That sound like a good term Peter... I think that would be the perfect term for two of the sample documents, one of which was from a letter to the English Ambassador at the Hague, and the other to the Governor of Canada--the third sample came from his journal. My main point is that all of these documents had different purposes behind them, which might have had an effect on the handwriting used in each. I'm considering ordering samples of watercolors previously attributed to LaMontagne, but their not cheap. I will wait until I receive more of his handwriting samples that I have already ordered, and complete some more analysis. Right now I do value ANY and ALL input! Appreciatively yours, Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: "Peter " <[1]pchrist1@nycap.rr.com> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 9:47 am To: <[2]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Perhaps the term you want is clerical (or secretarial) hand. Peter Christoph -----Original Message----- From: [3]dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [[4]mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of [5]jarm@nycnuts.net Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:31 AM To: [6]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? Thanks for your input Nancy! Calligraphy wasn't the right word.... and I still don't have a word to describe it---may just more deliberate, as someone might do on a piece of artwork. Most letters had several variations and I tried to include examples of each, you would have to take your time to notice the similarities. Two of the handwriting samples I had for LaMontagne were from documents written in French 30 years earlier. I have order additional, more contemporaneous, handwriting samples. It could just be my wishful thinking. Thanks again! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: Nancy Terhune <[1][7]nancyterhune@optonline.net> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 5:46 am To: [2][8]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Cc: [3][9]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com, [4][10]new-netherland@rootsweb.com Jim, Thanks for posting the link to the map. The map is really extraordinary. I'm not a graphologist or calligrapher, but I see most of the letter forms in your comparisons as quite different, the slants different, and I don't see a calligraphic style in the map script. Calligraphy produces letter forms that are consistent and clean and much less connected because of the emphasis on forming each letter perfectly. These are only my amateur observations. Does anyone have a better handle on this? Nancy On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:48 PM, [5][11]jarm@nycnuts.net wrote: > Iâm trying to prove the identity of the artist behind the earliest > known > depiction of New York City (c1650). > > > > Johannes LaMontagne is said to have been New Yorkâs first > accredited doctor, > and held important government positions under both William Kieft > and Peter > Stuyvesant. He built the first house in what today is known as > Harlem, as > well as being tasked with building the defensive wall for which > Wall Street > is named. Some sources name him as the possible drafter of some of > the > early maps of New Netherland including the original âManatvs Map,â > of which > only contemporary copies exist. > > > > Regarding the image in questionâæ This watercolor, which is in the > National > Library of Austria and titled âDe Stadt Nieuw Amsterdam gelegen op > het > Eylandt Manhattan...,â was only uncovered in the 1990s. I have > done my own > handwriting comparison between known samples of LaMontagneâs > handwriting, > and the writing found on that watercolor, and I believe they match. > There > are also known samples of watercolors painted by LaMontagne that > accompany a > journal of an expedition to Guianaâthese are housed in the National > Library > of Great Britain. I think these could also be used for comparison. > Iâm > looking for some advice, suggestions and opinions on being a > possible match. > > > > Below is a link to an image of the watercolor in question as well > as a link > to a sample of my handwriting comparison: > > > > > [1][6][12]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht .php ?id > =20 > > > [2][7][13]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > > > Jim Maxwell > > References > > 1. > [8][14]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.ph p?id =20 > 2. [9][15]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [10][16]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [11][17]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. [18]mailto:nancyterhune@optonline.net 2. [19]mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 3. [20]mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 4. [21]mailto:new-netherland@rootsweb.com 5. [22]mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 6. [23]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?i d 7. [24]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 8. [25]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?i d=20 9. [26]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 10. [27]mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 11. [28]mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [29]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [30]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:pchrist1@nycap.rr.com 2. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com 4. mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com 5. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 6. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 7. mailto:nancyterhune@optonline.net 8. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 9. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 10. mailto:new-netherland@rootsweb.com 11. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 12. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php 13. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 14. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php 15. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 16. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 17. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 18. mailto:nancyterhune@optonline.net 19. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 20. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 21. mailto:new-netherland@rootsweb.com 22. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 23. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php 24. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 25. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php 26. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 27. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 28. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 29. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 30. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com