That differs greatly from "Gotham" by Edwin G Burrows and Mike Wallace. p50:  "By the mid-1650s New Netherland's population had climbed to perhaps thirty-five hundred men, women, and children; a decade later, to nine thousand.  Of that number, some fifteen hundred lived in New Amsterdam alone, roughly three times as many as Stuyvesant found fifteen years earlier.  Only one-fourth of the town's three hundred adult white males could claim to have lived there longer than he had.............By the mid-1660s, indeed, only 40 percent of New Netherland's population was actually Dutch, while 19 percent was German and 15 percent English." Dee in Phoenix When a person dies, a library closes. Researching: NJ: Snook, Bozarth, Dickerson, Dalton, Hicks, Asay NY: Semlear, Stoothoff, Foster, Murray, Dierks, Cairns PA: Hicks, Shaw, Roberts, Swartz/Black, Penrose Nova Scotia: Arthur, Hutt, Eisenhauer, Conrod, Morris --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Howard Swain <[email protected]> wrote: From: Howard Swain <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under Wouter vanTwiller To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 6:23 PM Hi James, I assume you mean 1630's, as Van Twiller was director from 1633 to 1638. All I could find so far is that in 1628 there were 270 on Manhattan. This was written by Van Wassenaer in Mar 1630 in his Historisch Verhael. It is printed in Jameson's Narratives of New Netherland on p. 89. >From Gotham by Burrows and Wallace -- p. 29:  "Van Twiller arrived in 1633 with a hundred-odd soldiers... p. 30:  "When Kieft stepped ashore in 1638, New Amstedam was a collection of eighty of ninety structures occupied by four hundred or so people -- not much bigger, in other words, than it had been a dozen years earlier in the days of Peter Minuit." (Unfortunately, they cite sources en masse for each section; so I don't know where they got this.) >From Eric Homberger's The Historical Atlas of New York City, p.28 -- "The population of the colony (Manhattan and surrounding farms) was estimated to be between 400 and 500 by 1643." He also cites sources en masse, and like the above book he merely cites the whole book -- no page nos. My impression is that what increased the population significantly was making the Freedoms and Exemptions more friendly to colonists.  And to try to actually have colonists instead of mere employees.  This was done by the DWIC, not by Van Twiller.  I don't think Van Twiller made policy.  And it happened after his time anyway, as I recall. Regards, Howard [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Nevius" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under Wouter vanTwiller Greetings group, Does anyone have a good source for the population of New Amsterdam during the 1830s, the Director-Generalship of Van Twiller? Conventional wisdom is that his policies on immigration increased the size of the colony--but I'd like some hard numbers if they are available. Many thanks, James ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, I did mean 1630s -- the 1830s were a fascinating period in NYC, featuring, among other things, a cholera outbreak and the first mayor of the city elected directly by the people, but that's not the topic at hand. :-) Howard--thanks for those references. I knew the 270 figure from Jameson (and other sources), but I'll start tracking down where Burrows/Wallace got their "four hundred or so" people for 1638. Thanks, James * * * * James Nevius author of "Inside the Apple: A Streetwise History of New York City" “A smart and entertaining window on the city of the past.” —The New York Times http://www.insidetheapple.net And don't forget to read our NYC history blog at http://blog.insidetheapple.net On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Dee <[email protected]> wrote: > That differs greatly from "Gotham" by Edwin G Burrows and Mike Wallace. > p50: "By the mid-1650s New Netherland's population had climbed to perhaps > thirty-five hundred men, women, and children; a decade later, to nine > thousand. Of that number, some fifteen hundred lived in New Amsterdam > alone, roughly three times as many as Stuyvesant found fifteen years > earlier. Only one-fourth of the town's three hundred adult white males > could claim to have lived there longer than he had.............By the > mid-1660s, indeed, only 40 percent of New Netherland's population was > actually Dutch, while 19 percent was German and 15 percent English." > Dee in Phoenix > > When a person dies, a library closes. > Researching: > NJ: Snook, Bozarth, Dickerson, Dalton, Hicks, Asay > NY: Semlear, Stoothoff, Foster, Murray, Dierks, Cairns > PA: Hicks, Shaw, Roberts, Swartz/Black, Penrose > Nova Scotia: Arthur, Hutt, Eisenhauer, Conrod, Morris > > --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Howard Swain <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Howard Swain <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under Wouter > vanTwiller > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 6:23 PM > > > Hi James, > > I assume you mean 1630's, as Van Twiller was director from > 1633 to 1638. > > All I could find so far is that in 1628 there were 270 on Manhattan. > This was written by Van Wassenaer in Mar 1630 in his Historisch Verhael. > It is printed in Jameson's Narratives of New Netherland on p. 89. > > >From Gotham by Burrows and Wallace -- > p. 29: "Van Twiller arrived in 1633 with a hundred-odd soldiers... > p. 30: "When Kieft stepped ashore in 1638, New Amstedam was a collection > of > eighty of ninety structures occupied by four hundred or so people -- not > much > bigger, in other words, than it had been a dozen years earlier in the days > of Peter Minuit." > (Unfortunately, they cite sources en masse for each section; so I don't > know where they got this.) > > >From Eric Homberger's The Historical Atlas of New York City, p.28 -- > "The population of the colony (Manhattan and surrounding farms) was > estimated to be between 400 and 500 by 1643." > He also cites sources en masse, and like the above book he merely > cites the whole book -- no page nos. > > > My impression is that what increased the population significantly was > making the Freedoms and Exemptions more friendly to colonists. And > to try to actually have colonists instead of mere employees. This was done > by the DWIC, not by Van Twiller. I don't think Van Twiller made > policy. And it happened after his time anyway, as I recall. > > Regards, > Howard > [email protected] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Nevius" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:28 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under Wouter > vanTwiller > > > Greetings group, > > Does anyone have a good source for the population of New Amsterdam during > the 1830s, the Director-Generalship of Van Twiller? Conventional wisdom is > that his policies on immigration increased the size of the colony--but I'd > like some hard numbers if they are available. > > Many thanks, > James > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi James, I found one source of 400 to 500, but it is in 1643. This is from Novum Belgium by Father Isaac Jogues, written in 1646. He was a Jesuit missionary. He vistied New Amsterdam in 1643. "On the island of Manhate, and in its environs, there may well be four or five hundred men of different sects and nations..." This is also in Jameson's Narratives of New Netherland, p. 259. I don't know what to make of the reference to "men". Could that include women and children, too? Regards, Howard [email protected] From: "James Nevius" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under WoutervanTwiller Yes, I did mean 1630s -- the 1830s were a fascinating period in NYC, featuring, among other things, a cholera outbreak and the first mayor of the city elected directly by the people, but that's not the topic at hand. :-) Howard--thanks for those references. I knew the 270 figure from Jameson (and other sources), but I'll start tracking down where Burrows/Wallace got their "four hundred or so" people for 1638. Thanks, James * * * * James Nevius author of "Inside the Apple: A Streetwise History of New York City" “A smart and entertaining window on the city of the past.” —The New York Times http://www.insidetheapple.net And don't forget to read our NYC history blog at http://blog.insidetheapple.net On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Dee <[email protected]> wrote: > That differs greatly from "Gotham" by Edwin G Burrows and Mike Wallace. > p50: "By the mid-1650s New Netherland's population had climbed to perhaps > thirty-five hundred men, women, and children; a decade later, to nine > thousand. Of that number, some fifteen hundred lived in New Amsterdam > alone, roughly three times as many as Stuyvesant found fifteen years > earlier. Only one-fourth of the town's three hundred adult white males > could claim to have lived there longer than he had.............By the > mid-1660s, indeed, only 40 percent of New Netherland's population was > actually Dutch, while 19 percent was German and 15 percent English." > Dee in Phoenix > > When a person dies, a library closes. > Researching: > NJ: Snook, Bozarth, Dickerson, Dalton, Hicks, Asay > NY: Semlear, Stoothoff, Foster, Murray, Dierks, Cairns > PA: Hicks, Shaw, Roberts, Swartz/Black, Penrose > Nova Scotia: Arthur, Hutt, Eisenhauer, Conrod, Morris > > --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Howard Swain <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Howard Swain <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Population of New Amsterdam under Wouter > vanTwiller > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 6:23 PM > > > Hi James, > > I assume you mean 1630's, as Van Twiller was director from > 1633 to 1638. > > All I could find so far is that in 1628 there were 270 on Manhattan. > This was written by Van Wassenaer in Mar 1630 in his Historisch Verhael. > It is printed in Jameson's Narratives of New Netherland on p. 89. > > >From Gotham by Burrows and Wallace -- > p. 29: "Van Twiller arrived in 1633 with a hundred-odd soldiers... > p. 30: "When Kieft stepped ashore in 1638, New Amstedam was a collection > of > eighty of ninety structures occupied by four hundred or so people -- not > much > bigger, in other words, than it had been a dozen years earlier in the days > of Peter Minuit." > (Unfortunately, they cite sources en masse for each section; so I don't > know where they got this.) > > >From Eric Homberger's The Historical Atlas of New York City, p.28 -- > "The population of the colony (Manhattan and surrounding farms) was > estimated to be between 400 and 500 by 1643." > He also cites sources en masse, and like the above book he merely > cites the whole book -- no page nos. > > > My impression is that what increased the population significantly was > making the Freedoms and Exemptions more friendly to colonists. And > to try to actually have colonists instead of mere employees. This was > done > by the DWIC, not by Van Twiller. I don't think Van Twiller made > policy. And it happened after his time anyway, as I recall. > > Regards, > Howard > [email protected]