Relevant book The Embarrassment of riches" by Schama. alm > [Original Message] > From: E.J.Richards <richards@uni-wuppertal.de> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Date: 3/23/2007 6:30:18 AM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] stereotypes about the Dutch > > It is important to distinguish between long standing stereotypes of the > Dutch and changing social and historical realities. > > Yes, the Dutch were sensible, hard-working and thrifty because they were > fighting with the North Sea to preserve their land. It is not that the > Dutch spend less (go to a restaurant in Amsterdam and you'll see what I > mean, or look at some of the jewelry or antique stores in Amsterdam as > well), they just are not ostentatious with their wealth (which is > considerable). And the Dutch were historically absolute models of > religious tolerance -- long before the Pilgrims sought refuge there, > many of the Jews driven out of Spain in 1492 settled in Amsterdam (and > Hamburg, and Istanbul). I live very close to Holland, in Munster > (Westfalen), and so have contacts on an almost daily basis with Dutch > people, who are actually, above all, fun-loving and lots of fun (even if > they like this really sweetish honey cake for breakfast). During the > last Soccer World Cup, everybody loved the Dutch fans, painted in > orange. They were silly and sweet. Great fun. > > Historically Holland has been drawn toward France to the south, Germany > to the west and England across the Channel. Erasmus, the great > humanist, once wrote that he could be "French" or maybe "German" but > certainly not a "Batavian" (the word which Dutch Renaissance humanists > re-introduced to call themselves, based on the name of a Germanic tribe > which disappeared in the 4th century A..D.). It's not easy being Dutch, > and the Reformed Church, while tolerant toward others, has historically > been rather austere. By the same token, Dutch Catholics have always > inspired dread in more conservative quarters of the Catholic church. > > And yes, at the same time, please remember, there are some dark sides to > Dutch history which any Dutch person will admit to. The Dutch had a vast > colonial empire and made few friends in the Dutch East Indies. Much of > Holland's considerable wealth depended not only on trade but on the > colonial system which favored the mother country. The Dutch sent the > largest number of SS volunteers to the Eastern Front and many Dutch did > well and truly collaborate with the Nazis. (For example, there is a new > exhibition here in Muenster, which is where the independence of the > original Republic of the United Provinces was declared, whence its > special place in Dutch history, devoted to the children of Dutch > collaborators and how they were marked in postwar Dutch society.) And > last but not least, the Dutch tolerance of recreational drugs -- and the > connection between Surinam and Amsterdam making drug smuggling from > South America to all of Europe very easy -- is not exactly something > many people in Holland are particularly proud of. And in the last few > years, every Dutch tolerance has been recently tested to the limit with > a number of political murders and the torching of some mosques. > > So, well, being Dutch is not always easy. But hey, is being a part of > any national community easy? > > Cheers, > Jeff Richards > Muenster, Germany > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > ALarue3325@aol.com > Sent: Donnerstag, 22. M�rz 2007 23:45 > To: Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] (no subject) > > > > > The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. They are > very > direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or > refreshing. > Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical > > items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a > chance to > practically economize, they will. > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So THAT's were I get my tolerance! :-) Ady

Thanks for the tip. Dutch history is not at all easy to grasp. -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Agnes Mitchell Sent: Freitag, 23. März 2007 16:56 To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] stereotypes about the Dutch Relevant book The Embarrassment of riches" by Schama. alm > [Original Message] > From: E.J.Richards <richards@uni-wuppertal.de> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Date: 3/23/2007 6:30:18 AM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] stereotypes about the Dutch > > It is important to distinguish between long standing stereotypes of the > Dutch and changing social and historical realities. > > Yes, the Dutch were sensible, hard-working and thrifty because they were > fighting with the North Sea to preserve their land. It is not that the > Dutch spend less (go to a restaurant in Amsterdam and you'll see what I > mean, or look at some of the jewelry or antique stores in Amsterdam as > well), they just are not ostentatious with their wealth (which is > considerable). And the Dutch were historically absolute models of > religious tolerance -- long before the Pilgrims sought refuge there, > many of the Jews driven out of Spain in 1492 settled in Amsterdam (and > Hamburg, and Istanbul). I live very close to Holland, in Munster > (Westfalen), and so have contacts on an almost daily basis with Dutch > people, who are actually, above all, fun-loving and lots of fun (even if > they like this really sweetish honey cake for breakfast). During the > last Soccer World Cup, everybody loved the Dutch fans, painted in > orange. They were silly and sweet. Great fun. > > Historically Holland has been drawn toward France to the south, Germany > to the west and England across the Channel. Erasmus, the great > humanist, once wrote that he could be "French" or maybe "German" but > certainly not a "Batavian" (the word which Dutch Renaissance humanists > re-introduced to call themselves, based on the name of a Germanic tribe > which disappeared in the 4th century A..D.). It's not easy being Dutch, > and the Reformed Church, while tolerant toward others, has historically > been rather austere. By the same token, Dutch Catholics have always > inspired dread in more conservative quarters of the Catholic church. > > And yes, at the same time, please remember, there are some dark sides to > Dutch history which any Dutch person will admit to. The Dutch had a vast > colonial empire and made few friends in the Dutch East Indies. Much of > Holland's considerable wealth depended not only on trade but on the > colonial system which favored the mother country. The Dutch sent the > largest number of SS volunteers to the Eastern Front and many Dutch did > well and truly collaborate with the Nazis. (For example, there is a new > exhibition here in Muenster, which is where the independence of the > original Republic of the United Provinces was declared, whence its > special place in Dutch history, devoted to the children of Dutch > collaborators and how they were marked in postwar Dutch society.) And > last but not least, the Dutch tolerance of recreational drugs -- and the > connection between Surinam and Amsterdam making drug smuggling from > South America to all of Europe very easy -- is not exactly something > many people in Holland are particularly proud of. And in the last few > years, every Dutch tolerance has been recently tested to the limit with > a number of political murders and the torching of some mosques. > > So, well, being Dutch is not always easy. But hey, is being a part of > any national community easy? > > Cheers, > Jeff Richards > Muenster, Germany > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > ALarue3325@aol.com > Sent: Donnerstag, 22. März 2007 23:45 > To: Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] (no subject) > > > > > The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. They are > very > direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or > refreshing. > Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical > > items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a > chance to > practically economize, they will. > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dutch names are harder:-) Thought I knew about patronymics and dit names (my husband's French Canadians) What I seem to know is equivalent to my sticking one toe in the swimming pool before jumping in. Barbara Southern California At 08:51 AM 3/23/07, you wrote: >Thanks for the tip. Dutch history is not at all easy to grasp. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Agnes Mitchell >Sent: Freitag, 23. März 2007 16:56 >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] stereotypes about the Dutch