Well our posts are crossing in the ether. From "The Real Welcome Passengers": The next news of the Welcome was from the London Gazette. The story was datelined Deal, September 2, and reported that "two days since" three ships had sailed for Pennsylvania, "on board [one] of which was William Penn." It did not name the ships, and the others may have been small cargo boats or two of the many ships for Maryland or Virginia. The geography of the New World was still vague to the news writers of the period, who sometimes referred to Pennsylvania as an island. The Welcome, then, left late on the 30th or the 31st and stopped somewhere along the Channel coast to take on more food and water, perhaps even to pick up more passengers. Penn wrote that it was two weeks before they saw the last of England, six more before they sighted land in America. Eight weeks - always counting from the Downs - was an average time for the crossing against the prevailing westerly winds, although a month later the Jeffrey from London took only twenty-nine days. > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Hall [mailto:doughall@mail.tds.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:47 PM > To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com > Cc: DUTTON-L > Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists > > > Curt, > > If the Welcome didn't arrive until October 27, 1682, then John Dutton must > not have been on it. The laying out of the land to him occurred on October > 8. That would not have occurred if he were still at sea. Thus > either (1) he > arrived before the Welcome on some other ship or (2) the Welcome > arrived in > Pa somewhat earlier, such as Mary Harris date of August 1682. > > There may be some confusion on the arrival date because one needs to > consider WHERE it arrived. I may be wrong - my history material isn't in > front of me here - but I recall the Welcome first landed in > Chester, Pa, and > only sailed up the river further to the place that was to become > Philadelphia later. Maybe it landed in Chester in August and John > Dutton and > others disembarked for the land they had been granted in that area and it > went upriver to Philadelphia with the remaining passengers only after some > time. Thus, the arrival in Phialdelphia could be a different date, even > different month. That would also explain how passenger lists attributed to > people writing about Philadelphia history did not include John Dutton. He > had gotten off the boat before it ever arrived in Philadelphia! > > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Rowe <curtrowe@ix.netcom.com> > To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:04 PM > Subject: RE: Ship Passenger Lists > > > >Perhaps the web site intended to say that the Welcome sailed in August of > >1682, which was the case. Balderston has it arriving 27 Oct > 1682 while E. > >B. Cowgill says in the first weeks of November. > > > >It is likely that E. B. Cowgill compiled the list by taking the word of > some > >that their ancestors arrived on the Welcome. As with the Battle of > >Hastings, many people would like to believe in some famous association. > >After a few generations wishful thinking becomes fact. > > > >There was a belief on my mothers side that our Bartlett ancestor was > >descended from Robert Bartlett of Mayflower fame and Josiah Bartlett who > >signed the Declaration of Independence. This is not possible > since the two > >Bartletts are of different lines. I'm not positive of the link to Robert > >Bartlett either. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:52 PM > >> To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com > >> Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists > >> > >> > >> Hi Curt, > >> > >> Thanks for the information. I have written to Mary Harris in PA to > >> inquire if they put all their ships lists up on the web, yet. She has > >> the Welcome arriving in August, 1682, and you tell me that the ship > >> arrived in November, 1682. The ship could've come back in November and > >> Mary just doesn't have it uploaded yet or maybe she just doesn't have > >> the passenger lists from ALL the ships. > >> > >> Re: Marion Balderston. I don't understand (maybe I'm naieve!) why > >> anyone would make up a bogus passenger list. If they are on the list, > >> that's good enough for me even if we do not understand why they'd go to > >> London instead of Liverpool to board a ship. > >> > >> Thanks again, for your help, > >> Carole Dutton Malisiak > >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > >> > >> > Side 2: > >> > "October the 8th 1682 > >> > Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland > >> Creek beginning > >> > at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW > >> into the woods > >> > 565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked > >> White Oak > >> > from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by > >> Upland Creek from > >> > there along the Creek side on several courses to the first > Corner tree. > >> > by me Charles Ashcome > >> > A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" > >> > >> > I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when > >> his land was > >> > laid out, but I don't think it is likely. > >> > > >> > A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome > >> which arrived > >> > at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers > is > >> > from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real > Welcome > >> > Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be > >> on the welcome > >> > are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on > the > >> > Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues > >> that they would > >> > not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when > >> they could have > >> > boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. > >> > > > > > >