Hi Perry, Just a comment or observation which I think you need to consider in this regard. You wrote (in part): > Q. Were Hester (-----) GARRISON & Mary (-----) OLIPHANT daughters of > Mary-2 (LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKING, who was the daughter of > Walraven-1 LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE & Hester DELAHAILL of Staten Island? > > That Mary-2 LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE (Walraven-1) married John ASKING/ASKIN > (of unknown origin) and had children is inferred from her brother's will: > > Page 75.--ABRAHAM LUTINE. "Richmond County, December ye 2, 1702. I, > Abraham LUTINE, being in perfect memory, Praised be God for it." I > give to my loving wife, Ann Lutine, one lot of land whereon I now > live, joining to Isaac Bellin, with all the rights thereto belonging. > I give to John ASKING, Jr., my sister's son, one lot of land being > near ye Isenberg, with all the rights > thereto belonging. I leave all my lands in East New Jersey to the > children of my two sisters, Mary and Hester. I leave to my loving > mother 2. I leave to John ASKING, Jr., two horses, and to Abraham > Crocheron, son of John Crocheron, one cow. Makes his wife executor. > > Witnesses, John Stillwell, David De Bon Repos. Proved, December 22, 1702. > > Source = Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707, page 357 & 358. > > *If* John & Mary (LUTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKIN followed traditional > patterns when naming their children, those children would have > *possibly* included daughters named as follows: > > 1. Hester [name of maternal grandmother]. > >> Q. Did such a daughter exist & marry Johannes/John-3 > GERRITSEN/GARRISON? > 2. ----- [name of paternal grandmother]. > 3. Mary [name of mother]. > >> Q. Did such a daughter exist & marry Duncan OLIPHANT? My observation: > *If* John & Mary (LUTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKIN followed traditional > patterns when naming their children, those children would have > *possibly* included daughters named as follows: You have left out one important word in the above speculative hypothesis, and that would be *Dutch.* The families under discussion had no known Dutch origins or affiliations. The only known child (son) of John Asking and Mary Lutine (from the will of Abraham Lutine cited above) was John Asking, Jr, and we do not know if John Asking, Sr. was the son of another John Asking, or simply named his son (John) after himself. In reality, there is no evidence (or precedent) to even suggest that they followed any "traditional" naming patterns, either Dutch or otherwise. Best regards, Pam Sears

Pam: Thanks! I can always count on you for a helpful response :) I don't know anything about the origins of John ASKIN[G] but Walraven LUTEN was from Flanders... "Walraven Luten from Flanders wife & infant [NWI]" As copied from http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/nnship11.shtml If Hester (DELAHAILL) (LUTEN) MARTINEAU was the wife named in the record above, then she was from Flanders as well. So it seems most likely that Walraven & Hester were Flemish or Dutch. Walraven & Hester named a daughter Hester and she, in turn, apparently named children John [name of father], Mary [name of maternal aunt], Abraham [name of maternal uncle] and Elizabeth so it seems like this family was honoring loved ones in traditional ways. On the chance that Walraven & Hester were French, like Hester's second husband, the French reportedly followed this pattern: "Every first-born son was generally named after the paternal grandfather. The second-born son was named after the maternal grandfather. The first two daughters were generally named after their grandmothers, order would flip-flop depending on whether one was dead or not. Since maternal mortality was high, you'll often see the name of a deceased grandmother being used over and over again." As copied from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070516062324AAIEiUZ Perry -----Original Message----- From: Pamela J. Sears [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:13 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] ASKIN[G]/GARRISON/LUTEN/MARTINEAU/OLIPHANT; , Staten Island & NJ; 1600s+; plus FOUNTAIN/PERRINE/+ Hi Perry, Just a comment or observation which I think you need to consider in this regard. You wrote (in part): > Q. Were Hester (-----) GARRISON & Mary (-----) OLIPHANT daughters of > Mary-2 (LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKING, who was the daughter of > Walraven-1 LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE & Hester DELAHAILL of Staten Island? > > That Mary-2 LUTEN/LUTTEN/LUTINE (Walraven-1) married John ASKING/ASKIN > (of unknown origin) and had children is inferred from her brother's will: > > Page 75.--ABRAHAM LUTINE. "Richmond County, December ye 2, 1702. I, > Abraham LUTINE, being in perfect memory, Praised be God for it." I > give to my loving wife, Ann Lutine, one lot of land whereon I now > live, joining to Isaac Bellin, with all the rights thereto belonging. > I give to John ASKING, Jr., my sister's son, one lot of land being > near ye Isenberg, with all the rights > thereto belonging. I leave all my lands in East New Jersey to the > children of my two sisters, Mary and Hester. I leave to my loving > mother 2. I leave to John ASKING, Jr., two horses, and to Abraham > Crocheron, son of John Crocheron, one cow. Makes his wife executor. > > Witnesses, John Stillwell, David De Bon Repos. Proved, December 22, 1702. > > Source = Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707, page 357 & 358. > > *If* John & Mary (LUTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKIN followed traditional > patterns when naming their children, those children would have > *possibly* included daughters named as follows: > > 1. Hester [name of maternal grandmother]. > >> Q. Did such a daughter exist & marry Johannes/John-3 > GERRITSEN/GARRISON? > 2. ----- [name of paternal grandmother]. > 3. Mary [name of mother]. > >> Q. Did such a daughter exist & marry Duncan OLIPHANT? My observation: > *If* John & Mary (LUTEN/LUTINE) ASKING/ASKIN followed traditional > patterns when naming their children, those children would have > *possibly* included daughters named as follows: You have left out one important word in the above speculative hypothesis, and that would be *Dutch.* The families under discussion had no known Dutch origins or affiliations. The only known child (son) of John Asking and Mary Lutine (from the will of Abraham Lutine cited above) was John Asking, Jr, and we do not know if John Asking, Sr. was the son of another John Asking, or simply named his son (John) after himself. In reality, there is no evidence (or precedent) to even suggest that they followed any "traditional" naming patterns, either Dutch or otherwise. Best regards, Pam Sears