Another place to look for Cosyn Gerritsen and Vrouwtje Gerrits back in the Netherlands might be in Haarlem. He doesn't give his sources, but Herbert Stewart Ackerman, in his Haring genealogy, says that Grietje Cosyns (dau, of Cosyn Gerritsen and Vrouwtje Gerrits), who married (2) Peter Jansen Haring, was born in 1634 (as Regina Haring noted previously in this discussion), and he further says she was b. in Haarlem. Another location to look for records, if they exist. Pat On Jun 5, 2011, at 3:43 PM, E Johnson wrote: > Thanks very much to Pat and Firth and Chris for pointing to the > marriage record and for exploding the myth that "Maijcken Everts = > Vrouwtje." > > Let me add a credible authority for the given-name Vrouwtje. Indeed > this was not a nickname, nor a term of endearment. This name was and > is a real Dutch women's name. It is a diminutive of the name Frauk. > This name has been used for centuries, and is still used today. See > Dr. J van der Schaar's Handbook of given names entitled _Woordenboek > van Voornamen_ (1964, Prisma), which lists many spellings and versions > of the given-name Frauk. In my edition (1992), this is on p. 177. Dr. > J. van der Schaar writes that modern interpretation of this name is > sometimes rendered as 'Veronica.' > > Vrouwtje, Cozyn's apparent second wife (married by 1640) is called > either 'Vrouwtje Cozyns" or 'Vrouwtje Gerrits' in the baptisms. > 'Cozyns' is the husband-nym; Gerrit is the husband's patronym, but it > is not impossible that her father's name was also Gerrit __. > > O'Callaghan didn't help matters concerning Vrouwtje. in RNA 1, his > translation of this woman's name comes out first as "Mrs. Gerrits, > wife of Cosyn Gerritsen". [RNA 1:96] Ten pages later, though he has it > right (as her name). > > As Chris mentioned, a search for baptisms of children of Cosyn Gerrits > and Maijken Everts is important. I checked Amsterdam, & no... not > there, unless they were Remonstrants or Mennonites. It might not be a > bad idea to check first for records of Harderwyjk, the next closest > city to Putten. > > Regarding Margriete Cosyns, the one who apparently married young, it > is not unprecedented to find two children with the same first name in > the same family. > > It appears that there is a lot more to the Cosyn Gerrits and Margriete > Cosyns cases than has been verified so far. Rather than constructing > fuzzy stories explaining away aspects of these cases that "don't fit", > it would serve the truth better to at least attempt to locate earlier > records of this family. This requires throwing away all of the > mythology, and locating and interpreting whatever Dutch records are > available. What a great lesson here: Simply looking at the New > Amsterdam (or New Netherland) stuff, which contains a very limited > amount of material, is not nearly enough to draw solid conclusions > about the early life of this man, his wives, and his children. There's > a clue already available: Aunt Susanna Elefersen, back in Hoorn. > > Liz J > > The ocean is not an impassable gulf, and langage doesn't have to be a > barrier. The limits exist only in our own minds. Find the edge of the > envelope, then stretch it... Fly. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I realized as soon as I sent this that I had assigned Grietje to the wrong Haring husband -- she married (2) Jan Pietersen Haring, SON of Peter Jansen Haring. Sorry for the mental lapse! Pat On Jun 5, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Pat & Walter Wardell wrote: > Another place to look for Cosyn Gerritsen and Vrouwtje Gerrits back in > the Netherlands might be in Haarlem. He doesn't give his sources, but > Herbert Stewart Ackerman, in his Haring genealogy, says that Grietje > Cosyns (dau, of Cosyn Gerritsen and Vrouwtje Gerrits), who married (2) > Peter Jansen Haring, was born in 1634 (as Regina Haring noted > previously in this discussion), and he further says she was b. in > Haarlem. > > Another location to look for records, if they exist. > > Pat > > > On Jun 5, 2011, at 3:43 PM, E Johnson wrote: > >> Thanks very much to Pat and Firth and Chris for pointing to the >> marriage record and for exploding the myth that "Maijcken Everts = >> Vrouwtje." >> >> Let me add a credible authority for the given-name Vrouwtje. Indeed >> this was not a nickname, nor a term of endearment. This name was and >> is a real Dutch women's name. It is a diminutive of the name Frauk. >> This name has been used for centuries, and is still used today. See >> Dr. J van der Schaar's Handbook of given names entitled _Woordenboek >> van Voornamen_ (1964, Prisma), which lists many spellings and >> versions >> of the given-name Frauk. In my edition (1992), this is on p. 177. Dr. >> J. van der Schaar writes that modern interpretation of this name is >> sometimes rendered as 'Veronica.' >> >> Vrouwtje, Cozyn's apparent second wife (married by 1640) is called >> either 'Vrouwtje Cozyns" or 'Vrouwtje Gerrits' in the baptisms. >> 'Cozyns' is the husband-nym; Gerrit is the husband's patronym, but it >> is not impossible that her father's name was also Gerrit __. >> >> O'Callaghan didn't help matters concerning Vrouwtje. in RNA 1, his >> translation of this woman's name comes out first as "Mrs. Gerrits, >> wife of Cosyn Gerritsen". [RNA 1:96] Ten pages later, though he has >> it >> right (as her name). >> >> As Chris mentioned, a search for baptisms of children of Cosyn >> Gerrits >> and Maijken Everts is important. I checked Amsterdam, & no... not >> there, unless they were Remonstrants or Mennonites. It might not be a >> bad idea to check first for records of Harderwyjk, the next closest >> city to Putten. >> >> Regarding Margriete Cosyns, the one who apparently married young, it >> is not unprecedented to find two children with the same first name in >> the same family. >> >> It appears that there is a lot more to the Cosyn Gerrits and >> Margriete >> Cosyns cases than has been verified so far. Rather than constructing >> fuzzy stories explaining away aspects of these cases that "don't >> fit", >> it would serve the truth better to at least attempt to locate earlier >> records of this family. This requires throwing away all of the >> mythology, and locating and interpreting whatever Dutch records are >> available. What a great lesson here: Simply looking at the New >> Amsterdam (or New Netherland) stuff, which contains a very limited >> amount of material, is not nearly enough to draw solid conclusions >> about the early life of this man, his wives, and his children. >> There's >> a clue already available: Aunt Susanna Elefersen, back in Hoorn. >> >> Liz J >> >> The ocean is not an impassable gulf, and langage doesn't have to be a >> barrier. The limits exist only in our own minds. Find the edge of the >> envelope, then stretch it... Fly. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message