I've been following this discussion and I agree it's good to see so much activity on the DL again. I am not a descendant of this couple but the discussion as raised some good information about marriageable age in New Netherland and the independence and free spirit of a mere 'woman'. Our Dutch ancestors were different than we are and rose to the occasion regardless of age or gender. My comment however is on the marriage Pat mentioned that was discovered at Putten for a Cosijn Gerrits to a Maijken Everts. I had to read her post a couple of times because I don't see this the marriage of the couple being discussed. The comment was made that Vroutje may be a nickname for 'little wife' and her name was something else. I disagree. Vroutje and Vrouwken were common first names so equating Vroutje Gerrits as Maijken Everts is highly unlikely. I checked the Putten marriage ondertrouwen and the marriage listing is as it was published and while the first name Cosijn is rather uncommon, if this is the Cosijn Gerritsen of New Netherland I would think this is a prior marriage for him and not the marriage of the wife who was with him in New Netherland. In checking the Putten RDC baptisms from 1631 to 1639, I found no children baptised for this couple although the closest match was in 1638 for a Jochem son of 'Goosen' Gerrits of Putten. I would have to assume that Cosijn may have been born at Putten but likely married Vroutje at some other location. I also took a quick glance at the baptisms from 1601-1630 and I didn't find the baptism for a Cosijn son of a Gerrit. Unfortunately many of the baptisms only record the baptism of a 'kynt' or child with no name making the task harder. I did find a Gerrit Jansen as the father of baptised children but some had no first name. Personally, I wouldn't accept the marriage intentions given as the marriage for Cosjin and Vroutje although I wouldn't rule it out as an earlier marriage for Cosijn. I think you will just have to look in some other location for a marriage for Cosijn to Vroutje. Chris Chris Brooks Kansas City, Missouri On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Listers -- > > Such a great conversation and it IS good to see the Dutch-Colonies > List "come alive" again. I just knew you were all out there lurking :-) > > According to information in e-mail Dec 2003 from Jim Cozine < > [email protected] > >, he had a Dutch researcher investigate the marriage of Cosyn > Gerritsen -- > > Researched by Mrs. Trynke Hoekstra, of Ermelo, Netherlands for Jim > Cozine in Oct 2000 -- Putten married 2 january 1631: Cosijn Gerrits, > son of the late Gerrit Jans, to Maeijken Everts, daughter of the late > Evert Reijers. both of Putten. > > Maeijken Everts was aka Vrouwtje Gerrits. As someone on this list > suggested, Vrouwtje may be a nickname, meaning "little wife" and the > "Gerrits" is probably a "husband-nymic." > > The 1631 marriage date above was found in the Putten City Archives. > > So, if they were married in 1631, there is plenty of time for some > children to have been born in the Netherlands before the couple came > to New York. In fact, it would be unusual if there were no children > born before 1640 (the date of the first baptism of a child for them in > the NYC Ref Ch). > > I'm mentioning this because if this marriage date is, indeed, > accurate, I think it gives us a new view of the "timeline" and > bolsters the idea that Margariet/Grietje may have been born a few > years before her 1641 baptism in New Amsterdam. I still think it's > very possible that she may have been left in the care of relatives in > the Netherlands when her parents came to New Netherland, and made the > voyage at some point before 1641 to the new world (either with her > mother or with another relative). We know her mother, Vrouwtje, made > at least one voyage back to the Netherlands, and even though it was an > arduous trip in those times, it's possible she made other voyages back > and forth. > > I'm still having trouble with the idea (even if it WAS technically > legal) of a 12-13 year old girl marrying. Even if we can bump her age > at marriage up a couple of years, she would still be quite a > "precocious" girl, and quite remarkable, actually. But then, it amazes > me how well our colonial Dutch ancestors managed, lived, and prospered > (and sometimes how long some of them lived) in what must have been > conditions we today would consider very difficult. Just to make the > voyage here indicates an amazing spirit of adventure, strength and > resolve! > > Pat > > > > > On Jun 4, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Pat & Walter Wardell wrote: > > > My thought is that Margariet, baptized 1641 was perhaps a few years > > old at the time of her baptism. The NYC Ref Ch record does not give a > > date of birth. Is there any other mention of her date of birth or age > > in any other records? I think because it was, at that period, the norm > > to baptize infants soon after their births, it has always been > > generally accepted that if she was baptized in 1641, she was born in > > 1641. > > > > I'm thinking that since Vrouwtje apparently made trips to the > > Netherlands and back, perhaps this child had been born in the > > Netherlands, and remained there when Cozyn Gerritszen & Vrouwtje first > > came to New Netherland. Perhaps, in this scenario, her mother brought > > her to New Amsterdam in a "return" trip, and had her baptized there in > > 1641 (when she was a few years old). > > > > It seems a better solution than the drastically young child bride > > theory. > > > > I don't know how this could ever be proved, though. > > > > What I would really like to see is a separate documented mention of > > her birth date or age at any given time. > > > > Pat > > > > On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:31 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> My ancestors Cozyn Gerritsen Cozyn and Vroutje Gerrits had five > >> children > >> baptized in NA DRChurch. > >> > >> Children of Cozyn Gerritszen and Vroutje > >> Gerrits: > >> Child: Gerrit. Parents: Cozyn Gerrits, Vrouwtie Cozyns. Bp: 20 May > >> 1640. > >> New Amsterdam DRCh. > >> Wits: Aert Theunis, Aert Willems, Tryntje Everts, Wyntje Elberts. > >> [NYDC > >> 2:10] > >> Married: Belitje Quick > >> Child: Margariet. Parent: Cozyn Gerritszen. Bp: 5 May 1641. New > >> Amsterdam > >> DRCh. [NYDC 2:12] > >> Wits: Jacob van curlaer en syn huys v, Barent dircksz. Baecker, > >> Rachel > >> Vigne. > >> Married: (1) Herman Theuniszeen (2) Jan Pietersen Haring. See > >> below. > >> (3) Daniel DeClark. > >> Child: Hendrick. Parent: Couzyn Gerritszen. Bp: 20 Jan 1647. New > >> Amsterdam > >> DRCh. [NYDC 2:21] > >> Wits: Sibert Claeszen, en syn huys vr., Teunis Nyssen, en syn huys > >> vr., > >> Cornelis Corneliszen. > >> Child: Geertje. Parent. Cozyn Gerritszen. Bp: 4 July 1649. New > >> Amsterdam > >> DRCh. [NYDC 2:26] > >> Wits; Thomas Hall, Geurt Koerten, Herman Smeeman, Pytie Jans, > >> Geertje > >> Koerten. > >> Married: Andries Jeuriaensz > >> Child: Elsje. Parent: Cozyn Gerritszen. Bp: 19 May 1652. New > >> Amsterdam > >> DRCh. [NYDC 2:31] > >> Wits: Nicolaes Verleth, Hendrick Janszen, Lyntie Jochems, Belitje > >> Cornelis. > >> > >> This query concerns their daughter Margariet, bp 5 May 1641 who > >> married > >> (1) Herman Theuniszen 19 April 1654 and (2) Jan Pietersen Haring in > >> 1662 > >> (3) Daniel DeClark 4 March 1685. > >> > >> * * A Brief Timeline on > >> Margariet aka Grietje Cozyn.* * > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 5 May 1641. Baptism: Child: Margariet d/o Cozyn Gerritzen was bp > >> 5 May > >> 1641. [NYDC 2:12] > >> > >> 19 April 1654. Marriage: Grietje Cosyns to (1) Herman Theuniszen > >> VanZell > >> 19 April 1654. [NYDC 1:18] > >> The above Margariet is 12 years, 11 months old. > >> > >> 6 Sept 1655. Hendrick Pietersen, plft vs Grietie Cosyns, deft. [RNA > >> v2:160] > >> > >> Pltf. says, deft. made use of his horse, and rode thereon, and also > >> let it > >> stray in the woods. Requests, that she be condemned to search for > >> the > >> horse and deliver it to him when found, at her own expense. Deft. > >> says, pltf’s > >> horse broke into her buckwheat, and as she wished to lead him from > >> her > >> land she sat on him and brought him to the Fresh Water, to prevent > >> any further > >> damage. Maintains that she is not bound to satisfy pltf’s demand. > >> Parties > >> being heard, it was decided by the Court that the deft was > >> justified to > >> bring the horse from her land to prevent damage. Wherefore pltf’s > >> demand is > >> dismissed. > >> Minutes of the Court of Burgomasters and Schepens 1653-1655 [RNA > >> V1:352,353] > >> EKK: The above Margariet is 14 years, four months and a married > >> woman of > >> one year, four months. > >> Did Hendrick Pietersen take a child to court? Is that > >> legal? Why > >> isn't her husband with her or > >> mentioned in the court record? It mentions 'her buckwheat' > >> and > >> "her land" Did she own land? > >> It is a hard to believe story for a 14 year old child. > >> > >> 24 Feb 1658. Grietje Cozyn becomes a mother. > >> The above Margariet is 16 years, nine months. > >> > >> Witsuntide 1662. Margarette Cozine married (2) Jan Haring. [Bible > >> record]. She has seven children. > >> > >> 4 March 1685. Grietie Cozyns married (3) Daniel De Clark. NYDC > >> 1:56] > >> No issue. > >> -------------------------- > >> There are many excellent articles and genealogies by respected > >> researchers > >> on the Harings. Plus the Harings are mentioned in many many deeds, > >> wills, > >> church and court records etc. BUT I find it hard to believe that > >> a child > >> 12 years, 11 months old, married Theuniszen VanZell on 19 April > >> 1654 and > >> married by a Dutch Reformed minister. 'It don't fit' > >> > >> It was suggested that Margariet/Grietje was born earlier than her > >> brother > >> Gerrit who was bp: 20 May 1640. IF Cozyn Gerritsen Cozyn and Vroutje > >> Gerrits had a child Margariet/Grietje born say 1637, she would be > >> about 16/17 at > >> marriage, still young, but believable. BUT, if the parents had a > >> child > >> Margariet/Grietje in 1637, that child had to die young to name > >> another child > >> Margariet/Grietje on 5 May 1641. > >> > >> Any and all suggestions welcome. Best regards, Ethel Kay > >> Konight > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > >> the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Chris Brooks Kansas City, Missouri 816-363-1831