Hi Howard Thank you for the follow-up. I had gone through list archives and found the previous discussions about the Verlet family. > Hoffman shows that Casper's parents married in 1590 at Cologne. Very nice, thank you. The 1590 marriage fits perfectly. But did Hoffman make a note giving the source of this claim? > If George Hack (who marr. Anna Verlet) was born in 1620 then we might assume Anna was born about then or a little later. Yes, I agree. That was one of my original red flags with the supposed "Anna Leisler Herman". Because she was supposed to have married George Nicolas Hack, son of this Joris aka George. Yet, if the story is true about Augustine's and her father being killed around 1619, then she must be born before then. And if so, she would be of the generation of Joris, and not of his son. > Later I got a chance to see the extensive article on the family by Edwin Purple in NYGBR starting in vol 9, p. 54 and continuing for several issues. That was April, July and Ocober 1878, and April 1879. Looks as if only the July 1878 issue is still available from NYGBS. PERSI says the Ft Wayne library has them. Are all four of these issues on the NYGBR CD? > You should also read NYGBR vol 71, pp 117-119, which has an interesting deposition of Judith Varlet re. their arrival. Is this the account of the 1650 arrival on the "Fortuyn"? In which she remembers that Abraham, son of her brother Nicholas Verlet, was born as the ship was near Martha's Vineyard? > Mr. Hoffman also found Casper's marriage at Utrecht on 17 Oct 1615 to Judith Tintenier. Yes. Frans Gouverneur also found a baptism in Utrecht of probably the first child, Abraham: Baptism in the Utrecht Walloon Church: 6 Oct 1616 Abraham; parents: Gaspar Varlet, Judith Tintenier; witn.: Guillaume Tintenier, Magdaleine widow of Abraham Tintenier. [[msg posted to D-Col on 13 Jan 2004 -- thank you Frans]] They are probably naming this son after the maternal grandfather. (Edwin Purple) > He shows the same 5 children of Casper Varlet as does David Riker: > Nicholas, Jannetje, Maria, Catherina, and Judith. > The court records in New Amsterdam show that Paulus Schrick > (who m. Maria Verlet) called Guiliam Verlett his brother in law. > [RNA 3:29] Guiliam is also said to be deceased then (26 Aug 1659) > Also, on 28 June 1655, Judith Verleth refers to her sister, Sarah. > [RNA 1:326] Could she be a sister in law, instead? The most > likely, it seems to me, would be possibly the wife of Guiliam. No, she was a sister. Sara was baptized 1 May 1639 - Oude kerk, Amsterdam. Her parents were Caspar Verlet and Judith Tentenier; witn.: Jan Cornelis Lichthart, admirael, Lijsbeth Schilt, Machtelt Verlet [bron 7 p.209]. Machtelt Verlet here is probably the aunt, Machtelt (Janse) van Bree, wife of Peter Verlet. I don't know what became of her, does anyone? Probably she died, maybe at Hartford. Nothing shows up in the index to the Amsterdam Doopregister in the appropriate time period for William or Guilliaume. Maybe he married in another city, or maybe he never married. > The name "Anne Leisler Herman" doesn't make sense to me. I've never seen someone with a surname as a middle name in that time period. And since she is said there to be the sister of Augustine Herman, then Leisler couldn't even be a maiden name. Ie. she couldn't be Anna Leisler who married _____ Herman. It made no sense to me either. I checked all through what is available about the Leisler family and did not find anyone who seemed to fit. The D-Col archives and a couple of websites about the Leisler papers were excellent. But I sure don't see where any Anna of this group could have married Joris Hack's son. >> "On Thursday Sept 17th, 1663, it was ordered that "an Acte of >> Naturalizacon be prepared for Augustine Herman, and his Children and >> his brother in Lawe George Hack and his wife and Children."" > This seems the best evidence to date that Anna Verlet was a dau. of Casper and a sister to Jannetie who married Augustine. Could there be another way Augustine and George could be brothers in law? I am fairly satisfied that Anna was an older sister of Jannetje's and the others. here is another goodie about Anna Verlet and siblings: This record probably exists somewhere in New Amsterdam/New York archives, but it was also recorded in Northampton/Accomack county Virginia. "On 9 August 1652, Mrs. Anna Varlet the wife of Mr. George Hacke dwelling in Virginia as having power thereunto by letters from her said husband, she declared to have bought from the seller a certain pinnace named "The Fortune" lying at anchor at Amersterdam in the New Netherlands for the sum of 1300 guilders. The payment of the aforewritten moneys agreed upon the security as aforesaid is to make payment and the before written pinnace with the appertentions belonging thereunto the aforesaid is by William Varlett in the name and on the behalf of his sister the buyer thereof... securities Gespair Varlett and Nicholas Varlett." (Northampton, VA Wills, Deeds, etc., Vol. 4:113). I don't see any other way Joris/george Hack and Augustine Herman could be brothers in law except throughthe Verlet sisters, Anna and Jannetje, or else through a sister of Augustine who is somehow invisible. Augustine Herman's second wife was said to have been Catherine Ward. Defying Occam's Razor with suppositions, we could imagine that IF Augustine had married an Anna who somehow had the Leisler surname, then Augustine's widow could have been called Anna Leisler Herman. But in looking through all I could find on this family, I don't see any Anna in the Leisler family who would fit into the appropriate time slot. One last question I have is about Susanna Wissenbach Leisler, mother of Jacob Leisler. She may have come to New Amsterdam --in 1664 a "Susanna Leydsler" witnesses the baptism of Susanna Leisler, oldest daughter of Jacob Leisler and Elsje Tymens. If this is Jacob's mother, she was a widow at the time. A 'Susanna' could (and has) become known as "Anna" in the same way that Catherina becomes "Tryntje." Following this, IF this Susanna Leisler married ___ Herman, then married George Nicholas Hack (who was born about 1646), and IF somehow her name was truncated to "Anna", she at last would have become "Anna Leisler Herman Hack." But this is such a hairy notion that Occam's Razor would certainly depilate it. Thanks again, Howard. You are one of my all-time heroes. Best to all, Liz J On 3/5/07, Howard Swain <hswain@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > Hi Liz, > > From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anna HERMAN > > > The earliest generations of the Colonial HACK family of Eastern Shore > > Virginia and Maryland have a series of sons called George Nicholas and > > they also have many wives called Ann. > > > > One of my biggest questions lately is whether or not there was a > > George Nicholas HACK, son of the Joris HACK who was baptized in Cologne in > > 1620, and his wife Ann VERLET, sister of Jannetje VERLET, > > Augustine HERMAN's wife. Their son, George Nicholas, probably born > > around 1646, is said to have married "Anna Leisler HERMAN." But > > nobody seems to have documentation on this marriage and as you > > (Howard) noticed, there's not much if anything around on the Anna > > HERMAN who is supposed to be the sister of Augustine. > > We had a discussion on this list back in Dec 2003 to Jan 2004 on the > Verleth / Varlet family. (Other priorities came up for me and I had > to bow out around the end of Dec.) Later I got a chance to see the > extensive article on the family by Edwin Purple in NYGBR starting in > vol 9, p. 54 and continuing for several issues. > > He shows the same 5 children of Casper Varlet as does David Riker: > Nicholas, Jannetje, Maria, Catherina, and Judith. > The court records in New Amsterdam show that Paulus Schrick > (who m. Maria Verlet) called Guiliam Verlett his brother in law. > [RNA 3:29] Guiliam is also said to be deceased then (26 Aug 1659) > Also, on 28 June 1655, Judith Verleth refers to her sister, Sarah. > [RNA 1:326] Could she be a sister in law, instead? The most > likely, it seems to me, would be possibly the wife of Guiliam. > > For what its worth, on that same page (326) O'Callaghan has footnote > listing the siblings of Judith Verleth: > Nicholas, Janneke, "Anna, wife of George Hawke of Virginia", Maria, Catharine, and Sarah. > > I believe we discussed 3 years ago that there was a Anna Verlett, > wife of George Hack. See, eg., CDM p. 129. > > Mr. Purple also mentions them and thinks she was probably a > sister of Casper. > > You should also read NYGBR vol 71, pp 117-119, which has an > interesting deposition of Judith Varlet re. their arrival. And is followed > by research in Europe by William Hoffman. He found siblings of Casper > as: Pieter, Daniel, and Catharina. > > So, far no one seems to have definitively proven whether the > wife of George Hack is Casper's daughter or sister or niece or whatever. > > Mr. Hoffman also found Casper's marriage at Utrecht on 17 Oct 1615 to > Judith Tintenier. > > If George Hack (who marr. Anna Verlet) was born in 1620 then we > might assume Anna was born about then or a little later. > Hoffman shows that Casper's parents married in 1590 at Cologne. From these > dates it seems more likely that Anna was the dau. of Casper rather than > his sister. However, she could also be a niece, it seems to me. > > I note also that Mr. Hoffman shows that Catharina Varleth (sister of Casper) > married Jacques Hack. So, there is another possible connection between > the families. > > > > Joris HACK and Anna Verlet also had son Peter who had many > > descendents. But for now the focus is on son george Nicholas and his > > wife or wives. > > > > The possibility have been raised that two generations of men called > > "George Nicolas > > HACK could have been made of one --George N #1 married "Anna Leisler > > HERMAN"; George N #2 married Ann Wright. > > > > Info on these two generations of Joris HACK descendents seems to have > > come from a monument on a grave: > > > > The only place anyone seems to cite as a source for this supposed > > marriage to "Anna Leisler HERMAN" is in a book which describes a > > memorial obelisk in Fairview Cemetery in Accomack County VA, near the > > HACK home. This obelisk was erected by descendents, possibly in place > > of or above a > > group of family tombstones. Ralph T. Whitelaw in Vol. II of Virginia's > > Eastern Shore, pps. 658-659 makes comments and gives the text of > > inscriptions on the faces of this monument. He has no sources but is > > simply reporting what is engraved in the stone. He says "Some years > > ago, all of the tombstones in the family graveyard were buried, a > > granite coping set around the plot, and a shaft raised in > > the center. Upon the shaft is inscribed: > > > > WEST FACE > > > > (Hack Coat of Arms) > > > > In Memory of > > Dr. Joris Hack, baptized > > in Cologne, Germany, March > > 20, 1620, died in Virginia, 1665; > > Married Anna Varlett > > daughter of Casper and > > Judith Varlett > > Their son, Dr. George > > Nicholas Hack, born in > > Cologne, Germany, died in > > Accomac County, Virginia; > > Married Anne Leisler > > Herman, born in Amsterdam, > > Holland, sister of > > Augustine Herman of > > Bohemian Manor, > > Cecil County, Maryland, > > Lieutenant Colonel George > > Nicholas Hack, died 1705. > > and Ann, his wife, daughter of > > Richard Wright and Ann. > > his wife, daughter of Colonel John. > > Mottrom of Northern > > Neck, Virginia." > > > > The other sides of the shaft have inscriptions about descendents of Joris HACK. > > <snip> > > > There is an image online of this monument. It's impossible to tell > > from the image if the motto and the words, "Joris Hack 1646" are on > > the crest, and simply not reported in the second descriptiion of this > > monument. > > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/o/d/Bryan-S-Godfrey/PHOTO/0267photo.html > > The text at the bottom says it was erected in 1929. > That is about 300 years after the fact. > Who knows what they based the info on. > > The name "Anne Leisler Herman" doesn't make sense to me. > I've never seen someone with a surname as a middle name > in that time period. And since she is said there to be the > sister of Augustine Herman, then Leisler couldn't even be > a maiden name. Ie. she couldn't be Anna Leisler who > married _____ Herman. Unless -- maybe she married a > brother (assuming one existed) of Augustine, and so is > Augustine's sister-in-law. Of course, if that were the case > in the 17th C. she would be normally be called Anna Leisler > or maybe Anna Herman. > > > In the absence of evidence of "Anne Leisler Herman's" existence, I > > wonder if a source of confusion may have been the 1663 and 1666 > > petitions for naturalization of Augustine Herman and his wife and > > children, with Anna and Joris/George Hack and their children. In those > > documents, transcripts of which are in Maryland State Archives, > > Augustine HERMAN and Joris (George) HACK are described as > > brothers-in-law. In MSA Volume 1, Page 462 "Proceedings and Acts of > > the General Assembly January 1637/8-September 1664" is a record of a > > petition of > > Augustine Herman for an "Act of Naturalizacon for himselfe, Children > > and his brother in Lawe George Hack." > > "On Thursday Sept 17th, 1663, it was ordered that "an Acte of > > Naturalizacon be prepared for Augustine Herman, and his Children and > > his brother in Lawe George Hack and his wife and Children."" > > This seems the best evidence to date that Anna Verlet was a dau. of Casper > and a sister to Jannetie who married Augustine. Could there be another > way Augustine and George could be brothers in law? > > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > Standard Source Abbreviations: > http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=96 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Liz, From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Varlet, Hack, Heermans (was: Anna HERMAN) > Hi Howard > > Thank you for the follow-up. I had gone through list archives and > found the previous discussions about the Verlet family. > >> Hoffman shows that Casper's parents married in 1590 at Cologne. > > Very nice, thank you. The 1590 marriage fits perfectly. But did > Hoffman make a note giving the source of this claim? I should add first that it was Jan 12, 1590, marr.of Nicolaes Varlet and Francina Jacobs. As to sources he says "Among the manuscripts in the collections of the Koninklijk Nederlandsch Genootschap voor Geslacht en Wapenkunde at the Hague is a Family Register of the Varlet Family... From the records contained therein and a search in the archives of the city of Utrecht and other collections the following pedigree has been assembled." >> Later I got a chance to see the > extensive article on the family by Edwin Purple in NYGBR starting in > vol 9, p. 54 and continuing for several issues. > > That was April, July and Ocober 1878, and April 1879. Looks as if only > the July 1878 issue is still available from NYGBS. PERSI says the Ft > Wayne library has them. > Are all four of these issues on the NYGBR CD? Yes. Their Disc 1 covers the first 30 volumes. >> You should also read NYGBR vol 71, pp 117-119, which has an > interesting deposition of Judith Varlet re. their arrival. > > Is this the account of the 1650 arrival on the "Fortuyn"? In which she > remembers that Abraham, son of her brother Nicholas Verlet, was born > as the ship was near Martha's Vineyard? Yes. > (Edwin Purple) >> He shows the same 5 children of Casper Varlet as does David Riker: >> Nicholas, Jannetje, Maria, Catherina, and Judith. >> The court records in New Amsterdam show that Paulus Schrick >> (who m. Maria Verlet) called Guiliam Verlett his brother in law. >> [RNA 3:29] Guiliam is also said to be deceased then (26 Aug 1659) >> Also, on 28 June 1655, Judith Verleth refers to her sister, Sarah. >> [RNA 1:326] Could she be a sister in law, instead? The most >> likely, it seems to me, would be possibly the wife of Guiliam. > > No, she was a sister. Sara was baptized 1 May 1639 - Oude kerk, > Amsterdam. Her parents were Caspar Verlet and Judith Tentenier; witn.: > Jan Cornelis Lichthart, admirael, Lijsbeth Schilt, Machtelt Verlet > [bron 7 p.209]. > Machtelt Verlet here is probably the aunt, Machtelt (Janse) van Bree, > wife of Peter Verlet. OK. Good. > I don't know what became of her, does anyone? Probably she died, maybe > at Hartford. I've forgotten when exactly they were at Hartford. The court case I cited in 1655 deals with a complaint by Wolfert Webber against the daus. Judith and Sarah. So, I assume they were living on Manhattan at that time. > >>> "On Thursday Sept 17th, 1663, it was ordered that "an Acte of >>> Naturalizacon be prepared for Augustine Herman, and his Children and >>> his brother in Lawe George Hack and his wife and Children."" > >> This seems the best evidence to date that Anna Verlet was a dau. of Casper > and a sister to Jannetie who married Augustine. Could there be another > way Augustine and George could be brothers in law? > > I am fairly satisfied that Anna was an older sister of Jannetje's and > the others. here is another goodie about Anna Verlet and siblings: Three years ago, I had estimated birth dates for the 5 generally listed children based on their marriage dates (not knowing when Casper and Judith were married). I had dates between 1627 to 1640. Now with the 1615 marriage date and Abraham born in 1616, it looks like there is plenty of room for more kids between Abraham and Nicholas. So, both Anna and Guiliam could fit there. Judith must have been fairly young in 1615 to still have a child in 1639. I bet Sarah was the last. > This record probably exists somewhere in New Amsterdam/New York > archives, but it was also recorded in Northampton/Accomack county > Virginia. > > "On 9 August 1652, Mrs. Anna Varlet the wife of Mr. George Hacke > dwelling in Virginia as having power thereunto by letters from her > said husband, she declared to have bought from the seller a certain > pinnace named "The Fortune" lying at anchor at Amersterdam in the New > Netherlands for the sum of 1300 guilders. The payment of the > aforewritten moneys agreed upon the security as aforesaid is to make > payment and the before written pinnace with the appertentions > belonging thereunto the aforesaid is by William Varlett in the name > and on the behalf of his sister the buyer thereof... securities > Gespair Varlett and Nicholas Varlett." (Northampton, VA Wills, Deeds, > etc., Vol. 4:113). I didn't find any record of this in New Netherland, but could have missed it. There were some court cases before the Council at about that time that mention that Anna Verlett was wife of George Hack. See CDM and NYHMs: Dutch Council Minutes 1652-1654 [vol. V]. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com