Thanks Howard! Thant was great input. I believe, if I remember correctly, Stoke mentions LaMontagne as being the possible drafter of the ORIGINAL Manatvs Map, of which only supposed copies exist. I have read some of Joep de Koening's comments on this image, but I don't think I saw that article. I think I might try to contact him after I do a little more work. I have tried some to obtain samples of Augustijn Herrman's handwriting, but have only, as yet, seeing mention of his signature, which by itself might help. I will take another look at the Visscher Map. There was a book released in 2010 which contained the maps of the WIC and that work had several maps attributed to LaMontagne, but I can't find a library that carries it, including the NYPL, or the Family History Library. Thanks Howard---your input has served me well! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: "Howard Swain" <[1]hswain@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 10:37 am To: <[2]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Hi Jim and James, The picture you show appears to be the same one as was used on the cover of The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto. He mentions it briefly on p. 218. One source he cites for his comments is an article by Joep de Koening, âFrom Van der Donck to Visscherâ in Mercatorâs World 5, no. 4 (July/August 2000). There is a similar painting as the frontispiece of I. N. P. Stokesâ Iconography of Manhattan Island ..., vol. 1. You can see it here: [3]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000006.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Stokes has a long discussion of this starting on p. 119. (Augustine Herrman is mentioned on p. 121.) He discusses the possible date of the view on p. 122 in the paragraph beginning âFrom the foregoing facts,â He says on p. 121 that the author of this view is unknown. Of course that was in 1915. The plates before p. 119 show several other maps and views of New Amsterdam and New Netherland. Including the Visscher map (plate 7-b), which has a similar picture as a little inset at the bottom. See discussion on p. 147-8. I just quickly skimmed these discussions, but it appears to me that Stokes thinks all of the similar views he shows were copies made from some now lost original. Also, note plate 1: [4]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000174.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Discussed on pp. 131-5. The date depicted is â1626-8?â Regards, Howard [5]hswain@ix.netcom.com From: [6]jarm@nycnuts.net Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:48 PM To: [7]DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com ; [8]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com Subject: [NEW-NETHERLAND] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? Iâm trying to prove the identity of the artist behind the earliest known depiction of New York City (c1650). Johannes LaMontagne is said to have been New Yorkâs first accredited doctor, and held important government positions under both William Kieft and Peter Stuyvesant. He built the first house in what today is known as Harlem, as well as being tasked with building the defensive wall for which Wall Street is named. Some sources name him as the possible drafter of some of the early maps of New Netherland including the original âManatvs Map,â of which only contemporary copies exist. Regarding the image in question⦠This watercolor, which is in the National Library of Austria and titled âDe Stadt Nieuw Amsterdam gelegen op het Eylandt Manhattan...,â was only uncovered in the 1990s. I have done my own handwriting comparison between known samples of LaMontagneâs handwriting, and the writing found on that watercolor, and I believe they match. There are also known samples of watercolors painted by LaMontagne that accompany a journal of an expedition to Guianaâthese are housed in the National Library of Great Britain. I think these could also be used for comparison. Iâm looking for some advice, suggestions and opinions on being a possible match. Below is a link to an image of the watercolor in question as well as a link to a sample of my handwriting comparison: [1][9]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php ?id =20 [2][10]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ Thanks in advance for your input! Jim Maxwell References 1. [11]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?i d=20 2. [12]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [13]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 2. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 3. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000006.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left 4. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000174.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left 5. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 6. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 7. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com 8. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 9. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id 10. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 11. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id=20 12. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 13. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com