This is very interesting, What was customary back in the 1600's when our ancestors lived in the Netherlands? Judy On 04/23/13, cor snabel<cor.snabel@gmail.com> wrote: Dear list, To me it's amazing to see graves as old as 1750 or even older. Here in the Netherlands a grave from 1950 is an rare exception. Because we have so little space in our overcrowded country, one can only rent a grave for a limited time. We know two kinds of graves, the general grave and the private grave. In a general grave, which is most common, two or three people are buried, who were usually (during their lifetime) strangers to each other. They each have their own small gravestone close to each other. After ten years these graves are removed to make place for someone else. The private grave or family grave is also rented, but one can rent it for 10, 20 or 30 years. After that period the rent can be extended with another 10 or 20 years. And the contractant is free to decide who will be buried there. There are only a few âeternal gravesâ. Those graves last until the graveyard stops to excist. But that option is no longer possible. Regards Cor Snabel The Netherlands On 23 April 2013 20:52, <[1]jacassidy22@verizon.net> wrote: > > This information was contained in a letter sent to me by Arthur Weaner > in > 1983 after I had asked him about the ministers copy. > Unfortunately Mr. Osborn never showed or shared either the Dutch or > English > cemetery plan, the latter plan he is supposed to have taken to the > cemetery > between two pieces of glass to facilitate his work. As a guess in the > late > 1970's his house was robbed and my understanding is that in same he > lost > the treasured cemetery plot plans. FROM MEMORY, he inferred the loss. > I > suppose some what grieved that if he had shared with me his loss of the > original they could be replaced from my Copy. > Mr. Osborn died 7 Nov. 1783, age 67, buried in Biglerville Cem, > although he > wishes to be buried in the Low Dutch Swift Run Cemetery. I believe the > current owner is Carol Joy Baker and she purchased it from the Osborne > family. I will have to dig out the advertisement. > SO both Mr. Osbourne and Arthur did have some kind of map which they > apparently drew, but not the ministers copy which would have been in > Dutch. > Mr. Osbourne probably made his own map and copy after the robbery. > Since > many dates on the map Glee has are after 1800, this is not the > original, but > there were TWO drawings made of the cemetery PLUS the original plat > plan. > Judy > > > On 04/23/13, marguerite puca<[2]jerseymap@gmail.com> wrote: > > Could you take pictures of the 7 pages (plus map) and post the pics? > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Willora Glee <[1][3]gleek@ptd.net> > wrote: > > I have given money in the past to maintain the Conewago cemeteries. I > > was given in the past the list of who is buried in the North and > > South cemeteries of Conewago. I also have a plot map for them. I > > could share them but there are seven pages and I cannot post them to > > the list. I have had these maps and burial lists for a long time for > > over 15 years. If memory serves me right I shared them with Carolyn > > Leonard and her Dutch Cousins list. I could post the burial lists but > > not to plot maps. Maria Stryker Banta is supposed to buried in one of > > the two cemeteries but there is not listing for her nor is there a > > stone for her. She was buried to Henry Banta 4th. He is supposed to > > be buried there too. I descend out of them. How do you want me to > handle > > this? > > Glee Van Osdol Krapf > > > > > > At 11:12 AM 4/22/2013, you wrote: > > > > > Both the Dorland Cemetery on Sunset Road in Montgomery Twp. Somerset > > > County, NJ and the Conewago Cemetery on Swift Run Road are comprised > > of > > > grave makers which are basically field stone rocks which, if lucky, > > are > > > marked with initials and a date. The date of the Dorland > > > Cemetery is around > > > 1735 with burials ending by 1800, while the Conewago Cemetery > > probably was > > > established ca. 1772 however burials continued into the 1900's > > > with only two > > > burials, one a gypsy boy buried ca. 1910-1912 and David Weaner > burial > > in > > > 1964. More times than not, there is just a stone marker and those > > can be > > > just the tip of the stone, the stone may have sunk into the ground, > > fallen > > > on its side so only a odd shaped stone sticks up, that kind of > thing. > > Most > > > of these are rough read colored stones at Conewago and field stones > > which > > > seem to be cut in a long narrow shape with an indent half way > > > down the stone > > > at the Dorland cemetery. > > > Conewago RDCh. families later erected the more familiar gravestones > > on a > > > few family plots, but today there are many unmarked graves, the > > > field stones > > > long gone. There was a man, Gerry Byers, a german man who was > > employed by > > > the church in the 1700's who was the custodian of the cemetery, > > whether or > > > not he was responsible for the cutting of the field stones was never > > > mentioned but these were not just superficial stones, they were > > > long enough > > > and mostly narrow, as were the Dorland stones to be sunk deeply into > > the > > > ground. > > > The Dorland field stones were crushed by heavy farm equipment > > > which had been > > > parked there and/or pushed down under the ground by the weight of > the > > > equipment. While the Conewago Cemetery was enclosed by a stone wall, > > the > > > Dorland cemetery was never that fortunate. There is a limited list > of > > > burials for Conewago but in order to determine whether or > > > not your ancestor > > > was actually buried there, the baptismal, deacons records and > > > wills need to > > > be consulted. They are not going to actually state that so and so > was > > > buried there, however. Since the church was located next door to the > > > cemetery, later closer to Route 30, and there was also a southern > > cemetery > > > for the use of the Low Dutch living in that area. If someone in this > > > community died between 1772 and say 1804 when the church was closed > > what > > > remained of the congregation scattered to other churches. Some of > > these > > > families were buried in the church cemetery. Burials did, as > > mentioned > > > take place after 1804, as not all families migrated to Kentucky or > > Ohio, > > > however, they were few. Burials in the early years seemed to be not > > in > > > family plots but when the person died, so you have the members of > the > > > congregation mixed together. Initials and dates, if lucky, were > > > chiseled or > > > scratched into the stone but they were professionally done. That may > > have > > > been Mr. Byers job to do. He and his family also migrated down to > > Kentucky > > > in 1783 -1790. > > > At one time apparently there was a list of burials and a map showing > > their > > > location at Conewago which the caretaker in 1963 had in his > > possession. > > > Arther Weaner could never get him to show this map to him. He could > > point > > > out the location of who was buried where, but that document has > > > never been > > > made public, we know from the John Dorland Cremer book that 30 > > > to 40 burials > > > were in the Dorland cemetery with head and footstones. > > > The major concern is that throughout many counties and states > because > > they > > > ancient Dutch burial grounds did not look like what people in the > last > > > century felt cemeteries should look like, well then they were just a > > field > > > of rocks. This is probably been the largest cause of their > > > demise, farmers > > > plowed them under, developers built houses on them, that kind of > > thing. > > > Does any one else have a early Dutch family cemetery or know of a > > Dutch > > > Church cemetery in which the early burials were marked with field > > stones? > > > Judy Cassidy > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >DU[2][4]TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DU[3][5]TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DU[4][6]TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > References > > 1. [7]mailto:gleek@ptd.net > 2. [8]mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > 3. [9]mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > 4. [10]mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DU[11]TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DU[12]TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:jacassidy22@verizon.net 2. mailto:jerseymap@gmail.com 3. mailto:gleek@ptd.net 4. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 5. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 6. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 7. mailto:gleek@ptd.net 8. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 9. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 10. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 11. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 12. mailto:TCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

Judy and list, On 23 April 2013 23:04, <jacassidy22@verizon.net> wrote: > > This is very interesting, What was customary back in the 1600's when our > ancestors lived in the Netherlands? > Judy > In those days most people were buried inside the church. And as close to the altar as possible. Those around the altar were of course the most expensive graves. Suicides, non-baptized babies, heretics and those who died by the hand of the executioner, were not allowed to be buried inside the church. They were buried in a special part of the graveyard next to the church. The other part was for the poor. The graves were not emptied, which caused a lot of problems, especially inside the churches. The church authorities had to perform divine services on a regular base, but also a growing number of rich families, who wanted their relative to be buried inside the church. So they had to store the corpses till there was an opportunity for the funeral. If the city was struck by an epidemic, the problems were huge. During the divine services even perfume was not effective enough, so the situation was unbearable. Authorities decided, that the funerals would be performed in the evening, after all services and masses were over. It lasted until Napoleon occupied the Netherlands and he declared an offical ban on church funerals in 1804. When the French left in 1813 people started church funerals again, but in 1829 king Willem 1 signed a law against burials inside the church. New graveyards had to be outside the city, although some of those have already been 'swallowed' by city expansion. Regards, Cor Snabel The Netherlands > > > On 04/23/13, cor snabel<cor.snabel@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear list, > To me it's amazing to see graves as old as 1750 or even older. > Here in the Netherlands a grave from 1950 is an rare exception. > Because we have so little space in our overcrowded country, one can only > rent a grave for a limited time. > We know two kinds of graves, the general grave and the private grave. > In a general grave, which is most common, two or three people are > buried, > who were usually (during their lifetime) strangers to each other. They > each > have their own small gravestone close to each other. After ten years > these > graves are removed to make place for someone else. > The private grave or family grave is also rented, but one can rent it > for > 10, 20 or 30 years. After that period the rent can be extended with > another > 10 or 20 years. And the contractant is free to decide who will be buried > there. > There are only a few âeternal gravesâ. Those graves last until the > graveyard stops to excist. But that option is no longer possible. > Regards > Cor Snabel > The Netherlands > > >