Hi Phyllis, My search for Odard's parents is going very poorly. I have checked the GEN-MEDIEVAL-L archives and the expert's, Todd A. Famerie and Paul C. Reed, report this: Odard has no parents, the information supplied by Ormerod is patently false, it is imaginery, it is fabulous, it is fantasy. So! Needless to say, I am very unhappy. I have just read taf's messages today. I had a note from pcr in December stating that both of Odard's fathers were fantasy. I am sending this info to the list, as well. And I have not changed my web page as yet. BUT.....what to do? I think that I am going to write a blurb about the "experts" and their reason for throwing our family out the window. I think that I will send the list members the same info and let everyone decide for themselves who they want to believe. I think that the evidence cited by pcr is weak. He throws Odard's two fathers out because he says that the names Odard, Edard, Geffrey, Wlofaith, Horsynne, and Nigel are Anglo-Saxon names and that the information was derived from Dugdale's Monasticon Anglianun vi. 315 and Ormerod i, 689-90 and that early monastic pedigrees are notorious for untrustowrthiness. Well, I disagree. Elisabeth Van Houts in her book, "The Gesta Normannorum Ducum of Wm of Jumiéges et al." reports on page 236-7, "He [King Henry] next subdued the stronghold of Brionne, by force rather than by voluntary surrender, and he punished by blinding the man who ever since the imprisonment of Count Waleran had been its castellan." "Orderic mentions three names: Geoffrey of Tourville, Odard of Le Pin, and Luke of La Barre, who was a jester." as the possible castellan. Thus, I believe, at this date, that Odard IS NOT an Anglo-Saxon name. I would say that Geffrey is not A-S either. Nigel is another name for Neil. So, three of the 6 names are not A-S and it just remains to find out the Norman names of the other three guys. I will be forwarding a list of names and their alternates to the list when I re-find it in the archives! Names were very fluid at that date, so, I am having a hard time believing that they would dismiss data based on names!!! I have to check out the "Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum 1066-154" published at Oxford, the Clarendon Press 1948, H.W.C. Davis ed. Vol 1 pg5 item 20 where Odard witnessed a document in 1067 at Vernon (Normandy) and also on page 20, but Mike Ward did not know what was on page 20. In this document, King William and William of Vernon were also witnesses and several others. On page 20, Mike tells me that Odard witnessed another document. This is a big puzzle to me and you would think that the "experts" would be helpful rather than just throwing everything out. Odard has to have a father--he didn't hatch! Frustrated in Ohio, Carole _____________________ Phyllis Ryerse wrote: > > Hey Carole......has this list dried up and vanished?? > Absolutely NOTHING! > What's happening?? > > I'm back to normal from running the store in the mall at Christmastime. > Very profitable----if you can hang in there! > I'm slowly getting back at the Duttons...trying to re-run the highlights and > hit the ground running again. I've got some questions for you -- and the > group which I'll send along in a day or two. > Let me hear how your search for Odard's parents has been going! > Last I heard you were comparing notes with some Frenchmen and trying to > translate Latin!! omy! > > Catch me up on all the news! > Phyllis