Hi Darrell & Donna & the List in general. Unfortunately, I have to agree 100% (with one minor exception explained later) with Darrrell's assessment of the lineage (or lack thereof) of Thomas DUTTON m. Susannah (PALMER?). I have known from the beginning of this research that, were I to include only positively proven data in my file, it would be a skinny file, especially where Thomas' immediate ancestors were (or were not) involved. As such, I have made the personal decision to include data using the "Preponderance of Evidence" principal and doing my best to indicate my lack of confidence where appropriate, either in the notes or otherwise (such as above where I am aware that the surname (PALMER?) is unproved. I guess what I am saying is that I will use unproved data (so annotated where appropriate) that is generally accepted by either the majority of "experts" or a person in a position to know, or until it is definitely disproved. For example: Darrell - I have your maternal grandfather as Derrick Allen DUTTON b. 5 Jan 1905, Springfield, VT, d. 5 May 1965, Springfield, VT, occupation: farmer. I don't personally have the documentation to prove any of that but I would be willing to bet a sizable sum that you do and I accept that data as fact. Now for the one minor flaw (picky, picky, picky) I noted in your assessment (see below) of the John DUTTON/Mary NEELD problem. It makes it even more negative than your message. Where you mention that John DUTTON appeared in Winthrup's list of passengers, I believe the actual situation was that a "Mr. DUTTON" (no given name mentioned) appeared in the margin of one of Winthrup's logs - not even in a list. The given name John was subsequently found in the Court records of one of the early MA towns - possiblyWoburn, but I have forgotten. Donna - I will be happy to share what data I have as long as you understand its possible limitations. At the time we were exchanging more reliable modern data and you never inquired about anything else. Or you can visit the following web site where most of the controversy started. It can be found at: http://genealogy.org:80/~czech/D0012/I3093.html Happy Hunting everyone! Dick Dutton ==================================================== Darrell A. Martin wrote: > At 01:14 AM 01/17/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi Darrell, you say that line is wrong. Can you help me by sending me a > >copy of what you think and feel is correct. I have been working my my > >husband line of Duttons for a very long time. I had Dick Dutton give me > >back to John and Mary Need ( I'm not really sure how you spell her last name > >I don't have it out in front of me) then he stopped. Could you help me > >from that line back as far as you want to go. Or as far as you can go. I > >really would like it. > >Sincerely with much Thanks. > >Donna De Graw degraw@bmi.net > > > > Donna: > > I'm afraid that what I have to offer is negative. There was a John Dutton > who settled in Aston, PA, in the 1600's. He was the subject of Cope's > genealogy of the Dutton family. Descendants of the Dutton "group" of > Reading, MA in the mid-1600's often use Cope's work, but there is NO proof > of a connection between the MA and PA Duttons. Cope suggests there might > be, but had no documentation and was careful enough to point out that very > fact. The LDS Church's Personal Ancestral File for the Dutton ancestry of > Joseph Smith the Prophet is a mess, with one Dutton having his children > born over a span of nearly a century, beginning before his *own* birth! > > It is *OFTEN* reported that the John Dutton who appears on Governor > Winthrop's list of passengers in the fleet of 1630 is the ancestor of all > the Reading, MA Duttons. That is possibly correct, but I have searched a > long time for even a shred of proof. He supposedly married Mary Nield or > Neeld, which is PATENTLY INCORRECT. The John Dutton who was of PA married > Mary Darlington, and after his death Mary (Darlington) Dutton married a > Nield or Neeld. (Don't quote me on her maiden name, I have that third hand > and don't even have that e-mail in front of me as I write.) > > It is often, and possibly correctly, claimed that the Thomas Dutton who was > of Reading, Woburn, and Billerica, MA, b. prob. 1619 or 1620, supposedly > the son of John, married Susannah Palmer. A careful reading of most such > claims shows various discrepancies, such as the marriage taking place on a > date when the supposed location had no European inhabitants whatever. In > any case, the evidence is never primary or even credibly secondary, and > there is no real evidence that her maiden name was Palmer. My best guess is > that a Palmer will from London, England, reported in NEHGR, which mentions > a cousin Susanna Dutton (not spelled that way), is the block of Jello on > which the house of cards has been built. > > Once you get past the disappointment of accepting that we really DON'T know > "zilch" about Thomas' ancestry, you will find that his descendants are > pretty well documented and reported. > > I am copying this to the Dutton list only because I am working from memory, > and I want the list members to have the chance to correct me before > something I messed up gets chiseled in stone. > > Darrell > > formerly of the Dutton District > in Springfield, Vermont > currently in exile in Addison, Illinois > darrellm@sprynet.com