Dear Carole, I went through the quest that you are working through around the end of 1996, detect your frustration, and wanted to offer how I have personally resolved this. I am sharing this with the list since I believe that others have gone through the same search or are doing it right now. The web site that you reference below, along with several others that I found, are listed in the Cousin Connection of the Library section of the web site [The Dunton Homesite]. Regarding the information at LaFaye's site, she replied back to me (abt Dec 1996) to tell me that the information was submitted or provided by someone else. It was not her original research. Regarding Cope, I was warned, early on in my genealogical quest some years back, to take his work with a grain of salt. Perhaps as you would treat a piece of family lore. Use it as a possible path to research. Regarding documentation, as you have discovered, the farther back in time that you go, the more difficult it becomes to accurately document. As a family, we are certainly blessed that we can accurately "prove" ancestry into the 1600s. I know many people (and personally have a couple of family lines) that cannot get back prior to Great-grandparents. The family database that I maintain, does include the early Dutton lineage's, but whenever I discuss them with anyone, I qualify that only the actual research that I have done, or that which I have copies of documentation in the archive for, are considered to be proven. The information that you find on the Internet is no different. When I posted The Dunton Homesite in 1996, there were only two other locations (that I could find) that had Dutton or Dunton information -- LaFaye's (which you listed) and Patrick Janis' [http://www.genealogy.org/~czech/index.html]. Now there are quite a few cousins who have posted genealogies -- different variations on the same theme. Ultimately, the source materials are the same -- "Memorials to the Duttons of Dutton, Cheshire", Gilbert Cope, David Douglas, etc. Realize that these "sources" are secondary at best. How it is interpreted and reported, adds yet another chance for error. Anyway, I say this all not to discourage, but to encourage. We have a rich heritage irregardless of the precision of our connection to these ancient times. We know that we would not be here if we did not. I will continue to pursue fact, but I have also become comfortable knowing that my ancestors, lived in those times and places, and had some connection with these people. Perhaps we will never find inconclusive documentation . . . short of genetic testing. This is just my opinion :) Mike Dunton <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ The Dunton Family Homesite http://www.web-ster.com/miked list manager for dutton-l@rootsweb.com & dunton-l@rootsweb.com <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 1998 3:14 PM To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: FSA, Dukes and Counts Hi all, I wrote to a young fella on the web who has posted a relationship to Odard (not a Dutton) and the response I received was that FSA probably stands for "Fellow of the Society of Antiquarians" Subject #2 I, personally, am having great difficulty accepting, as is, the family connections to the Dukes of Normandy because of relationship problems. I have graphed the data from Curt Rowe's web page (and David Douglas) from Richard I to the Conqueror. This results in William 4th Count of Eu being a cousin to Wm the Conq. and Odard being a cousin to Hugh d'Avranches. If Cope is correct on page 12 he says Wm the Conqueror is their great Uncle, then this cannot be a correct listing. And when I add in the ancestors of Hugh Lupus, then Helisende is an Aunt to Hugh and cousins with Odard. This is all wrong, if Cope is correct!!! Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 1) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 1) Richard II, the Good 1 Toustein le Goz + Judith 2) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 2) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 2 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 3) Wm, 4th Count of Eu 3) Wm, the Conqueror 3 Emma de Conteville m. m. Helisende d'Avranches Richard d/Avranches 4) Odard 4 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches I also looked at Hull's data. Boy! Brian Thompsett is somethng else! First of all, he reports that Emma de Conteville is fictitious. Since she was supposed to be married to Richard d'Avranches, and since Hugh Lupus d'Avranches and Helisende d'Avranches were their children, I have a problem with this! So, Thompsett was no help at all! I found another web page where everything makes sense with Gilbert Cope. It is, of course, undocumented, but at least everything goes together according to Cope. http://www.empirenet.com/~lafaye/d0001/g0000091.html#I1508 The only difference between the above page and (David Douglas and Curt Rowe) is that William the 2nd Count of Eu is the son of Richard II instead of Richard I. This shifts all the relationships down one generation on the Eu side and makes Odard the nephew of Hugh Lupus and the great grandson of the Conqueror!! This would be great if I could document it! I have written the author for the sources! (I hope my charts come out right!) 1) Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 2) Richard II, the Good 3) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 3) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 3 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 4) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 4) Wm, the Conqueror 4 Emma de Conteville m. 5) Wm, 4th Count of Eu Richard d/Avranches m. Helisende d'Avranches 5 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches 6) Odard Carole Dutton Malisiak