Hi Jim, My g-g-grandfather, Robert Dutton (Cope:119, pg 55) and your David Dutton (Cope 121: pg 55), father of Franklin (Cope:249, pg 65), were brothers. Isn't Cope wonderful for helping all of us get in touch in with one another. You guys on the list are the only Dutton cousins I have--no first cousins!! I am so happy to meet all of you. Maybe someday we could all meet in person!!! Carole ________________________ James Dutton wrote: > > Carole, > > My Franklin A. Dutton is listed on pages 65 and 79 in the Cope > book. And yes, I did enter ALL of the names into my Family > Tree Maker. In addition, I had another book on another branch > of my family, "Newberry Genealogy, The Ancestors and > Descendants of Thomas Newberry of Dorchester, Mass., 1634 - > 920 - 1914," where I also listed all the names, > plus a manuscript of the Cochran and Tucker families that I got > from the author, Ruth Eleanor Tucker, of Winterset, Iowa, where > I did the same thing. It took me about two weeks in each case. > I now have a little over 4,500 names. I also included sources for > all of them. Talk about writer's cramp!!! > Let's keep in touch, > > Jim

I would also like a copy of the chart. Karen Davis Sowards DAVIS, MENDENHALL, LAMP, SEEVERS, DUTTON, WOOD, RINEHART, JOB, CHILDRETH, KIMLER/KILMER, and more from OH, PA, NH

Carole, how do I obtain a copy of the Dutton chart you mentioned in message of 18 March? Mary Ellen.

Sorry! Whoops! I hope this link WORKS! Here it is!!!!! mailto:jamesdutton@earthlink.net Carike ________________________ Dick Dutton wrote: > > Hi Carole, > > Your message to Jim posted to the List did not include an e-mail address > for him, though I guess I don't need it. I can't find anything on his line. > > Dick > --------------------------------Snip--------------------------------- > > James Dutton wrote: > > > Carole, > > > I have just signed on to DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com and I am > > > totally amazed at the amount of information available on the > > > Dutton family.

Hi Jim, I am sending a copy of this message to the Dutton list in case there are other folks on the list who can be of more help to you than I am. Other comments interspersed below. __________________ James Dutton wrote: > Carole, > I have just signed on to DUTTON-L@rootsweb.com and I am > totally amazed at the amount of information available on the > Dutton family. > > I have only been involved in genealogy since the fall of 1997, > but already I have over 4,500 names in my Family Tree Maker > program, mainly due to three books/manuscripts, one of which > is The Genealogy of the Dutton Family of Pennsylvania by > Gilbert Cope. What are your other two books or manuscripts? There are a LOT of DUTTONS!!! Did you put all of the people in your program from the Cope Book? > My great-great grandfather was Franklin A. Dutton, who lived > in Jerseyville, Jersey County, IL. His son was George Franklin > Dutton, and his grandson was Robert Harrison Dutton, who > married my grandmother, Elizabeth Ruth Majors. (If you need > any of this later genealogy, let me know and I'll forward it to you. Where does your family connect into the Duttons in Cope? OR are you a Massachusetts Dutton descendent? > The Cope book is a little confusing, especially where it relates > to the very early Duttons of England. I have communicated with > a Gordon Dutton in the U.K. who has two a genealogies (800s to > 1700s and another done by his uncle that goes back to the > 1700s), plus a book published as a private publication. I have > requested copies of his genealogies and the book. The two > genealogies are on paper that measure 5 ft by 2.5 ft! I left the > decision up to him on how the best way to reproduce them > would be, so long as the cost would be reasonable. I have not > yet heard back from him. > > Any help that you might be able to offer me would be most > appreciated. > Jim I think that the Cope book is somewhat difficult to follow, as well, in the early lines (which are taken from Leycester's work). Having a chart is a big help. We bought our Chart from Dick Dutton who had found it in the Genealogical Society in London. He had it photocopied and made it available to LISTers for $10 (cheaper by the group) to cover the cost of copying and mailing. Individually, it would cost $15. Since he made that very generous offer, we have had a lot of new subscribers to the list. So, maybe if enough people wanted to buy a copy of this Chart by P.H. Lawson, he would make a new offer? I know that my copy is getting pretty raggedy around the edges and I could use a new copy to keep in its mailing tube for my children! Lawson's Chart starts with Sveide, a Norse King d 780 A.D. It covers the de Duttons, the Pennsylvania Duttons and the Sherborne Duttons down to 1955. Of course, since he was in England the PA Duttons just drop off the chart in the seventeenth century. I have added Lawson's data to my family's genealogy on my web page--The Dutton Chronicle--which is still under construction. I uploaded it this week. I'm still working on it, but the general line is up there now. I want to add more data from Cope and other sources that I have found. Sorry, I have not been more helpful, but maybe someone on the LIST will be able to tie into your family. Regards, Carole

Just realized that I gave PA John's baptism in error on this list. I want to correct it for the archives. The date I gave was for his father's baptism. PA John Dutton was bp on 30 Nov 1648

Hi Dick, I rechecked Colin's IGI database for the years 1618-1625 and these are the only Thomas' in there with real birthdates (not "abt") and real places. Thomas, (M); S: 29-Oct 1618, spouse: Ann COOKE, Place: Willington, Bedfordshire Thomas, (M), C: 22-Nov 1618, father: Thomas DUTTON, Place: Nantwich, Cheshire Thomas, (M), C: 14-Nov 1619, father: John DUTTON, mother Joan, Place: Langford, Bedfordshire Thomas (M) C: 10-Jun 1622, Thomas DUTTON, Winchcomb, Gloucestershire Thomas (M) C: 14-Oct 1622, Francis DUTTON, Cuckfield, Sussex Thomas (M) C: 7-Oct 1623, Frodsham Cheshire Thomas (M) C: 11-Jan 1625, Francis DUTTON, Saint Peter, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire Carole PS. Didn't Thomas buy any land in all those places where he lived?

Dutton family, Barons Sherborne Sherborne Gloucestershire 1382-20th cent : manorial records 1382-1637, deeds 15th-18th cent, legal papers 16th-20th cent, estate papers 18th-20th cent, family papers 19th-20th cent       Gloucestershire Record Office       Reference : D678       NRA 24530 Dutton c1710-42 : personal & estate account c1710-42       Gloucestershire Record Office       Reference : D1383       NRA 3514 Glos RO misc 19th cent-20th cent : family and estate papers       Hampshire Record Office       Reference : Accessions to repositories 1986 3 records found. Where reference is made to an NRA number, a catalogue is filed in the National Register of Archives and may be consulted in our public search room.

Hi, I have found that Dutton Manor Records (from 1553 to 1784) are stored at the address below. Since I cannot go over there myself and check them out, I have written to see if it is possible to get photocopies. I just betcha that I won't be able to get photocopies. Next best thing would be if they were microfilmed. Well, I'll let you know if I find out anything. Probably all boring stuff anyway. Carole Surrey History Centre (code : 176) 130 Goldsworth Road Woking GU21 1ND England Tel 01483 594 594 Fax 01483 594 595 Email shs@surreycc.gov.uk http://shs.surreycc.gov.uk/ http://www.hmc.gov.uk/archon/archon.htm

Part 2 5) Hersendis, second wife of Wm Count of Eu (Keats-Rohan) I have no children for this marriage, but have other information form Dave -- UTZ on Gen-Med. Dave thinks that William of Eu and Count William of Eu are two different people and he presents very convincing arguments. Keats-Rohan reports that Heresendi was the second wife of Count William. So this debate has not been settled, yet. Story on William of Eu. (from Dave) "In the Domesday, Wm of Eu succeeded his mother and Ralph de Limesi in the ownership of 77 manors in the Western and Southwestern counties which had belonged to Alestan of Boscome in Wiltshire. They were scattered over 9 counties and valued at £401 per annum. They formed a Barony of great importance and were known collectively as the Honor of Strigul." However, they were forfeited to Walter son of Richard de Clare (son of Gilbert of Eu). Count William of Eu, in 1095, was one of the leaders of a rebellion against William Rufus and he conspired with others to put Stephen Count of Aumale on the throne of England. For this treason, he was cruelly mutilated in prison at Salisbury in January 1096. His cruel punishment is mentioned, Dave says, in every chronicle of the period and they all avoid describing the sufferer as the Count of Eu. For sure, he was William of Eu. Dave also reports, "It is quite certain that William of Eu's wife, who was the Earl of Chester's sister, and whose jealousy was fatal to her husband, was not the wife of William Count of Eu." As I reported above Dave goes on to justify the distinction very convincingly. Well, it would seem to me that William of Eu was a very rich man and his children would have been given valuable estates as well, not some very poor property in Cheshire in 1086 by their uncle, ten years prior to their father's death which makes me feel that Odard was liklely not a descendent of this William. Now, on the other hand Earl Hugh had quite a few illegitimate children and this seems more likely to me, at this point, but I remain, searching for Odard's father! Carole

Hello everyone, I am making some very limited progress, but at least I have documented that Heresendi existed, which up until this point, was only reported by Cope without evidence. 1) Ansfred, the Dane (van Houts) .......2) Thurston Goz, Count of Hiémois, abt 1017 to 1025 and again from 1031 to 1035 and Lord of Toutainville and Creully. He led a rebellion at Falaise against Duke William abt 1043 and left the country as an exile (p 103). (van Houts) .......3) Richard Goz, vicomte of Avranches about 1055 or 1056. He died abt 1081 to 1087. He loyally served Duke William and was able to reconcile the duke and his father and he acquired many more possessions than his father had lost (p 102-3). (van Houts) ..........4) Hugh, Count of Avranches, Earl of Chester (p 208) died 27 Jul 1101 (Keats-Rohan) ..........5) Hersendis, second wife of William Count of Eu (Keats-Rohan) ..........6) Maud = Ranulf, vicomte of Bayeux (Keats-Rohan) ..........7) Juliana = Richer l'Aigle (Keats-Rohan) ..........8) Thurstin II, aka Thurstin de Cruelly (Keats-Rohan) 4) Hugh, Count of Avranches, Earl of Chester (p 208) died 27 Jul 1101 .....= Ermengard of Clermont (Keats-Rohan) .........1) Richard, Earl of Chester = Matilda d/o Adela (d/o King Wm.) & Stephen of Blois both died in the White Ship disaster (p 276) (van Houts) .........2)Phillip, illegitimate (Regista Regum Anglo-Normannorum 1066-1154) .........3) and other illegitmate children whose names I do not have (Keats-Rohan) Carole K.S.B. Keats-Rohan. The Prosopography of Post-Conquest England: Four Case Studies. Medieval Prosopography 14:1-52 Errata 14:159-164

Sam, I have only lately joined the list and am trying to make up for lost time. Therefore I would really appreciate you sending me your WordPerfect file. I do not have any gedcom capabilty at this stage but it is obvious that I will need it some time soon so that if you could also send me that file as well I will store it until I learn how to handle it. I am Australian born but now a citizen of Papua New Guinea. I am trying to trace the connection back from my first ancestor to come to Tasmania, Australia from England in March, 1828 which is considerably later than yours arrived in America. So far I can only make it back to his grandfather William Dutton who was born in 1724 and who married Anne Milward in St. Andrew, Undershaft, London on 5 September, 1747. I am hoping to find information on his father Matthew Dutton and the line back from there. Thanks, Warren Dutton Kiunga Guest House Kiunga. W.P. Papua New guinea

Hello again Sam, Let me address several of your comments below. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ShooseyQ@aol.com wrote: > Hello Dutton Listers; > It seems I've stirred up some controversy. I hope that's a good sign... Yes, you did stir up the List a bit and Yes, that's a good sign. There are a bunch of very good genealogists dedicated to the research of the DUTTON surname on our List. We have known all along that there are some questions on our heritage and have been working hard to try to answer them - many times resulting only in frustration - and you just jumped right in the middle of our most important question, which is: Who was really the original DUTTON immigrant who came to Mass. in 1630 as part of the Winthrup Fleet, who were his parents, and where did he come from. We have some supposed answers to these questions but we don't really trust (believe?) them. -------------------------------------Snip---------------------------------------- > For the first 8 generations of my ancestors (to 1746), leading toward John > DUTTON of 1596 fame, I have done most of the research myself, because I am > currently writing a book on my maternal grandfather's ancestors. I have > visited the New England, USA, several times and have researched public and > library records in little towns all along the way. You sound like a perfect candidate to be a subscriber to the DUTTON List - Welcome aboard! ------------------------------Snip------------------------------------- > Before 1746. the remaining > 26 generations I have on my Dutton ancestors I have downloaded from Ancestral > File at the LDS Family History Center in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. Ancestral > File, simply put, is a massive database of all the genealogical records of > persons who have submitted them to same). I believe everyone on our List is quite familiar with the LDS Ancestral File. If you would like to see some of the work done by some of our members take a look at the following two web sites: The first is the proud possession of Carole Dutton Malisiak, my 13th cousin: http://www.genealogy.dutton.net/gen3_anglonorm.htm and the second is a monumental work be Curt Rowe, my 13th cousin once removed: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~amcolan/Dutton/duttons_first.html -------------------------------------Snip---------------------------------------------- > Since 1987 I have been trying to > track down proof that each individual record is accurate or inaccurate, > whichever the case may be. As you're probably aware, the LDS Ancestral File > does have many errors. Yes indeed, we are painfully aware of the errors in the Ancestral File and that is the crux of many of our problems - trying to either prove or definitively disprove (which is just as hard) some of the critical data to our specific heritage that is running all over the internet and ending up in the Ancestral File where it is becoming "Gospel." -------------------------------------Snip------------------------------------- > If you are interested in receiving a gedcom of all the > Duttons I have in my database, which will show you how I trace my lineage to > John DUTTON 1596- I would be happy to E-mail it to you I would LOVE to receive a copy of your gedcom - my favorite form of exchanging data. And I would be happy to send you one in exchange. ------------------------------------Snip---------------------------------------- > (it also includes 22 > generations of the ancestry of John DUTTON who married Mary DARLINGTON, all > the way back to a Niel II De St. SAUVEUR, born about 1000 AD of Normandy, > France), but I don't think it is appropriate for submission to the list. It's > too big (1,641 names), and not everyone will be interested in it. I agree that 1641 names of data would be far too many for submission to the list as text within a message and the rules of the List prohibit submissions of ANY attachments. I disagree that anyone on the list would not be interested in any of it. Most, if not all of us, have data going back further than 1000 AD but we are having troubles proving much of that too. ------------------------------------Snip------------------------------------------------- > The gedcom > I can E-mail to you takes a genealogical computer program capable of handling > gedcom files generated from PAF 3.0 If you would like one, please let me > know and I will send it to you. I use the genealogy program REUNION for the Macintosh which can handle any gedcom in either version 4.x or 5.x. If your program allows you to choose the "Character Set" it should be set to "Macintosh" and it is definitely best to ZIP the file before attachment. I assume you use an IBM compatible PC? Since you use AOL for your ISP we need to keep the files less than about 1.5 MB. AOL con be awfully snotty about the size of files you can send & receive and if the attachment is not zipperd AOL usually corrupts it, at leest to Mac users. -------------------------------Snip----------------------------------------------- > Oh, I hope I'm not opening Pandora's Box... > I cannot vouch for any of the information I have in my data base except the > first six to eight generations before me. Sorry... 26 generations back in > time (before 1746) have not yet been proven by my research. 1746 is just my > page marker... I still have a LOT of research to do on the Dutton names. You're not opening Pandora's box. We're all in the same situation. I always make the same qualifications. I have primary documentation to prove my direct lineage back only as far as my 7G grandfather Thomas b.abt 1619 m. 1647 Susannah (PALMER?) b.abt 1626. We ALL still have a LOT of research to do on this surname. Welcome to the greatest "Treasure Hunt in History" Dick Dutton Researching my family tree! Trunk: DUTTON Major branches: ALLEN, BARTLETT, CUTLER, DOGGETT, DUNTEN, DUNTON, JENSON, LAKE, METCALF, PALMER, PARTRIDGE, REYNOLDS, RICHARDS, SAWYER, SMITH, TRACY, TURNER, WARD, WEDGWOOD. Minor branches: ADAMS, ALDEN, BALL, BLACK, BLANCHARD, BREWSTER, BRIMHALL, CARY, COLBURN, HATCH, HOPKINS, HYDE, KIDDER, PERKINS, WARNER, WILLIAMS. Smaller Limbs: ALGER, ANDERSON, CLARK, DAVIS, FRENCH, FULLER, HALL, HARRIS, JOHNSON, KNAPP, McMILLAN, MERRICK, MILLER, MOORE, NELSON PARKER, TUTTLE - And many more.

At 07:17 PM 03/11/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Carole, >Quite the snooping. > >>...........6) John of Hallo' Hey (1596-1667) Will = Margaret(?) d/o >>William Percival of Weever > > >This is the one that you are referring to, right? The death date implies >that he died in England it would seem. I assume that this John was born in >1596 and did die in 1667 and did marry a Margaret(?) Percival. > >That doesn't make this fellow an emigrant to Massachusetts. > >I still think the John DUTTON in MA is of unknown origin and that the story >of his marriage to a Mary NEELD is a very recent (post-Internet) creation >from someone's confusion or imagination. > >Doug Hall Doug: I agree with everything you say except that the Mary Neeld error is not recent. I find the same false connection in my grandmother's papers--she died in 1978. I believe, although I don't have it where I can get my fingers on it, that it was published in a family genealogy at some time in the 19th Century. The 'net has merely made the dissemination of the error so much EASIER. <grin> Darrell

Carole, Quite the snooping. >...........6) John of Hallo' Hey (1596-1667) Will = Margaret(?) d/o >William Percival of Weever This is the one that you are referring to, right? The death date implies that he died in England it would seem. I assume that this John was born in 1596 and did die in 1667 and did marry a Margaret(?) Percival. That doesn't make this fellow an emigrant to Massachusetts. I still think the John DUTTON in MA is of unknown origin and that the story of his marriage to a Mary NEELD is a very recent (post-Internet) creation from someone's confusion or imagination. Doug Hall

Hi All, again, I finally found the Domesday Book at the OSU library. I have typed up entries for Odard and they are available at the address below. Now, I want to check out Odard's brothers. I have already found Wolfath (Wolfrith), Lord of Hatton, and have found a genealogy for him, as well, as one for Warburton of Arley. http://www.genealogy.dutton.net/gen_perspect/odard.htm Carole

He's there! I checked again, again, agin!! 1) William Dutton = Agnes d/o John Conway, co Flints. ......2) Hugh Dutton = Catherine Wainwright of London (PA DUTTON LINE) ......3) William Dutton, Hallo'th' Hey in Ringsley d. 1568 bu. at Frodsham ...........4) William Hallo' Hey d. 1582 (Harl 2119) = d/o Crosby d. 1585 ...........5) John of Hallo' Hey (1550-1611) = Elizabeth d/o Robert Ireland of Hale ...........6) John of Hallo' Hey (1596-1667) Will = Margaret(?) d/o William Percival of Weever ...........7) John of Hallo' Hey d. 1669 ...........8) Ralph Hall of Hey 1667-1707 William Dutton (1 above) goes all the way back to Odard and to Ivo Carole

Dear Cousin Carike--whoops Carole, Don't get too excited. Assuming that someone can prove (or at least make a good case for the fact that) this is our MA John then we may no longer have even a hint at our so called connection to Odard and end up feeling like the proverbial "Bastard at the Family Reunion." Dick Dutton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carole Dutton Malisiak wrote: > Also, I looked on our Chart and I did not see a John Dutton that would > fit during that time frame. Could someone else double-check that? That > does not mean, however, that this John is not one of ours because not > all the children are listed on that chart. That chart would have to be > room-sized or bigger to fit everyone on it! > > I wish I didn't get so excited about this sutff (see, I can't even type > right!) > Carike--whoops > Carole

Also, I looked on our Chart and I did not see a John Dutton that would fit during that time frame. Could someone else double-check that? That does not mean, however, that this John is not one of ours because not all the children are listed on that chart. That chart would have to be room-sized or bigger to fit everyone on it! I wish I didn't get so excited about this sutff (see, I can't even type right!) Carike--whoops Carole