady Estate in co. Carm. Mutilated. 39pp. (This might provide the pedigree for the Stradey Mansell's) Stradey Deeds are at Carmarthen Record Office, but not available, without the consent of David Mansell Lewis. I have been told that he will grant access to serious researchers. Another item on my to-do list, when I retire. ACHWR ======================================== Message Received: Sep 06 2013, 06:28 PM From: "Anna Brueton" <bruetons@anoeth.demon.co.uk> To: "Sir Arthur Edwyn Turner-Thomas" <arthur.turnerthomas@live.com>, dyfed@rootsweb.com, achwr@fsmail.net Cc: Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine  Marriage part 2 I am extremely grateful for all this information. I should perhaps have said that this is not my family; I am merely interested in marriage customs and the like. I note that a 'Dame Anne Mansell' of Strade was buried on 20 January 1763 aged 26 (Dyfed list posting Dec 2012) and wondered whether this might have been Woodford's daughter. This would be consistent with Anne's baptism in 1736, and Edward Vaughan Mansel's marriage to Mary Shewen later in 1763. Not sure why Ann was at Stradey though - Edward's seat was at Trimsaran. Anna ACHWR

Dai & all. Annie Mary LLoyd 1926 - 2012 Her Cardiganshire Roots were in Llanddewibrefi and surrounding parishes, and she was extremely knowledgeable about the families in this area. Her Carmarthenshire Roots, were in Llanfynydd and surrounding parishes, and this is my connection. She was my third cousin. I suspected that she might have passed away as she did respond to E-mails, although that was nothing new, as when she concentrated on something she ignored everything else. At times she could be a very prickly character, who did not suffer fools gladly. (An inherited family failing, which I am also "blessed" with. I learnt not to chase for a reply. She would respond in her own time. She was one of three children. David George Lloyd 1920 - 1939 John Jacob Lloyd 1922 - ? Annie Mary Lloyd 1926 - 2012 John Jacob Lloyd has an only son David John Lloyd. I hope he is interested in family history, and will safeguard his Aunts Papers and Research for future Generations. R.I.P. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Sep 06 2013, 04:40 PM From: "Dai & Angela Bevan" <daibevan@clara.co.uk> To: "dyfed" <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Annie Lloyd - Dyfed List Listers, Many of you will be familiar with Annie Lloyd [email cardi2(at)aol.com]. Jen Mathias has brought to my attention that Annie sadly passed away just over a year ago. Two obituaries have been published, and are reproduced here. We will miss a valuable contributor to our little community. Thanks, Jen, for bringing it to my attention. Dai Bevan List Admin *NINNAU The North American Welsh Newspaper® Papur Bro Cymry Gogledd America™ Incorporating Y DRYCH™ Vol. 37, No. 5 September-October 2012* We regret to share with our readers that Annie Lloyd, our Genealogist, died on August 22, 2012. Anne started her column searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend. [There is also a very much longer obit in the Ninnau Pages] * BIFHS–USA [British Isles Family History Society – USA]* *http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bifhsusa/news/index.html <http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ebifhsusa/news/index.html>* *Bulletin – Sept/Oct 2012, Page 5 * * * *In Memoriam, Annie Lloyd,* *Gorffwys mewn hedd* *by Fran Smith* * * This is the last edition of “Annie’s Page.” Annie Lloyd died on 22 Aug 2012 after a few months of illness, but almost to the day of her death she was active with BIFHS, serving wherever needed. I will miss her very much. She was always supportive, funny, warm, always willing to lend an ear, and always willing to help. Annie stated adamantly that she was not a founding member of BIFHS, yet others, like charter member Evelyn Wallace, recall her participation in BIFHS from the beginning, so she must have joined soon after its inauguration. Evelyn recalls that Annie was always a hard worker. BIFHS historical documents show that Annie served in many capacities, from 1st Vice-President, Newsletter Editor, and Seminar Registrar, to work on numerous committees. But the records do not tell how much she filled in wherever there was a vacancy. Behind-the-scenes, when no one else could help out, she continued to arrange programs and edit the journal for extended periods on a pro tem basis. She headed the nominating committee, took meeting minutes, answered queries, and often covered for others when they were ill or out of town. Annie will be most remembered at BIFHS as our Welsh Study Group Leader. She taught Welsh research classes for BIFHS, LAFHL, and other organizations. Some members, like Dolores Andersen, credit Annie with encouraging them to become more active in the society. Annie’s genealogical reputation extends beyond BIFHS, as she also was a member of, and held key positions at, Los Angeles Westside Genealogical Society and Whittier Area Genealogical Society. Annie was born in Los Angeles. Her father, William Lloyd, worked for Metro-Goldwin-Mayer in the special effects department. Annie told me that one of the films he worked on was Gone With the Wind, for which he built the town of Atlanta—in miniature. William was an immigrant from Wales, as were several of her extended family members in Southern California. Whether Annie became interested in family history because of her Welsh background, or got interested in Wales after taking up genealogy, I never learned, but, as Lydia Jeffrey observed, her heart seemed to be in Wales. Evelyn recalls how her enthusiasm led to a trip to her father’s homeland, where she met cousins and other relatives. Annie was also active with the Welsh Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles, and divided the hours every fourth Sunday of the month between her church and BIFHS. Lydia remembers that sometimes Annie would say, "Don't worry about me if I don't respond. I'm working on my column for NINNAU, the Welsh newsletter." Arturo Roberts, the president and editor ofNINNAU & Y DRYCH, The North American Welsh Newspaper, counted Annie as a friend. He gave me permission to reprint the following memorial published in NINNAU: “Annie started her column Searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU, and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend.” Annie’s warmth, generosity, and devotion to genealogy will be missed by all of us. Beth McCarty, recalling Annie’s many years of walking with a cane, wrote us, “She will be more comfortable now and can soar.” As member Frank Hearne wrote when he heard about her passing, “God bless Annie.” ** ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Dear Anne [second try] You may not believe this... when I heard of Annie's death I went through the emails I had had from her, to see when the last one was before August 2012. This I found was one dated June 2012.  And in it is the answer to the question that you asked both the list and myself about the connections/relationship of "your"  John Jones of various places in Cardiganshire, and the Williams family of Pantysieri/Strata Florida/etc. Hope it is useful for you. You wrote to me off list thus...Many thanks for your reply to me.   Did you say in a previous email  that you were studying the tree of William Williams and his brother Nathaniel? if so do you happen to know if they had sisters? This is a long shot  but  am wondering if my ancestor  John Jones Coedmawr Llanddewi Brefi (gent) is the  son of a Williams  girl( if she exists!)   It is because John Jones had a brother Nathaniel Jones and also John Jones Coedmawr was related to Jones family of Bryn Helem LB. I have found this out recently. There was a James Jones in Brynhelem tree, and James Jones who signed will of William williams could also be related . My Jones of Coedmawr and his descendants  were Calvinistic Methodists. end of your message. And this is what Annie wrote to me just over a year ago. (My interest is in Nathaniel Williams, Abbey Farm, and his brother William] email is datedJune 1st 2012 Hi:  I mentioned last night that Nathaniel Williams hit a bell or something. My cousin who lives near Newcastle Emlyn is always sending me bit and pieces of history.  Her late mother was the family genealogist.  Here is what she sent me on Nathaniel Williams of Mynachlog Fawr, Pont, son of David Williams of Dolgoch. Nathaniel had a daughter named Gwen who married Rhys Davies of Pantyclwydau, who was a brother of William Davies of Hafdre. John Williams of Dolgoch, Llanddewi Brefi, had son David Williams of Dolgoch, High Sheriff of Cardiganshire in 1725, who in turn had a son named Nathaniel Williams of Mynachlog fawr, Pont.  It mentions the dau again and says that her son, John Davies changed his name to Jones.  He inherited Hafdre rom his Uncle William.  John Jones moved to nanfllwyddied in 1824.  He had lots of son who eventually populated the area and moved to the bigger farms around. One son was Thomas Jones, Hafdre and Bronrhelem.  He married Ann of Landre, Cwrtycadro and had 9 children including a dau Ann Jones.  Ann Jones married David Evans  of Panuwch and Llwyncadfor stud Farm, Brongest, who was the son of a schoolmaster in Llangeitho who was the son of a Doctor from Llandegley near Llandrindod. Hope this helps you. Annie Hope this helps... it looks as though your John Jones started life as John Davies Jen ________________________________ From: ANNE EVANS <anneyvonne.evans@btinternet.com> To: "DYFED@rootsweb.com" <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013, 17:27 Subject: [Dyfed] Annie Lloyd Hi List,     Annie helped me greatly with my Ceredigion tree.  She was extremely knowledgeable, which was really something considering she had been born in US. She used to rap me over the knuckles but I did not really mind!.       Yvonne Evans ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am extremely grateful for all this information. I should perhaps have said that this is not my family; I am merely interested in marriage customs and the like. I note that a 'Dame Anne Mansell' of Strade was buried on 20 January 1763 aged 26 (Dyfed list posting Dec 2012) and wondered whether this might have been Woodford's daughter. This would be consistent with Anne's baptism in 1736, and Edward Vaughan Mansel's marriage to Mary Shewen later in 1763. Not sure why Ann was at Stradey though - Edward's seat was at Trimsaran. Anna

Dear Anne You may not believe this... when I heard of Annie's death I went through the emails I had had from her, to see when the last one was before August 2012. This I found was one dated June 2012.  And in it is the answer to the question that you asked both the list and myself about the connections/relationship of "your"  John Jones of various places in Cardiganshire, and the Williams family of Pantysieri/Strata Florida/Sunny Hill etc etc etc. You wrote to me off list thus...Many thanks for your reply to me.   Did you say in a previous email  that you were studying the tree of William Williams and his brother Nathaniel? if so do you happen to know if they had sisters? This is a long shot  but  am wondering if my ancestor  John Jones Coedmawr Llanddewi Brefi (gent) is the  son of a Williams  girl( if she exists!)   It is because John Jones had a brother Nathaniel Jones and also John Jones Coedmawr was related to Jones family of Bryn Helem LB .   I have found this out recently. There was a James Jones in Brynhelem tree, and James Jones who signed will of William williams could also be related . My Jones of Coedmawr and his descendants  were Calvinistic Methodists. ________________________________ From: ANNE EVANS <anneyvonne.evans@btinternet.com> To: "DYFED@rootsweb.com" <DYFED@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013, 17:27 Subject: [Dyfed] Annie Lloyd Hi List,     Annie helped me greatly with my Ceredigion tree.  She was extremely knowledgeable, which was really something considering she had been born in US. She used to rap me over the knuckles but I did not really mind!.       Yvonne Evans ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html  [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Anna Please accept apologies, I am returning to genealogical sojourns after several months off, being busy on more pressing projects, and just beginning to warm the grey matter. You have to research the pedigree, the Mansels were at Stradney Castle from about 1649, so this is a confirmation if Anne is buried at Stradney, her marriage disputes have been buried with her. I am pleased you raised this subject because we can complete the pedigree and refute the entry in the Complete Baronetage and other official records, which omit Anne and dismiss her marriage. The following is background information which will be entered in the pedigree. Unfortunately the baptisms are not recorded with dates of birth, I would agree and state if the baptism is the year of birth that Anne 1736 might be too young to have married Edward Vaughan Mansel. But there may have been cause to create this position and subsequent legal actions, such as a promissory marriage agreement. Having taken a quick perusal of the documents available the wife of Woodford Rice is named as Catherine in an Administration document dated 1771 SD1771-34 http://hdl.handle.net/10107/408751 An unmarried nephew Woodford Rice is named in his Administration document dated 1789 his sister Charlotte is administrator. John Rice of Carmarthen died with will 1732 with children named John, David, Mary, Evan, Elizabeth, Lettice. There is no mention of Woodford. Yet the following deed found within the MORGAN RICHARDSON (2) collection provides sufficient information to substantiate pedigree 1692-3 1781, July 25-26 1. Thomas Lloyd of Cwmgloyne, co. Pembroke, esq.; 2. Trustees of the will of John Rice late of Carmarthen, esq., decd.; 3. Woodford Rice of Carmarthen, esq. (only brother and devisee of the said John Rice who was eldest son and heir of John Rice late of Coedstrea, esq., decd.) and Joice Rice of Rhydygaia, parish of Llanpimsaint (widow of the said John Rice of Coedstrea and Mother of the said Woodford); 4. Vaughan Horton of Lletterllestry, co. Carmarthen, esq.; 5. James Bowen of Cardigan, gent.; 6. Rev. David Davies Morgan of New North St., Holborn, clerk, and Christiana, his wife (niece and executrix of John Morgan late of Cardigan, esq., decd.); 7. Charles Davies of Fleet St. and Hector Davies of Ludgate Hill, city of London, gentlemen (sons of the said D.D Morgan by Mary, his former wife). LEASE AND RELEASE of the capital messuage called Pentre Mawr and other messuages, etc., in the parish of Llanpimsaint as specified in No. 1653. Consideration: £2,217 (including money due on mortgage, cf. No. 1661). Endorsements: (1) Revocation and new appointment to uses by 6, 1785. (2) Memorandum of a Recovery suffered on the lands, 1781. John Rice is named in the following deeds 1722, 1. Richard David of the parish of Abergwilly, co. Carms., gent., and David Davies of the same place, gent., his son and heir; 2. Thomas Bowen of the parish of Newchurch, co. Carms., and William Robert of the parish of Llantharog, co. Carms., gent.; 3. John Rice of Llanllowthog, co. Carms., gent.; 4. Evan Bowen of the same parish, gent. SETTLEMENT made before the marriage of the said David Davies and Ann Bowen of the parish of Abergwilly, spinster, daughter of the said Evan Bowen, in consideration of one hundred and twenty pounds as marriage-portion, touching the capital messuage and lands called Tyr ycha yn Rheynis and Keven Trefynys in the parishes of Abergwilly and Lanpymsaint; a parcel of land in the parish of Lanpymsaint called Kirrig Mawr and Kirrig bychan; a messuage and lands called Perllan Dewill alias Henllan Dewill with a close called Park Morvydd verch Ievan Phelip in the parish of Abergwilly. Draft. Incomplete. All the best. Sir Arthur > Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 18:28:24 +0100 > To: arthur.turnerthomas@live.com; dyfed@rootsweb.com; achwr@fsmail.net > From: bruetons@anoeth.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine Marriage part 2 > > I am extremely grateful for all this information. I should perhaps > have said that this is not my family; I am merely interested in > marriage customs and the like. > > I note that a 'Dame Anne Mansell' of Strade was buried on 20 January > 1763 aged 26 (Dyfed list posting Dec 2012) and wondered whether this > might have been Woodford's daughter. This would be consistent with > Anne's baptism in 1736, and Edward Vaughan Mansel's marriage to Mary > Shewen later in 1763. Not sure why Ann was at Stradey though - > Edward's seat was at Trimsaran. > > Anna > >

Hi List,     Annie helped me greatly with my Ceredigion tree.  She was extremely knowledgeable, which was really something considering she had been born in US. She used to rap me over the knuckles but I did not really mind!.       Yvonne Evans

Sad indeed Dai. I remember Annie very well from the list's early days. She was a regular contributor and quite a character- a sometimes fiery lady who was very proud of her Welsh heritage. Gareth Hicks Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html -----Original Message----- From: Dai & Angela Bevan Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 4:40 PM To: dyfed Subject: [Dyfed] Annie Lloyd - Dyfed List Listers, Many of you will be familiar with Annie Lloyd [email cardi2(at)aol.com]. Jen Mathias has brought to my attention that Annie sadly passed away just over a year ago. Two obituaries have been published, and are reproduced here. We will miss a valuable contributor to our little community. Thanks, Jen, for bringing it to my attention. Dai Bevan List Admin *NINNAU The North American Welsh Newspaper® Papur Bro Cymry Gogledd America™ Incorporating Y DRYCH™ Vol. 37, No. 5 September-October 2012* We regret to share with our readers that Annie Lloyd, our Genealogist, died on August 22, 2012. Anne started her column searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend. [There is also a very much longer obit in the Ninnau Pages] * BIFHS–USA [British Isles Family History Society – USA]* *http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bifhsusa/news/index.html <http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ebifhsusa/news/index.html>* *Bulletin – Sept/Oct 2012, Page 5 * * * *In Memoriam, Annie Lloyd,* *Gorffwys mewn hedd* *by Fran Smith* * * This is the last edition of “Annie’s Page.” Annie Lloyd died on 22 Aug 2012 after a few months of illness, but almost to the day of her death she was active with BIFHS, serving wherever needed. I will miss her very much. She was always supportive, funny, warm, always willing to lend an ear, and always willing to help. Annie stated adamantly that she was not a founding member of BIFHS, yet others, like charter member Evelyn Wallace, recall her participation in BIFHS from the beginning, so she must have joined soon after its inauguration. Evelyn recalls that Annie was always a hard worker. BIFHS historical documents show that Annie served in many capacities, from 1st Vice-President, Newsletter Editor, and Seminar Registrar, to work on numerous committees. But the records do not tell how much she filled in wherever there was a vacancy. Behind-the-scenes, when no one else could help out, she continued to arrange programs and edit the journal for extended periods on a pro tem basis. She headed the nominating committee, took meeting minutes, answered queries, and often covered for others when they were ill or out of town. Annie will be most remembered at BIFHS as our Welsh Study Group Leader. She taught Welsh research classes for BIFHS, LAFHL, and other organizations. Some members, like Dolores Andersen, credit Annie with encouraging them to become more active in the society. Annie’s genealogical reputation extends beyond BIFHS, as she also was a member of, and held key positions at, Los Angeles Westside Genealogical Society and Whittier Area Genealogical Society. Annie was born in Los Angeles. Her father, William Lloyd, worked for Metro-Goldwin-Mayer in the special effects department. Annie told me that one of the films he worked on was Gone With the Wind, for which he built the town of Atlanta—in miniature. William was an immigrant from Wales, as were several of her extended family members in Southern California. Whether Annie became interested in family history because of her Welsh background, or got interested in Wales after taking up genealogy, I never learned, but, as Lydia Jeffrey observed, her heart seemed to be in Wales. Evelyn recalls how her enthusiasm led to a trip to her father’s homeland, where she met cousins and other relatives. Annie was also active with the Welsh Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles, and divided the hours every fourth Sunday of the month between her church and BIFHS. Lydia remembers that sometimes Annie would say, "Don't worry about me if I don't respond. I'm working on my column for NINNAU, the Welsh newsletter." Arturo Roberts, the president and editor ofNINNAU & Y DRYCH, The North American Welsh Newspaper, counted Annie as a friend. He gave me permission to reprint the following memorial published in NINNAU: “Annie started her column Searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU, and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend.” Annie’s warmth, generosity, and devotion to genealogy will be missed by all of us. Beth McCarty, recalling Annie’s many years of walking with a cane, wrote us, “She will be more comfortable now and can soar.” As member Frank Hearne wrote when he heard about her passing, “God bless Annie.” ** ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dyfed, Forwarded for Sir Arthur Edwyn Turner-Thomas who is apparently having problems posting. [ I attempting to clarify whether this is Part 1 of the posting which has 'Part 2 in the Subject line.] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine Marriage Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:23:32 +0000 From: Sir Arthur Edwyn Turner-Thomas <arthur.turnerthomas@live.com> To: daibevan@clara.co.uk <daibevan@clara.co.uk> Dai Ignore the statement regarding Joyce Price was in all probably the wife of Woodford Rice senior. The below deed confirms relationships. 1692-3 1781, July 25-26 1. Thomas Lloyd of Cwmgloyne, co. Pembroke, esq.; 2. Trustees of the will of John Rice late of Carmarthen, esq., decd.; 3. Woodford Rice of Carmarthen, esq. (only brother and devisee of the said John Rice who was eldest son and heir of John Rice late of Coedstrea, esq., decd.) and Joice Rice of Rhydygaia, parish of Llanpimsaint (widow of the said John Rice of Coedstrea and Mother of the said Woodford); 4. Vaughan Horton of Lletterllestry, co. Carmarthen, esq.; 5. James Bowen of Cardigan, gent.; 6. Rev. David Davies Morgan of New North St., Holborn, clerk, and Christiana, his wife (niece and executrix of John Morgan late of Cardigan, esq., decd.); 7. Charles Davies of Fleet St. and Hector Davies of Ludgate Hill, city of London, gentlemen (sons of the said D.D Morgan by Mary, his former wife). LEASE AND RELEASE of the capital messuage called Pentre Mawr and other messuages, etc., in the parish of Llanpimsaint as specified in No. 1653. Consideration: £2,217 (including money due on mortgage, cf. No. 1661). Endorsements: (1) Revocation and new appointment to uses by 6, 1785. (2) Memorandum of a Recovery suffered on the lands, 1781. From: arthur.turnerthomas@live.com To: daibevan@clara.co.uk Subject: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine Marriage Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 12:56:48 +0000 Dai It appears my messages are not getting through to the list so I thought of sending to you direct to post. The persons mentioned in the will of Joyce Price of Llanllawddog SD1784-150 http://hdl.handle.net/10107/890964 may give rise to a different pedigree. Joyce Price was in all probably the wife of Woodford Rice senior SD/1771/34. Joyce Price was an educated and literate woman, as she signed her will. Grandson John Perkins, son of William Perkins of Llangelor Granddaughter Anne Bowen daughter of my daughter Anne Jones Anne Price or Rice of Penboyr daughter of my late son John Price Son Woodford Price of St Peters Daughter Joyce Perkins wife of William Perkins The grant of Administration, 1789 of David Rice of Llanllawddog SD1789-133 http://hdl.handle.net/10107/69141 was administered by his sister Charlotte The grant of Administration, 1789 of Woodford Rice of Llanllawddog SD1789-135 http://hdl.handle.net/10107/637828 was administered by his sister Charlotte The grant of Administration, 1789 of Henry Rice of Llanllawddog SD1789-134 http://hdl.handle.net/10107/546888 was administered by his sister Charlotte Burial records Last name:RiceFirst Name:JohnCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:Carmarthen, St PeterAge:Burial Year:1772Burial Month:JunBurial Day:27 Last name:Rice First Name:WoodfordCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:Carmarthen, St PeterAge:Burial Year:1771Burial Month:FebBurial Day:11 Last name:PriceFirst Name:JoyceCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:LlangelerAge:Burial Year:1784Burial Month:MarBurial Day:22 Last name:RiceFirst Name:WoodfordCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:LlanllawddogAge:Burial Year:1787Burial Month:AugBurial Day:10 Baptisms Woodford Rice as father Forenames:AnneSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1736Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:22Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:CharlesSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1745Baptism Month:JanBaptism Day:-Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:DavidSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1740Baptism Month:MayBaptism Day:29Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:GraceSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1737Baptism Month:AugBaptism Day:15Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:HarrySurname:RiceBaptism Year:1748Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:15Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:JohnSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1726Baptism Month:MayBaptism Day:18Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:Margaret ElizabethSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1742Baptism Month:JanBaptism Day:09Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:MauriceSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1728Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:08Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:MosesSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1735Baptism Month:JunBaptism Day:09Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:RichardSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1738Baptism Month:OctBaptism Day:30Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire

Listers, Many of you will be familiar with Annie Lloyd [email cardi2(at)aol.com]. Jen Mathias has brought to my attention that Annie sadly passed away just over a year ago. Two obituaries have been published, and are reproduced here. We will miss a valuable contributor to our little community. Thanks, Jen, for bringing it to my attention. Dai Bevan List Admin *NINNAU The North American Welsh Newspaper® Papur Bro Cymry Gogledd America™ Incorporating Y DRYCH™ Vol. 37, No. 5 September-October 2012* We regret to share with our readers that Annie Lloyd, our Genealogist, died on August 22, 2012. Anne started her column searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend. [There is also a very much longer obit in the Ninnau Pages] * BIFHS–USA [British Isles Family History Society – USA]* *http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bifhsusa/news/index.html <http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ebifhsusa/news/index.html>* *Bulletin – Sept/Oct 2012, Page 5 * * * *In Memoriam, Annie Lloyd,* *Gorffwys mewn hedd* *by Fran Smith* * * This is the last edition of “Annie’s Page.” Annie Lloyd died on 22 Aug 2012 after a few months of illness, but almost to the day of her death she was active with BIFHS, serving wherever needed. I will miss her very much. She was always supportive, funny, warm, always willing to lend an ear, and always willing to help. Annie stated adamantly that she was not a founding member of BIFHS, yet others, like charter member Evelyn Wallace, recall her participation in BIFHS from the beginning, so she must have joined soon after its inauguration. Evelyn recalls that Annie was always a hard worker. BIFHS historical documents show that Annie served in many capacities, from 1st Vice-President, Newsletter Editor, and Seminar Registrar, to work on numerous committees. But the records do not tell how much she filled in wherever there was a vacancy. Behind-the-scenes, when no one else could help out, she continued to arrange programs and edit the journal for extended periods on a pro tem basis. She headed the nominating committee, took meeting minutes, answered queries, and often covered for others when they were ill or out of town. Annie will be most remembered at BIFHS as our Welsh Study Group Leader. She taught Welsh research classes for BIFHS, LAFHL, and other organizations. Some members, like Dolores Andersen, credit Annie with encouraging them to become more active in the society. Annie’s genealogical reputation extends beyond BIFHS, as she also was a member of, and held key positions at, Los Angeles Westside Genealogical Society and Whittier Area Genealogical Society. Annie was born in Los Angeles. Her father, William Lloyd, worked for Metro-Goldwin-Mayer in the special effects department. Annie told me that one of the films he worked on was Gone With the Wind, for which he built the town of Atlanta—in miniature. William was an immigrant from Wales, as were several of her extended family members in Southern California. Whether Annie became interested in family history because of her Welsh background, or got interested in Wales after taking up genealogy, I never learned, but, as Lydia Jeffrey observed, her heart seemed to be in Wales. Evelyn recalls how her enthusiasm led to a trip to her father’s homeland, where she met cousins and other relatives. Annie was also active with the Welsh Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles, and divided the hours every fourth Sunday of the month between her church and BIFHS. Lydia remembers that sometimes Annie would say, "Don't worry about me if I don't respond. I'm working on my column for NINNAU, the Welsh newsletter." Arturo Roberts, the president and editor ofNINNAU & Y DRYCH, The North American Welsh Newspaper, counted Annie as a friend. He gave me permission to reprint the following memorial published in NINNAU: “Annie started her column Searching the Family Tree in the May 1995 issue of NINNAU, and published her last column in the May-June issue. During these 17 years, she faithfully produced a column for each issue of the publication (monthly through 2008 and every other month thereafter). She also kept her promise to help readers find their Welsh ancestors through the pages of NINNAU, and was also willing to extend individual help. Her columns were informative and entertaining, and guided our readers in the difficult art of Welsh genealogy. As much as our readers appreciated her writing, the Editor enjoyed even more her qualities as an editorial contributor. This newspaper is grateful to a loyal columnist and friend.” Annie’s warmth, generosity, and devotion to genealogy will be missed by all of us. Beth McCarty, recalling Annie’s many years of walking with a cane, wrote us, “She will be more comfortable now and can soar.” As member Frank Hearne wrote when he heard about her passing, “God bless Annie.” **

Thanks you very much to Achwr and Sir Arthur for your replies. Achwr, I have seen some of the consistory court court papers you mention, where Anne is described as the daughter of Woodford Rice, and Rev. John James testified that the clandestine marriage took place in 1749. But (unless I've missed something) I couldn't find the eventual outcome. I suppose I will have to go to the Court of Arches to see if there's anything there. Family Search Community Trees has the Rice tree, which lists some of the children that Arthur identified, though not Anne. It doesn't give a date for Woodford's marriage to Catherine Lloyd, but it creates further confusion by giving him 2 wives, both of whom are said to have died after him. The other is the widow Joyce Howells, whose death is in Sir Arthur's list. It's possible that somewhere along the line Catherine's date of death (1788) has been transcribed wrongly. Arthur - I see that Anne's existence and parentage is confirmed by the baptism in your list on 22 July 1736. That makes her around 13 at the time of the marriage, if the baptism was close to the date of birth - legal but perhaps a little young for a 25 year old man? Many thanks Anna

Burial records Last name:RiceFirst Name:JohnCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:Carmarthen, St PeterAge:Burial Year:1772Burial Month:JunBurial Day:27 Last name:Rice First Name:WoodfordCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:Carmarthen, St PeterAge:Burial Year:1771Burial Month:FebBurial Day:11 Last name:PriceFirst Name:JoyceCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:LlangelerAge:Burial Year:1784Burial Month:MarBurial Day:22 Last name:RiceFirst Name:WoodfordCounty:CarmarthenshirePlace / Parish:LlanllawddogAge:Burial Year:1787Burial Month:AugBurial Day:10 Baptisms Woodford Rice as father Forenames:AnneSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1736Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:22Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:CharlesSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1745Baptism Month:JanBaptism Day:-Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:DavidSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1740Baptism Month:MayBaptism Day:29Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:GraceSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1737Baptism Month:AugBaptism Day:15Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:HarrySurname:RiceBaptism Year:1748Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:15Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:JohnSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1726Baptism Month:MayBaptism Day:18Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:Margaret ElizabethSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1742Baptism Month:JanBaptism Day:09Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:MauriceSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1728Baptism Month:JulBaptism Day:08Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:MosesSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1735Baptism Month:JunBaptism Day:09Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire Forenames:RichardSurname:RiceBaptism Year:1738Baptism Month:OctBaptism Day:30Place:LlanllawddogCounty:Carmarthenshire

Anna, As I have an interest in some of the families in Llanllawddog, Llanpumpaint, and surrounding parishes, I looked at the Gellyfergam family in the past, and could not make sense of the information available at the time. John Rice of The County Borough of Carmarthen died in 1732. SD/1732/30 (The Will is endorsed Gellyfergam.) Some at least of his children were minors, and there is no Anne Rice mentioned, but neither for that matter is Woodford Rice, who was apparently the eldest son and heir. Anne Rice is probably the daughter of Woodford Rice who died in 1771. SD/1771/34. Francis Jones in his inimitable fashion, has it appears missed out generations in the entry on Gelli Fergam in Carmarthenshire Homes. As Woodford Rice died in 1771, he could not have married Catherine Lloyd of Crynfryn in the same year "by whom he had four sons and two daughters". There are other Rice Wills, which seem to relate to this family, and one mentions Catherine his Grandmother who had a life interest in the estate. The following documents might through further light on the case between Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel of Trimsaran, and Ann Mansel, Rice or Price. Gellyfergam is described as in Llanllawddog Parish when Ann Price is Cited for jactitation of marriage in 1756, and it would appear also in 1757. There may have been adjoining properties of the same name, separated by the parish boundary. SD/CCCm(G)/397 (a-c) 1756 June 2 Parties: Anne Mansel agst. Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansel, bart. Context: Restitution of conjugal rights. D., Return of a Commission executed in a Cause of Appeal from the Court of Arches. SD/CCCM/C(G)/649 1756 Sept. 16 Citees: Ann Price of Gellyvorgan, Llanllawthog, sp. Cause: To ans. Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansell, bart., for jact. of marriage. SD/CCCM/M(G)/85 1757 May 13 Monished: Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansell. Cause: To put in his personal answers to Anne Rice of Llanllawthog in cause of jactitation of marriage. SD/Arches/7 (a-f) 1760 April 4-1761 Nov. 2 Parties: Sir Edward Vaughan Mansell, bart., agst. Anne Price, spinster, falsely calling herself Dame Anne Mansell. Context: Jactitation of marriage. Acts of commissioners, substitutions of proctors, bill of costs, instructions for examining witnesses. Best wishes, Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Sep 04 2013, 07:08 PM From: "Anna Brueton" <bruetons@anoeth.demon.co.uk> To: Dyfed@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine Marriage Can anyone help me with further details in this case? In 1756, Anne Rice of Gellyfergam, Abergwili, took out an action in the Consistory Court at Carmarthen against Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel for restitution of conjugal rights, in respect of a marriage which was said to have taken place in 1749. (Francis Jones, in Cwmgwili and its families, in the Carmarthenshire Historian, suggests that the marriage took place in 1733, but he must be mistaken - Edward would have been just a child then). He claimed that no marriage had taken place, and the case went to the Court of Arches, where the surviving papers seem to suggest that he then tried to annul the marriage. I wondered whether anyone knows what the outcome was. Mansel married Mary Shewen in 1763, so the case must have been decided by then. Grateful for any clues Anna ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Can anyone help me with further details in this case? In 1756, Anne Rice of Gellyfergam, Abergwili, took out an action in the Consistory Court at Carmarthen against Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel for restitution of conjugal rights, in respect of a marriage which was said to have taken place in 1749. (Francis Jones, in Cwmgwili and its families, in the Carmarthenshire Historian, suggests that the marriage took place in 1733, but he must be mistaken - Edward would have been just a child then). He claimed that no marriage had taken place, and the case went to the Court of Arches, where the surviving papers seem to suggest that he then tried to annul the marriage. I wondered whether anyone knows what the outcome was. Mansel married Mary Shewen in 1763, so the case must have been decided by then. Grateful for any clues Anna

In this correspondence about the Baillieu family the "note" referred to was from a book I wrote and was published by the Haverfordwest Civic Society in 1993. "My Haverfordwest Childhood 1918-1938" Vera

Rachel, Another useful site for finding further details of the fallen, including service numbers is:- West Wales War Memorial Project http://www.wwwmp.co.uk/ if you know on which memorial your relative is likely to be commemorated. (Birthplace, residence, married address for example). This site covers Cardiganshire, Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire (Dyfed) and also has a section for "uncommemorated local men" Jen ________________________________ From: Jennifer Cairns <jenmathias@gmail.com> To: "rachel-boyd@sbcglobal.net" <rachel-boyd@sbcglobal.net>; "DYFED-L@rootsweb.com" <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013, 9:22 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] WWI - some soldiers' wills now available. Dear Rachel The Commonwealth War Graves Commission pages are probably your best option. http://www.cwgc.org This first page asks for name initial, service (ie army, navy/ etc, and WWI /II which automatically goes into the advanced search page together with all the names that fit your description. If the surname you are searching for is (say) Evans you may have a longish task ahead of you.  Service number - this should be given with the other details (place of burial etc). Note - officers appear not to have a service number, also non-fighting men/women such as stewards, VAD etc. Also, not all servicemen left wills. Anyway, hope you are successful. Jen

Dear Rachel The Commonwealth War Graves Commission pages are probably your best option. http://www.cwgc.org This first page asks for name initial, service (ie army, navy/ etc, and WWI /II which automatically goes into the advanced search page together with all the names that fit your description. If the surname you are searching for is (say) Evans you may have a longish task ahead of you.  Service number - this should be given with the other details (place of burial etc). Note - officers appear not to have a service number, also non-fighting men/women such as stewards, VAD etc. Also, not all servicemen left wills. Anyway, hope you are successful. Jen ________________________________ From: "rachel-boyd@sbcglobal.net" <rachel-boyd@sbcglobal.net> To: "DYFED-L@rootsweb.com" <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 23:03 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] WWI - some soldiers' wills now available. It says you have to know the year of death. I don't know that for the fellow I'm interested in researching, but I do have his service number.. somewhere.. Do you know offhand if there's a way of finding the date of death with the service number?? Rachel Boyd   ________________________________ From: Jennifer Cairns <jenmathias@gmail.com> To: "DYFED-L@rootsweb.com" <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 12:58 PM Subject: [Dyfed] WWI - some soldiers' wills now available.   Dear List https://www.gov.uk/probate-search The Probate Service is making available the wills and last letters home of 280,000 soldiers who died in the Great War. There is a charge of £6 to download a document. It can take up to 10 days to have the document made available. (The will I was interested in took three days to be downloadable [.pdf file]) Searching is quicker if you know the soldier's army number. Jen Cairns ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html  [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

FYI, from my friend in London Robert -----Original Message----- From: Chris Baillieu Yes, but the relationship is quite distant and I haven’t been able to check the extended family tree. I am descended from the Australian branch founded by my Gt Gt Grandfather James George who arrived in Australia in 1853 aged 21. He had 14 children and my Gt Grandfather William Latham Baillieu was the founder of the business empire referred to. JG was one of 15 children himself and in the 1840s the family were destitute and living in Haverfordwest. In 1849 JG's father Lambert wrote to his half brother Frederick: " My second son James is gone to sea...bound for Valparaiso...and is the only one of the family who is earning his bread, all the rest are dependent on me for support." I'm guessing that Frederick George, who appears to have been born in Wales, was descended from either one of JG's brothers or possibly, given his name, from Lambert's half brother Frederick. I can clarify this if you'd like to know by having a word with one of my Aussie cousins who is effectively the family historian. We recently commissioned a biography about WL and I represented the (post emigration) English end of the family so I know there is plenty of information on the extended family. ----Original Message----- From: Robert Treharne Jones [mailto:tjwizard@tiscali.co.uk] Are you related to these Baillieus, and can you offer more information which I can pass on? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: George Baillieu I came across a message string in Rootsweb about Frederick George Baillieu. I have been researching my wife’s family (Rooney) and and one of her relatives (Eileen Mary Rooney) married Frederick George Baillieu. They were married in Maryborough Queensland Australia on 5/11/1917. They had 3 children Redmond Joseph Baillieu born 1919 in NSW Australia (the Redmond comes from Eileen's stepfather William Archer Redmond –related to the Redmonds of the Irish parliament) George Baillieu born 1/8/1920 in Milwaukee Wisconsin USA and Dawn born about 1923 where? As a bit of background the Baillieu families were and still are very influential families in Australia and were very powerful during the late 1800s and early 1900s. They were heavily involved in the mining industry especially the Broken Hill Mines which were at that time the richest silver, lead and zinc mines in the world. Frederick George was related to these families. He was born in Wales. He made a name for himself in Australia as a very successful boxing promoter. Below is his obituary from the New South Wales (NSW) paper. The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) Monday 9 August 1926 Obituary MR. GEORGE BAILLIEU. Mr. George Baillieu, well-known throughout Australia as a boxing promoter and sportsman, died in a private hospital at Randwick early yesterday morning. Although his health had been falling for some time Mr. Baillieu, who was 60 years of age, seconded in the principle bout at the Stadium on Saturday night one of his men, Joe Gonsalves. Immediately after he left the Stadium he collapsed. Friends took him to his home, whence Dr. Solomon had him conveyed to hospital. He did not regain consciousness. In his youth Mr. Baillieu, who was a member of the Baillieu family of Melbourne, and like them came from Wales, achieved considerable fame as an amateur sportsman. He was associated in boxing at the National Sporting Club, London, and professionally handled Jim Driscoll, Jimmy Wilde, and Llew Edwards, the champion lightweight. He made several trips from Australia to America and the Philippines in search of boxers for the Stadium. He married a stepdaughter of Mr. W. A. Redmond, of the "Daily Telegraph." She survives him with a family of three children, the eldest of which is not yet seven. The funeral will leave the Church of the Holy Cross, Bondi, Bondi Junction, at 10.30 . o'clock this morning. ------------------------ George Baillieu jnr. (born 1920) was killed in action in WWII in Malaya.

Rachel, If you click on "Advanced search" there is a field for service number. Alternatively, if you know the approximate year, and the name is not Jones, or Thomas etc. then just try a number of years. It's easy then if you know it's WW1 or WW2. Dai On 02/09/2013 23:03, rachel-boyd@sbcglobal.net wrote: > It says you have to know the year of death. I don't know that for the fellow I'm interested in researching, but I do have his service number.. somewhere.. > Do you know offhand if there's a way of finding the date of death with the service number?? > Rachel Boyd > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jennifer Cairns <jenmathias@gmail.com> > To: "DYFED-L@rootsweb.com" <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 12:58 PM > Subject: [Dyfed] WWI - some soldiers' wills now available. > > > Dear List > > https://www.gov.uk/probate-search > > > The Probate Service is making available the wills and last letters home of 280,000 soldiers who > died in the Great War. There is a charge of > £6 to download a document. It can take up to 10 days to have the document made available. (The will I was interested in took three days to be downloadable [.pdf file]) > Searching is quicker if you know the soldier's army number. > > Jen Cairns > >