These Duttons are buried in Carroll County Mississippi, don't know the name of the Cemetery, but believe it to be in a community called Blackhawk. Melvin J. Dutton September 30, 1883 February 6, 1954 Belle Dutton January 1, 1862 March 22, 1959 Charles A. Dutton February 22, 1860 September 11, 1946 They are buried between members of the Stone and Grantham families. Other families in cemetery are Smith, Mims, Sturkle, Jackson, Hurst, Myers, Richardson, Jones, Trotter. Henry Brooks Smith buried here. Related to Brooks/Dutton family? Curious, Sonya Mims

1850 PENNSYLVANIA, Chester County, East Goshen Twp p. 262B: A wealthy miller, Isaac P. Dutton age 37 valued $10,000; Anna Maria age 30; Henry H. age 8, Mary Emma 5, Henrietta 4, Edward 6/12--all born Pennsylvania. West Chester Twp p. 329B: Ann Dutton age 42, Lacy or Lucy age 44, Annette 21, Sarah J. 20, Elizabeth M. 15, Thomas D. 9, all Duttons except a Rebeccah A. Mxxtack age 15--all born Pennsylvania.

At 09:18 PM 04/01/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Hello out there in DUTTON cyberland! > >I have great news. Naw, not about Odard! Drat! [snip] >Thomas' >son, John, was born 9 months, 10 days after his marriage. Is this a >shotgun wedding, a premature birth, or a successful wedding night?!!??? [snip] Hi, Dutton cousins and all: The "9 month" calculation is a misunderstanding by most people (not doctors). In fact, it is a way of calculating forward to the due date of an expected child, not a way of calculating backward to the conception date of one which has already arrived. One counts 9 months forward from the last menses (period) to estimate the delivery date. However, conception occurs about the time of ovulation, which is much more difficult to observe, about 2 weeks later. I believe the average human gestation period (conception to delivery) is 260 days, or 37 weeks plus, or almost exactly 8-1/2 months. Based on the 9-month method, a "honeymoon baby" would almost always appear to be premature (whichever way you define it). Thomas' son John was likely conceived nearly a month after the wedding. The reason that this sort of thing is not seen more is, first, the simple probabilities, as intercourse at ovulation results in conception a lot less than half the time. Also, it seems that becoming sexually active is a bit of an adjustment for most healthy adult female reproductive systems. The likelihood of conception increases over about the first year. Interestingly enough, it doesn't depend very much on the age of the woman (after about 17 years old and before 30). I'm not sure that Thomas and his wife would be all that happy about us modern Americans' contradictory habits of discussing all things sexual, while at the same time regarding the subject as still somehow excitingly taboo. I find it fascinating, as I have a large body of data from the 17th and 18th Centuries. Certain patterns emerge, allowing one (for example) to hypothesize a missing child, or a miscarriage, or that a woman died of complications of pregnancy or childbirth, when there is no direct evidence. One could safely conclude, for example, that given the lack of relatively effective contraceptives during the period, a very high percentage of 17th Century Massachusetts brides came to the wedding bed as virgins. One can also point to examples of the contrary, of course. For what it's worth. Darrell Darrell A. Martin formerly of the Dutton District, Springfield, Vermont currently in exile in Addison, Illinois darrellm@sprynet.com

Where do you find this stuff? For my records, what is the source to John's birth? Did I calculate correctly that he was born 20 June 1625? > -----Original Message----- > From: Carole Dutton Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:19 PM > To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Mary RENNY > > > Hello out there in DUTTON cyberland! > > I have great news. Naw, not about Odard! > > I have just squashed Col. Hansen's last argument for inventing a first > wife for John Dutton of Overton (bp 1625) by finding the record of the > marriage certificate of Thomas Dutton and Mary Renny of Manchester. > Their marriage license is dated 16 Sept 1624 and was granted within the > Archdeaconry of Chester in the Diocese of Chester, printed for "The > Record Society (for the Publication of Original Documents) relating to > Lancashire and Cheshire,Vol. III, 1624-1632," 1909, pg. 12. Thomas' > son, John, was born 9 months, 10 days after his marriage. Is this a > shotgun wedding, a premature birth, or a successful wedding night?!!??? > > Also, the records that I keep digging up support Lawson's chart pretty > good. Do you think so, too? > > I will write latter asking for help regarding primary records for US > born folks. I just got back from the library and have to get my email > to read the latest slander that D. Spencer Hines slings my way!!! Don't > worry, I'm in good company, DSH slanders everybody, even people like > dcr. > Later, > Carole > >

Hi Terry, On the page that you cited is the following information: "DUTTON, Thomas b 14 Dec 1606 Overton Township, Cheshire, England d 24 Jul 1653 m Mary Renny or Mary Will d ca. 1660" This is not the same information that I have given you. I have provided you with, as good as primary source information, about the exact date of the marriage license for John and Mary (RENNY) of Manchester: 16 Sept 1624. This information is new, primary, information that is not even provided at the site that you mention or anywhere else that I know of. And furthermore, I have given you the source of the information so that the doubters among us can go look it up for themselves. This is not information that "most people on this list" already know. Carole _______________________ Terry Whetstone Harmon wrote: > > Correct me if I am out of line but another source for this valuable information is > http://pw1.netcom.com/~curtrowe/duttons.html. I know that 'jewel' Carole (gawd I > love her) knows of this, as do most people on this list. > > Regards, > Terry

Hi Cori, I looked in the index to Cope's book and Lodi is not in there; however, in the 1700's Pennsylvania and Maryland quarreled about the boundary line between them. In 1763, the two states called in two English astronomers, Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon, who completed a survey of the land in 1767. This surveyed line is called the Mason-Dixon line and Pennsylvania lost some land to Maryland and the PA Duttons lost some PA Duttons to Maryland, as well. You may descend from Robert Dutton, but you will have to do a lot more digging to find out your line of descent. On page 40 Cope writes: "Robert was probably the youngest child of John [Dutton] and Mary [Darlington] Dutton. In 1701 a project was started of settling a township on the Maryland line, and several persons of Chichester, Aston, and the neighboring parts, agreed to take shares in the enterprise; each share to be one thousand acres. Among these were Robert Dutton and one Samuel Littler, who together took a share of 500 acres each. A large tract of 18,000 acres was laid out the next year and divided into smaller parcels, for which the different purchasers drew lots. This large tract was called Nottingham, but by the running of Mason and Dixon's line nearly all of the original township fell into Maryland. Robert Dutton and Samuel Littler obtained two lots, one on each side, east and west, of the "Brick Meeting." Cope expounds that the new settlers started a branch of the Friends Chichester and Concord Monthly meeting [important to know when looking for Quakers]. Robert Dutton married Ann Brown both of Nottingham Twp. with their second declaration being on 13th 8 mo. [Oct] 1707. Ann was the daugher to William and Ann (Mercer) Brown and was born 1 10 mo. [Dec] 1687. The monthly meetings changed: In 1715 the Nottingham meeting joined to the Newark Monthly Meeting; in 1718 it became a branch of the Newgarden Meeting; about 1730 the meeting was separated and became the Nottingham Monthly Meeting. Children of Robert and Ann (Brown) Dutton: Mary b. 15th 8 mo. 1708 Ann b. 10th 10 mo. 1711 Robert b. 26 8 mo. 1713. Nothing further is known of these three children. Now, the only hint I can give you besides all this data, which may lead you to back to the Duttons, is to email the Mercers. mailto:REMercer@aol.com and see if Robert E. Mercer can help out. We are related to the Mercer's and he may have enough Dutton data to help you out. Part of the Mercer family also immigrated from Pennsylvania to Ohio and we all lived in Harrisville, OH, and environs for quite some time. In Dillonvale, where I grew up, Lucille Mercer lived down the street from me. I hope that this helps, Please let me know if you find any connections. Good luck, Carole Cope's book may be purchased online at: http://www.higginsonbooks.com/ Also, I recall that Ed Dutton on this list has info on Indiana Duttons. Maybe he can help!!!! ____________________ Burnjcm@aol.com wrote: > > Carole~ > > Where can I find a copy of that Cope's book about the PA Dutton's? I keep > hearing you guys talk about it, but have no clue as to where I might find this > book. I suspect that the Dutton I'm trying to trace out is descended from the > Duttons of PA. His name was Lodia W. Dutton (born in MD around mid 1830's). > He lived in Cecil Co., MD; which is just over the state line from Chester Co., > PA where the Duttons of PA were from. He married Melissa Jeanetta Wales of > Talbot Co., MD. Could you look in that Cope book of yours to see if you can > find anything on any Duttons from PA that "migrated" to Eastern Shore MD? > Thanks. Lodia Dutton is my gr.gr.grandfather. > > Cori (Burnjcm@aol.com)

Hello out there in DUTTON cyberland! I have great news. Naw, not about Odard! I have just squashed Col. Hansen's last argument for inventing a first wife for John Dutton of Overton (bp 1625) by finding the record of the marriage certificate of Thomas Dutton and Mary Renny of Manchester. Their marriage license is dated 16 Sept 1624 and was granted within the Archdeaconry of Chester in the Diocese of Chester, printed for "The Record Society (for the Publication of Original Documents) relating to Lancashire and Cheshire,Vol. III, 1624-1632," 1909, pg. 12. Thomas' son, John, was born 9 months, 10 days after his marriage. Is this a shotgun wedding, a premature birth, or a successful wedding night?!!??? Also, the records that I keep digging up support Lawson's chart pretty good. Do you think so, too? I will write latter asking for help regarding primary records for US born folks. I just got back from the library and have to get my email to read the latest slander that D. Spencer Hines slings my way!!! Don't worry, I'm in good company, DSH slanders everybody, even people like dcr. Later, Carole

Dear Carole, You are a jewel! TTFN, Terry > I just got back from the library and have to get my email > to read the latest slander that D. Spencer Hines slings my way!!! Don't > worry, I'm in good company, DSH slanders everybody, even people like > dcr.

Gosh, you can hear a pin drop. Ron

To everyone interested in the DUTTON chart. I have mailed 54 charts to 47 members that requested one (or more). I have one more for Sam who has not yet given me a mailing address. I don't believe I'm interested in doing that again this year. The cost is US $i0.00 for those going to the USA and Canada and US $14.00 for those going to the rest of the world, and US $4.00 for each additional copy in the same mailing tube. Statistics: Copies were sent to 22 of the 50 US States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England (where I found the original and got my copy), The Netherlands, and New Guinea. I hope everyone finds a grandpa in there somewhere. Happy Hunting! Dick Richard A. Dutton 325 Beal Parkway Ft. Walton Beach, FL 32548-3956 rad@emcst.com Phone: 850-862-3327 FAX: 850-864-1444

Hi, Well here is a couple who claim to have found John's father. I'm sending along part of the note I received without their names (I'm not sure they appreciate my giving out their names yet). Maybe some of you know them already, but I thought I'd try and verify the information before we bombard them with questions and congratulations. I just wanted to keep you all informed and I'll let you know when I see the information (don't get your hopes up). Later, Randy Lilley ------------------------------------- Randy, Was sure glad to hear from you. It looks to me as if we both can be of help to each other. Do you have a genealogy program on your computer? I can make a ged-com of my Dutton line and send you. I have so much stuff on the direct line that it would take hours to type it into the computer e-mail. I have all the children of each couple also. Yes I know who the Father of John Dutton born in England in 1599 is. I go all the way back to the Nordic Kings. I have been working on the Dutton line for a special project for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My husband & I are on a mission here in Salt Lake City at the Churches Testing Lab. One of the projects I have been working on is the Dutton line. I have been verifying all records with Parish records in England, Vital records here in the states etc. The Church has a Medevil Department where people that trained to search these records out work. I have a hugh chart that takes the family back to the Nordic Kings. Will wait to hear from you as to how I can send you my records. How are you related to the Dutton line?

Hi Penny, I looked in Cope's book of PA Duttons but did not find your family. Sorry! Maybe someone else on the LIST has your kin! Good luck, Carole __________________ Larry Thompson wrote: > > Does anyone know of the DUTTON's of Indiana? I have a Lucy Jane Dutton > b.24 Aug 1845 > Pike Co., Ind > She married Zachariah PALMER on 3 Sep 1859 in Douglas Co., Missouri. > She is my 2ggrandmother and I would like to know more about her. I know she died 24 May 1881 in Missouri. > > PENNY at larryt@cyberhighway.net

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------50C11ECA3DED Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, this was not the final score. These folks cannot pass up a good argument or mud-slinging, name-calling contest. The argument rages on about genealogical proof. By the way, Keats-Rohan has 3 new books for sale at amazon.com and at barnesandnoble.com--expensive!!! BUT I think that she will become the leading authority on medieval folks. The COEL (Continental Origins of English Landholders) database will cost about $1000 American--quite out of reach!!! Even her books will have you eating Hamburger Helper for quite a long time. Carole --------------50C11ECA3DED Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by mail.midohio.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28738 for <malisiak@midohio.net>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15772; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:52:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:52:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5DB3959F593DD211BAA500A0C9B20C9F05BEFD@FS-ADMIN.fairview.org> From: Doug Gentile <Dgentile@mediafamily.org> Old-To: "'GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com'" <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Final score: Myth 0, Opinions 33 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:44:16 -0600 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"fgu_DC.A.f1D.uG6_2"@bl-11.rootsweb.com> Resent-From: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/21908 X-Loop: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Errors-To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@rootsweb.com Resent-Sender: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@rootsweb.com *laugh* Had I known what a can of worms I was opening, I might have kept my typing to myself. If I may be allowed to sum up, it seems possible that there are continuous lines of descent from Roman Imperial times through the middle ages, but there is not sufficient documentation for anyone to feel comfortably certain of it at this time. Regarding Joseph of Arimathea, it is again possible that he came to Britain after the crucifixion with his family, but again, there is not sufficient documentation for anyone to feel comfortably certain of it at this time. Anyone disagree with this summary? Pandora a.k.a. Doug National Institute on Media and the Family (612) 672-5437 or (888) 672-5437 e-mail: dgentile@mediafamily.org Web: www.mediafamily.org Lauren's Web Page: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/8703 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 3531 --------------50C11ECA3DED--

Sheila Dutton wrote: > > What is the Dutton Chart? > > Sheila Dutton ------------------------------------------ The Dutton Chart is a 2 x 3 foot (appx) chart of the lineage of the Duttons beginning with Sveide, a Norse King d 780 (based upon Norse sagas) and continuing down through the St. Sauveur's to Odard. It contains the lineage of the Dutton gentry, the PA Duttons, and the Sherbourne Duttons and shows relationships with William the Conqueror. The St. Sauveur line is just one of the proposed lines of ancestors for Odard, but we have not really been able to prove this line of descent; however, I have seen this line of descent in Collins, Arthur, Esq., The Peerage of England. Vol. IV. London, MDCCLVI (1756). The other unproven line of descent is through Heresendis (Helesendis) = William, Count of Eu. It is an interesting chart and I bought one for each of my children, plus, I have my old tattered, coffee-stained chart that I use as a guide for research back to medieval times. The more recent Duttons are from England. The PA Dutton line drops off the chart when John of PA immigrated to the US. Carole

What is the Dutton Chart? Sheila Dutton

I would like to purchase a DUTTON chart. Penny Thompson P.O. Box 63 Malta, Idaho 83342

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_922706892_boundary Content-ID: <0_922706892@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 99-03-21 14:09:44 EST, rad@emcst.com writes: << WOW! I never anticipated so much interest in the chart after sending out 32 the last time. At this point I will digress a moment to suggest that Mike Dunton take a well deserved bow for the tremendous service he has provided our family(s) by starting up and continuing this List. We can "Blame" much of the recent successful research and dissemination of the data to our "Cousins" worldwide on him. I therefore bestow upon him my personal "ATTABOY" award - Thanks Mike! BTW, how many subscribers do we have now? Now back to business. So far I have received requests for 27 charts. I still need mailing addresses from: Sam Larry Beldin Karen Davis Sowards Mary Ellen Kelchner Milton Froggatt And, while I'm sure I have addresses somewhere for the following, it would save me a lot of hunting if they would just send them again: Carole Dutton Malisiak Darrell A. Martin I have intentionally not YET sent my mailing address because some eager and honest souls sometimes jump the gun and send money and even I don't know the cost yet. The price is going down as more requests come in and, of coarse, the ones going overseas will cost more due to postage. I send them "At Cost." My guesstimate for the ones within the US is $10 -$15. For you folks outside the USA, the only practical war to send money is to go to your bank and buy a check payable in $US. For goodness sake do not send a check or any other instrument payable in any currency other than US - The bank charges and collection fees would have me owing them money. As a last resort you can just send US "green backs." I'll keep the List informed as to the progress. Happy Hunting! Dick Dutton >> I am also interested in receiving a copy of this chart. I am also interested in knowing more about what exactly it intails. --part0_922706892_boundary Content-ID: <0_922706892@inet_out.mail.emcst.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <DUTTON-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v58.13) with SMTP; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:09:44 -0500 Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA26756; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:09:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11780; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:09:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:09:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F543B2.E0052EE@emcst.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:08:52 -0600 From: Dick Dutton <rad@emcst.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Old-To: DUTTON list <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: DUTTON chart. Resent-Message-ID: <"YJ7FU.A.R3C.ePU92"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/924 X-Loop: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: DUTTON-L-request@rootsweb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit WOW! I never anticipated so much interest in the chart after sending out 32 the last time. At this point I will digress a moment to suggest that Mike Dunton take a well deserved bow for the tremendous service he has provided our family(s) by starting up and continuing this List. We can "Blame" much of the recent successful research and dissemination of the data to our "Cousins" worldwide on him. I therefore bestow upon him my personal "ATTABOY" award - Thanks Mike! BTW, how many subscribers do we have now? Now back to business. So far I have received requests for 27 charts. I still need mailing addresses from: Sam Larry Beldin Karen Davis Sowards Mary Ellen Kelchner Milton Froggatt And, while I'm sure I have addresses somewhere for the following, it would save me a lot of hunting if they would just send them again: Carole Dutton Malisiak Darrell A. Martin I have intentionally not YET sent my mailing address because some eager and honest souls sometimes jump the gun and send money and even I don't know the cost yet. The price is going down as more requests come in and, of coarse, the ones going overseas will cost more due to postage. I send them "At Cost." My guesstimate for the ones within the US is $10 -$15. For you folks outside the USA, the only practical war to send money is to go to your bank and buy a check payable in $US. For goodness sake do not send a check or any other instrument payable in any currency other than US - The bank charges and collection fees would have me owing them money. As a last resort you can just send US "green backs." I'll keep the List informed as to the progress. Happy Hunting! Dick Dutton --part0_922706892_boundary--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6DB695817B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought this message was intereting and am passing it along to all or you. Carole --------------6DB695817B3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mb3.mailbank.com (mb3.mailbank.com [209.133.104.8]) by mail.midohio.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13460 for <malisiak@midohio.net>; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:32:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by mb3.mailbank.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06595 for <genealogy@dutton.net>; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:32:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: mb3.mailbank.com: Host mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144] claimed to be mta3-svc.virgin.net Received: from default ([194.168.69.220]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990322213019.CTGI22309.mta3-svc@default> for <genealogy@dutton.net>; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:30:19 +0000 Message-ID: <36DA1D2C.3CC0@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:53:01 -0800 From: Anthony Roberts <anthony.roberts4@virgin.net> Reply-To: anthony.roberts4@virgin.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN711-003 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: genealogy@dutton.net Subject: a little info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My grandfather farmed at Hatton hall, 5 miles from Chester, nr tattenhall. the farm house was built on the site of an old moated manor house. the moat survived until recently. above the main door was a coat of arms that was reputed to have come from the old manor and bore the Dutton Arms. this site was reputed to have been once the ancient seat of the Duttons. At school 40 years ago there was a Dutton. His father farmed locally but alas we lost touch. --------------6DB695817B3--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1FA0524C575C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An interesting post from GEN-MED about genealogical proof. Carole --------------1FA0524C575C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by mail.midohio.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09859 for <malisiak@midohio.net>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16786; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 04:50:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 04:50:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990328125628.37bf3eda@pop6.ibm.net> X-Sender: lerwill@pop6.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:56:28 Old-To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com> From: John Lerwill <lerwill@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Mythical genealogy continued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jEI1oB.A.mFE.gWi_2"@bl-11.rootsweb.com> Resent-From: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/21825 X-Loop: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Errors-To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@rootsweb.com Resent-Sender: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@rootsweb.com (To those reading this, I apologise for the "yawn factor", but I do think there is an important point of principle here....) At 06:30 28/3/99 GMT, you (Stewart Baldwin) wrote: (the original statement): > >>At 19:08 26/3/99 GMT, sbald@auburn.campus.mci.net (Stewart Baldwin) wrote: > >>>The alleged connections of Joseph of Arimathea and Britain are all >>>medieval romance. There is no genuine history in those claims. >>> >>>Stewart Baldwin >>> My first reply: > >>My argument is simply that in making the statements "only medieval romance" >>and "there is no genuine history...." all avenues of possibility are broken >>off by implication. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- >I disagree with so much of what you say that it is hard to know where >to begin. Let's start with an analogy using the movie "Braveheart". <snip> >....... Why should it be any different when >the piece of entertainment being used (i.e., the Grail legend) is FAR >less real than even "Braveheart". FICTIONAL works, such as >"Braveheart" or the stories of the Grail legend, are totally >unacceptable as historical sources. I stand by original statement. > >Stewart Baldwin > If your original statement were to include "(in my opinion)", then I would have no (could not have) objection. You keep referring to "romance" and "fictional" as though it has been proven these "stories" were so. ELEMENTS of the Grail and "visit to these shores" story may be so, but not necessarily the essence of the story. You must surely know of many traditions that were passed by word of mouth over eons (an old and proven way of transmitting events.....and, yes, of errors also). There's an old saying, "there's no smoke without fire". Don't forget that it is generally accepted that Phoenicians came to Britain's shores in ancient times, so a ticket was available!! I wish I were in the position of quoting from my library (which is in storage), but I have, for example, to hand the recent book by Andrew Sinclair, The Discovery of the Grail, pub'd 1998, ISBN 0 7126 7729 1. Now it is possible that you may not regard him as sufficiently qualified as a serious writer, but, on the contrary, I find his books well researched. Yet another reference to the "visit to these shores" event, a reference made in many well-researched books. O.K., none can offer hard fact - but I have never said that they can. .......Equally, you CANNOT state that the "visit to these shores" event was "all medieval romance" as a categorical fact until you can prove that that is the case.......With so many serious writers referring to the matter, the door of serious possibility should be left open to all enquirers until proven otherwise. (On that last point - I remember being laughed at by a teacher at school for having the temerity to suggest that the continents of America, Europe and Africa were once joined up!!! - that, combined with other matters, put me off serious learning for another 20 years!!!!). John Lerwill. --------------1FA0524C575C--

Dear Doug, I use a PIM programme Tracker Maximizer 5.0 which comes bundled with a mapping programme called "AND Route 98 for Maximizer. I decided to try and place some of you Dutton Listers on the Map of America and in the course of my browsing I came across this list of Dutton place names: Dutton (AL) Dutton (AR) Dutton (IL) Dutton (MT) Dutton (OK) Dutton (VA) Dutton 23050 (VA) Dutton 35744 (AL) Dutton 59433 (MT) Dutton 62340 (IL) Dutton 72752 (AR) Dutton 73005 (OK) Dutton Mill (PA) Dutton Mill 19380 (PA) Dutton Place (AL) Dutton Place 35476 (AL) Dutton Still (FL) Dutton Still 33525 (FL) Duttonville (NJ) Duttonville 07827 (NJ) Some of them look duplicated, but nevertheless not a bad collection. I would appreciate it if anyone can add to this list (including Canada) as I would like to plan a "Dutton" tour through upper and lower Canada (or is that upper and lower USA? - we Papua New Guinean/Australians are not too good on geography) en route to Mike Dunton's planned "UK in Y2K". Cheers, Warren Dutton Kiunga Guest House Kiunga. W.P. Papua New Guinea ---------- > From: Doug Hall <doughall@mediaone.net> > To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Duttons in Geography > Date: Saturday, 27 March 1999 12:52 > > Hello all! > > My wife and I have started planning a brief week vacation trip to Northern > Arizona for late April. In lookin over the map of Arizona, I noticed a Mount > Dutton (11,040 feet) across the border in southwestern Utah. So that led me > to use my atlas to see if there were other places or geographic features > named Dutton. I found a town of Dutton in Ontario, right on the main route > between Detroit and Toronto. And I found another town of Dutton on the > plains of west central Montana. > > We know there is the tiny village of Dutton in Cheshire, England (not in my > atlas) and there is the crossroads of Duttons Mill in Aston, Chester County, > PA (also not in my atlas). > > Does anyone know of other geographic features or towns that have the name > Dutton? > > And after whom is Mount Dutton named? Do we have a line of Mormon Duttons > that settled in southern Utah that might account for that? > > Doug Hall >