This message was on another list but is a topic that is near and dear to me. I have emailed the list members about privacy in the past, and also discuss it at the family web site. Privacy is important. Please read the following message as it shows how you can be affected. Mike <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ The Dunton Family Homesite http://www.web-ster.com/miked list manager for dutton-l@rootsweb.com & dunton-l@rootsweb.com <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Millard Hawkins [mailto:cmp16wxk@gte.net] Sent: 17 August 1998 19:54 To: LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: 'Mind if I vent a little? (long but important) hi, I am new to this list. I have been contacted by someone I don't know asking about our line. I sent the info but on any living relatives I only gave a birth year. Do you think this is safe? Charlotte Hawkins Sparks, NV researching: John Francis DEWHURST b. 5/2/1813 in Durham Co. was married to Elizabeth BERYTY -----Original Message----- From: Pechmann <rpech@interlog.com> To: LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com <LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:16 AM Subject: 'Mind if I vent a little? (long but important) >Hello all, > >I have an interesting story to tell and I hope you are all taking >heed so that it doesn't happen to you. > >I have a cousin who caught the genealogy bug when he married >about a dozen years or so ago. The fact that he married a Mormon >and subsequently joined the church himself has enabled him access >to a wealth of information. > >Last week I received an e-mail from him directing me to a URL to >check out. On it he had listed the names of all of our ancestors >(we have records dating back to three digit years) as well as our >current family members. Imagine my surprise when I clicked on the >link to my own surname to find all my vital statistics there for >anyone to see. > >Not only that but he had recorded the vital statistics of all the >minor (ie under legal age) family members - including that of my >grandson who is only three and is in a position of needing >protection. The only records of parentage on this child are in >my personal possession for his safety's sake and now my cousin >has gone and spread it to the internet. He managed to get this >information from my elderly mother who loves to talk, thought she >was being helpful and has no idea of the modern computer age and >its implications - she has since been told. > >I saw RED! However, as politely as possible, I e-mailed him back >and asked him if he could kindly remove my information, just >leaving my name and perhaps my e-mail address in case anyone >wanted to contact me. > >He reacted by removing ALL of the genealogical information. >Grateful as I am that he has removed my own personal information, >I am now taking the heat for there not being any genealogical >information on any of my ancestors. Damned if I do, damned if I >don't, in other words. > >What upsets me the most though is that he has already sent along >this information to other places who now have it in their files. >I will never know where it is or who can access it. I am >terrified now for my grandson but what can I do? There are also >other family members as well who are involved in custody >situations where the broadcasting of their children's names can >be used against them, when they had no knowledge whatsoever that >it was even happening. There has been a mad scrambling to family >lawyers this past week I can tell you! > >On top of that, quite a bit of the information that he had on >myself and my siblings etc. is genealogically incorrect anyway as >he went on assumptions based on what he personally perceived as >nicknames (ie: my husband's name is now down on record as being >something that never has been his name, my daughter's and >sister's names are incorrect etc.). He never once bothered to ask >me or any of my siblings etc. to look over the info to see if it >was correct, or even to ask permission to broadcast it. I wonder >too what all the other family members who were listed and don't >know about it would think. I know that if my in-laws ever find >out that he has spread their info far and wide..... heaven help >me > >It has caused a major rift in the family now as he feels it is >his right to do this thing and how DARE we question it. Even with >explanations he doesn't see what the fuss is about. > >There is nothing now that we can do but hope for the best. We >know the LDS is the first place he would have sent all the info - >hopefully they will have more common sense than to allow the >records of those people on the list who are still living to be >accessed. > >I just wanted to post this to the list a) to try and get it off >my chest a bit but b) to try and make those of you doing >genealogy on the internet aware of the domino effect and to >think about the implications of what you may be doing. They can >be far more damaging than just somebody finding out your age. > >Please take note and don't let it happen to you. > > > >==== LANCSGEN Mailing List ==== >The Lancashire Look-up Exchange Page can be found at: > >http://members.aol.com/mn1native/Lancslookups/lancs.htm
Hi all DUTTON researchers, I don't own any Aladin stock or have any other interest in the company. My main interest is in helping those with whom I have tried to exchange files and who have had problems of compression and decompression. The price is right on the two programs discussed below - one is FREE and the other is $20 shareware. You can even do without the shareware one - it is merely "nice to have" but Aladdin Expander could be a real lifesaver. Dick Dutton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Just StuffIt, Windows --------------------- by Adam C. Engst <ace@tidbits.com> One of the problems with sharing files between Macs and PCs is they use different compression and encoding formats. Macs generally use the StuffIt format for compression, whereas PCs use Zip. Macs often use BinHex for encoding files for email, but PCs are more likely to use uuencode. Since we Mac users are in the minority, our tools have had to be better. Thanks to Aladdin's StuffIt Expander and a wide variety of other tools (often available for free), it's usually easy for us to deal with Zip archives, uuencoded files, or even a wide variety of Unix file formats. In the PC world, however, tools support Macintosh formats less frequently, so good luck if you're using a PC and need to snag a folder of Microsoft Word files that have been compressed with StuffIt and then binhexed. Now, thanks to Aladdin Expander 2.0 for Windows and Aladdin DropStuff 1.0 for Windows, we Macintosh users can work with the file formats we're used to and which we already use. **Aladdin Expander 2.0** -- Like its Macintosh relative, StuffIt Expander, Aladdin Expander is totally free, and it is available as a 1.2 MB self-extracting archive from the Aladdin Web site. <http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/> Once installed, it creates a shortcut on your Windows desktop onto which you can drop files compressed and encoded in a variety of formats, including StuffIt (.sit), Zip (.zip), uuencode (.uue), BinHex (.hqx), MacBinary (.bin), ARC (.arc), Arj (.arj), and gzip (.gz), plus self-extracting archives created by StuffIt, Zip, and Arj. Aladdin Expander supports long file names, decodes MIME files, decrypts files encrypted with Aladdin's Private File encryption utility (also cross-platform), and joins StuffIt- segmented archives. <http://www.aladdinsys.com/privatefile/> Although drag & drop is the way that most Macintosh users would think of interacting with Aladdin Expander, you can also drag & drop into Aladdin Expander's window, or use its menus or toolbar. More interestingly, you can right-click a file, then choose either Expand or Expand with Options from the pop-up menu that appears. Aladdin Expander's options provide functionality similar to StuffIt Expander's, with a few interesting tweaks accessible via the More button in the Options dialog. A cross-platform tab provides controls that enable Aladdin Expander to convert text files to Windows format, save Macintosh-specific files (those with resource forks that would otherwise be lost) in MacBinary format, and add file name extensions based on the file's type and creator. These features prove extremely useful, since they save you the trouble of converting Macintosh text files to Windows format separately and properly identifying files that lack filename extensions. The option to save Macintosh files in MacBinary format is also handy, since you can expand a StuffIt archive, then move an application, say, back to the Macintosh without destroying it. **Aladdin DropStuff 1.0** -- As you might guess from the version number, Aladdin Expander isn't new. However, Aladdin DropStuff 1.0 is new and mimics the functionality of the Macintosh DropStuff with Expander Enhancer. You can download a 1.1 MB self-extracting archive from Aladdin's Web site. Aladdin DropStuff is $20 shareware, although TidBITS sponsor Digital River is offering it to TidBITS readers for $14.95 through the link in the sponsorship area at the top of this issue. <http://www.aladdinsys.com/dropstuff/winindex.html> Compressing one or more files with DropStuff works via drag & drop as you'd expect, although you can also drag & drop into its window, use the menus or toolbar, or right-click a file and choose an appropriate method of compressing from the pop-up menu. Aladdin DropStuff offers a few unusual features. If you have Windows Messaging installed, you can Stuff and Mail one or more files with a single command; similarly, the Stuff and Send To command enables you to send the resulting StuffIt file to a variety of different places in Windows. Finally, since Zip files are the standard in Windows, Aladdin DropStuff can create them as well (and I've found DropStuff easier than other Windows Zip utilities). A nice touch in Aladdin DropStuff is that Aladdin mapped Control-Q to Exit; unfortunately Aladdin Expander lacks a similar keyboard shortcut. I prefer Windows applications that follow Macintosh conventions for keyboard shortcuts - give me Control-Q over the meaningless Alt-F4. **Finally, We Can Stuff Windows** -- In my use so far, I've found that the easiest way to use these utilities is through the contextual menus available when you right-click a file. That's partly because I'm used to a lot more screen real estate on my Mac, and the desktop shortcuts are often obscured by other windows. I'm mainly grateful that we have these utilities - if you regularly work with Macs and the occasional PC, especially via the Internet, you need Aladdin Expander and Aladdin DropStuff. ------------------------End of message------------------------------
Hi All, I can now send the family coat-of-arms as a compressed attachment to an e-mail message in either black & white or color in a variety of formats: EPS, PICT, TIFF, JPEG, GIF, PhotoShop, Illustrator, & I can "probably" convert it to most of the others. If you would like one of these let me know which one and what computer operating system you use. Dick Dutton Researching my family tree! Trunk: DUTTON Major branches: ALLEN, BARTLETT, CUTLER, DOGGETT, DUNTEN, DUNTON, JENSON, LAKE, METCALF, PARTRIDGE, REYNOLDS, RICHARDS, SAWYER, SMITH, TRACY, TURNER. Minor branches: ADAMS, ALDEN, BALL, BLACK, BLANCHARD, BREWSTER, BRIMHALL, CARY, COLBURN, HATCH, HOPKINS, HYDE, KIDDER, PERKINS, WARNER, WILLIAMS. Smaller Limbs: ALGER, ANDERSON, CLARK, DAVIS, FRENCH, FULLER, HALL, HARRIS, JOHNSON, KNAPP, McMILLAN, MERRICK, MILLER, MOORE, NELSON PARKER, TUTTLE - And many more.
Dear Carole, I went through the quest that you are working through around the end of 1996, detect your frustration, and wanted to offer how I have personally resolved this. I am sharing this with the list since I believe that others have gone through the same search or are doing it right now. The web site that you reference below, along with several others that I found, are listed in the Cousin Connection of the Library section of the web site [The Dunton Homesite]. Regarding the information at LaFaye's site, she replied back to me (abt Dec 1996) to tell me that the information was submitted or provided by someone else. It was not her original research. Regarding Cope, I was warned, early on in my genealogical quest some years back, to take his work with a grain of salt. Perhaps as you would treat a piece of family lore. Use it as a possible path to research. Regarding documentation, as you have discovered, the farther back in time that you go, the more difficult it becomes to accurately document. As a family, we are certainly blessed that we can accurately "prove" ancestry into the 1600s. I know many people (and personally have a couple of family lines) that cannot get back prior to Great-grandparents. The family database that I maintain, does include the early Dutton lineage's, but whenever I discuss them with anyone, I qualify that only the actual research that I have done, or that which I have copies of documentation in the archive for, are considered to be proven. The information that you find on the Internet is no different. When I posted The Dunton Homesite in 1996, there were only two other locations (that I could find) that had Dutton or Dunton information -- LaFaye's (which you listed) and Patrick Janis' [http://www.genealogy.org/~czech/index.html]. Now there are quite a few cousins who have posted genealogies -- different variations on the same theme. Ultimately, the source materials are the same -- "Memorials to the Duttons of Dutton, Cheshire", Gilbert Cope, David Douglas, etc. Realize that these "sources" are secondary at best. How it is interpreted and reported, adds yet another chance for error. Anyway, I say this all not to discourage, but to encourage. We have a rich heritage irregardless of the precision of our connection to these ancient times. We know that we would not be here if we did not. I will continue to pursue fact, but I have also become comfortable knowing that my ancestors, lived in those times and places, and had some connection with these people. Perhaps we will never find inconclusive documentation . . . short of genetic testing. This is just my opinion :) Mike Dunton <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ The Dunton Family Homesite http://www.web-ster.com/miked list manager for dutton-l@rootsweb.com & dunton-l@rootsweb.com <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 1998 3:14 PM To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: FSA, Dukes and Counts Hi all, I wrote to a young fella on the web who has posted a relationship to Odard (not a Dutton) and the response I received was that FSA probably stands for "Fellow of the Society of Antiquarians" Subject #2 I, personally, am having great difficulty accepting, as is, the family connections to the Dukes of Normandy because of relationship problems. I have graphed the data from Curt Rowe's web page (and David Douglas) from Richard I to the Conqueror. This results in William 4th Count of Eu being a cousin to Wm the Conq. and Odard being a cousin to Hugh d'Avranches. If Cope is correct on page 12 he says Wm the Conqueror is their great Uncle, then this cannot be a correct listing. And when I add in the ancestors of Hugh Lupus, then Helisende is an Aunt to Hugh and cousins with Odard. This is all wrong, if Cope is correct!!! Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 1) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 1) Richard II, the Good 1 Toustein le Goz + Judith 2) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 2) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 2 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 3) Wm, 4th Count of Eu 3) Wm, the Conqueror 3 Emma de Conteville m. m. Helisende d'Avranches Richard d/Avranches 4) Odard 4 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches I also looked at Hull's data. Boy! Brian Thompsett is somethng else! First of all, he reports that Emma de Conteville is fictitious. Since she was supposed to be married to Richard d'Avranches, and since Hugh Lupus d'Avranches and Helisende d'Avranches were their children, I have a problem with this! So, Thompsett was no help at all! I found another web page where everything makes sense with Gilbert Cope. It is, of course, undocumented, but at least everything goes together according to Cope. http://www.empirenet.com/~lafaye/d0001/g0000091.html#I1508 The only difference between the above page and (David Douglas and Curt Rowe) is that William the 2nd Count of Eu is the son of Richard II instead of Richard I. This shifts all the relationships down one generation on the Eu side and makes Odard the nephew of Hugh Lupus and the great grandson of the Conqueror!! This would be great if I could document it! I have written the author for the sources! (I hope my charts come out right!) 1) Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 2) Richard II, the Good 3) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 3) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 3 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 4) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 4) Wm, the Conqueror 4 Emma de Conteville m. 5) Wm, 4th Count of Eu Richard d/Avranches m. Helisende d'Avranches 5 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches 6) Odard Carole Dutton Malisiak
Hi all, I wrote to a young fella on the web who has posted a relationship to Odard (not a Dutton) and the response I received was that FSA probably stands for "Fellow of the Society of Antiquarians" Subject #2 I, personally, am having great difficulty accepting, as is, the family connections to the Dukes of Normandy because of relationship problems. I have graphed the data from Curt Rowe's web page (and David Douglas) from Richard I to the Conqueror. This results in William 4th Count of Eu being a cousin to Wm the Conq. and Odard being a cousin to Hugh d'Avranches. If Cope is correct on page 12 he says Wm the Conqueror is their great Uncle, then this cannot be a correct listing. And when I add in the ancestors of Hugh Lupus, then Helisende is an Aunt to Hugh and cousins with Odard. This is all wrong, if Cope is correct!!! Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 1) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 1) Richard II, the Good 1 Toustein le Goz + Judith 2) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 2) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 2 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 3) Wm, 4th Count of Eu 3) Wm, the Conqueror 3 Emma de Conteville m. m. Helisende d'Avranches Richard d/Avranches 4) Odard 4 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches I also looked at Hull's data. Boy! Brian Thompsett is somethng else! First of all, he reports that Emma de Conteville is fictitious. Since she was supposed to be married to Richard d'Avranches, and since Hugh Lupus d'Avranches and Helisende d'Avranches were their children, I have a problem with this! So, Thompsett was no help at all! I found another web page where everything makes sense with Gilbert Cope. It is, of course, undocumented, but at least everything goes together according to Cope. http://www.empirenet.com/~lafaye/d0001/g0000091.html#I1508 The only difference between the above page and (David Douglas and Curt Rowe) is that William the 2nd Count of Eu is the son of Richard II instead of Richard I. This shifts all the relationships down one generation on the Eu side and makes Odard the nephew of Hugh Lupus and the great grandson of the Conqueror!! This would be great if I could document it! I have written the author for the sources! (I hope my charts come out right!) 1) Richard I and Gunnor de Crepon 2) Richard II, the Good 3) Wm, 2nd Count of Eu 3) Robert I & Herleve de Falaise 3 Herluin, Viscounte de Conteville m Herleve de Falaise 4) Robert, 3rd Count of Eu 4) Wm, the Conqueror 4 Emma de Conteville m. 5) Wm, 4th Count of Eu Richard d/Avranches m. Helisende d'Avranches 5 Hugh Lupus d'Avranches 6) Odard Carole Dutton Malisiak
Hello everyone, I have just joined this list. Please excuse me, but I may be taking a bit of a liberty here. As yet I do not have any DUTTON connections, but as the DUTTON name changed to WARBURTON when a branch of the family moved to Warburton in Cheshire during the 13th century, if I can connect my WARBURTON's to the WARBURTON's of Arley and Warburton, I will therefore also be connected to the DUTTON's. All my WARBURTON's come from Lancashire, but I have found out that the coat of arms for the Lancashire WARBURTON's is the same as the Cheshire one, except that the cormorants are red instead of black. I think that it is therefore reasonably safe to assume that the Lancashire branch descended from the Cheshire branch, especially as Warburton is right on the border with Lancashire. If anybody can help me with the connection between the two I would be greatful. Please accept my apologies for the length of this message. Regards, Nick Descendants of Thomas WARBURTON - 15 Aug 1998 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- FIRST GENERATION 1. Thomas WARBURTON died after 1559. He was a Gentleman. He has reference number E5..-231. He was married to Unknown UNKNOWN. Unknown UNKNOWN has reference number E5..-.... Thomas WARBURTON and Unknown UNKNOWN had the following children: +2 i. Francis WARBURTON. SECOND GENERATION 2. Francis WARBURTON died before 1559. He has reference number F5..-231. He was married to Ann UNKNOWN. Ann UNKNOWN has reference number F5..-.... Francis WARBURTON and Ann UNKNOWN had the following children: +3 i. Thomas WARBURTON. THIRD GENERATION 3. Thomas WARBURTON was born before 1558. He died about 1634. He has reference number G6..-231. He was married to Unknown UNKNOWN. Unknown UNKNOWN has reference number G6..-.... Thomas WARBURTON and Unknown UNKNOWN had the following children: +4 i. Francis WARBURTON. FOURTH GENERATION 4. Francis WARBURTON died before 1660. He was a Gentleman. He has reference number H6..-231. He was married to Margaret UNKNOWN. Margaret UNKNOWN has reference number H6..-.... Francis WARBURTON and Margaret UNKNOWN had the following children: +5 i. Thomas WARBURTON. +6 ii. John WARBURTON. +7 iii. Margaret WARBURTON. FIFTH GENERATION 5. Thomas WARBURTON has reference number I6..-231. He was married to Alice UNKNOWN. Alice UNKNOWN died after 1651. 6. John WARBURTON was born about 1637. He was a Clerk (Priest). He has reference number I63.-231. He was married to Katherine RAMSBOTHAM. Katherine RAMSBOTHAM was born about 1637. She has reference number I63.-362. John WARBURTON and Katherine RAMSBOTHAM had the following children: 8 i. Thomas WARBURTON was born about 1658. He has reference number J6..-231. 9 ii. John WARBURTON was born about 1660. He has reference number J68.-231. +10 iii. Peter WARBURTON. 7. Margaret WARBURTON has reference number I6..-232. She was married to Thomas BROWNE. Thomas BROWNE was a Gentleman. He has reference number I6..-.... SIXTH GENERATION 10. Peter WARBURTON was born about 1665 in Ramsbottom, Lancs.. He died on 24 Feb 1737 in Stubbins Lane, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was buried on 26 Feb 1737 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. He was a Clothier. He has reference number J664-231. He was married to Mary UNKNOWN. Mary UNKNOWN was born about 1668. She died on 6 Dec 1750 in Holcombe, LAN. She was buried on 8 Dec 1750 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. She has reference number J671-.... Peter WARBURTON and Mary UNKNOWN had the following children: +11 i. John WARBURTON. +12 ii. Thomas WARBURTON. SEVENTH GENERATION 11. John WARBURTON was born about 1693. He died on 27 Apr 1754 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He was buried on 28 Apr 1754 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. He has reference number K693-231. He was married to Anne UNKNOWN. Anne UNKNOWN was born about 1697. She died on 23 Apr 1750 in Holcombe, LAN. She was buried on 23 Apr 1750 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. John WARBURTON and Anne UNKNOWN had the following children: +13 i. Peter WARBURTON. 12. Thomas WARBURTON was born about 1703. He died in Oct 1763 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was buried on 19 Oct 1763 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. He has reference number K703-231. He was married to Martha UNKNOWN. Martha UNKNOWN was born about 1698. She died in Jul 1774 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was buried on 26 Jul 1774 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. She has reference number K698-.... Thomas WARBURTON and Martha UNKNOWN had the following children: +14 i. Peter WARBURTON. +15 ii. John WARBURTON. EIGHTH GENERATION 13. Peter WARBURTON was born about 1720. He died on 7 Feb 1757 in Holcombe, LAN. He was buried on 8 Feb 1757 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. He was married to Unknown UNKNOWN. 14. Peter WARBURTON was born on 1 Feb 1732 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 11 Feb 1732 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He died on 10 Nov 1810 in Ramsbottom Lane, Holcombe, LAN. He was buried on 13 Nov 1810 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. He has reference number L732-231. He was married to Betty UNKNOWN. Betty UNKNOWN was born about 1731. She died on 27 Feb 1821 in Holcombe, Lancs.. She has reference number L73.-.... Peter WARBURTON and Betty UNKNOWN had the following children: 16 i. John WARBURTON was born in 1759 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 11 Mar 1759 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He has reference number M759-231. 17 ii. Martha WARBURTON was born in Nov 1760 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 29 Nov 1760 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number M760-232. +18 iii. Thomas WARBURTON. 19 iv. Peter WARBURTON was born in Oct 1765 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 27 Oct 1765 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He has reference number M765-231. 20 v. James WARBURTON was born about 1765. He died on 10 Mar 1823 in Holcombe, Lancs.. He was an Emp. by John KAY for 40yr. 21 vi. Mary WARBURTON was born in Nov 1768 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 20 Nov 1768 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number M768-232. 22 vii. Peter WARBURTON was born in Mar 1771 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 29 Mar 1771 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He has reference number M771-231. 23 viii. Betty WARBURTON was born in Jan 1774 in Hencock, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 26 Jan 1774 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number M774-232. 15. John WARBURTON was a Carpenter. He was married to Betty UNKNOWN. Betty UNKNOWN was born about 1746. She died on 19 Sep 1821 in Holcombe, Lancs.. NINTH GENERATION 18. Thomas WARBURTON was born about 1763 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 9 Jan 1763 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He died in Jul 1810. He was buried in Holcombe, Lancs.. He has reference number M763-231. He was married to Millicent UNKNOWN. Millicent UNKNOWN was born in 1761. She died in Apr 1794 in Holcombe, LAN. She was buried on 17 Apr 1794 in Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, LAN. She has reference number M76.-.... Thomas WARBURTON and Millicent UNKNOWN had the following children: 24 i. Betty WARBURTON was born on 5 May 1788 in Carr, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 1 Jun 1788 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number N788-232. +25 ii. John WARBURTON. TENTH GENERATION 25. John WARBURTON was born on 2 Nov 1790 in Carr, Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 20 Nov 1790 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He died -- ___ 1883 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He was buried -- ___ 1883 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He was a Cotton Manufacturer. He has reference number N790-231. He was married to Susan UNKNOWN. Susan UNKNOWN was born about 1792 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She died after 1873. She has reference number N792-.... John WARBURTON and Susan UNKNOWN had the following children: +26 i. Thomas WARBURTON. 27 ii. Betty WARBURTON was born in 1815 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 24 Jun 1815 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She died in Nov 1906 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number O815-232. 28 iii. Milly WARBURTON was born in 1819 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 4 Apr 1819 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number O819-232. +29 iv. Millison WARBURTON. 30 v. Susan WARBURTON was born on 5 Nov 1825 in Hardsough, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 15 Jan 1826 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She died on 4 May 1841. She was buried on 8 May 1841 in Edenfield Church, Lancs.. She has reference number O825-232. +31 vi. Jane WARBURTON. +32 vii. John WARBURTON. 33 viii. Matilda WARBURTON was born about 1837 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She died in Oct 1856. She was buried on 11 Oct 1856 in Edenfield Church, Lancs.. She has reference number O837-232. ELEVENTH GENERATION 26. Thomas WARBURTON was born in Dec 1812 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He was baptised on 13 Dec 1812 in Edenfield, Lancs.. He was a Cotton Spinner. He has reference number O812-231. He was married to Catherine ECCLES on 14 Jul 1833 in Bury, Lancs.. Catherine ECCLES was born about 1813 in Chorley, Lancs.. She died in Feb 1886 in Vine House, Haslingden, Lancs.. She was buried on 11 Feb 1886 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number O813-302. Thomas WARBURTON and Catherine ECCLES had the following children: +34 i. Betty WARBURTON. +35 ii. John WARBURTON. 36 iii. Susannah WARBURTON was born in Oct 1837 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She died in Dec 1837 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She was buried on 27 Dec 1837 in St. James, Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number P837-232. 37 iv. James WARBURTON was born about 1839. He died in Apr 1840 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He was buried on 26 Apr 1840 in St. James, Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number P839-231. +38 v. Thomas WARBURTON. +39 vi. Susan WARBURTON. +40 vii. Catharine WARBURTON. +41 viii. Albert WARBURTON. 42 ix. Sarah Ann WARBURTON was born about 1855 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number P855-232. 29. Millison WARBURTON was born in 1823 in Pinfold, Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 2 Mar 1823 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number O823-232. She was married to John BUTTERWORTH. John BUTTERWORTH was a Waste Dealer. He was born in Bury. 31. Jane WARBURTON was born on 17 May 1828 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She was baptised on 7 Sep 1828 in Edenfield, Lancs.. She has reference number O828-232. She was married to Joseph MAXWELL. Joseph MAXWELL was a Waste Dealer. 32. John WARBURTON was born about 1832 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He died on 10 May 1894 in Greenfield, Haslingden. He was buried on 15 May 1894 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number O832-231. He was married to Martha LORD. John WARBURTON and Martha LORD had the following children: 43 i. Fred Lord WARBURTON was buried in Musbury Church. 44 ii. Frank Lord WARBURTON was buried in Musbury Church. TWELFTH GENERATION 34. Betty WARBURTON was born about 1835 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number P835-232. She was married to Thomas BARNES. Thomas BARNES was born about 1835 in Hutchbank, Haslingden, Lancs.. 35. John WARBURTON was born about 1836 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He was a Cotton Manufacturer. He has reference number P836-231. He was married to Mary Anne LUND about 1856. Mary Anne LUND was born about 1836. John WARBURTON and Mary Anne LUND had the following children: 45 i. Robert Lund WARBURTON died on 8 Nov 1862 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He was buried on 12 Nov 1862 in St. James, Haslingden, Lancs.. He was married to Harriet BRADBURN. Harriet BRADBURN was born about 1836 in Cheshire. John WARBURTON and Harriet BRADBURN had the following children: 46 i. Thomas Eccles WARBURTON. 47 ii. Samuel WARBURTON. 38. Thomas WARBURTON was born about 1842 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number P842-231. He was married to Jane ISHERWOOD. 39. Susan WARBURTON was born on 6 May 1846 in Flash Mill, Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number P846-232. She was married to George HARGREAVES (son of Thomas HARGREAVES and Elizabeth SCHOLES) on 12 Jun 1871 in Holy Trinity, Bispham, Lancs.. George HARGREAVES was born on 8 Apr 1847 in Well Meadow, Haslingden, Lancs.. He died about 1911 in Blackpool, Lancs.. He was a Cotton Manufacturer. He has reference number P847-031. Susan WARBURTON and George HARGREAVES had the following children: 48 i. Albert Henry HARGREAVES was born about 1872 in Blackpool, Lancs.. He was a Company Director. He died in Blackpool, Lancs.. He was buried in Holy Trinity, South Shore, Blackpool. He has reference number Q872-031. +49 ii. Thomas Ernest HARGREAVES. +50 iii. George Leopold HARGREAVES. 51 iv. A. Douglas HARGREAVES was a Commercial Traveller. 40. Catharine WARBURTON was born about 1848 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number P848-232. She was married to Richard Fell HINDLE. Catharine WARBURTON and Richard Fell HINDLE had the following children: 52 i. Thomas Warburton HINDLE. 41. Albert WARBURTON was born about 1850 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He died in Jan 1922 in Vine House, Haslingden, Lancs.. He was buried on 21 Jan 1922 in St. James, Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number P850-231. He was married to Kathleen C. UNKNOWN about 1880. Kathleen C. UNKNOWN was born about 1854 in Ireland.. She has reference number P854-.... Albert WARBURTON and Kathleen C. UNKNOWN had the following children: 53 i. Thomas WARBURTON was born about 1883 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number Q883-231. 54 ii. Albert WARBURTON was born about 1885 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number Q885-231. 55 iii. George Victor WARBURTON was born about 1888 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number Q888-231. 56 iv. Flora Marguerite WARBURTON was born about 1890 in Haslingden, Lancs.. She has reference number Q890-232. 57 v. Harold WARBURTON was born about 1892 in Haslingden, Lancs.. He has reference number Q892-231. >From the Roman Fortress of 'Deva.' Nicolas Blackhurst, 12, Hatton Road, Blacon, Chester CH1 5ED, Cheshire, England Telephone: 01244 374697 Web Site: http://freespace.virgin.net/nicolas.blackhurst/homepage.htm e-mail: nicolas.blackhurst@virgin.net
Dear Mr. Pound, Thanks for taking the time for forwarding that information onto the list. It is refreshing to have "current events" interspersed with our genealogical conversations. Regards, Mike Dunton <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ The Dunton Family Homesite http://www.web-ster.com/miked list manager for dutton-l@rootsweb.com & dunton-l@rootsweb.com <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Wwpcs@aol.com [mailto:Wwpcs@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 11:39 PM To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Gilbert Dutton, WWI Hero MALVERN GAZETTE , Friday August 7th 1998 (Malvern Worcestershire, England) "Medal Arrives 80 years too late" "A Malvern man's battle for his fathers First World War medal ended this week when it dropped through his letter box - 80 years late. Frank Dutton's three year campaign to have the medal awarded began after his family history research revealed his father should have receieved the 1914-15 Star. His father Gilbert Dutton joined the Life Guards shortly after the outbreak of war on december 3, 1914, following his elder brother William, who had enlisted a week earlier. The two, aged 22 and 25, trained together and were posted in France on the same ship...both were...involved in the battle if Loos in September 1915 where William was killed in action. William who has no known grave, was subsequently awarded a posthumous 1914-15 Star. Gilbert Miraculously survived the entire war and in 1922 received the British War and Victory Medals. He married, raised a family of two sons and two daughters, amd died in Malvern Link in 1973 aged 80. Mr Dutton said he assumed his uncle had been awarded the 1914-15 Star because he had beein killed in action, but his research revealed the medal had been given to all ranks who served in the theatre of war between August 5, 1914 and December 31st 1915...Mr Dutton realised his father should also have had the medal abd was determined to find an end to the story, which proved to be an expensive business. Two search fess later, he was able to appraoch the Amry Medal Office with documentary evidence from the PRO, at Kew to support his claim. After some weeks he received a brief letter informing him that "the 1914-15 Star, engraved as Tpr G.C.Dutton L Gds, is now avaliable for issue, free of charge to the next of kin. And this week the medal itself dropped through the letter box. "There was no hint of and apology for the arrival of the award almost 80 years late" said Mr Dutton. ____________________________________________________________________ Regards to all on the list, John Wedgwood Pound Worcester, England http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3203/
Well our posts are crossing in the ether. From "The Real Welcome Passengers": The next news of the Welcome was from the London Gazette. The story was datelined Deal, September 2, and reported that "two days since" three ships had sailed for Pennsylvania, "on board [one] of which was William Penn." It did not name the ships, and the others may have been small cargo boats or two of the many ships for Maryland or Virginia. The geography of the New World was still vague to the news writers of the period, who sometimes referred to Pennsylvania as an island. The Welcome, then, left late on the 30th or the 31st and stopped somewhere along the Channel coast to take on more food and water, perhaps even to pick up more passengers. Penn wrote that it was two weeks before they saw the last of England, six more before they sighted land in America. Eight weeks - always counting from the Downs - was an average time for the crossing against the prevailing westerly winds, although a month later the Jeffrey from London took only twenty-nine days. > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Hall [mailto:doughall@mail.tds.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:47 PM > To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com > Cc: DUTTON-L > Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists > > > Curt, > > If the Welcome didn't arrive until October 27, 1682, then John Dutton must > not have been on it. The laying out of the land to him occurred on October > 8. That would not have occurred if he were still at sea. Thus > either (1) he > arrived before the Welcome on some other ship or (2) the Welcome > arrived in > Pa somewhat earlier, such as Mary Harris date of August 1682. > > There may be some confusion on the arrival date because one needs to > consider WHERE it arrived. I may be wrong - my history material isn't in > front of me here - but I recall the Welcome first landed in > Chester, Pa, and > only sailed up the river further to the place that was to become > Philadelphia later. Maybe it landed in Chester in August and John > Dutton and > others disembarked for the land they had been granted in that area and it > went upriver to Philadelphia with the remaining passengers only after some > time. Thus, the arrival in Phialdelphia could be a different date, even > different month. That would also explain how passenger lists attributed to > people writing about Philadelphia history did not include John Dutton. He > had gotten off the boat before it ever arrived in Philadelphia! > > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Rowe <curtrowe@ix.netcom.com> > To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:04 PM > Subject: RE: Ship Passenger Lists > > > >Perhaps the web site intended to say that the Welcome sailed in August of > >1682, which was the case. Balderston has it arriving 27 Oct > 1682 while E. > >B. Cowgill says in the first weeks of November. > > > >It is likely that E. B. Cowgill compiled the list by taking the word of > some > >that their ancestors arrived on the Welcome. As with the Battle of > >Hastings, many people would like to believe in some famous association. > >After a few generations wishful thinking becomes fact. > > > >There was a belief on my mothers side that our Bartlett ancestor was > >descended from Robert Bartlett of Mayflower fame and Josiah Bartlett who > >signed the Declaration of Independence. This is not possible > since the two > >Bartletts are of different lines. I'm not positive of the link to Robert > >Bartlett either. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:52 PM > >> To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com > >> Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists > >> > >> > >> Hi Curt, > >> > >> Thanks for the information. I have written to Mary Harris in PA to > >> inquire if they put all their ships lists up on the web, yet. She has > >> the Welcome arriving in August, 1682, and you tell me that the ship > >> arrived in November, 1682. The ship could've come back in November and > >> Mary just doesn't have it uploaded yet or maybe she just doesn't have > >> the passenger lists from ALL the ships. > >> > >> Re: Marion Balderston. I don't understand (maybe I'm naieve!) why > >> anyone would make up a bogus passenger list. If they are on the list, > >> that's good enough for me even if we do not understand why they'd go to > >> London instead of Liverpool to board a ship. > >> > >> Thanks again, for your help, > >> Carole Dutton Malisiak > >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > >> > >> > Side 2: > >> > "October the 8th 1682 > >> > Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland > >> Creek beginning > >> > at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW > >> into the woods > >> > 565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked > >> White Oak > >> > from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by > >> Upland Creek from > >> > there along the Creek side on several courses to the first > Corner tree. > >> > by me Charles Ashcome > >> > A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" > >> > >> > I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when > >> his land was > >> > laid out, but I don't think it is likely. > >> > > >> > A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome > >> which arrived > >> > at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers > is > >> > from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real > Welcome > >> > Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be > >> on the welcome > >> > are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on > the > >> > Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues > >> that they would > >> > not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when > >> they could have > >> > boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. > >> > > > > > >
Curt, If the Welcome didn't arrive until October 27, 1682, then John Dutton must not have been on it. The laying out of the land to him occurred on October 8. That would not have occurred if he were still at sea. Thus either (1) he arrived before the Welcome on some other ship or (2) the Welcome arrived in Pa somewhat earlier, such as Mary Harris date of August 1682. There may be some confusion on the arrival date because one needs to consider WHERE it arrived. I may be wrong - my history material isn't in front of me here - but I recall the Welcome first landed in Chester, Pa, and only sailed up the river further to the place that was to become Philadelphia later. Maybe it landed in Chester in August and John Dutton and others disembarked for the land they had been granted in that area and it went upriver to Philadelphia with the remaining passengers only after some time. Thus, the arrival in Phialdelphia could be a different date, even different month. That would also explain how passenger lists attributed to people writing about Philadelphia history did not include John Dutton. He had gotten off the boat before it ever arrived in Philadelphia! Doug -----Original Message----- From: Curt Rowe <curtrowe@ix.netcom.com> To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:04 PM Subject: RE: Ship Passenger Lists >Perhaps the web site intended to say that the Welcome sailed in August of >1682, which was the case. Balderston has it arriving 27 Oct 1682 while E. >B. Cowgill says in the first weeks of November. > >It is likely that E. B. Cowgill compiled the list by taking the word of some >that their ancestors arrived on the Welcome. As with the Battle of >Hastings, many people would like to believe in some famous association. >After a few generations wishful thinking becomes fact. > >There was a belief on my mothers side that our Bartlett ancestor was >descended from Robert Bartlett of Mayflower fame and Josiah Bartlett who >signed the Declaration of Independence. This is not possible since the two >Bartletts are of different lines. I'm not positive of the link to Robert >Bartlett either. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:52 PM >> To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists >> >> >> Hi Curt, >> >> Thanks for the information. I have written to Mary Harris in PA to >> inquire if they put all their ships lists up on the web, yet. She has >> the Welcome arriving in August, 1682, and you tell me that the ship >> arrived in November, 1682. The ship could've come back in November and >> Mary just doesn't have it uploaded yet or maybe she just doesn't have >> the passenger lists from ALL the ships. >> >> Re: Marion Balderston. I don't understand (maybe I'm naieve!) why >> anyone would make up a bogus passenger list. If they are on the list, >> that's good enough for me even if we do not understand why they'd go to >> London instead of Liverpool to board a ship. >> >> Thanks again, for your help, >> Carole Dutton Malisiak >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >> >> > Side 2: >> > "October the 8th 1682 >> > Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland >> Creek beginning >> > at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW >> into the woods >> > 565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked >> White Oak >> > from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by >> Upland Creek from >> > there along the Creek side on several courses to the first Corner tree. >> > by me Charles Ashcome >> > A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" >> >> > I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when >> his land was >> > laid out, but I don't think it is likely. >> > >> > A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome >> which arrived >> > at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers is >> > from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real Welcome >> > Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be >> on the welcome >> > are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on the >> > Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues >> that they would >> > not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when >> they could have >> > boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. >> > >
Yes, Curt. I am certain that John Dutton was in Pennsylvania at the time his land was laid out. That means he was in Pa by October 1682. And I do not believe he departed for Pa before William Penn sold land to Thomas Rowland in March of 1681. That sale is described in a subsequent Dutton deed of 1712 as "WHEREAS by virtue of certain Deeds of Lease & Release Bearing Date on or about the Second & Third days of the first month called March in the Year 1681(?) made between the Honourable William Penn Esq. Proprietary and Governour of the sd Province of the one part and Thomas Rowland of the County Palatine of Chester in the Kingdom of Great Brittain afore sd of the other part for the consideration therein mentioned did grant & confirm unto the sd Thomas Rowland One Thousand Acres of Land in the sd Province of Pensilvania..." Half of this 1000 acres was subsequently sold to John Dutton in May 1682: "sd Thomas Rowland One Thousand Acres of Land in the sd Province of Pensilvania as by the sd Deeds Refferrence thereunto being had may at large appear AND WHEREAS the sd Thomas Rowland By his Indenture Bearing Date the two & Twentieth day of the third month called May in the thirty fourth year of the Reign of King Charles the Second over England &c. Annoque Domini 1682 did Bargain & Sell for the consideration therein mentioned unto John Dutton late of Aston " It was then laid out in October. When the Penn/Rowland sale was made in 1681 I am certain that Penn, Rowland, and Dutton were all still in Cheshire, England. I also believe (but am not as sure) that the Rowland/Dutton sale took place when both were still in Cheshire, England. I believe John Dutton sailed for Pa only after obtaining the deed to the land. That means he would have crossed the Atlantic between May and October 1682. I have not felt comfortable with the statement that Dutton was on the Welcome because not all accounts of the Welcome include him as a passenger. There were evidently quite a few people who travelled on the Welcome who were not subsequently named. What were he sailing and arrival dates of the Welcome. Does it fit inside the May/October 1682 correctly? -----Original Message----- From: Curt Rowe <curtrowe@ix.netcom.com> To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com <DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:00 PM Subject: RE: Ship Passenger Lists >Here's something that Doug Hall posted a while back: > >I have a paper manuscript that is the DUTTON copy of the surveyor's report >laying out the land of John DUTTON in 1682. I also have the manuscript >parchments of other DUTTON related deeds and agreements from before 1720. > >The surveyor's report also mentions Nathaniel EVANS, John WAREL, John NEILD, >and John EDGE. It is written on both sides. Here is the text. > >Side 1: >"By Order and Direction from the Governor for setting out lands to the >Purchasers in Pennsylvania etc. I hereby Authorize three to Survey or lay >out to Tho. Rowland's assign four hundred and eighty acres on the Western >Side of Upland Creek next to Nathaniel Evans and next Lay out to John Warel >two hundred and forty acres and next lay out to John Neild two hundred and >forty acres and Next John Edge one hundred and twenty and return to me a >true Duplicate of teh field work and Protracted figures which are to remain >in my Office Dated the 10th of ye 7 mo 1682. Thomas Holme Surv > >To Charles Ashcome Surveyor >A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" > >Side 2: >"October the 8th 1682 >Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland Creek beginning >at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW into the woods >565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked White Oak >from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by Upland Creek from >there along the Creek side on several courses to the first Corner tree. >by me Charles Ashcome >A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" > >The second side has a hand drawn map of the bounds of the property that is >seemingly to scale. > >I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when his land was >laid out, but I don't think it is likely. > >A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome which arrived >at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers is >from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real Welcome >Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be on the welcome >are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on the >Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues that they would >not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when they could have >boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 9:00 AM >> To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Ship Passenger Lists >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have been over to Delaware County (PA) web page and have checked out >> all the passengers that they have listed as coming to Delaware Co in >> 1681 to 1687 and found not even one Dutton. I did find Wm Penn. I was >> looking for John Dutton who must have come over after 1687, unless >> someone else knows exactly when he came and on which ship. If you do, >> I'd be very happy to know! >> >> http://199.72.15.191/Sites/Gen/Del2/scripts/ListShips.asp >> >> Thanks, >> Carole Dutton Malisiak >> >> > >
Perhaps the web site intended to say that the Welcome sailed in August of 1682, which was the case. Balderston has it arriving 27 Oct 1682 while E. B. Cowgill says in the first weeks of November. It is likely that E. B. Cowgill compiled the list by taking the word of some that their ancestors arrived on the Welcome. As with the Battle of Hastings, many people would like to believe in some famous association. After a few generations wishful thinking becomes fact. There was a belief on my mothers side that our Bartlett ancestor was descended from Robert Bartlett of Mayflower fame and Josiah Bartlett who signed the Declaration of Independence. This is not possible since the two Bartletts are of different lines. I'm not positive of the link to Robert Bartlett either. > -----Original Message----- > From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:52 PM > To: curtrowe@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Re: Ship Passenger Lists > > > Hi Curt, > > Thanks for the information. I have written to Mary Harris in PA to > inquire if they put all their ships lists up on the web, yet. She has > the Welcome arriving in August, 1682, and you tell me that the ship > arrived in November, 1682. The ship could've come back in November and > Mary just doesn't have it uploaded yet or maybe she just doesn't have > the passenger lists from ALL the ships. > > Re: Marion Balderston. I don't understand (maybe I'm naieve!) why > anyone would make up a bogus passenger list. If they are on the list, > that's good enough for me even if we do not understand why they'd go to > London instead of Liverpool to board a ship. > > Thanks again, for your help, > Carole Dutton Malisiak > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > > Side 2: > > "October the 8th 1682 > > Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland > Creek beginning > > at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW > into the woods > > 565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked > White Oak > > from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by > Upland Creek from > > there along the Creek side on several courses to the first Corner tree. > > by me Charles Ashcome > > A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" > > > I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when > his land was > > laid out, but I don't think it is likely. > > > > A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome > which arrived > > at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers is > > from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real Welcome > > Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be > on the welcome > > are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on the > > Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues > that they would > > not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when > they could have > > boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. >
Here's something that Doug Hall posted a while back: I have a paper manuscript that is the DUTTON copy of the surveyor's report laying out the land of John DUTTON in 1682. I also have the manuscript parchments of other DUTTON related deeds and agreements from before 1720. The surveyor's report also mentions Nathaniel EVANS, John WAREL, John NEILD, and John EDGE. It is written on both sides. Here is the text. Side 1: "By Order and Direction from the Governor for setting out lands to the Purchasers in Pennsylvania etc. I hereby Authorize three to Survey or lay out to Tho. Rowland's assign four hundred and eighty acres on the Western Side of Upland Creek next to Nathaniel Evans and next Lay out to John Warel two hundred and forty acres and next lay out to John Neild two hundred and forty acres and Next John Edge one hundred and twenty and return to me a true Duplicate of teh field work and Protracted figures which are to remain in my Office Dated the 10th of ye 7 mo 1682. Thomas Holme Surv To Charles Ashcome Surveyor A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" Side 2: "October the 8th 1682 Laid out for John Dutton 500 of land on the West of Upland Creek beginning at Nathaniel Evans Corner tree being Sycamore and running WSW into the woods 565 perches to a marked Red Oak then NW 150 perches to a marked White Oak from there ENE 598 perches to a marked Red OAk standing by Upland Creek from there along the Creek side on several courses to the first Corner tree. by me Charles Ashcome A true Copy by Jacob Taylor" The second side has a hand drawn map of the bounds of the property that is seemingly to scale. I suppose it's possible that John Dutton wasn't present when his land was laid out, but I don't think it is likely. A John Dutton and wife are listed as passengers on the Welcome which arrived at the head of Delaware Bay in November 1682. The list of passengers is from the 'History of Philedelphia 1883'. In a article 'The Real Welcome Passenger' by Marion Balderston many passengers claimed to be on the welcome are discounted. John Dutton is not even mentioned as not commimg on the Welcome. In the case of other passengers Balderston argues that they would not have made the trip to London to sail on the Welcome when they could have boarded a ship much closer to home in Chershire: Liverpool. > -----Original Message----- > From: Carole Malisiak [mailto:malisiak@midohio.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 9:00 AM > To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Ship Passenger Lists > > > Hi all, > > I have been over to Delaware County (PA) web page and have checked out > all the passengers that they have listed as coming to Delaware Co in > 1681 to 1687 and found not even one Dutton. I did find Wm Penn. I was > looking for John Dutton who must have come over after 1687, unless > someone else knows exactly when he came and on which ship. If you do, > I'd be very happy to know! > > http://199.72.15.191/Sites/Gen/Del2/scripts/ListShips.asp > > Thanks, > Carole Dutton Malisiak > >
Hi all, I have been over to Delaware County (PA) web page and have checked out all the passengers that they have listed as coming to Delaware Co in 1681 to 1687 and found not even one Dutton. I did find Wm Penn. I was looking for John Dutton who must have come over after 1687, unless someone else knows exactly when he came and on which ship. If you do, I'd be very happy to know! http://199.72.15.191/Sites/Gen/Del2/scripts/ListShips.asp Thanks, Carole Dutton Malisiak
Hi to all DUTTON researchers. This is the second report of what little I found in London on the one afternoon I was able to get loose and go to the Genealogists Society. The reason I found so little was lack of time and unfamiliarity with the routine and organization. There was a multitude of material there and I didnt even get a chance to scratch the surface. This report pertains only to: Passenger and Immigration Lists Index First Edition, Vol 1 A-G page 526 Edited by P. William Filby with Mary K. Meyer Published 1981 by Gale Research Co., Book Tower, Detroit, MI 48226. Why I had to go to London to find research books published in the US is only explained by the fact that I live in a one horse town with no decent research facilities within driving distance. The index was first published in 1981 and then published a supplement ever year at least until 1995. They had that many there. I got a chance to glance at 5 of them. 1981, 82, 83, 84, & 95. I just ran out of time and was terribly frustrated when I had to quit and run. The index is just that - an INDEX. It is organized alphabetically by surname. Within the surname it is organized in chart format with 5 columns. Column 1 is alphabetical by the first name or initial(s) if known. Column 2 is the age of the individual at time of immigration. There were very few notations in this column. Column 3 is where that individual landed in the US if known. Sometimes it merely lists USA Column 4 is the year of immigration. Column 5 was a reference to the original document(s) where the data had been found. I then had to go find that book or document to get any further details. The first one I looked at was the original 1881 publication - and I thought I had hit the jackpot (foolish me). There were two seperate listings for a DUTTON (no first name indicated) landing in MA in 1630. Each had a different reference and I spent (wasted?) much of my valuable time hunting them down. The first was: page 68 of The Wingthrop Fleet of 1630 by Charles Edward Banks, 1930. It didnt give any more information. The second listing gave as a reference: page 72 of The Planters of the Commonwealth by Banks and it didnt give any further information either. I was most disappointed. I then went on to look at the 1882 supplement. This and the later supplements that I got to look at showed a certain amount of confusion as to whom they included in each publication. They might duplicate some but not all of those listed in the previous edition(s). so you could not get a complete list by looking at any particular edition. You must start at the beginning 1981 publication and go through each and every one to make sure you dont miss some. I know that many of us, including myself, have been under the impression that very few DUTTONs came over as original immigrants - Dont you believe it! In checking the 1982 supplement, after weeding out duplications from the 1981 edition I find the following: Andrew USA 1752 Andrew USA 1753 Ann MD.....1719 Charles Age 27 NY 1822 David VA ? David VA 1624 Debora VA 1652 Dorothy VA 1654 F. San Francisco 1850 G.W. San Francisco 1852 George USA 1765 H. San Francisco 1850 J. San Francisco 1850 J.W. San Francisco 1852 James GA ? with wife & child Jane USA 1759 John DE 1682 with wife John Philadelphia, PA 1812 John Philadelphia, PA 1815 John Grenada 1774 Joseph MD 1734 Laurance Boston 1765 Richard Barbados 1678 Susanna VA 1663-1679 Thomas USA 1743 Thomas Phiadelphia, PA 1852 Thomas MD 1775 In checking the 1983 supplement, after weeding out duplications from the previous editions I found the following: James Allegany Co., PA 1855 Thomas Mobile, AL 1848 In checking the 1984 supplement, after weeding out duplications from the previous editions I found the following: Henry VA 1665 James VA 1665 Thomas N.E. 1630 When I looked up the reference for this one it gave the following: Born 1621, living with sons Thomas & John in Billerica in 1675. - My comment here - for all the descendents of the New England branch - this is definitely our ancestor and we can at least prove that much. Whether this listing adds anything to what we already know is questionable - but worth discussing. I then had just enough time to skip to the 1995 supplement (the latest one they had). After weeding out duplications from the previous editions I found the following: Andrew VA 1681 Anne VA 1667 Samuel VA 1670 Samuel VA 1667 Thomas VA 1666 Thomas VA 1667 Thomas VA 1673 The only reference for all of the 1995 listings was: Nugent, Nell Marion. Cavaliers and Pioneers: Abstracts of Virginia Land Patents and Grants, Vol. 2: 1666-1695, Indexed by Claudia B. Grundman, Richmond, VA: Virginia State Library 1977, 609R. If there is anyone on this List that has access to these publications it might be worth the time and effort to check the rest of them and publish the findings. Just on what I have found here I believe I may see an answer or two to some of the questions I have seen posted to this list. Dick Dutton Researching my family tree! Trunk: DUTTON Major branches: ALLEN, BARTLETT, CUTLER, DOGGETT, DUNTEN, DUNTON, JENSON, LAKE, METCALF, PARTRIDGE, REYNOLDS, RICHARDS, SAWYER, SMITH, TRACY, TURNER. Minor branches: ADAMS, ALDEN, BALL, BLACK, BLANCHARD, BREWSTER, BRIMHALL, CARY, COLBURN, HATCH, HOPKINS, HYDE, KIDDER, PERKINS, WARNER, WILLIAMS. Smaller Limbs: ALGER, ANDERSON, CLARK, DAVIS, FRENCH, FULLER, HALL, HARRIS, JOHNSON, KNAPP, McMILLAN, MERRICK, MILLER, MOORE, NELSON PARKER, TUTTLE - And many more.
MALVERN GAZETTE , Friday August 7th 1998 (Malvern Worcestershire, England) "Medal Arrives 80 years too late" "A Malvern man's battle for his fathers First World War medal ended this week when it dropped through his letter box - 80 years late. Frank Dutton's three year campaign to have the medal awarded began after his family history research revealed his father should have receieved the 1914-15 Star. His father Gilbert Dutton joined the Life Guards shortly after the outbreak of war on december 3, 1914, following his elder brother William, who had enlisted a week earlier. The two, aged 22 and 25, trained together and were posted in France on the same ship...both were...involved in the battle if Loos in September 1915 where William was killed in action. William who has no known grave, was subsequently awarded a posthumous 1914-15 Star. Gilbert Miraculously survived the entire war and in 1922 received the British War and Victory Medals. He married, raised a family of two sons and two daughters, amd died in Malvern Link in 1973 aged 80. Mr Dutton said he assumed his uncle had been awarded the 1914-15 Star because he had beein killed in action, but his research revealed the medal had been given to all ranks who served in the theatre of war between August 5, 1914 and December 31st 1915...Mr Dutton realised his father should also have had the medal abd was determined to find an end to the story, which proved to be an expensive business. Two search fess later, he was able to appraoch the Amry Medal Office with documentary evidence from the PRO, at Kew to support his claim. After some weeks he received a brief letter informing him that "the 1914-15 Star, engraved as Tpr G.C.Dutton L Gds, is now avaliable for issue, free of charge to the next of kin. And this week the medal itself dropped through the letter box. "There was no hint of and apology for the arrival of the award almost 80 years late" said Mr Dutton. ____________________________________________________________________ Regards to all on the list, John Wedgwood Pound Worcester, England http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3203/
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Dear Winascar, Along with this Dutton list, you might also join the Cheshire-L rootsweb list. There are several knowledgable people on that list about the history around Cheshire, the ancestral lands of the people that you are looking for. Regards, Mike Dunton <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ The Dunton Family Homesite http://www.web-ster.com/miked list manager for dutton-l@rootsweb.com & dunton-l@rootsweb.com <><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~<><~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: WInascar@aol.com [mailto:WInascar@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, August 08, 1998 6:54 PM To: DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Sir Thomas Dutton of Dutton Hi, Iam looking for the line of Sir Thomas Dutton of Dutton d. 1459, son of Sir John Dutton of Dutton and grandson of Sir Piers Dutton of Dutton. Thomas's wife was Anne Tuchet de Audley, and their daughter was Anne Dutton who married Sir Thomas Molyneux of Sefton.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------47EEC93EFB6848529D878885 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by dogbert.ipa.net id PAA13141 Can anyone help Sandra out???=A0 Sue --------------47EEC93EFB6848529D878885 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from thunder.ipa.net (thunder.ipa.net [205.218.170.21]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA08024 for <oldolls@pop.ipa.net>; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:13:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail-rb.wizzards.net (root@mail.wmni.net [208.205.192.9]) by thunder.ipa.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA17541 for <oldolls@ipa.net>; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:13:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from chisholm.wizzards.net (p03-ts1-rb.wmni.net [206.100.190.23]) by mail-rb.wizzards.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id NAA21294 for <oldolls@ipa.net>; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:13:11 -0700 Posted-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: <35CF52C1.3A77@wizzards.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:06:25 -0700 From: Sandra Pope <chisholm@wizzards.net> Reply-To: chisholm@wizzards.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: oldolls@ipa.net Subject: Duttons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for information on Duttons in Illinois. my GGgrandfather George Henry Dutton was from Ill. SAn --------------47EEC93EFB6848529D878885--
Hello everyone, I read with interest the information on the Dutton families on this list with interest. I thought I would repost my interest just in case - a relation may be reading. I am new to family research but here is the information I have so far: My great grandfather was Arthur DUTTON b 1880 . He married Annie BENNETT. They had the following children: Alfred Harry DUTTON b 1912 Rawnsley, Hednesford, Cannock, Staffordshire Hazel Mary DUTTON b 1923 William DUTTON b? (I think he was the eldest son) May DUTTON Ray Dutton Ivy Dutton (unsure of their dates). Arthur's father was also Arthur DUTTON born 1853 Slitting Hill, Staffordshire. He married Eleanor ?. Their children were Arthur b 1881 , John (Jack) b 1878 (who I believe emigrated to Canada and joined the Canadian army) and Mary b 1876. If anyone has any links or information it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Regards, Claire Perth, Western Australia.