Howard & All: If you scroll down farther in this posting from the archives... http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/2003-04/1051317777 ...you'll find that vander Kreest is an error: "it's vander "REDDER". Knowing the Dutch usually don't have the spelling "Redder" so check of gazeteer and turned up Ridderkerk, by Oostendam. Both are in Zuid-Holland province. Clearly Frederick knew Claes from Oostendam before coming to New Netherlands. There are records for Ridderkerk going back to 1521." Perhaps someone with experience in reading 17th-century Dutch handwriting would have better luck than I did in trying to find Frederick in the Ridderkerk church records. It's still not clear to me how Oostendam pertains to the conclusion that Claes Jansen de Rutyer of Naarden was the brother of Frederick's wife, Styntje Jans. For more on the earliest generations of the Van der Grift family see... http://members.tripod.com/vandergrift/descend.htm Perry Streeter (mailto:perry@streeter.com) http://www.perry.streeter.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:59:55 -0700 From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Fredrick Lubbertszen's two wives + Claes Jansen de Ruyter of Naarden <snip> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/2003-04/1051317777 Re: "vander Kreest" mentioned in the above message -- For the 1677 marriage record of daughter Elsjen Fredericks in the Brooklyn records translated by A.P.G. Jos van der Linde (p. 216) she is shown as "Elsjen Fredericks van der Kreeft, 'maiden from the Manatas' ". And daughter Aaltje is shown in Voorhees' Flatbush records for 1682 (p. 236) as: "Aaltje vander Kreest; J.D. van N. Yorke". Also on p. 385 at bap. of son Hans, Elsje is shown as Elsje frederiks vander Kreest. Recall that their much older half-sister had married in 1648 at New Amsterdam Jacob Van der Grist (or Grift -- I'm not sure which it "should" be). So, I wonder if somehow the Van der Grift name got attached to Elsje and Aaltje and came out as Van der Kreeft or Kreest. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com