Just a word about the Dutch Cousins Gathering to be Sept 28-30 2007 in Shelbyville, KY. I am preparing a newsletter with registration info to be mailed and emailed pretty quickly. It will have info for the motels, RV parks, a bus tour of the old Dutch Tract, meals etc. I prefer to send email to save time and postage, so if you and have high speed and can open pdf attachments please send me ASAP your email address to Buffalo234@cox.net. If not, please send your snail mail address same address. This is going to be a wonderful weekend and you won't want to miss a minute of it. Cousin to Cousin We'll Always Be Special Friends From the Same Family Tree. Hugs, Carolyn Remember you have a friend in Oklahoma -- endlessly sorting out dead relatives! Researching COZINE in Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Nieuw Amsterdam (New York) and the Netherlands. See the photos of our DUTCH COUSINS gathering in Kentucky in 2005 here: http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum33.html and The Anderson Cow Palace meeting house http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum32.html

Hi Howard, Thank you very much for the follow-up. I did not have the marriage date, so I appreciate this extra effort. > Serven Haagken in Holland My gracious. I think he is from Sevenhoven. His 1679 warrant for land at Murderkill Creek was called "New Sevenhoven." [per Duke of York Record] > It appears most are in the 1670's. Many were married by James Bollen, Justice. > Unfortunately, yours doesn't show who married them or where. Hmm. This is only speculation, but perhaps he obtained some certificate of marriage from one of the justices of New Castle court. A few had moved from the Delaware side to the NJ side around this time. Foppe Jansen Outhout, another Dutchman and a justice in this period, was one who would have been convenient for Groenendyck to visit. Although one would think Foppe Jans could spell 'Sevenhoven.' Anyway, the marriage data and additional notes make a nice improvement to the file here. Thanks extremely. Best wishes, Liz J

Hi Liz, From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Pieter Groenendyck (was: Need New Term forTodays Relationships) > Hello Howard. Not surprised to see you on this. > > See Dr. Peter Stebbins Craig, "1671 Census of the Delaware" (1999, pub > Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania), pp 79-80. Dr Craig writes that > Peter Groenendyck was arrested in Manhattan in 1673 "for seducing > Maria de la Noy and Annetje Blanck, both of whom claimed to be > pregnant with his child." Craig gives these references: > "Minutes of the Executive Council of Province of New York" 1:169-75; > "Genealogical Magazine of New Jersey, 43:50"; Baptisms, NY Dutch > Church (etc). > > Pieter Groenendyck was ordered to pay each woman 150 beavers as well > as a 75-beaver fine. > > I would like to know the location of the alleged NJ marriage to Maria > De La Noy, if anyone could come up with that through one of these > sources above I was right; the marriage is in the GMNJ you cite. It is a short article (pp. 49-51) by Kenn Stryker-Rodda that lists 41 marriages and marriage licenses that had been recorded in the East Jersey Deed Books, but were not listed in vols 21 or 22 of the printed New Jersey Archives. Most had not been previously published. For this one it shows: "Gronnendyck, Peter, of Serven Haagken in Holland, and Maria de la Noy, daughter of Braham de la Noy of Harlem in said province, married 16 of 5, 1673." Since other records in this list show double dates for the first part of March, I would assume that 5 month above is July. It appears most are in the 1670's. Many were married by James Bollen, Justice. Unfortunately, yours doesn't show who married them or where. I glanced over your Executive Council reference. It is clear from that that he had gotten both women pregnant. And also that the Council forbade him from marrying either one. Maybe that's why he ran off to Jersey to get married. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Richard Secoy, born in New York ca. 1775, arrived in New Madrid County, MO, in 1802. His wife was Sarah, possibly Munn, also born in New York. This couple had four sons, John, Mark, Francis, and Godfrey. I believe that Richard was probably a descendant of Marcus Du Secoy who arrived in Staten Island in 1657. The surname Du Secoy has had many alternate spellings including Dissosway, DuSauchoy, and Du Secay. I have been unable to link Richard Secoy to any family living in New York at the time of his birth. Are there Dutch Colony researchers working on this family? Penny Culver prculver@cox.net

Let all your cousins, aunts, uncles and other kinfolk know we will be having a great time in Kentucky this Fall and we hope they can join us. I encourage you to try to arrive on Thursday and stay till Monday so you can take it all in. Friday-Sunday, September 28, 29, and 30, 2007, Shelbyville Kentucky. Shelbyville is located about halfway between Louisville and Lexington off I-64, about a 40-minute drive from either airport. It is an hour and half or so from Cincinnati, I am told. We have a couple new "cousins" living in Shelbyville who have been helping us set up. Thanks to Missi Mercer and Bridwell Terhune. Everything is going to cost a little more than it did in Harrodsburg, but I was able to confirm SPECIAL RATES for Dutch Cousins at four motels (you must call the manager – NOT a 1-800 number -- to get the special rate) so if you are interested, send me an email and request the list. If you have an RV I will find out about parking for you also, so let me know. Friday we will do some touring and sightseeing in this beautiful Derby region at the edge of Appalachia. Options include a tour of Saddlebred Horse Farm (Shelbyville is center of Horse industry and our Dutch loved horses), seeing the Low Dutch Tract around Pleasureville (15 miles), the site of Painted Stone Station of Squire Boone, the old Dutch cemetery and a visit to the Six-Mile Meeting House built by our ancestors, recently restored. I hope to set up a low cost bus tour (leave the driving to them) with historians to give a talk at each stop. May be able to have our evening meal catered (this food is highly recommended) at a remote but very nice church camp in the woods, which will give us an idea of what the country was like when our ancestors settled there. Plans are all still tentative at this point. Saturday, we will be meeting at the Stratton Center in Shelbyville, all day, with lots of Low Dutch history and hugs for all. More information will be available as plans fall into place. There are some nice places to eat and I am still working on special prices for that. Hoping to squeeze in a book-signing event for authors of early Kentucky and family history, and also a visit to the HistoryMobile with a big walk-through display on Daniel Boone (Tourism Director is working on setting this up). We want each family group (Van Arsdales, Rikers, Cozines, Westerfields, Bantas, Terhunes, etc) to provide a display about their family's Low Dutch Kentucky history so we can see how we all tie together, so please start working on that. Would like to have a genealogist or two from each family who can help newbies find their place in history. (volunteers?) If you are wanting to hold a smaller separate family meeting in addition to the Dutch Cousins, each of the motels have a small meeting room where you could set up your separate family gathering place as well. (let me know and I'll work on it) The door prizes provided by family member from the different states were popular last time, so this time we want to continue that as a silent auction. (volunteer to be in charge of this?) Sunday, We hope to hold morning services in Mercer County at the Old Mud Meeting House, and afterward a special dedication ceremony at the Old Mud cemetery for our deceased Revolutionary war veterans buried there. (More about this later, as each family will need to buy the $100 marker for their ancestor) More to follow! Hugs, Carolyn Remember you have a friend in Oklahoma -- endlessly sorting out dead relatives! Researching COZINE in Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Nieuw Amsterdam (New York) and the Netherlands. See the photos of our DUTCH COUSINS gathering in Kentucky in 2005 here: http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum33.html and The Anderson Cow Palace meeting house http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum32.html

Thank you for your help, Pamela and Sherilyn! I really appreciate it. Ann Andersen -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dutch-colonies-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:03 AM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Verveelen - Louw (Pamela J. Sears) 2. Re: Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/VanBorsum) (Pamela J. Sears) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:30:59 -0500 From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Verveelen - Louw To: "Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com" <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Cc: afandersen@hotmail.com Message-ID: <45CFD163.1090803@stratos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi Ann, > I am helping a woman with her DAR application and need some help concerning > Gideon Vervalen (1742/3-1820), son of Moses and descendant of Johannes > Verveleen. In secondary sources I continually see his birth date listed as > 10 Feb 1742 and once I saw it as 13 Mar 1743. His obituary just says he died > in his 83rd year as does his tombstone record in J. Wilson Poucher's "Old > Gravestones of Dutchess Co New York"(Manchester Bridge Cemetery). Can anyone > give me a citation for a date of birth? > > I am also looking for proof for his first wife's birth. She was Jane > Low/Jenny Louw and the date of birth I have seen in secondary sources is 27 > and 29 Nov 1763 and also 1765. Both of these dates are suspect because he > would have been over 20 years older than her! She was the daughter of > Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Marsten. > > Thanks so much for any help you can provide! > Ann Andersen Gideon Verveelen was baptized at the Poughkeepsie Reformed Church in Dutchess County, New York on 13 Feb 1743 Gideon #286 Bapt. Date: 13 Feb 1743 Parents: Moses Van Feele, Hester de Graaff; Sponsors: Gideon Van Feele, Susana de Graaff [sponsors are the paternal grandparents] The above is taken from an Arthur C. M. Kelly transcription of the Poughkeepsie Church records, and was included on the CD version, entitled: New York Births and Baptisms: Southeast Region 1660-1916. If, as you say above, Jenny Louw was the daughter of Wilhelmus Louw and Sarah Masten, then her date of birth would have to be before 1765, and her baptismal record has not survived. There is a gap in the records at Poughkeepsie between 1745 and 1764. However, an 18 or 20 year difference in their ages would not be out of the question. The first child of Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Masten baptized at Poughkeepsie was Jacob on 17 Feb 1765: Jacob #343 Bapt. Date: 17 Feb 1765; Parents: William Low, Sara Masten; Sponsors: Petrus Low & w Maria Freer However, to the best of my knowledge, Jenny Louw, the wife of Gideon Verveelen, has not been positively identified. Have the secondary sources you refer to above provided any rationale for this placement? Gideon Verveelen and Jenny Louw baptized 7 children at Poughkeepsie: 1. Hester, bpt 24 Oct 1790 2. Peter, bpt 18 Dec 1791 3. Isaac, bpt 3 Oct 1792 4. Abraham, bpt 3 Oct 1792 5. Jacob, bpt 24 Jul 1794 6. David, bpt 14 Sep 1796 7. Daniel, bpt 22 Feb 1798 Regards, Pam Sears p.s. Please trim the digest and change the subject line in the future. Many thanks :-). ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:35:49 -0500 From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/VanBorsum) To: "Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com" <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <45CFE095.20804@stratos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi again Chris, > Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, when > he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY Governor > Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a founding > elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. Don't you mean he was a founding elder of Reformed Dutch Church of New York? In The Charter of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of New York, bearing the date of 8 May 1696, the following were mentioned: The form in which the names of the Elders and Deacons appear in the text is doubtless due to the English scribe by whom the Charter was drawn up. In the Minutes of the Consistory, which are in the handwriting of Domine Selyns, they are as follows: Elders, Nicolaes Bayard, Stephanus van Cortlant, Willem Beeckman, Johannes Kerfbyl: Deacons, Isaacg de Foreest, Johannes de Peyster, Jacobus Kip, Isaacg de Riemer. See: http://www.upword.com/collegiate/charter.html Out of curiosity, I went on a hunt to find the parents of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl, and find that he was baptized in Amsterdam on 7 Nov 1634 at the Nieuwe kerk, [DTB 41/345], the son of Cornelis Jans Kerfbyl and his wife Marritje Sijmons. This couple also baptized a son Sijmon on 11 Nov 1642 at the Nieuwe kerk [DTB 42/331] in Amsterdam, and he married Anna Valentina Meijert circa 1669. It was this Simon who witnessed the baptism, by proxy, of Anna Valentina Kerfbyl at the New York Reformed Dutch Church on 29 Sep 1706: 29 Sept 1706; Johannes Kerfbyl, Margrietje Provoost; Anna Valentina; Symon Kerfbyl in Amsterdam, Catharina Kerfbyl, Wed. The other sponsor of course was the paternal grandmother, Catharina Rugh. Regards, Pam Sears ------------------------------ To contact the DUTCH-COLONIES list administrator, send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the DUTCH-COLONIES mailing list, send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49 *********************************************

Hi again Chris, > Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, when > he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY Governor > Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a founding > elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. Don't you mean he was a founding elder of Reformed Dutch Church of New York? In The Charter of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of New York, bearing the date of 8 May 1696, the following were mentioned: The form in which the names of the Elders and Deacons appear in the text is doubtless due to the English scribe by whom the Charter was drawn up. In the Minutes of the Consistory, which are in the handwriting of Domine Selyns, they are as follows: Elders, Nicolaes Bayard, Stephanus van Cortlant, Willem Beeckman, Johannes Kerfbyl: Deacons, Isaacg de Foreest, Johannes de Peyster, Jacobus Kip, Isaacg de Riemer. See: http://www.upword.com/collegiate/charter.html Out of curiosity, I went on a hunt to find the parents of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl, and find that he was baptized in Amsterdam on 7 Nov 1634 at the Nieuwe kerk, [DTB 41/345], the son of Cornelis Jans Kerfbyl and his wife Marritje Sijmons. This couple also baptized a son Sijmon on 11 Nov 1642 at the Nieuwe kerk [DTB 42/331] in Amsterdam, and he married Anna Valentina Meijert circa 1669. It was this Simon who witnessed the baptism, by proxy, of Anna Valentina Kerfbyl at the New York Reformed Dutch Church on 29 Sep 1706: 29 Sept 1706; Johannes Kerfbyl, Margrietje Provoost; Anna Valentina; Symon Kerfbyl in Amsterdam, Catharina Kerfbyl, Wed. The other sponsor of course was the paternal grandmother, Catharina Rugh. Regards, Pam Sears

Hi Ann, > I am helping a woman with her DAR application and need some help concerning > Gideon Vervalen (1742/3-1820), son of Moses and descendant of Johannes > Verveleen. In secondary sources I continually see his birth date listed as > 10 Feb 1742 and once I saw it as 13 Mar 1743. His obituary just says he died > in his 83rd year as does his tombstone record in J. Wilson Poucher's "Old > Gravestones of Dutchess Co New York"(Manchester Bridge Cemetery). Can anyone > give me a citation for a date of birth? > > I am also looking for proof for his first wife's birth. She was Jane > Low/Jenny Louw and the date of birth I have seen in secondary sources is 27 > and 29 Nov 1763 and also 1765. Both of these dates are suspect because he > would have been over 20 years older than her! She was the daughter of > Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Marsten. > > Thanks so much for any help you can provide! > Ann Andersen Gideon Verveelen was baptized at the Poughkeepsie Reformed Church in Dutchess County, New York on 13 Feb 1743 Gideon #286 Bapt. Date: 13 Feb 1743 Parents: Moses Van Feele, Hester de Graaff; Sponsors: Gideon Van Feele, Susana de Graaff [sponsors are the paternal grandparents] The above is taken from an Arthur C. M. Kelly transcription of the Poughkeepsie Church records, and was included on the CD version, entitled: New York Births and Baptisms: Southeast Region 1660-1916. If, as you say above, Jenny Louw was the daughter of Wilhelmus Louw and Sarah Masten, then her date of birth would have to be before 1765, and her baptismal record has not survived. There is a gap in the records at Poughkeepsie between 1745 and 1764. However, an 18 or 20 year difference in their ages would not be out of the question. The first child of Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Masten baptized at Poughkeepsie was Jacob on 17 Feb 1765: Jacob #343 Bapt. Date: 17 Feb 1765; Parents: William Low, Sara Masten; Sponsors: Petrus Low & w Maria Freer However, to the best of my knowledge, Jenny Louw, the wife of Gideon Verveelen, has not been positively identified. Have the secondary sources you refer to above provided any rationale for this placement? Gideon Verveelen and Jenny Louw baptized 7 children at Poughkeepsie: 1. Hester, bpt 24 Oct 1790 2. Peter, bpt 18 Dec 1791 3. Isaac, bpt 3 Oct 1792 4. Abraham, bpt 3 Oct 1792 5. Jacob, bpt 24 Jul 1794 6. David, bpt 14 Sep 1796 7. Daniel, bpt 22 Feb 1798 Regards, Pam Sears p.s. Please trim the digest and change the subject line in the future. Many thanks :-).

I just reviewed the ncd rom for the Van Alstyne account again, I did find what was in the query, not much else: Mathew Van Alstyne (Abraham, Jan, Martin) b abt 1696 d abt1796 (estimated dates by wft) married Catherine Kerfbyl b Mar 4, 1704/05 dau of Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provost they estimae she died 1804 but since Matthew married 2nd Sarah Lynch Nov 4, 1735 (est 1714 - 1814 ) dates are suspect. child of Matthew and Catherine Johannes b sept 25, 1729 d 1829 then Children of Matthew and Sarah 11 children between 1735 and 1752 I'll gyp this report and attach it to an email if you send me a diec t emmail. no follow thru on anyof the children. This matthew is son of Abraham by his first wife. I descend from him and his 2nd wife. JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com

Re: Jane Louw, wife of Gideon Vervalen. In death notice (Poughkeepsie Journal, Feb. 19, 1799), it states Mrs. Jane Ver Valen, wife of Mr. Gideon Ver Valen of Fishkill town, passed away -- survived by husband and nine small children. The surviving record of the Poughkeepsie Reformed Dutch Church contain problematic gaps. On February 17, 1765 at Poughkeepsie RDC, William Low and Sara Masten baptised son Jacob, with sp. Pettrus Low and Maria Freer. There are no baptisms for this couple at this church in 1764, and prior to that, there is a gap, where records do not survive for this church extending from 1745 through August 29 of 1764. Presumably Jane Louw would have been born during this period when records do not survive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharilyn Whitaker" <sharilyn@northcoast.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 > Can anyone give me a citation for a date of birth? (of Gideon Vervalen) > > > The record of the baptism of Gideon Vervalen appears in the records of the > > Poughkeepsie Reformed Dutch Church > 2.13.1743 > Moses Van Feele > Hester de Graff > Gideon > Sp: Gideon Van Feele, Susana de Graaf > (Sponsors were the paternal grandparents) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ann Andersen" <afandersen@hotmail.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:53 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 > > >>I am helping a woman with her DAR application and need some help >>concerning >> Gideon Vervalen (1742/3-1820), son of Moses and descendant of Johannes >> Verveleen. In secondary sources I continually see his birth date listed >> as >> 10 Feb 1742 and once I saw it as 13 Mar 1743. His obituary just says he >> died >> in his 83rd year as does his tombstone record in J. Wilson Poucher's "Old >> Gravestones of Dutchess Co New York"(Manchester Bridge Cemetery). Can >> anyone >> give me a citation for a date of birth? >> >> I am also looking for proof for his first wife's birth. She was Jane >> Low/Jenny Louw and the date of birth I have seen in secondary sources is >> 27 >> and 29 Nov 1763 and also 1765. Both of these dates are suspect because he >> would have been over 20 years older than her! She was the daughter of >> Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Marsten. >> >> Thanks so much for any help you can provide! >> Ann Andersen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> dutch-colonies-request@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:33 PM >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Subject: DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Edward Otte) >> 2. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (John VanBuskirk) >> 3. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn >> (John VanBuskirk) >> 4. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn >> (chilipepper5454@aol.com) >> 5. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Elsie H. Wilson) >> 6. Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. NY and Kingston >> (Elsie H. Wilson) >> 7. Re: Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/Van Borsum) >> (Pamela J. Sears) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:00:20 -0500 >> From: Edward Otte <edotte@optonline.net> >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <0JDA00A8IUSGKCA0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay >> ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This >> was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as >> churches >> picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more >> meticulous >> than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were >> even >> so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were >> baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. >> >> So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of >> the >> genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some >> degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this >> same period often there are no written, extant, church records. >> >> Edward Otte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> >> Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. >> Not >> all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became >> available. >> I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the >> Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. >> >> Tom Terbush >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM >> To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> >> Hello, >> I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while >> scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking >> and >> I >> would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on >> Sept. >> 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that >> everyone >> with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies >> baptized. >> Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It >> is >> just something that has got me curious. >> Does anyone know why this is? >> Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >> http://explorer.msn.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:58:41 -0500 >> From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <002a01c74ded$1e77bce0$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> HI I had good luck with the NY G&B Record magazine, many of the church >> records were published serially You may have to go back to issues >> published >> in 1930s etc. My families were located in the Dutch churches in >> Coxsackie, >> Catskill. Kinderhook, Claverack, and Kingston, too as well as Zion >> Lutheran >> ?Church at Athens. I found the series in the library at Syracuse, I >> assume >> other libraries would too. I was doing the search in the 1950s and some >> of >> the lists were current in those issues. good luck.JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK >> http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ >> jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> >> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> >> >>> Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay >>> ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. >>> This >>> was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as >>> churches >>> picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more >> meticulous >>> than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were >> even >>> so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were >>> baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. >>> >>> So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of >>> the >>> genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to >>> some >>> degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from >>> this >>> same period often there are no written, extant, church records. >>> >>> Edward Otte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush >>> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM >>> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >>> >>> Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. >>> Not >>> all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became >>> available. >>> I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the >>> Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. >>> >>> Tom Terbush >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. >>> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM >>> To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >>> >>> Hello, >>> I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while >>> scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking >>> and >> I >>> would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on >> Sept. >>> 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that >> everyone >>> with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies >> baptized. >>> Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It >>> is >>> just something that has got me curious. >>> Does anyone know why this is? >>> Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >>> http://explorer.msn.com >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:06:42 -0500 >> From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard >> MorrisEsselstyn >> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <005901c74dee$3d9d6970$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. >> her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m >> Major >> Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 >> if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by >> attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested >> JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK >> http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ >> jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <chilipepper5454@aol.com> >> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard >> MorrisEsselstyn >> >> >>> >>> In a message dated 2/10/2007 3:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> pspro1123@aol.com writes: >>> >>> Who are Richard's parents ?? >>> >>> >>> >>> His parents were; >>> >>> Name: Richard ESSELSTYN Given Name: Richard Surname: Esselstyn Sex: >>> M >>> Birth: 2 Sep 1731 Death: 30 Oct 1783 >>> >>> and >>> >>> Name: Maria VAN ALSTINE Given Name: Maria Surname: Van Alstine Sex: >>> F >>> Birth: 11 Jan 1744 >>> >>> Jean >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:32:15 EST >> From: chilipepper5454@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard >> MorrisEsselstyn >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <cb1.ac21336.33009f0f@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >> In a message dated 2/11/2007 10:08:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com writes: >> >> Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. >> her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m >> Major >> Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family >> 3615 >> if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by >> attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested >> JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK >> http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ >> jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com >> >> >> >> John, yes I would like to have the genealogy report. >> Thank you!! >> Jean Peppers >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:00:06 -0600 >> From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211104609.016983f8@mail.charter.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Just prior to the Rev. War and after, my Kingston families (Heimbach, >> Yaple, Dumond, Van Wagenen) were in the back country of what is now >> Delaware Co. NY, at Pakatakatan (present-day Margaretville and New >> Kingston). During the war, they were refugees back down in Kingston. But >> returned to Pakatakatan after the war. >> But, they considered their home church that of Kingston. They would have >> their children baptized "when they could" and marriages blessed "when >> they >> could." They just could not drop everything and bring a new baby the long >> trip over the mountains to get baptized as soon as it was born. >> Sometimes the marriages were performed at Kingston and sometimes by a >> traveling minister. >> By 1789, a group of these families moved to where Ithaca, NY is now as >> the >> first four families to settle that area. Peter Heimbach and his wife, >> Catherine Dumond, Catherine's brother, Peter's Yaple half-brothers were >> among those families. One brother made the long journey back to Kingston >> to >> marry is intended and they journeyed back to Ithaca. These families were >> very religious, but they had to do as best they could to carry out the >> ceremonies of the church. >> Thus, there are spotty records from many families that started moving >> into >> the back country at that time. >> Elsie Wilson >> Elsie H. Wilson >> 5620 Harris Cir. >> Fitchburg, WI 53575 >> (608) 835-6791 >> ehwilson@charter.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:17:19 -0600 >> From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> >> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. >> NY and Kingston >> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211131546.016be898@mail.charter.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> The Averys and the Heimbachs and Yaples and Dumonds (DuMont/DuMond >> etc.)seem to be closely tied for several generations. >> Here is the Heimbach and Yaple family short course: Please contact me off >> list to get fuller version. :-) >> Matthias Heimbach and two bothers, Peter and Adam came to America from >> the >> region of Germany near present day Baumholder. >> Their family village is Heimbach Am Nehe a couple miles from Baumholder. >> Their names were really: Johannes Peter, Johannes Adam and Johannes >> Matthias, and they were sons of Johnnes Heimbach/Hymbach and Maria >> Englelin >> of Heimbach Am Nehe and Illgesheim villages. Illgesheim is no longer in >> existance. It is under the present day Baumholder air base. >> Matthias Heimbach settled in Lehigh Co. PA. There he married Susanna >> Vasqueau /Wiscoe/Wisko. She came to the area from Alsace with her brother >> Franz and was joined by their father Philip. >> Susanna and Matthias had four children and Matthias seems to have been a >> farmer and blacksmith. He died suddenly and left her with the small >> children to raise. A neighbor, Henry/Philip Henry Jebel's wife had just >> died leaving with small children. They married. They moved to NY before >> the >> Rev. War, as Pakatakatan (spelled every-which-way) was being settled in >> NY, >> present Delaware Co. area. The first families: Dumonds, Van Wagenens, >> Hendriks, were joined by the Jebels/Yaples plus Susannas' son, Peter >> Heimbach. There he met Catherine Dumond and married her. A Yaple son >> married into the Avery family, Peter Avery and Mary Yaple, specifically. >> Later when the families made the move to Ithaca area and then some on to >> Erie Co. PA, Averys went too. Peter Heimbach and Catherine Dumond's >> daughter Sally/Sellie Heimbach married Benjamin Avery. So you find a >> trail >> of Heimbachs/Himpaws, Kinpaws (every spelling possible!!!), Yaples, >> Dumonds, Averys along the way from Kingston to Delaware Co. NY to >> Ithaca/Danby NY to Erie Co. PA. >> I would like to find out more about your Averys. Susanna Vesqueau >> Heimbach >> Yaple was supposed to have lived with Mary and Pieter Avery until her >> death. They are buried together in a cemetery near Margaretville, (near >> where Peter and Mary lived,but I'm not certain which one. Peter and Mary >> were supposed to have requested that the graves not have stones! (All >> that >> old graven-image stuff.) >> Please contact me and we'll talk more. >> Also, I'd love to hear from other people from these families I've >> mentioned >> or who have Delaware Co. NY lines. >> I'm working on a book about the Heimbach family with Jane Daily. We want >> to >> include as much as we can. >> Elsie >> Elsie H. Wilson >> 5620 Harris Cir. >> Fitchburg, WI 53575 >> (608) 835-6791 >> ehwilson@charter.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:39:20 -0500 >> From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van >> Alstyne/Van Borsum) >> To: "Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com" <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <45CF7EF8.7030506@stratos.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> You wrote: >> >>> Hello, all: >>> >>> Does anyone know of an adult record of Johannes Kerfbyl b-1718? He was >>> the >>> son of Johannes Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost; ward of Catharina >>> Kerfbyl >>> Van Alstyne; and possibly later the ward of Egbert Van Borsum. He was >>> also >>> the grandson of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl of NYC? >>> >>> Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, >> when >>> he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY >> Governor >>> Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a >>> founding >>> elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. >>> >>> The doctor's son, Johannes Kerfbyl ("Jr.") married Margrietje Provoost >>> (recorded at the NY RDC on 23 Jan 1704). He was a merchant, lived on the >>> north corner of Broad Street and Mill Street, and was active in Trinity >> Chu >>> rch. He died in 1728 (a will abstract is at >>> http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/1999-11/0942523887). >> He >>> baptized three sons at the NY RDC, but the only one mentioned in the >>> will >>> was Johannes, (probably baptized 28 Dec 1718; a Johannes b-1712 >>> presumably >>> dy). >>> >>> Johannes ("III") was directed to the custody of Catharina Kerfbyl Van >>> Alstyne (his sister) and Egbert Van Borsum (whose relationship I don't >>> know). Catharina likely died between 1729 (when she baptized a son) and >> 1735 >>> (when her husband, Matthew Van Alstyne, a merchant in NY, remarried). I >>> think Egbert Borsum was the husband of Elizabeth Benson, but find >>> nothing >>> about him that indicates what happened to Johannes Kerfbyl. >>> >>> I have never seen an original record with the name Kerfbyl, so I can't >>> say >>> for sure that the "f" wasn't really an old-style "s", etc. Some church >>> records show the name as Kerfbyle and Karbile. >>> >>> Any thoughts on the life or death of Johannes Kerfbyl "III" would be >>> appreciated! >>> >>> Chris >> >> Interesting to note that the English version of the marriage license >> granted by Lord Cornbury for Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provoost >> bears the date of 18 Jan 1703, as per Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 >> Liber 7, page 386. The published records of the New York Reformed Dutch >> Church [page 101] indicates the license was dated 18 Jan 1704, and they >> married on 23 Jan 1704. >> >> Johanes Kerfbyl, medicine doctor, and his wife Catharina Rugh made a >> joint will bearing the date of 1 Feb 1688; which was proved before Lord >> Cornbury on 4 Nov 1704, when Letters of Administration were granted to >> the widow Catharine Kerfbyl [see Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , >> Liber 7, Page 400]. Oddly enough, at the time, no mention was made of >> the son Johannes, although he must have been with them at the time. >> >> >> I have not found any further evidence of Johannes^3 Kerfbyl. Egbert Van >> Borsum (the husband of Elizabeth Bensen), and guardian of said Johannes >> Kerfbyl, made no mention of him in his will dated 12 Aug 1736; proved 26 >> Oct 1737 [See Abstracts of Wills Vol III 1730-1744, Liber 13, page 228]. >> >> Technically, there was no blood relationship between Egbert Van Borsum >> and Johannes^3 Kerfbyl, although Elizabeth Bensen's brother Mattheus >> Bensen had married Catharina Provoost, the sister of Margriet Provoost, >> who was the wife of Johannes^2 Kerfbyl. >> >> In the 'for what its worth' category, the name Kerfbyl was indexed and >> transcribed by the Amsterdam Municipal Archives (from the doopregister) >> primarily as "Kerfbijl." >> >> Johannes^2 Kerfbyl had 2 siblings baptized in Amsterdam: Cornelis, >> baptized 9 Sep 1665 at the Zuider kerk [DTB 95/191]; and, Catharina, >> baptized 9 Dec 1667 at the Nieuwe Zijds Kapel [DTB 66/108], but neither >> appear to have survived infancy. >> >> >> Regards, >> Pam Sears >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the DUTCH-COLONIES list administrator, send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-admin@rootsweb.com. >> >> To post a message to the DUTCH-COLONIES mailing list, send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 >> ********************************************* >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, > Hi Chris, > > You wrote: snip >> Any thoughts on the life or death of Johannes Kerfbyl "III" would be >> appreciated! >> >> Chris > > Interesting to note that the English version of the marriage license > granted by Lord Cornbury for Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provoost > bears the date of 18 Jan 1703, as per Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 > Liber 7, page 386. The published records of the New York Reformed Dutch > Church [page 101] indicates the license was dated 18 Jan 1704, and they > married on 23 Jan 1704. Several of the following items in that Liber are dated April 1704. Recall that the English (who wrote the Liber) were still beginning the year on Mar 25, while the records of the Dutch churches in NYC area always used Jan 1 -- no matter whether they were using the Julian or the Gregorian method to calculate leap years. (Gregorian when the Dutch were in charge and Julian when the English were in charge until 1752.) So, it was still 1703 if one didn't start the new year till Mar 25, but it was 1704 if one started on Jan 1. As to Johannes III, when orphans reached 14 years old they could choose their own guardians in those days. A list of 34 such is shown by Kenneth Scott in NGSQ vol 56, pp 51-54. I did not see your Johannes Kerfbyl there. So, no help. As I recall, there are some other books re. guardians and/or apprentices by Mr. Scott and/or Stryker-Rodda. You might want to check those. A "John Kerfbyle" witnessed the will of Richard (Dirck) ten Eyck of New York (City) on 17 Sep 1745. -- WNYHS vol 7, pp. 119-120. Johannes Kerfbyl is shown witnessing baptisms for his sister, Susanna, in 1744 and 1754 at the NY RDC here: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/na_baptisms_1731-1800.htm I don't find a marriage for him in the NY RDC or in the online Marriages Previous to 1784. You might want to check other churches in NYC or the surrounding area. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com Standard Source Abbreviations: http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=96

Can anyone give me a citation for a date of birth? (of Gideon Vervalen) The record of the baptism of Gideon Vervalen appears in the records of the Poughkeepsie Reformed Dutch Church 2.13.1743 Moses Van Feele Hester de Graff Gideon Sp: Gideon Van Feele, Susana de Graaf (Sponsors were the paternal grandparents) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Andersen" <afandersen@hotmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 >I am helping a woman with her DAR application and need some help concerning > Gideon Vervalen (1742/3-1820), son of Moses and descendant of Johannes > Verveleen. In secondary sources I continually see his birth date listed as > 10 Feb 1742 and once I saw it as 13 Mar 1743. His obituary just says he > died > in his 83rd year as does his tombstone record in J. Wilson Poucher's "Old > Gravestones of Dutchess Co New York"(Manchester Bridge Cemetery). Can > anyone > give me a citation for a date of birth? > > I am also looking for proof for his first wife's birth. She was Jane > Low/Jenny Louw and the date of birth I have seen in secondary sources is > 27 > and 29 Nov 1763 and also 1765. Both of these dates are suspect because he > would have been over 20 years older than her! She was the daughter of > Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Marsten. > > Thanks so much for any help you can provide! > Ann Andersen > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > dutch-colonies-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:33 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Edward Otte) > 2. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (John VanBuskirk) > 3. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn > (John VanBuskirk) > 4. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn > (chilipepper5454@aol.com) > 5. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Elsie H. Wilson) > 6. Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. NY and Kingston > (Elsie H. Wilson) > 7. Re: Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/Van Borsum) > (Pamela J. Sears) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:00:20 -0500 > From: Edward Otte <edotte@optonline.net> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <0JDA00A8IUSGKCA0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay > ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This > was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as churches > picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more > meticulous > than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were > even > so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were > baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. > > So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of the > genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some > degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this > same period often there are no written, extant, church records. > > Edward Otte > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. Not > all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became > available. > I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the > Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. > > Tom Terbush > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM > To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Hello, > I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while > scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking and > I > would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on > Sept. > 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that > everyone > with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies > baptized. > Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It is > just something that has got me curious. > Does anyone know why this is? > Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:58:41 -0500 > From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <002a01c74ded$1e77bce0$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > HI I had good luck with the NY G&B Record magazine, many of the church > records were published serially You may have to go back to issues > published > in 1930s etc. My families were located in the Dutch churches in > Coxsackie, > Catskill. Kinderhook, Claverack, and Kingston, too as well as Zion > Lutheran > ?Church at Athens. I found the series in the library at Syracuse, I > assume > other libraries would too. I was doing the search in the 1950s and some > of > the lists were current in those issues. good luck.JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK > http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ > jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:00 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > >> Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay >> ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This >> was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as >> churches >> picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more > meticulous >> than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were > even >> so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were >> baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. >> >> So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of >> the >> genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some >> degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this >> same period often there are no written, extant, church records. >> >> Edward Otte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> >> Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. >> Not >> all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became >> available. >> I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the >> Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. >> >> Tom Terbush >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM >> To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms >> >> Hello, >> I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while >> scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking >> and > I >> would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on > Sept. >> 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that > everyone >> with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies > baptized. >> Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It >> is >> just something that has got me curious. >> Does anyone know why this is? >> Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >> http://explorer.msn.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:06:42 -0500 > From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard > MorrisEsselstyn > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <005901c74dee$3d9d6970$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. > her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m Major > Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 > if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by > attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested > JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK > http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ > jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <chilipepper5454@aol.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard > MorrisEsselstyn > > >> >> In a message dated 2/10/2007 3:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> pspro1123@aol.com writes: >> >> Who are Richard's parents ?? >> >> >> >> His parents were; >> >> Name: Richard ESSELSTYN Given Name: Richard Surname: Esselstyn Sex: M >> Birth: 2 Sep 1731 Death: 30 Oct 1783 >> >> and >> >> Name: Maria VAN ALSTINE Given Name: Maria Surname: Van Alstine Sex: F >> Birth: 11 Jan 1744 >> >> Jean >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:32:15 EST > From: chilipepper5454@aol.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard > MorrisEsselstyn > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <cb1.ac21336.33009f0f@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 2/11/2007 10:08:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com writes: > > Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. > her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m > Major > Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family > 3615 > if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by > attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested > JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK > http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ > jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com > > > > John, yes I would like to have the genealogy report. > Thank you!! > Jean Peppers > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:00:06 -0600 > From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211104609.016983f8@mail.charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Just prior to the Rev. War and after, my Kingston families (Heimbach, > Yaple, Dumond, Van Wagenen) were in the back country of what is now > Delaware Co. NY, at Pakatakatan (present-day Margaretville and New > Kingston). During the war, they were refugees back down in Kingston. But > returned to Pakatakatan after the war. > But, they considered their home church that of Kingston. They would have > their children baptized "when they could" and marriages blessed "when they > could." They just could not drop everything and bring a new baby the long > trip over the mountains to get baptized as soon as it was born. > Sometimes the marriages were performed at Kingston and sometimes by a > traveling minister. > By 1789, a group of these families moved to where Ithaca, NY is now as the > first four families to settle that area. Peter Heimbach and his wife, > Catherine Dumond, Catherine's brother, Peter's Yaple half-brothers were > among those families. One brother made the long journey back to Kingston > to > marry is intended and they journeyed back to Ithaca. These families were > very religious, but they had to do as best they could to carry out the > ceremonies of the church. > Thus, there are spotty records from many families that started moving into > the back country at that time. > Elsie Wilson > Elsie H. Wilson > 5620 Harris Cir. > Fitchburg, WI 53575 > (608) 835-6791 > ehwilson@charter.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:17:19 -0600 > From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. > NY and Kingston > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211131546.016be898@mail.charter.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > The Averys and the Heimbachs and Yaples and Dumonds (DuMont/DuMond > etc.)seem to be closely tied for several generations. > Here is the Heimbach and Yaple family short course: Please contact me off > list to get fuller version. :-) > Matthias Heimbach and two bothers, Peter and Adam came to America from the > region of Germany near present day Baumholder. > Their family village is Heimbach Am Nehe a couple miles from Baumholder. > Their names were really: Johannes Peter, Johannes Adam and Johannes > Matthias, and they were sons of Johnnes Heimbach/Hymbach and Maria > Englelin > of Heimbach Am Nehe and Illgesheim villages. Illgesheim is no longer in > existance. It is under the present day Baumholder air base. > Matthias Heimbach settled in Lehigh Co. PA. There he married Susanna > Vasqueau /Wiscoe/Wisko. She came to the area from Alsace with her brother > Franz and was joined by their father Philip. > Susanna and Matthias had four children and Matthias seems to have been a > farmer and blacksmith. He died suddenly and left her with the small > children to raise. A neighbor, Henry/Philip Henry Jebel's wife had just > died leaving with small children. They married. They moved to NY before > the > Rev. War, as Pakatakatan (spelled every-which-way) was being settled in > NY, > present Delaware Co. area. The first families: Dumonds, Van Wagenens, > Hendriks, were joined by the Jebels/Yaples plus Susannas' son, Peter > Heimbach. There he met Catherine Dumond and married her. A Yaple son > married into the Avery family, Peter Avery and Mary Yaple, specifically. > Later when the families made the move to Ithaca area and then some on to > Erie Co. PA, Averys went too. Peter Heimbach and Catherine Dumond's > daughter Sally/Sellie Heimbach married Benjamin Avery. So you find a trail > of Heimbachs/Himpaws, Kinpaws (every spelling possible!!!), Yaples, > Dumonds, Averys along the way from Kingston to Delaware Co. NY to > Ithaca/Danby NY to Erie Co. PA. > I would like to find out more about your Averys. Susanna Vesqueau Heimbach > Yaple was supposed to have lived with Mary and Pieter Avery until her > death. They are buried together in a cemetery near Margaretville, (near > where Peter and Mary lived,but I'm not certain which one. Peter and Mary > were supposed to have requested that the graves not have stones! (All that > old graven-image stuff.) > Please contact me and we'll talk more. > Also, I'd love to hear from other people from these families I've > mentioned > or who have Delaware Co. NY lines. > I'm working on a book about the Heimbach family with Jane Daily. We want > to > include as much as we can. > Elsie > Elsie H. Wilson > 5620 Harris Cir. > Fitchburg, WI 53575 > (608) 835-6791 > ehwilson@charter.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:39:20 -0500 > From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van > Alstyne/Van Borsum) > To: "Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com" <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <45CF7EF8.7030506@stratos.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Hi Chris, > > You wrote: > >> Hello, all: >> >> Does anyone know of an adult record of Johannes Kerfbyl b-1718? He was >> the >> son of Johannes Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost; ward of Catharina >> Kerfbyl >> Van Alstyne; and possibly later the ward of Egbert Van Borsum. He was >> also >> the grandson of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl of NYC? >> >> Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, > when >> he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY > Governor >> Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a >> founding >> elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. >> >> The doctor's son, Johannes Kerfbyl ("Jr.") married Margrietje Provoost >> (recorded at the NY RDC on 23 Jan 1704). He was a merchant, lived on the >> north corner of Broad Street and Mill Street, and was active in Trinity > Chu >> rch. He died in 1728 (a will abstract is at >> http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/1999-11/0942523887). > He >> baptized three sons at the NY RDC, but the only one mentioned in the will >> was Johannes, (probably baptized 28 Dec 1718; a Johannes b-1712 >> presumably >> dy). >> >> Johannes ("III") was directed to the custody of Catharina Kerfbyl Van >> Alstyne (his sister) and Egbert Van Borsum (whose relationship I don't >> know). Catharina likely died between 1729 (when she baptized a son) and > 1735 >> (when her husband, Matthew Van Alstyne, a merchant in NY, remarried). I >> think Egbert Borsum was the husband of Elizabeth Benson, but find nothing >> about him that indicates what happened to Johannes Kerfbyl. >> >> I have never seen an original record with the name Kerfbyl, so I can't >> say >> for sure that the "f" wasn't really an old-style "s", etc. Some church >> records show the name as Kerfbyle and Karbile. >> >> Any thoughts on the life or death of Johannes Kerfbyl "III" would be >> appreciated! >> >> Chris > > Interesting to note that the English version of the marriage license > granted by Lord Cornbury for Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provoost > bears the date of 18 Jan 1703, as per Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 > Liber 7, page 386. The published records of the New York Reformed Dutch > Church [page 101] indicates the license was dated 18 Jan 1704, and they > married on 23 Jan 1704. > > Johanes Kerfbyl, medicine doctor, and his wife Catharina Rugh made a > joint will bearing the date of 1 Feb 1688; which was proved before Lord > Cornbury on 4 Nov 1704, when Letters of Administration were granted to > the widow Catharine Kerfbyl [see Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , > Liber 7, Page 400]. Oddly enough, at the time, no mention was made of > the son Johannes, although he must have been with them at the time. > > > I have not found any further evidence of Johannes^3 Kerfbyl. Egbert Van > Borsum (the husband of Elizabeth Bensen), and guardian of said Johannes > Kerfbyl, made no mention of him in his will dated 12 Aug 1736; proved 26 > Oct 1737 [See Abstracts of Wills Vol III 1730-1744, Liber 13, page 228]. > > Technically, there was no blood relationship between Egbert Van Borsum > and Johannes^3 Kerfbyl, although Elizabeth Bensen's brother Mattheus > Bensen had married Catharina Provoost, the sister of Margriet Provoost, > who was the wife of Johannes^2 Kerfbyl. > > In the 'for what its worth' category, the name Kerfbyl was indexed and > transcribed by the Amsterdam Municipal Archives (from the doopregister) > primarily as "Kerfbijl." > > Johannes^2 Kerfbyl had 2 siblings baptized in Amsterdam: Cornelis, > baptized 9 Sep 1665 at the Zuider kerk [DTB 95/191]; and, Catharina, > baptized 9 Dec 1667 at the Nieuwe Zijds Kapel [DTB 66/108], but neither > appear to have survived infancy. > > > Regards, > Pam Sears > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the DUTCH-COLONIES list administrator, send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the DUTCH-COLONIES mailing list, send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 > ********************************************* > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am helping a woman with her DAR application and need some help concerning Gideon Vervalen (1742/3-1820), son of Moses and descendant of Johannes Verveleen. In secondary sources I continually see his birth date listed as 10 Feb 1742 and once I saw it as 13 Mar 1743. His obituary just says he died in his 83rd year as does his tombstone record in J. Wilson Poucher's "Old Gravestones of Dutchess Co New York"(Manchester Bridge Cemetery). Can anyone give me a citation for a date of birth? I am also looking for proof for his first wife's birth. She was Jane Low/Jenny Louw and the date of birth I have seen in secondary sources is 27 and 29 Nov 1763 and also 1765. Both of these dates are suspect because he would have been over 20 years older than her! She was the daughter of Wilhelmus Louw and Sara Marsten. Thanks so much for any help you can provide! Ann Andersen -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dutch-colonies-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:33 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Edward Otte) 2. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (John VanBuskirk) 3. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn (John VanBuskirk) 4. Re: Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn (chilipepper5454@aol.com) 5. Re: Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms (Elsie H. Wilson) 6. Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. NY and Kingston (Elsie H. Wilson) 7. Re: Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/Van Borsum) (Pamela J. Sears) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:00:20 -0500 From: Edward Otte <edotte@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <0JDA00A8IUSGKCA0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as churches picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more meticulous than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were even so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of the genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this same period often there are no written, extant, church records. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. Not all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became available. I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. Tom Terbush -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms Hello, I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking and I would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on Sept. 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that everyone with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies baptized. Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It is just something that has got me curious. Does anyone know why this is? Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:58:41 -0500 From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <002a01c74ded$1e77bce0$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" HI I had good luck with the NY G&B Record magazine, many of the church records were published serially You may have to go back to issues published in 1930s etc. My families were located in the Dutch churches in Coxsackie, Catskill. Kinderhook, Claverack, and Kingston, too as well as Zion Lutheran ?Church at Athens. I found the series in the library at Syracuse, I assume other libraries would too. I was doing the search in the 1950s and some of the lists were current in those issues. good luck.JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay > ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This > was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as churches > picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more meticulous > than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were even > so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were > baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. > > So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of the > genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some > degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this > same period often there are no written, extant, church records. > > Edward Otte > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. Not > all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became > available. > I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the > Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. > > Tom Terbush > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM > To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Hello, > I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while > scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking and I > would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on Sept. > 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that everyone > with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies baptized. > Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It is > just something that has got me curious. > Does anyone know why this is? > Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 10:06:42 -0500 From: "John VanBuskirk" <jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <005901c74dee$3d9d6970$3360ca45@vanbuskirk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m Major Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <chilipepper5454@aol.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 3:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pspro1123@aol.com writes: > > Who are Richard's parents ?? > > > > His parents were; > > Name: Richard ESSELSTYN Given Name: Richard Surname: Esselstyn Sex: M > Birth: 2 Sep 1731 Death: 30 Oct 1783 > > and > > Name: Maria VAN ALSTINE Given Name: Maria Surname: Van Alstine Sex: F > Birth: 11 Jan 1744 > > Jean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:32:15 EST From: chilipepper5454@aol.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <cb1.ac21336.33009f0f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/11/2007 10:08:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com writes: Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m Major Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com John, yes I would like to have the genealogy report. Thank you!! Jean Peppers ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:00:06 -0600 From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211104609.016983f8@mail.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just prior to the Rev. War and after, my Kingston families (Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond, Van Wagenen) were in the back country of what is now Delaware Co. NY, at Pakatakatan (present-day Margaretville and New Kingston). During the war, they were refugees back down in Kingston. But returned to Pakatakatan after the war. But, they considered their home church that of Kingston. They would have their children baptized "when they could" and marriages blessed "when they could." They just could not drop everything and bring a new baby the long trip over the mountains to get baptized as soon as it was born. Sometimes the marriages were performed at Kingston and sometimes by a traveling minister. By 1789, a group of these families moved to where Ithaca, NY is now as the first four families to settle that area. Peter Heimbach and his wife, Catherine Dumond, Catherine's brother, Peter's Yaple half-brothers were among those families. One brother made the long journey back to Kingston to marry is intended and they journeyed back to Ithaca. These families were very religious, but they had to do as best they could to carry out the ceremonies of the church. Thus, there are spotty records from many families that started moving into the back country at that time. Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:17:19 -0600 From: "Elsie H. Wilson" <ehwilson@charter.net> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Avery, Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond Delaware Co. NY and Kingston To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20070211131546.016be898@mail.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Averys and the Heimbachs and Yaples and Dumonds (DuMont/DuMond etc.)seem to be closely tied for several generations. Here is the Heimbach and Yaple family short course: Please contact me off list to get fuller version. :-) Matthias Heimbach and two bothers, Peter and Adam came to America from the region of Germany near present day Baumholder. Their family village is Heimbach Am Nehe a couple miles from Baumholder. Their names were really: Johannes Peter, Johannes Adam and Johannes Matthias, and they were sons of Johnnes Heimbach/Hymbach and Maria Englelin of Heimbach Am Nehe and Illgesheim villages. Illgesheim is no longer in existance. It is under the present day Baumholder air base. Matthias Heimbach settled in Lehigh Co. PA. There he married Susanna Vasqueau /Wiscoe/Wisko. She came to the area from Alsace with her brother Franz and was joined by their father Philip. Susanna and Matthias had four children and Matthias seems to have been a farmer and blacksmith. He died suddenly and left her with the small children to raise. A neighbor, Henry/Philip Henry Jebel's wife had just died leaving with small children. They married. They moved to NY before the Rev. War, as Pakatakatan (spelled every-which-way) was being settled in NY, present Delaware Co. area. The first families: Dumonds, Van Wagenens, Hendriks, were joined by the Jebels/Yaples plus Susannas' son, Peter Heimbach. There he met Catherine Dumond and married her. A Yaple son married into the Avery family, Peter Avery and Mary Yaple, specifically. Later when the families made the move to Ithaca area and then some on to Erie Co. PA, Averys went too. Peter Heimbach and Catherine Dumond's daughter Sally/Sellie Heimbach married Benjamin Avery. So you find a trail of Heimbachs/Himpaws, Kinpaws (every spelling possible!!!), Yaples, Dumonds, Averys along the way from Kingston to Delaware Co. NY to Ithaca/Danby NY to Erie Co. PA. I would like to find out more about your Averys. Susanna Vesqueau Heimbach Yaple was supposed to have lived with Mary and Pieter Avery until her death. They are buried together in a cemetery near Margaretville, (near where Peter and Mary lived,but I'm not certain which one. Peter and Mary were supposed to have requested that the graves not have stones! (All that old graven-image stuff.) Please contact me and we'll talk more. Also, I'd love to hear from other people from these families I've mentioned or who have Delaware Co. NY lines. I'm working on a book about the Heimbach family with Jane Daily. We want to include as much as we can. Elsie Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:39:20 -0500 From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Johannes Kerfbyl (Provoost/Van Alstyne/Van Borsum) To: "Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com" <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <45CF7EF8.7030506@stratos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi Chris, You wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone know of an adult record of Johannes Kerfbyl b-1718? He was the > son of Johannes Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost; ward of Catharina Kerfbyl > Van Alstyne; and possibly later the ward of Egbert Van Borsum. He was also > the grandson of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl of NYC? > > Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, when > he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY Governor > Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a founding > elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. > > The doctor's son, Johannes Kerfbyl ("Jr.") married Margrietje Provoost > (recorded at the NY RDC on 23 Jan 1704). He was a merchant, lived on the > north corner of Broad Street and Mill Street, and was active in Trinity Chu > rch. He died in 1728 (a will abstract is at > http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/1999-11/0942523887). He > baptized three sons at the NY RDC, but the only one mentioned in the will > was Johannes, (probably baptized 28 Dec 1718; a Johannes b-1712 presumably > dy). > > Johannes ("III") was directed to the custody of Catharina Kerfbyl Van > Alstyne (his sister) and Egbert Van Borsum (whose relationship I don't > know). Catharina likely died between 1729 (when she baptized a son) and 1735 > (when her husband, Matthew Van Alstyne, a merchant in NY, remarried). I > think Egbert Borsum was the husband of Elizabeth Benson, but find nothing > about him that indicates what happened to Johannes Kerfbyl. > > I have never seen an original record with the name Kerfbyl, so I can't say > for sure that the "f" wasn't really an old-style "s", etc. Some church > records show the name as Kerfbyle and Karbile. > > Any thoughts on the life or death of Johannes Kerfbyl "III" would be > appreciated! > > Chris Interesting to note that the English version of the marriage license granted by Lord Cornbury for Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provoost bears the date of 18 Jan 1703, as per Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 Liber 7, page 386. The published records of the New York Reformed Dutch Church [page 101] indicates the license was dated 18 Jan 1704, and they married on 23 Jan 1704. Johanes Kerfbyl, medicine doctor, and his wife Catharina Rugh made a joint will bearing the date of 1 Feb 1688; which was proved before Lord Cornbury on 4 Nov 1704, when Letters of Administration were granted to the widow Catharine Kerfbyl [see Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , Liber 7, Page 400]. Oddly enough, at the time, no mention was made of the son Johannes, although he must have been with them at the time. I have not found any further evidence of Johannes^3 Kerfbyl. Egbert Van Borsum (the husband of Elizabeth Bensen), and guardian of said Johannes Kerfbyl, made no mention of him in his will dated 12 Aug 1736; proved 26 Oct 1737 [See Abstracts of Wills Vol III 1730-1744, Liber 13, page 228]. Technically, there was no blood relationship between Egbert Van Borsum and Johannes^3 Kerfbyl, although Elizabeth Bensen's brother Mattheus Bensen had married Catharina Provoost, the sister of Margriet Provoost, who was the wife of Johannes^2 Kerfbyl. In the 'for what its worth' category, the name Kerfbyl was indexed and transcribed by the Amsterdam Municipal Archives (from the doopregister) primarily as "Kerfbijl." Johannes^2 Kerfbyl had 2 siblings baptized in Amsterdam: Cornelis, baptized 9 Sep 1665 at the Zuider kerk [DTB 95/191]; and, Catharina, baptized 9 Dec 1667 at the Nieuwe Zijds Kapel [DTB 66/108], but neither appear to have survived infancy. Regards, Pam Sears ------------------------------ To contact the DUTCH-COLONIES list administrator, send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the DUTCH-COLONIES mailing list, send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 *********************************************

Hi Chris, You wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone know of an adult record of Johannes Kerfbyl b-1718? He was the > son of Johannes Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost; ward of Catharina Kerfbyl > Van Alstyne; and possibly later the ward of Egbert Van Borsum. He was also > the grandson of Dr. Johannes Kerfbyl of NYC? > > Dr. Kerfbyl, a graduate of Leyden University, was in NY by 23 Apr 1681, when > he witnessed a baptism. He performed the high-profile autopsy of NY Governor > Henry Slaughter, who died suspiciously in Jul 1691. Kerfbyl was a founding > elder of Trinity Church, and died about 1704. > > The doctor's son, Johannes Kerfbyl ("Jr.") married Margrietje Provoost > (recorded at the NY RDC on 23 Jan 1704). He was a merchant, lived on the > north corner of Broad Street and Mill Street, and was active in Trinity Chu > rch. He died in 1728 (a will abstract is at > http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/1999-11/0942523887). He > baptized three sons at the NY RDC, but the only one mentioned in the will > was Johannes, (probably baptized 28 Dec 1718; a Johannes b-1712 presumably > dy). > > Johannes ("III") was directed to the custody of Catharina Kerfbyl Van > Alstyne (his sister) and Egbert Van Borsum (whose relationship I don't > know). Catharina likely died between 1729 (when she baptized a son) and 1735 > (when her husband, Matthew Van Alstyne, a merchant in NY, remarried). I > think Egbert Borsum was the husband of Elizabeth Benson, but find nothing > about him that indicates what happened to Johannes Kerfbyl. > > I have never seen an original record with the name Kerfbyl, so I can't say > for sure that the "f" wasn't really an old-style "s", etc. Some church > records show the name as Kerfbyle and Karbile. > > Any thoughts on the life or death of Johannes Kerfbyl "III" would be > appreciated! > > Chris Interesting to note that the English version of the marriage license granted by Lord Cornbury for Johannes Kerfbyl and Margaret Provoost bears the date of 18 Jan 1703, as per Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 Liber 7, page 386. The published records of the New York Reformed Dutch Church [page 101] indicates the license was dated 18 Jan 1704, and they married on 23 Jan 1704. Johanes Kerfbyl, medicine doctor, and his wife Catharina Rugh made a joint will bearing the date of 1 Feb 1688; which was proved before Lord Cornbury on 4 Nov 1704, when Letters of Administration were granted to the widow Catharine Kerfbyl [see Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , Liber 7, Page 400]. Oddly enough, at the time, no mention was made of the son Johannes, although he must have been with them at the time. I have not found any further evidence of Johannes^3 Kerfbyl. Egbert Van Borsum (the husband of Elizabeth Bensen), and guardian of said Johannes Kerfbyl, made no mention of him in his will dated 12 Aug 1736; proved 26 Oct 1737 [See Abstracts of Wills Vol III 1730-1744, Liber 13, page 228]. Technically, there was no blood relationship between Egbert Van Borsum and Johannes^3 Kerfbyl, although Elizabeth Bensen's brother Mattheus Bensen had married Catharina Provoost, the sister of Margriet Provoost, who was the wife of Johannes^2 Kerfbyl. In the 'for what its worth' category, the name Kerfbyl was indexed and transcribed by the Amsterdam Municipal Archives (from the doopregister) primarily as "Kerfbijl." Johannes^2 Kerfbyl had 2 siblings baptized in Amsterdam: Cornelis, baptized 9 Sep 1665 at the Zuider kerk [DTB 95/191]; and, Catharina, baptized 9 Dec 1667 at the Nieuwe Zijds Kapel [DTB 66/108], but neither appear to have survived infancy. Regards, Pam Sears

The Averys and the Heimbachs and Yaples and Dumonds (DuMont/DuMond etc.)seem to be closely tied for several generations. Here is the Heimbach and Yaple family short course: Please contact me off list to get fuller version. :-) Matthias Heimbach and two bothers, Peter and Adam came to America from the region of Germany near present day Baumholder. Their family village is Heimbach Am Nehe a couple miles from Baumholder. Their names were really: Johannes Peter, Johannes Adam and Johannes Matthias, and they were sons of Johnnes Heimbach/Hymbach and Maria Englelin of Heimbach Am Nehe and Illgesheim villages. Illgesheim is no longer in existance. It is under the present day Baumholder air base. Matthias Heimbach settled in Lehigh Co. PA. There he married Susanna Vasqueau /Wiscoe/Wisko. She came to the area from Alsace with her brother Franz and was joined by their father Philip. Susanna and Matthias had four children and Matthias seems to have been a farmer and blacksmith. He died suddenly and left her with the small children to raise. A neighbor, Henry/Philip Henry Jebel's wife had just died leaving with small children. They married. They moved to NY before the Rev. War, as Pakatakatan (spelled every-which-way) was being settled in NY, present Delaware Co. area. The first families: Dumonds, Van Wagenens, Hendriks, were joined by the Jebels/Yaples plus Susannas' son, Peter Heimbach. There he met Catherine Dumond and married her. A Yaple son married into the Avery family, Peter Avery and Mary Yaple, specifically. Later when the families made the move to Ithaca area and then some on to Erie Co. PA, Averys went too. Peter Heimbach and Catherine Dumond's daughter Sally/Sellie Heimbach married Benjamin Avery. So you find a trail of Heimbachs/Himpaws, Kinpaws (every spelling possible!!!), Yaples, Dumonds, Averys along the way from Kingston to Delaware Co. NY to Ithaca/Danby NY to Erie Co. PA. I would like to find out more about your Averys. Susanna Vesqueau Heimbach Yaple was supposed to have lived with Mary and Pieter Avery until her death. They are buried together in a cemetery near Margaretville, (near where Peter and Mary lived,but I'm not certain which one. Peter and Mary were supposed to have requested that the graves not have stones! (All that old graven-image stuff.) Please contact me and we'll talk more. Also, I'd love to hear from other people from these families I've mentioned or who have Delaware Co. NY lines. I'm working on a book about the Heimbach family with Jane Daily. We want to include as much as we can. Elsie Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

In a message dated 2/11/2007 10:08:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com writes: Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m Major Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com John, yes I would like to have the genealogy report. Thank you!! Jean Peppers

Just prior to the Rev. War and after, my Kingston families (Heimbach, Yaple, Dumond, Van Wagenen) were in the back country of what is now Delaware Co. NY, at Pakatakatan (present-day Margaretville and New Kingston). During the war, they were refugees back down in Kingston. But returned to Pakatakatan after the war. But, they considered their home church that of Kingston. They would have their children baptized "when they could" and marriages blessed "when they could." They just could not drop everything and bring a new baby the long trip over the mountains to get baptized as soon as it was born. Sometimes the marriages were performed at Kingston and sometimes by a traveling minister. By 1789, a group of these families moved to where Ithaca, NY is now as the first four families to settle that area. Peter Heimbach and his wife, Catherine Dumond, Catherine's brother, Peter's Yaple half-brothers were among those families. One brother made the long journey back to Kingston to marry is intended and they journeyed back to Ithaca. These families were very religious, but they had to do as best they could to carry out the ceremonies of the church. Thus, there are spotty records from many families that started moving into the back country at that time. Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Hi I did locate this KMaria Van Alstine. her line : Martin; Jan Martinse; Lambert; Thomas; William; Maria m Major Richard Esselstein. This from a world family tree cd rom#9 family 3615 if you need more details I can try for a genealogy report . - by attachment, so it has to be offlist. let me know if interested JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <chilipepper5454@aol.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Charity Van Hoesen married Richard MorrisEsselstyn > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 3:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pspro1123@aol.com writes: > > Who are Richard's parents ?? > > > > His parents were; > > Name: Richard ESSELSTYN Given Name: Richard Surname: Esselstyn Sex: M > Birth: 2 Sep 1731 Death: 30 Oct 1783 > > and > > Name: Maria VAN ALSTINE Given Name: Maria Surname: Van Alstine Sex: F > Birth: 11 Jan 1744 > > Jean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

HI I had good luck with the NY G&B Record magazine, many of the church records were published serially You may have to go back to issues published in 1930s etc. My families were located in the Dutch churches in Coxsackie, Catskill. Kinderhook, Claverack, and Kingston, too as well as Zion Lutheran ?Church at Athens. I found the series in the library at Syracuse, I assume other libraries would too. I was doing the search in the 1950s and some of the lists were current in those issues. good luck.JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay > ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This > was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as churches > picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more meticulous > than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were even > so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were > baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. > > So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of the > genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some > degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this > same period often there are no written, extant, church records. > > Edward Otte > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. Not > all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became > available. > I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the > Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. > > Tom Terbush > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM > To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms > > Hello, > I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while > scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking and I > would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on Sept. > 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that everyone > with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies baptized. > Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It is > just something that has got me curious. > Does anyone know why this is? > Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Depending on the year, churches were mostly run by elders, and lay ministers. Ordained ministers revolved around a circuit of churches. This was common early on in the 17th Century and became less common as churches picked up permanent clergymen. Some of those clergymen were more meticulous than others and the birthdates were also recorded. Sometimes they were even so good as to record where the family lived. Many, for example, were baptized say in Kingston, but lived far away, say Wawarsing. So there is some measure of difficulty in figuring out many aspects of the genealogy of a family or a child of Dutch descent in New York and to some degree New Jersey. But then again if you have English ancestors from this same period often there are no written, extant, church records. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Terbush Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:00 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms Availability of ordained minister who could Administer the sacrament. Not all churches had ministers full-time, thus had to wait until one became available. I have ancestors who had all their children who were born during the Revolutionary War baptized the same day after the war was over. Tom Terbush -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of l. s. Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:32 PM To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kingston Church Ulster Co. baptisms Hello, I went to the online site for these baptisms for this church and while scanning, I noticed 35 baptisms dated June 20. Then I started checking and I would see batches of same date baptisms. A great deal of them were on Sept. 11. I realize these aren't the birth dates. It occurred to me that everyone with newborns, must have waited for some time to have these babies baptized. Or was that a custom of the church to do all new births at one time? It is just something that has got me curious. Does anyone know why this is? Leemae from Mi.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message