Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of place, rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually became a city name. I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" implies Dutch. Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 Chris On 2/18/07, Howard Swain <hswain@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Thanks to all who responded. > They idea of Ulster had occured to me. It was interesting that Rick > actually found the spelling Wolster for Ulster in print. It also seemed > to me that the "-ster" ending seemed more English than Dutch or German. > So, Pete's suggesting of Worcester might be a possibility. However, > maybe "-ster" is Anglo-Saxon so maybe also occurs where the Angles > and Saxon's came from? Like the place Chris suggested. > > Although, men from the British Isles did go to The Netherlands to help > them fight the Spanish, I would have thought this would have ended > after the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. I don't recall any men that > came directly from the British Isles to New Netherland as soldiers; > so I would have expected them to go first to The Netherlands and > then transfer. But because Pieter P. arrived in 1658 and seemed so > young (if all these are the same guy), then that double move seems > unlikely. > I now remember Brian Newton; but did he come directly from England > as a soldier? > > Anyway, my guess would have been that Pieter P. came from The Netherlands > or an > adjoining country. As Chris mentions, there are other men known to have > come from what is now Germany as soldiers. Also, if he came from a > place in Ireland or Britain, I doubt he would have had "van der Welster" > appended to his name. > > The above is about all I can say in answer to Chris' first question. > > As to his religion, my hypothesis is that he is the Pieter Pauluszen who > baptized two daughters in the NA RDC in 1663 and 1666; but he > does not seem to have joined the church. The only lists I have of > Lutherans are petitions of 1657 and 1659 asking for a Lutheran > minister. But Pieter was still at New Amstel then. So, I don't know > his religion. (I might also mention that Hendrick Jansen Spier who did > sign > the Lutheran petition also baptized his children in the NA RDC.) > > So, I believe the Pieter Pauluszen could well have been a German Lutheran. > And Chris' suggestion of Wilster looks like the best possibility to me so > far. > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <brookskcmo@aol.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? > > > > Howard > > > > I've never seen a location in the Nederlands similar to Wolster or > Welster, so do you have anything to show he might be Dutch? Do you know his > religion? Is it possible that Peter Pousen was German or at least from a > modern German area. There is a city near the Elbe river in present > Schleswig-Holstein named Wilster that dates back to the 1200's which is a > possible location you might wish to check out. Several years ago I knew two > brothers who were born there and they pronounced the town name as if it were > spelled "Velster" > > > > We know many early emigrants were from this area and many soldiers in > the Dutch service were actually Germans. The church records I believe are > still intact and date back to 1616, but they are not available through the > LDS Family History Library. > > > > Hope that may be of some help. > > > > Chris Brooks > > Kansas City, Missouri > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hswain@ix.netcom.com > > To: Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 7:07 PM > > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > On 21 Feb. 1664 there was an order for the payment of arrears > > due to Peter Paulusen van der Welster, a soldier. > > [CDM p. 261] > > > > On 5 April 1674 "Peter Poulsen, aged 43 years, born at Wolster," > > was accused of assaulting people in the streets of New Orange. > > [CDNY 2:703] > > > > Since o and e in 17th C. handwriting looked similar, I assume that > > O'Callghan may have misread one of them and that this is the same > > guy from the same place. > > > > Furthermore, back in August 1658, Alrichs had written to Stuyvesant > > and mentioned the arrival of two soldiers, Evert Brantsen and Peter > Paulus, > > at New Amstel. > > > > I believe this is the same Peter. He would be about 17 or 18 when he > > arrived at New Amstel. I'm guessing he came from The Netherlands. > > > > But where is Wolster or Welster? Or what should the place be? > > I cannot seem to find any place named that nor a place that could be > > misread as that. > > > > Thanks for any ideas, > > Howard > > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > Standard Source Abbreviations: > > > http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=96 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

I am also related to the Bloodgoods, but have done little research on them. The mother of Kniertje Marston was Geertje Bloodgood. I had a girl from France stay with me for a week and she said the "de" means of Royalty. She was born and lives in France, just came to the states for a visit between classes to be a doctor. My ancestor was de Montfort from Valenciennes, and my mother was a Montfort. I should join the Founders and Patriots for I will be the last. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of > place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message