It seems that many of the earlier New Amsterdam ministers did not record the mother's name. I find that unusual --in Amsterdam (for example) the mother's name was always included in the records of the Dutch church, and believe also in the French church there. The Luthers in Amsteram didn't seem to be comcerned with who the mother was until sometime later In New Amsterdam later (mid-1650's, maybe, if your Stoutenbergs are an indication), the mother's names were included. Sometimes the mothers were recorded under their maiden names (correct), but in other records their surnames were recorded as some form of their husband's names -- the so-called "husband-nym", a term coined by someone years ago here on D-Col. Liz J On 25 March 2013 18:40, Dawn <dgoldens3@aol.com> wrote: > Thank you! Is it normal that no mother is listed? > > Dawn > > Sent from my iPad > > On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:52 PM, ekipp@rogers.com wrote: > > > I have this item which may be of interest. > > Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, Vol > II. > > Baptisms from 1639 to 1730 in the Reformed Dutch Church, New York. > > New York, 1901. Reprinted 1968. > > P. 33 1653 5 Jan Pieter Stoutenburg parent, Engeltje child, no > witnesses. Minister Joannes Megapolensis. > > > > Engeltie Stoutenburg would be my 8th Great-Grandaunt. > > > > Regards > > Edward Kipp > > > >> From the banks of the Ottawa River, river of the voyageurs! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> > > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:02:04 PM > > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family > > > > > > Good Morning, > > > > I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. > Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. > > > > She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible > birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. > > > > I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be > great. > > > > Thanks, > > Dawn Christenson > > Wisconsin > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That is very interesting.... I like when mother's maiden name is mentioned Sent from my iPad On Mar 25, 2013, at 5:59 PM, E Johnson <iris.gates@gmail.com> wrote: > It seems that many of the earlier New Amsterdam ministers did not record > the mother's name. I find that unusual --in Amsterdam (for example) the > mother's name was always included in the records of the Dutch church, and > believe also in the French church there. The Luthers in Amsteram didn't > seem to be comcerned with who the mother was until sometime later > > In New Amsterdam later (mid-1650's, maybe, if your Stoutenbergs are an > indication), the mother's names were included. Sometimes the mothers were > recorded under their maiden names (correct), but in other records their > surnames were recorded as some form of their husband's names -- the > so-called "husband-nym", a term coined by someone years ago here on D-Col. > > Liz J > > On 25 March 2013 18:40, Dawn <dgoldens3@aol.com> wrote: > >> Thank you! Is it normal that no mother is listed? >> >> Dawn >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:52 PM, ekipp@rogers.com wrote: >> >>> I have this item which may be of interest. >>> Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, Vol >> II. >>> Baptisms from 1639 to 1730 in the Reformed Dutch Church, New York. >>> New York, 1901. Reprinted 1968. >>> P. 33 1653 5 Jan Pieter Stoutenburg parent, Engeltje child, no >> witnesses. Minister Joannes Megapolensis. >>> >>> Engeltie Stoutenburg would be my 8th Great-Grandaunt. >>> >>> Regards >>> Edward Kipp >>> >>>> From the banks of the Ottawa River, river of the voyageurs! >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> >>> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >>> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:02:04 PM >>> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family >>> >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. >> Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. >>> >>> She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible >> birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. >>> >>> I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be >> great. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Dawn Christenson >>> Wisconsin >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you! Is it normal that no mother is listed? Dawn Sent from my iPad On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:52 PM, ekipp@rogers.com wrote: > I have this item which may be of interest. > Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, Vol II. > Baptisms from 1639 to 1730 in the Reformed Dutch Church, New York. > New York, 1901. Reprinted 1968. > P. 33 1653 5 Jan Pieter Stoutenburg parent, Engeltje child, no witnesses. Minister Joannes Megapolensis. > > Engeltie Stoutenburg would be my 8th Great-Grandaunt. > > Regards > Edward Kipp > >> From the banks of the Ottawa River, river of the voyageurs! > > > ________________________________ > From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:02:04 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family > > > Good Morning, > > I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. > > She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. > > I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be great. > > Thanks, > Dawn Christenson > Wisconsin > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My William Waldron was the son of Resolved Waldron. I know that Resolved did emigrate from Holland. Dawn -----Original Message----- From: Bill Forshay <billforshay@yahoo.com> To: dutch-colonies <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 12:13 pm Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family Dawn: When was your William Waldron born? I have one born 10 Feb 1646/47 in msterdam, Holland. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:02 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family Good Morning, I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. Her ame was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible birthdate or Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks, Dawn Christenson Wisconsin ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

I have this item which may be of interest.  Collections of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, Vol II. Baptisms from 1639 to 1730 in the Reformed Dutch Church, New York. New York, 1901. Reprinted 1968. P. 33 1653 5 Jan Pieter Stoutenburg parent, Engeltje child, no witnesses. Minister Joannes Megapolensis. Engeltie Stoutenburg would be my 8th Great-Grandaunt. Regards Edward Kipp From the banks of the Ottawa River, river of the voyageurs! ________________________________ From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:02:04 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family Good Morning, I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother.  Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG.  She married William Waldron.  I have found a reference of a possible birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. I am not that familiar with Dutch records.  Any suggestions would be great. Thanks, Dawn Christenson Wisconsin ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janice, I am fascinated by the Van Cleef line; I descend from Neeltje who married Kryn Janse Van Meter (various spellings) through a tangled web of Van Meters to the Cartmells of Virginia and Ohio. If we have any common ancestors would you be interested in sharing data? Jo Culberson On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:01 AM, <dutch-colonies-request@rootsweb.com>wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers > (W David Samuelsen) > 2. Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg (Janice Pranger) > 3. Re: Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg (cor snabel) > 4. Re: Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers (juliasgenes) > 5. Re: Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers > (W David Samuelsen) > 6. Given name question: Christophel, Christopher, Christian > (juliasgenes) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: W David Samuelsen <dsam52@sampubco.com> > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 02:11:46 -0600 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers > Hope you won't pull your hairs off your head when you try Ulster County's > backwardish filming of probate files > > The index card is at the end of each file, rather than the start then go > backward because the next sheet is not at the beginning but at the end, > right before the index card, 3rd sheet likwise before 2nd, so on. > > David Samuelsen > > On 3/24/2013 12:53 AM, James Harder wrote: > >> I know that Wyoming is not the only county that has numerous old >> documents stacked in boxes in a back room! >> >> Jim >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Janice Pranger <jan.pranger@sbcglobal.net> > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg > Hello List, > > I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information about the > descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found a 17 Jul 2000 > response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. > > Searched but couldn't find the source for this connection between the Van > Cleef > family and this particular area of the Netherlands. Can someone tell me > where > to find this? > > > Many thanks, > > Jan Pranger > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: cor snabel <cor.snabel@gmail.com> > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:38:38 +0100 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg > Hello Janice, > > > I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information about > the > > descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found a 17 Jul > 2000 > > response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. > > My mail in July 2000 was a response to a query of Bryce Stevens who > wrote "Peelt, Limburg, the Van Cleef home town". > I know he is still around, I remember seeing a message from him > earlier this year. Maybe he can shed some light on this. > > Regards > Cor Snabel > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> > To: "dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com" <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:23:09 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers > Are the majority of Ulster's probate records filmed and online or through > Sampubco, even if backwards, or were some abandoned unsorted in those > storage boxes? > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: W David Samuelsen <dsam52@sampubco.com> > > > > . . .Ulster County's backwardish filming of probate files. . . > > > =========================================================== > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: W David Samuelsen <dsam52@sampubco.com> > To: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com>, dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 17:33:41 -0600 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers > not sure if all online and NOT through SAMPUBCO. > > As for the meaning of majority of probate records, there is the matter of > Estate Tax Records which is more detailed than the probate files, not every > county have theirs available to the public yet. At least Orange and > Westchester counties have them online. New York estate tax started in 1885. > > David Samuelsen > > On 3/24/2013 3:23 PM, juliasgenes wrote: > >> Are the majority of Ulster's probate records filmed and online or through >> Sampubco, even if backwards, or were some abandoned unsorted in those >> storage boxes? >> >> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> > To: "dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com" <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Cc: > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:27:43 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Given name question: Christophel, Christopher, > Christian > I know that the Sensebachs (w/numerous & imaginative spelling variations) > are Palatine, not Dutch, but they lived within the Dutch sphere and perhaps > given names followed Dutch traditions. > > > A 2nd generation son of Johann Philip Sensebach appears as Christophel, > Christopher, and Christian in records. Are these names equivalents? Is > Christian a Dutchified or Anglicized version of Christophel/ Christopher? > Is Stoffel a related name, perhaps a nickname for Christophel? The man's > daughter, Catharina, married Johann Jost Frantz and had a son they named > Christian. Apparently a namesake? > > Thank you. > > > To contact the DUTCH-COLONIES list administrator, send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the DUTCH-COLONIES mailing list, send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > >

Dawn, Here's her family. The second Engeltie here is the one who married William Waldron. The format goes: Date, father, [mother, in the later records], child, witnesses. 1651 Aug 20; Pieter Stoutenburg; Engeltje; Rachel Van Tienhoven 1653 Jan 05; Pieter Stoutenburg; Engeltie; 1654 Dec 13; Pieter Stoutenburg; (no name given); 1656 Aug 30; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aeltie Van Tienhoven; Jannetie; Rachel Vinge 1658 May 08; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aefje Van Tienhoven; Wyntie; Fredrick Lubbertszen, Tryntje Hendricks, Belitje Cornelis 1660 Jan 18; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aefje Van Tienhoven; Tobias; Judith Stuyvesant 1662 Oct 15; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aefie Van Tienhoven; Wyntie; 1666 Jan 10; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aefje Van Tienhoven; Lucas; Jan Vinge, Sara Roelofs 1668 Sep 26; Pieter Stoutenburg, Aechtie Van Tienhoven; Isaac; Jacob Kip, Tryntie Roelofs Note that none of these records include the prefix 'Van' for Pieter Stoutenburg. I got these baptisms from an online presentation < http://www.ancestralcurios.com/cgi-bin/FileShow.pl?zipfile=NA_DRC_bap.zip>, but you may want to check for accuracy and page numbers in this book: Samuel S. Purple, Editor; _Records of the Reformed Dutch Church in New Amsterdam and New York; Marriages from 11 December, 1639 to 16 August, 1801_; Volume I (1890). The online databases are easy to search, but the reason you want to double-check in the book is because in the online presentation, certain details had been altered in the 20th century, in cases where the editor made changes such as adding the surname of a married female baptism witness, or such as adding terms like 'quad' (quadruplet). In the 17th century, the odds of giving birth to quads who lived even long enough to be baptized were probably almost nonexistent. You can buy a recent reissue of Purple's book from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Samuel-S.-Purple/e/B001KHIAE0 Liz J On 25 March 2013 12:02, Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> wrote: > > Good Morning, > > I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. > Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. > > She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible > birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. > > I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be > great. > > Thanks, > Dawn Christenson > Wisconsin >

Good Morning, I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother. Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG. She married William Waldron. I have found a reference of a possible birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. I am not that familiar with Dutch records. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks, Dawn Christenson Wisconsin

Dawn:  When was your William Waldron born? I have one born 10 Feb 1646/47 in Amsterdam, Holland.            Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: Dawner <dgoldens3@aol.com> >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:02 AM >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] STOUTENBURG Family > > >Good Morning, > >I have been trying to find more information on my 9th great grandmother.  Her name was Engeltje VAN STOUTENBURG.  > >She married William Waldron.  I have found a reference of a possible birthdate for Engeltje for 1653 in New Amsterdam. > >I am not that familiar with Dutch records.  Any suggestions would be great. > >Thanks, >Dawn Christenson >Wisconsin > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I see that the Amsterdam archive has added a new online database called the Confessieboeken 1534-1731. I am not sure exactly what these contain but from scanning the documentation it appears the "Confession Books" were transcripts of interrogations of suspects. The search is the same as for other database but the documents are more similar to the transportakten and the notary records. You should be able to locate you persons name in the records even if you don't understand what the document is about. It's very interesting that the records generally give the approximate age and possible birthplace ot the interrogant. I hope you find this helpful as I have found the record of Pieter Carstensen, father of Pieter Pietersen Ostander of Hurley, New York mentioned in one of the records. Chris Chris Brooks Kansas City, Missouri 816-363-1831

Hello Cor and Janice, My records show Jan Van Cleef as born in Amsterdam, about 1628 (Wilson Ledley, "Van Cleef Family). My line descends through Marya Van Cleef, daughter of Louwerens Van Cleef and Jannetje Lane (Laen, Lanen) whose ancestors were from Peelt, Limburg. It is entirely possible that I was writing Van Cleef and thinking Lanen van Pelt back then. I apologize for the confusion. Bryce Stevens -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cor snabel Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:39 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg Hello Janice, > I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information > about the descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found > a 17 Jul 2000 response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. My mail in July 2000 was a response to a query of Bryce Stevens who wrote "Peelt, Limburg, the Van Cleef home town". I know he is still around, I remember seeing a message from him earlier this year. Maybe he can shed some light on this. Regards Cor Snabel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Stoffel is a diminutive for Christophel (Christopher - "Christ -bearing" in Greek). It can also be seen as a diminutive for Theophilus ("god-loving", "friend of god"). There are cases where the same individual might be seen as either Christophel or Theophilus, as "Stoffel" or "Stophel" can be a diminutive for either. Christian is a different name and can be either male or female (Christianus - Latin for "follower of Christ"). Technically speaking Christian and Christopher are different names. Chris Chester On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:27 AM, juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> wrote: > I know that the Sensebachs (w/numerous & imaginative spelling variations) > are Palatine, not Dutch, but they lived within the Dutch sphere and perhaps > given names followed Dutch traditions. > > > A 2nd generation son of Johann Philip Sensebach appears as Christophel, > Christopher, and Christian in records. Are these names equivalents? Is > Christian a Dutchified or Anglicized version of Christophel/ Christopher? > Is Stoffel a related name, perhaps a nickname for Christophel? The man's > daughter, Catharina, married Johann Jost Frantz and had a son they named > Christian. Apparently a namesake? > > Thank you. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Bryce & Cor, Thank you for responding.  This makes sense.  I had been looking for anything that might be new since Ledley, and this caught me eye as a possibility.  I'm descended from Isabrant/Aaron/William. Jan ________________________________ From: BStevens <brycestevens@comcast.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, March 25, 2013 7:18:39 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg Hello Cor and Janice, My records show Jan Van Cleef as born in Amsterdam, about 1628 (Wilson Ledley, "Van Cleef Family).  My line descends through Marya Van Cleef, daughter of Louwerens Van Cleef and Jannetje Lane (Laen, Lanen) whose ancestors were from Peelt, Limburg.  It is entirely possible that I was writing Van Cleef and thinking Lanen van Pelt back then.  I apologize for the confusion. Bryce Stevens -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cor snabel Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:39 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Van Cleef and de Peel, Limburg Hello Janice, > I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information > about the descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found > a 17 Jul 2000 response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. My mail in July 2000 was a response to a query of Bryce Stevens who wrote "Peelt, Limburg, the Van Cleef home town". I know he is still around, I remember seeing a message from him earlier this year. Maybe he can shed some light on this. Regards Cor Snabel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I know that the Sensebachs (w/numerous & imaginative spelling variations) are Palatine, not Dutch, but they lived within the Dutch sphere and perhaps given names followed Dutch traditions. A 2nd generation son of Johann Philip Sensebach appears as Christophel, Christopher, and Christian in records. Are these names equivalents? Is Christian a Dutchified or Anglicized version of Christophel/ Christopher? Is Stoffel a related name, perhaps a nickname for Christophel? The man's daughter, Catharina, married Johann Jost Frantz and had a son they named Christian. Apparently a namesake? Thank you.

Hello Janice, > I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information about the > descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found a 17 Jul 2000 > response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. My mail in July 2000 was a response to a query of Bryce Stevens who wrote "Peelt, Limburg, the Van Cleef home town". I know he is still around, I remember seeing a message from him earlier this year. Maybe he can shed some light on this. Regards Cor Snabel

not sure if all online and NOT through SAMPUBCO. As for the meaning of majority of probate records, there is the matter of Estate Tax Records which is more detailed than the probate files, not every county have theirs available to the public yet. At least Orange and Westchester counties have them online. New York estate tax started in 1885. David Samuelsen On 3/24/2013 3:23 PM, juliasgenes wrote: > Are the majority of Ulster's probate records filmed and online or through Sampubco, even if backwards, or were some abandoned unsorted in those storage boxes? >

Are the majority of Ulster's probate records filmed and online or through Sampubco, even if backwards, or were some abandoned unsorted in those storage boxes? ________________________________ > > From: W David Samuelsen <dsam52@sampubco.com> > > . . .Ulster County's backwardish filming of probate files. . . > ===========================================================

Hello List, I have been searching the Dutch Colonies Archives for information about the descendants of Jan Van Cleef and Engeltje Laurens, and found a 17 Jul 2000 response from Cor Snabel about the Van Cleef roots in "de Peel", Limburg. Searched but couldn't find the source for this connection between the Van Cleef family and this particular area of the Netherlands.  Can someone tell me where to find this?  Many thanks, Jan Pranger

Hope you won't pull your hairs off your head when you try Ulster County's backwardish filming of probate files The index card is at the end of each file, rather than the start then go backward because the next sheet is not at the beginning but at the end, right before the index card, 3rd sheet likwise before 2nd, so on. David Samuelsen On 3/24/2013 12:53 AM, James Harder wrote: > I know that Wyoming is not the only county that has numerous old documents stacked in boxes in a back room! > > Jim

WDS, Some of us have learned that your indexes are a helpful shortcut to finding recorded documents on FamilySearch.  I'm sure that was not the purpose of your work, but thank you. I was simply pointing out without any criticism intended that your NY County will index indicates: RUTGERS, HARMAN NYC NY-31-8-38 The online Liber 8 has the old recording of the will of Harman Rutgers on Page 32, and I see now there is a much later copy on a Page 38 at the back.  Both copies of the Probate include the language in question: "well and truely administring" which you found in the later document. I'm not a big fan of will abstracts or modern transcriptions, but any rendering that can get us to the original language and intent of our ancestors is greatly appreciated. I know that Wyoming is not the only county that has numerous old documents stacked in boxes in a back room! Jim ________________________________ From: W David Samuelsen <dsam52@sampubco.com> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Catharin de Hooges, wife of Harmanus Rutgers James Harder, Actually the index is correct. I sent a rebuke message to the team who scanned and SPLICED two volumes and passed them off as one volume, and noticed they did same for all volumes up to volume 44. One set, Wills and administrations (New York County, New York), 1680-1804 The other set (the one I am still indexing) is Record of wills, 1665-1916; index to wills, 1662-1923 (New York County) (the index herein is misleading and do not match any volume's pagings at all.) If you want to see the recopied volumes - go to end of each "volume" The original will books have Administrations (the one you saw) and the recopied ones do NOT have administrations recorded. And they screwed up on Wyoming Co, NY wills, labelled all as wills, not taking into account the difference of ORIGINAL Wills and the RECORD of Wills. The original wills aren't in any volume, they're in BOXES with no page numbers. Yikes! W. David Samuelsen On 3/23/2013 7:15 PM, James Harder wrote: > The original recording of the Will of Harman Rutgers dated 6 Mar 1709 is at Liber 8 Page 32 (incorrectly indexed at Sampubco): > http://tinyurl.com/bv7n4m5 > > > "Lastly I do hereby nominate and appoint my said wife Catharin to be the only and sole Executrix of this my last will and Testament." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message