Hi James, They are my 8th great-grandparents and I need the same information. I also have Willem's birth about 1625 and would like a more definite date if anyone has that. My grandparents are Nevius & Schomp. Thank you everyone for all the help you have given through the years! Mell White in Mission, Kansas On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 6:28 PM, James Nevius <james.nevius@gmail.com> wrote: > Does anyone have a generally accepted date for their marriage? I'm not > seeing one in any of the records I can easily access online or in this > message boards archive. > > Thanks, > James > > * * * * > James Nevius > author of "Inside the Apple: A Streetwise History of New York City" > “A smart and entertaining window on the city of the past.” —The New York > Times > http://www.insidetheapple.net > > And don't forget to read our NYC history blog at > http://blog.insidetheapple.net > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Does anyone have a generally accepted date for their marriage? I'm not seeing one in any of the records I can easily access online or in this message boards archive. Thanks, James * * * * James Nevius author of "Inside the Apple: A Streetwise History of New York City" “A smart and entertaining window on the city of the past.” —The New York Times http://www.insidetheapple.net And don't forget to read our NYC history blog at http://blog.insidetheapple.net

HI I have this Waldron in my family branch. My great-grandmother was a Waldron. What I have is that the family came from Netherlands (Resolved), lived in New Netherlands and then my branch went to Canada for two generations. Then they (brothers) came to Wisconsin. I would love to learn more about this branch of my family. Dawn -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Forshay Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:50 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron Jim:  What is the birth date for your Joseph Waldron??? Also do you have his family? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: "jarm@nycnuts.net" <jarm@nycnuts.net> >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 4:42 PM >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > > >  Hi Cor,  Thanks for this, I'll have to check it out.  I'm a descendant of >  Joseph Waldron. > > > >  At present, the evidence now leans towards Resolve and Joseph Waldron being >  the sons of a Wlliam Waldron and Ruth Walker who were married at Amsterdam >  in  1615.  In 1634 Willem Waldron of Amsterdam, "bombasijnfriseerder," >  widower of "Ruth Waecker," married at Leiden Ann Wod (Wood).  Here's a >  timeline of William which is partially sourced: > > > >  [1]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > > > >  The record you found does sound like it might be for a near relative and >  definitely warrants more research from those of us that are interested in >  the Waldron family. > > > >  Personally, as I have dozens of ancestors who emigrated from the Netherlands >  into  New  Netherland,  I'm most  appreciative of you provided us with >  discoveries such as this.  So thanks very much! > > > >  Happy Hunting! > >  Jim Maxwell > > > > > >  -------- Original Message -------- >  Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron >  From: cor snabel <[2]cor.snabel@gmail.com> >  Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm >  To: Dutch Colonies <[3]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland >  <[4]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> >  Dear list, >  While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the >  same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. >  Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he >  could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. >  This is the record: >  31 maart 1639 >  Willem Walteringh, >  van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in >  Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje >  Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ >  nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. >  [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer >  Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot >  Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer >  [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] >  DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk >  Translation: >  31 March 1639 >  Willem Walteringh, >  from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents >  in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje >  Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, >  still having parents in Lingen >  [in the margin] 26 years old >  These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in >  Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there >  [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] >  DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church >  Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his >  signature is very clear. >  Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast >  of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. >  Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather >  of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. >  Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, >  but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in >  Amsterdam. >  Regards, >  Cor Snabel >  The Netherlands >  ------------------------------- >  To  unsubscribe  from  the  list,  please  send  an  email  to >  [5]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >  the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >References > >  1. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html >  2. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com >  3. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com >  4. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com >  5. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would try to match what you know with the Waldron genealogy given by Riker: [1]http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x001203652;view=1up;seq=7 It's been a few year since I worked on my Waldron line so I don't remember what compiled genealogies are available for this family. Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron From: <[2]dgoldens3@aol.com> Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 6:36 pm To: "'Bill Forshay'" <[3]billforshay@yahoo.com>, <[4]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> HI I have this Waldron in my family branch. My great-grandmother was a Waldron. What I have is that the family came from Netherlands (Resolved), lived in New Netherlands and then my branch went to Canada for two generations. Then they (brothers) came to Wisconsin. I would love to learn more about this branch of my family. Dawn -----Original Message----- From: [5]dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [[6]mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill Forshay Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:50 PM To: [7]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron Jim: What is the birth date for your Joseph Waldron??? Also do you have his family? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: "[8]jarm@nycnuts.net" <[9]jarm@nycnuts.net> >To: [10]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 4:42 PM >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > > > Hi Cor, Thanks for this, I'll have to check it out. I'm a descendant of > Joseph Waldron. > > > > At present, the evidence now leans towards Resolve and Joseph Waldron being > the sons of a Wlliam Waldron and Ruth Walker who were married at Amsterdam > in 1615. In 1634 Willem Waldron of Amsterdam, "bombasijnfriseerder," > widower of "Ruth Waecker," married at Leiden Ann Wod (Wood). Here's a > timeline of William which is partially sourced: > > > > [1][11]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > > > > The record you found does sound like it might be for a near relative and > definitely warrants more research from those of us that are interested in > the Waldron family. > > > > Personally, as I have dozens of ancestors who emigrated from the Netherlands > into New Netherland, I'm most appreciative of you provided us with > discoveries such as this. So thanks very much! > > > > Happy Hunting! > > Jim Maxwell > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > From: cor snabel <[2][12]cor.snabel@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm > To: Dutch Colonies <[3][13]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland > <[4][14]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> > Dear list, > While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the > same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. > Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he > could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. > This is the record: > 31 maart 1639 > Willem Walteringh, > van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in > Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje > Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ > nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. > [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer > Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot > Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer > [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] > DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk > Translation: > 31 March 1639 > Willem Walteringh, > from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents > in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje > Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, > still having parents in Lingen > [in the margin] 26 years old > These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in > Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there > [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] > DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church > Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his > signature is very clear. > Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast > of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. > Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather > of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. > Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, > but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in > Amsterdam. > Regards, > Cor Snabel > The Netherlands > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [5][15]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >References > > 1. [16]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > 2. [17]mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com > 3. [18]mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com > 4. [19]mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com > 5. [20]mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [21]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [22]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [23]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x001203652;view=1up;seq=7 2. mailto:dgoldens3@aol.com 3. mailto:billforshay@yahoo.com 4. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 5. mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com 6. mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com 7. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 8. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 9. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 10. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 11. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html 12. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 13. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 14. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 15. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 16. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html 17. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 18. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 19. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 20. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 21. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 22. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 23. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

We don't have a D.O.B for Joseph, but being that he was first married in 1639 I gave him a date of birth likely being between 1625-1619. Yes, I think we have a good list of his children, and another researcher who put all his information online has done a good job of tracing the ancestors of brothers Joseph and Resolve. I tried to find his webpage to give him credit, but I can't now find it. William Waldron, the progenitor of this line, came to the Netherlands from the vicinity of Clatford, England. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron From: Bill Forshay <[1]billforshay@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 5:49 pm To: "[2]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com" <[3]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Jim: What is the birth date for your Joseph Waldron??? Also do you have his family? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: "[4]jarm@nycnuts.net" <[5]jarm@nycnuts.net> >To: [6]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 4:42 PM >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > > > Hi Cor, Thanks for this, I'll have to check it out. I'm a descendant of > Joseph Waldron. > > > > At present, the evidence now leans towards Resolve and Joseph Waldron being > the sons of a Wlliam Waldron and Ruth Walker who were married at Amsterdam > in 1615. In 1634 Willem Waldron of Amsterdam, "bombasijnfriseerder," > widower of "Ruth Waecker," married at Leiden Ann Wod (Wood). Here's a > timeline of William which is partially sourced: > > > > [1][7]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > > > > The record you found does sound like it might be for a near relative and > definitely warrants more research from those of us that are interested in > the Waldron family. > > > > Personally, as I have dozens of ancestors who emigrated from the Netherlands > into New Netherland, I'm most appreciative of you provided us with > discoveries such as this. So thanks very much! > > > > Happy Hunting! > > Jim Maxwell > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > From: cor snabel <[2][8]cor.snabel@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm > To: Dutch Colonies <[3][9]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland > <[4][10]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> > Dear list, > While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the > same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. > Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he > could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. > This is the record: > 31 maart 1639 > Willem Walteringh, > van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in > Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje > Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ > nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. > [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer > Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot > Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer > [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] > DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk > Translation: > 31 March 1639 > Willem Walteringh, > from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents > in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje > Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, > still having parents in Lingen > [in the margin] 26 years old > These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in > Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there > [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] > DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church > Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his > signature is very clear. > Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast > of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. > Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather > of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. > Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, > but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in > Amsterdam. > Regards, > Cor Snabel > The Netherlands > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [5][11]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >References > > 1. [12]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > 2. [13]mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com > 3. [14]mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com > 4. [15]mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com > 5. [16]mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [17]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [18]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:billforshay@yahoo.com 2. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 4. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 5. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 6. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 7. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html 8. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 9. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 10. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 11. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 12. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html 13. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 14. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 15. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 16. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 17. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 18. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

Hello Bill, Cor: I have a Willem R. Waldron b: 10 Feb 1646 in Amsterdam, Holland. The > source was: The Recorder - Catskill, New York newspaper. I don't have any > other information on him. I have some Waldron's married into my family line. > That Willem is the son of Resolved Waldron, but I think the date is wrong. Willem was baptized in the Nieuwe Kerk on 28 October 1646 (file DTB43p21), sponsor was Henrickje Henrix. The difference between the date of birth and the baptism is highly unlikely; most children were baptized within a few days, sometimes even on the day they were born. Regards, Cor Snabel The Netherlands > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > > > > >________________________________ > > From: cor snabel <cor.snabel@gmail.com> > >To: Dutch Colonies <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>; New-Netherland < > NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:36 PM > >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > > > > >Dear list, > > > >While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the > >same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. > >I’m not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or > he > >could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. > >This is the record: > > > >31 maart 1639 > >Willem Walteringh, > >van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in > >Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje > >Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ > >nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. > >[in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer > >Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot > >Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer > >[ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] > >DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk > > > >Translation: > > > >31 March 1639 > >Willem Walteringh, > >from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents > >in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje > >Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, > >still having parents in Lingen > >[in the margin] 26 years old > >These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in > >Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there > >[signed] William Waldron, [her mark] > >DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church > > > >Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his > >signature is very clear. > >Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast > >of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. > > > >Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the > grandfather > >of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. > >Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, > >but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in > >Amsterdam. > > > >Regards, > >Cor Snabel > >The Netherlands > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jim:  What is the birth date for your Joseph Waldron??? Also do you have his family? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: "jarm@nycnuts.net" <jarm@nycnuts.net> >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 4:42 PM >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > > >  Hi Cor,  Thanks for this, I'll have to check it out.  I'm a descendant of >  Joseph Waldron. > > > >  At present, the evidence now leans towards Resolve and Joseph Waldron being >  the sons of a Wlliam Waldron and Ruth Walker who were married at Amsterdam >  in  1615.  In 1634 Willem Waldron of Amsterdam, "bombasijnfriseerder," >  widower of "Ruth Waecker," married at Leiden Ann Wod (Wood).  Here's a >  timeline of William which is partially sourced: > > > >  [1]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html > > > >  The record you found does sound like it might be for a near relative and >  definitely warrants more research from those of us that are interested in >  the Waldron family. > > > >  Personally, as I have dozens of ancestors who emigrated from the Netherlands >  into  New  Netherland,  I'm most  appreciative of you provided us with >  discoveries such as this.  So thanks very much! > > > >  Happy Hunting! > >  Jim Maxwell > > > > > >  -------- Original Message -------- >  Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron >  From: cor snabel <[2]cor.snabel@gmail.com> >  Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm >  To: Dutch Colonies <[3]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland >  <[4]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> >  Dear list, >  While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the >  same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. >  Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he >  could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. >  This is the record: >  31 maart 1639 >  Willem Walteringh, >  van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in >  Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje >  Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ >  nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. >  [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer >  Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot >  Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer >  [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] >  DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk >  Translation: >  31 March 1639 >  Willem Walteringh, >  from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents >  in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje >  Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, >  still having parents in Lingen >  [in the margin] 26 years old >  These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in >  Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there >  [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] >  DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church >  Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his >  signature is very clear. >  Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast >  of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. >  Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather >  of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. >  Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, >  but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in >  Amsterdam. >  Regards, >  Cor Snabel >  The Netherlands >  ------------------------------- >  To  unsubscribe  from  the  list,  please  send  an  email  to >  [5]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >  the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >References > >  1. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html >  2. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com >  3. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com >  4. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com >  5. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Dear list, While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. I’m not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. This is the record: 31 maart 1639 Willem Walteringh, van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk Translation: 31 March 1639 Willem Walteringh, from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, still having parents in Lingen [in the margin] 26 years old These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his signature is very clear. Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in Amsterdam. Regards, Cor Snabel The Netherlands

Thinking that this William Waldron is perhaps a near cousin of Joseph and Resolve, I'm now searching the Amsterdam baptism indexes for a mother named "Ael* Ger* and a father named "willem"---this search should return all possible matches. I'll let you know if I find anything! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron From: cor snabel <[1]cor.snabel@gmail.com> Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm To: Dutch Colonies <[2]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland <[3]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> Dear list, While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. This is the record: 31 maart 1639 Willem Walteringh, van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk Translation: 31 March 1639 Willem Walteringh, from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, still having parents in Lingen [in the margin] 26 years old These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his signature is very clear. Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in Amsterdam. Regards, Cor Snabel The Netherlands ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [4]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 2. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 4. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

Hi Cor, Thanks for this, I'll have to check it out. I'm a descendant of Joseph Waldron. At present, the evidence now leans towards Resolve and Joseph Waldron being the sons of a Wlliam Waldron and Ruth Walker who were married at Amsterdam in 1615. In 1634 Willem Waldron of Amsterdam, "bombasijnfriseerder," widower of "Ruth Waecker," married at Leiden Ann Wod (Wood). Here's a timeline of William which is partially sourced: [1]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html The record you found does sound like it might be for a near relative and definitely warrants more research from those of us that are interested in the Waldron family. Personally, as I have dozens of ancestors who emigrated from the Netherlands into New Netherland, I'm most appreciative of you provided us with discoveries such as this. So thanks very much! Happy Hunting! Jim Maxwell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron From: cor snabel <[2]cor.snabel@gmail.com> Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:36 pm To: Dutch Colonies <[3]Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>, New-Netherland <[4]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> Dear list, While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. Iâm not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. This is the record: 31 maart 1639 Willem Walteringh, van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. [in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer [ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk Translation: 31 March 1639 Willem Walteringh, from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, still having parents in Lingen [in the margin] 26 years old These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there [signed] William Waldron, [her mark] DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his signature is very clear. Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, but unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in Amsterdam. Regards, Cor Snabel The Netherlands ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [5]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/waldron/william1589/index.html 2. mailto:cor.snabel@gmail.com 3. mailto:Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com 4. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 5. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

Cor:  I have a Willem R. Waldron b: 10 Feb 1646 in Amsterdam, Holland. The source was: The Recorder - Catskill, New York newspaper. I don't have any other information on him. I have some Waldron's married into my family line.                 Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >________________________________ > From: cor snabel <cor.snabel@gmail.com> >To: Dutch Colonies <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com>; New-Netherland <NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:36 PM >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] William Waldron > > >Dear list, > >While transcribing a record from the Amsterdam Archives I noticed on the >same page the marriage intention of a William Waldron. >I’m not familiair with the Waldron family, so maybe this is old news, or he >could belong to a different branch of the family than Resolved and Joseph. >This is the record: > >31 maart 1639 >Willem Walteringh, >van Grootshuysen, barbier, noch ouders in >Engel~ hebbend, woon~ op de Zeedyck & Aeltje >Gerrits van Lingen, out 28 jaer, woon~ als voorn~ >nog ouders hebbend tot Lingen. >[in de kantlyn] out 26 jaer >Dese personen syn getrout den 17 April 1639 tot >Amstelveen, door Simon Wilmerdonx pred~ aldaer >[ondertekend] William Waldron, [haar merk] >DTB 450p243 - Huwelijksintekeningen in de kerk > >Translation: > >31 March 1639 >Willem Walteringh, >from Grosthuysen, barber, still having parents >in England, living on the Zeedyk, & Aeltje >Gerrits from Lingen, 28 years old, living as above, >still having parents in Lingen >[in the margin] 26 years old >These persons are married on 17 April 1639 in >Amstelveen by Simon Wilmerdonx, minister there >[signed] William Waldron, [her mark] >DTB 450p243 Marriage intentions in the church > >Although the clerk or the minister spelled his name incorrectly, his >signature is very clear. >Grosthuizen is a village a few miles north of Amsterdam close to the coast >of the former Zuiderzee, just a little south-west of Hoorn. > >Being born in abt. 1613 and having the same name William as the grandfather >of Resolved and Joseph ....... He fits, but there is no proof. >Usually sponsors at baptisms can be very helpful to prove relationships, >but  unfortunately I did not find any children for this couple in >Amsterdam. > >Regards, >Cor Snabel >The Netherlands > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

My friends, This link might bring you to nice reading material about the colonial Dutch style cupboards our ancestors might have used in early and later times. Thanks to the wonderful Metropolitan Museum of New York you can read/download this wonderful art history- material freely. Enloy! Willem http://www.metmuseum.org/research/metpublications/American_Kasten_The_Dutch_Style_Cupboards_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey_1650_1800?Tag=&title=&author=&pt=&tc=&dept=&fmt=

Willem, thank you so much for this link. I just started looking for info on Kas construction earlier this week. This could not have been more timely! Kathy ---- Willem Rabbeljee <ola@lambertsz.net> wrote: > My friends, > This link might bring you to nice reading material about the colonial Dutch > style cupboards our ancestors might have used in early and later times. > Thanks to the wonderful Metropolitan Museum of New York you can > read/download this wonderful art history- material freely. > Enloy! > > Willem > > http://www.metmuseum.org/research/metpublications/American_Kasten_The_Dutch_Style_Cupboards_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey_1650_1800?Tag=&title=&author=&pt=&tc=&dept=&fmt= > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Howard, Thanks for the good points and the lead---I haven't yet read the Article by D.H. Truscott, and will definitely check it out. Sorry, as I kind of misspoke... A more accurate telling of what Stoke says is that the maps from the Jessie de Forest Journal, which have been attributed to LaMontagne, resemble the Manatvs Map. SEE Stokes, vol II, page 118 [1]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000287.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Beside the maps from the deforest Journal, which also include water color paintings, there are maps in the collection of the WIC also attributed to LaMontagne (these might be the same or similar drafts of the Journal Maps). Here's a long list of Sources (with links to digital versions) that some of you might find useful. [2]http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/lamontagne/sources/index.html I'm hoping to write a piece on LaMontagne and you list members are proving to be great help! Thanks Again! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Manatus maps, etc. (was: Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist???) From: "Howard Swain" <[3]hswain@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, June 18, 2013 2:47 pm To: <[4]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Hi Jim and all, I didnât see that Stokes mentioned La Montagne re. the 1639 Manatus maps, but I could have missed it. His discussion is here: [5]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000452.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= [This is actually page 181.] As he says, what we have today is two copies made by someone unknown. You can see them in the pages preceding the above link. Youâve probably see the article by Dorothy Hayden Truscott, âWho Drew the Manatus Map?â in NYGBR vol 124, no. 4 (Oct 1993), pp. 217-220. She discusses La Montagne. Back to Stokes. See: [6]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000430.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= and the following pages. He discusses that the surviving Manatus maps, the âCastello planâ, and what he calls the Prototype View (the scene like the one that strated this discussion) are all copies. And probably made in Holland. Regards, Howard [7]hswain@ix.netcom.com From: [8]jarm@nycnuts.net Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:00 AM To: [9]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? Thanks Howard! Thant was great input. I believe, if I remember correctly, Stoke mentions LaMontagne as being the possible drafter of the ORIGINAL Manatvs Map, of which only supposed copies exist. I have read some of Joep de Koening's comments on this image, but I don't think I saw that article. I think I might try to contact him after I do a little more work. I have tried some to obtain samples of Augustijn Herrman's handwriting, but have only, as yet, seeing mention of his signature, which by itself might help. I will take another look at the Visscher Map. There was a book released in 2010 which contained the maps of the WIC and that work had several maps attributed to LaMontagne, but I can't find a library that carries it, including the NYPL, or the Family History Library. Thanks Howard---your input has served me well! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: "Howard Swain" <[1][10]hswain@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 10:37 am To: <[2][11]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Hi Jim and James, The picture you show appears to be the same one as was used on the cover of The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto. He mentions it briefly on p. 218. One source he cites for his comments is an article by Joep de Koening, âFrom Van der Donck to Visscherâ in Mercatorâs World 5, no. 4 (July/August 2000). There is a similar painting as the frontispiece of I. N. P. Stokesâ Iconography of Manhattan Island ..., vol. 1. You can see it here: [3][12]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_58 0072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000006.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Stokes has a long discussion of this starting on p. 119. (Augustine Herrman is mentioned on p. 121.) He discusses the possible date of the view on p. 122 in the paragraph beginning âFrom the foregoing facts,â He says on p. 121 that the author of this view is unknown. Of course that was in 1915. The plates before p. 119 show several other maps and views of New Amsterdam and New Netherland. Including the Visscher map (plate 7-b), which has a similar picture as a little inset at the bottom. See discussion on p. 147-8. I just quickly skimmed these discussions, but it appears to me that Stokes thinks all of the similar views he shows were copies made from some now lost original. Also, note plate 1: [4][13]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_58 0072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000174.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Discussed on pp. 131-5. The date depicted is â1626-8?â Regards, Howard [5][14]hswain@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [15]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000287.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left 2. http://nycnuts.net/ancestors/lamontagne/sources/index.html 3. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 4. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 5. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000452.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left 6. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000430.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left 7. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 8. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 9. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 10. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 11. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 12. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 13. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 14. mailto:hswain@ix.netcom.com 15. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com

Hi Jim and all, I didn’t see that Stokes mentioned La Montagne re. the 1639 Manatus maps, but I could have missed it. His discussion is here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000452.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= [This is actually page 181.] As he says, what we have today is two copies made by someone unknown. You can see them in the pages preceding the above link. You’ve probably see the article by Dorothy Hayden Truscott, “Who Drew the Manatus Map?” in NYGBR vol 124, no. 4 (Oct 1993), pp. 217-220. She discusses La Montagne. Back to Stokes. See: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_002/pages/ldpd_5800727_002_00000430.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= and the following pages. He discusses that the surviving Manatus maps, the “Castello plan”, and what he calls the Prototype View (the scene like the one that strated this discussion) are all copies. And probably made in Holland. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com From: jarm@nycnuts.net Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:00 AM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? Thanks Howard! Thant was great input. I believe, if I remember correctly, Stoke mentions LaMontagne as being the possible drafter of the ORIGINAL Manatvs Map, of which only supposed copies exist. I have read some of Joep de Koening's comments on this image, but I don't think I saw that article. I think I might try to contact him after I do a little more work. I have tried some to obtain samples of Augustijn Herrman's handwriting, but have only, as yet, seeing mention of his signature, which by itself might help. I will take another look at the Visscher Map. There was a book released in 2010 which contained the maps of the WIC and that work had several maps attributed to LaMontagne, but I can't find a library that carries it, including the NYPL, or the Family History Library. Thanks Howard---your input has served me well! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: "Howard Swain" <[1]hswain@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 10:37 am To: <[2]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Hi Jim and James, The picture you show appears to be the same one as was used on the cover of The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto. He mentions it briefly on p. 218. One source he cites for his comments is an article by Joep de Koening, âFrom Van der Donck to Visscherâ in Mercatorâs World 5, no. 4 (July/August 2000). There is a similar painting as the frontispiece of I. N. P. Stokesâ Iconography of Manhattan Island ..., vol. 1. You can see it here: [3]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000006.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Stokes has a long discussion of this starting on p. 119. (Augustine Herrman is mentioned on p. 121.) He discusses the possible date of the view on p. 122 in the paragraph beginning âFrom the foregoing facts,â He says on p. 121 that the author of this view is unknown. Of course that was in 1915. The plates before p. 119 show several other maps and views of New Amsterdam and New Netherland. Including the Visscher map (plate 7-b), which has a similar picture as a little inset at the bottom. See discussion on p. 147-8. I just quickly skimmed these discussions, but it appears to me that Stokes thinks all of the similar views he shows were copies made from some now lost original. Also, note plate 1: [4]http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_580072 7_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000174.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&l eft= Discussed on pp. 131-5. The date depicted is â1626-8?â Regards, Howard [5]hswain@ix.netcom.com

Please define what webpage this is, and whose it is. This message doesn't even contain a signature, nor any reason why members here might want to navigate to (click on) this link. Thanks very much, Liz J On 17 June 2013 11:21, <jarm@nycnuts.net> wrote: > > Check out the updates on the New York Genealogy Page. > [1]http://nycnuts.net/nylinks/index.html > > References > > 1. http://nycnuts.net/nylinks/index.html >

Check out the updates on the New York Genealogy Page. [1]http://nycnuts.net/nylinks/index.html References 1. http://nycnuts.net/nylinks/index.html

I seem to remember from Shorto's book, that there were many copies made of the basic drawing, that is different versions by different artists copying from the original. Like these were "sales tools" almost. I know that I have seen at least three or four which were these copies/re-drawings, and I imagine there are probably many many more in collections throughout Europe. Evan Rofheart <http://www.facebook.com/DivineEnergyHealing> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Doris Waggoner <waggonerdoris@gmail.com>wrote: > I am by no means an expert on any of this. I don't remember now the > picture on Shorto's cover, so can't compare that. The two water colors > seem to me to be possible copies. The idea that they may both be of a lost > original seems feasible. The one Jim is looking at looks to me to have > been done more quickly, and is less polished than the one Howard > references. It is from the same angle, while the etching is from the other > side of the island, and shows many fewer buildings, but does show the > complete fort, not visible to my eye in the two water colors. I don't know > what that says about dating. > > What an interesting discussion and topic, even if it's not possible to come > to a definitive answer. > > Doris > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Howard Swain <hswain@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Jim and James, > > > > The picture you show appears to be the same one as was used on the cover > > of The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto. He mentions > it > > briefly on p. 218. One source he cites for his comments is an article by > > Joep de Koening, > > “From Van der Donck to Visscher” in Mercator’s World 5, no. 4 > (July/August > > 2000). > > > > There is a similar painting as the frontispiece of I. N. P. Stokes’ > > Iconography of > > Manhattan Island ..., vol. 1. You can see it here: > > > > > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000006.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= > > > > Stokes has a long discussion of this starting on p. 119. > > (Augustine Herrman is mentioned on p. 121.) > > He discusses the possible date of the view on p. 122 in the paragraph > > beginning “From the foregoing facts,” > > He says on p. 121 that the author of this view is unknown. > > Of course that was in 1915. > > > > The plates before p. 119 show several other maps and views of New > > Amsterdam and > > New Netherland. Including the Visscher map (plate 7-b), which has a > > similar picture > > as a little inset at the bottom. See discussion on p. 147-8. > > > > I just quickly skimmed these discussions, but it appears to me that > Stokes > > thinks > > all of the similar views he shows were copies made from some now lost > > original. > > > > > > Also, note plate 1: > > > > > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_001/pages/ldpd_5800727_001_00000174.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= > > Discussed on pp. 131-5. The date depicted is “1626-8?” > > > > Regards, > > Howard > > > > > > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > From: jarm@nycnuts.net > > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:48 PM > > To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com ; NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [NEW-NETHERLAND] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is > > this the artist??? > > > > Iâm trying to prove the identity of the artist behind the earliest known > > depiction of New York City (c1650). > > > > > > > > Johannes LaMontagne is said to have been New Yorkâs first accredited > > doctor, > > and held important government positions under both William Kieft and > Peter > > Stuyvesant. He built the first house in what today is known as Harlem, as > > well as being tasked with building the defensive wall for which Wall > Street > > is named. Some sources name him as the possible drafter of some of the > > early maps of New Netherland including the original âManatvs Map,â of > which > > only contemporary copies exist. > > > > > > > > Regarding the image in question⦠This watercolor, which is in the > National > > Library of Austria and titled âDe Stadt Nieuw Amsterdam gelegen op het > > Eylandt Manhattan...,â was only uncovered in the 1990s. I have done my > own > > handwriting comparison between known samples of LaMontagneâs handwriting, > > and the writing found on that watercolor, and I believe they match. There > > are also known samples of watercolors painted by LaMontagne that > accompany > > a > > journal of an expedition to Guianaâthese are housed in the National > Library > > of Great Britain. I think these could also be used for comparison. Iâm > > looking for some advice, suggestions and opinions on being a possible > > match. > > > > > > > > Below is a link to an image of the watercolor in question as well as a > link > > to a sample of my handwriting comparison: > > > > > > > > [1] > > > http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id > > =20 > > > > > > > > [2]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > > > > > > > Jim Maxwell > > > > References > > > > 1. > > > http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id=20 > > 2. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Perhaps the term you want is clerical (or secretarial) hand. Peter Christoph -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jarm@nycnuts.net Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:31 AM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? Thanks for your input Nancy! Calligraphy wasn't the right word.... and I still don't have a word to describe it---may just more deliberate, as someone might do on a piece of artwork. Most letters had several variations and I tried to include examples of each, you would have to take your time to notice the similarities. Two of the handwriting samples I had for LaMontagne were from documents written in French 30 years earlier. I have order additional, more contemporaneous, handwriting samples. It could just be my wishful thinking. Thanks again! Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Earliest known depiction of New York City... is this the artist??? From: Nancy Terhune <[1]nancyterhune@optonline.net> Date: Sun, June 16, 2013 5:46 am To: [2]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Cc: [3]dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com, [4]new-netherland@rootsweb.com Jim, Thanks for posting the link to the map. The map is really extraordinary. I'm not a graphologist or calligrapher, but I see most of the letter forms in your comparisons as quite different, the slants different, and I don't see a calligraphic style in the map script. Calligraphy produces letter forms that are consistent and clean and much less connected because of the emphasis on forming each letter perfectly. These are only my amateur observations. Does anyone have a better handle on this? Nancy On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:48 PM, [5]jarm@nycnuts.net wrote: > Iâm trying to prove the identity of the artist behind the earliest > known > depiction of New York City (c1650). > > > > Johannes LaMontagne is said to have been New Yorkâs first > accredited doctor, > and held important government positions under both William Kieft > and Peter > Stuyvesant. He built the first house in what today is known as > Harlem, as > well as being tasked with building the defensive wall for which > Wall Street > is named. Some sources name him as the possible drafter of some of > the > early maps of New Netherland including the original âManatvs Map,â > of which > only contemporary copies exist. > > > > Regarding the image in question⦠This watercolor, which is in the > National > Library of Austria and titled âDe Stadt Nieuw Amsterdam gelegen op > het > Eylandt Manhattan...,â was only uncovered in the 1990s. I have > done my own > handwriting comparison between known samples of LaMontagneâs > handwriting, > and the writing found on that watercolor, and I believe they match. > There > are also known samples of watercolors painted by LaMontagne that > accompany a > journal of an expedition to Guianaâthese are housed in the National > Library > of Great Britain. I think these could also be used for comparison. > Iâm > looking for some advice, suggestions and opinions on being a > possible match. > > > > Below is a link to an image of the watercolor in question as well > as a link > to a sample of my handwriting comparison: > > > > > [1][6]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php ?id > =20 > > > [2][7]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > > > Jim Maxwell > > References > > 1. > [8]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id =20 > 2. [9]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [10]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [11]DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:nancyterhune@optonline.net 2. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com 4. mailto:new-netherland@rootsweb.com 5. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 6. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id 7. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 8. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id=20 9. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 10. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com 11. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry for the question. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [NEW-NETHERLAND] Earliest_known_depiction_of_New_York_C ity..._is_this_the_artist??? From: <[1]jarm@nycnuts.net> Date: Sat, June 15, 2013 2:48 pm To: [2]DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com, [3]NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com Iâm trying to prove the identity of the artist behind the earliest known depiction of New York City (c1650). Johannes LaMontagne is said to have been New Yorkâs first accredited doctor, and held important government positions under both William Kieft and Peter Stuyvesant. He built the first house in what today is known as Harlem, as well as being tasked with building the defensive wall for which Wall Street is named. Some sources name him as the possible drafter of some of the early maps of New Netherland including the original âManatvs Map,â of which only contemporary copies exist. Regarding the image in question⦠This watercolor, which is in the National Library of Austria and titled âDe Stadt Nieuw Amsterdam gelegen op het Eylandt Manhattan...,â was only uncovered in the 1990s. I have done my own handwriting comparison between known samples of LaMontagneâs handwriting, and the writing found on that watercolor, and I believe they match. There are also known samples of watercolors painted by LaMontagne that accompany a journal of an expedition to Guianaâthese are housed in the National Library of Great Britain. I think these could also be used for comparison. Iâm looking for some advice, suggestions and opinions on being a possible match. Below is a link to an image of the watercolor in question as well as a link to a sample of my handwriting comparison: [1][4]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php ?id =20 [2][5]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ Thanks in advance for your input! Jim Maxwell References 1. [6]http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id =20 2. [7]http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples/ ************** For New Netherland Resources - ships lists, church records, land records and more visit [8]http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [9]NEW-NETHERLAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:jarm@nycnuts.net 2. mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND@rootsweb.com 4. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id 5. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 6. http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/karten/kartenzimelien/grossansicht.php?id=20 7. http://nycnuts.net/lamontagne_handwriting_samples 8. http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn 9. mailto:NEW-NETHERLAND-request@rootsweb.com