Hi Liz, From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anna HERMAN > Does anyone know of any positive documentation showing that Ann (or > Anna) HERMAN, said to be the sister of Augustine HERMAN, came to the > American colonies? I don't see anything in Stokes' Icon., in David Riker's Directory or in Evjen that indicates a sister, Anna. You can read Evjen here: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycoloni/evjen/414evj.html It might help if you reported where and by whom it was "said" that he had such a sister and what else they said about her. He had a daughter, Anna Margareta bp. 10 Mar 1658 in New Amsterdam. Riker says she and her husband removed to Maryland in 1703. Could this be the Anna you want? > Do baptism, marriage, or death records exist for her?? Did she leave a will? Since the above sources say Augustine was born in Prague, that is where you should look for baptisms of any alleged siblings. Be sure to search using Heermans, etc. as well. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Does anyone know of any positive documentation showing that Ann (or Anna) HERMAN, said to be the sister of Augustine HERMAN, came to the American colonies? Do baptism, marriage, or death records exist for her?? Did she leave a will? Thanks very much, Liz J

Thanks, Theo, good point. Can you (or anyone else out there) tell me how "Kerfbijl" would have been pronounced in 17th century Dutch? Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Schopfer" <cjschopfer@gmail.com> > To: <huguenots-walloons-europe@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:07 PM > Subject: [HWE] KERFBYL, Amterdam to New York abt 1681 > > > > Hello, all: > > > > I'm interested in thoughts on the pronunciation and origins of the name > > "Kerfbyl". Johannes Kerfbyl, son of Cornelis Jan Kerfbyl, was baptized > in > > New Amsterdam in 1634 and emigrated to New York between 1664 and 1681. > > > > I suspect the name was French, since it appears to have been a surname, > > even in 1634. Does anyone know how this surname would have been > pronounced > > in the 17th century? n particular, I'm interested in which syllable > would > > have been accented, and whether the "f" and "l" would have been silent. > > Variants of the name (including those for succeeding generations) in > > America > > included Kerfbyle, Karbile, Carbile, and Kerbile. > > > > I'm also curious as to whether Cornelis Jans Kerfbyl and/or his father > > were > > Huguenots. > > > > Any help is appreciated! > > > > Chris >

Thank you so much for these wills. It is so good to find cousinss who have info. I need to find somewhere to get this information. I do appreciate your sharing. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: <UngerBMCM@aol.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Marston-Bloodgood (Was: Location ofWolster/Welster?) > In a message dated 2/24/2007 11:33:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, > pjsears@stratos.net writes: > >> See the will of John Marston of Flushing, dated 23 Sep >> 1712; proved 14 Apr 1721; Abstract of wills on file in the Surrogate's >> Office, City of New York (Volume II. 1708-1728), Liber 9, pages 232-233] >> > Here are some of my notes: > > Abstracts of Wills Vol II 1708-1728, pages 232 & 233: > Page 231.--JOHN MARSTON. I, John Marston, of Flushing, in Queens County, > being at this present indisposed of body. I leave to my sons, Francis and > Cornelius, all my lands and meadows within the bounds of Flushing, with > the > housing and orchards. "My will is that if my eldest son Francis shall see > cause, or incline to this place where I now live, he hath his liberty to > take > or refuse, as to him shall best seem meet," together with the 20 acre lot > lying upon the east side of Thomas Hinchman's land. "My will is further, > that > the place where my said son Francis now lives, with the Housing and land > thereto belonging, with the 10 acre lot of land lying upon the south side > of > > the Hills, I leave these to my son Cornelius, But if he die without issue, > then to my son, John Marston." And whereas the 20 acre lot purchased from > Colonel Thomas Willett, the deed being made to my son Francis. If my son > Francis shall accept this homestead, where I now live, then he shall be > obliged to give a deed for the same to my son Cornelius. I leave to my > sons > Francis and Cornelius, all my meadow, salt and fresh, both in the town of > Flushing and at the South, in Jamaica bounds. To my son Cornelius 3 > horses, > and a plow and wagon, And I leave them all my carpenter tools. All the > rest > of my estate, horses, cattle and household goods to my granddaughters, > Isabel > Hoff, and Elizabeth Gardner, and my grandson, John Hoff, the son of my > daughter, Isabel Hoff, deceased. I make my sons, Francis and Cornelius, > and > my brother-in-law, William Bloodgood, executors. > > Dated September 23, 1712 Witnesses, Anthony Glean, James Haight, James > Clement. Proved, April 14, 1721, before Henry Wileman, appointed by > Governor > > Burnet. > > vernor > Burnet. > > > John Marston, the father of the aid John , was one of the 18 men > granted a charter for the town of Flushing on 10 Oct 1645. > See _Laws and ordinances of New Netherland, 1638-1674,_ > by E. B, O'Callaghan, 1868, pp. 48-51. > > > > Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , Page 15 > Page 61.--JOHN MARSTON, Flushing. "I will that my two sons, John and > Cornelius, shall live with my well beloved friend John Hinchman and to be > wholly at > his disposall till they come of age, and he is to have the oversight of > all my > estate." Leaves all to his two sons when of age. Leaves to daughter > Elizabeth > a gold ring, and to daughter Katherine a silver thimble. "This is my full > will > and my sons' desire, as witness our hands this 14th February, 1670/71." > > Witnesses, Robert Terry, Joseph Thorne, John Marston, Sr., John Marston, > Jr., Cornelius Marston. > > Page 62.--Whereas JOHN MARSTON, of Flushing, in the North Riding of > Yorkshire, upon Long Island, dyed in ye month of February last, and made a > will > wherein he leaves John Hinchman of the same place to be the guardian of > his two > sons. Which will according to ye usual custom of the Law ought to be > proved at ye > next Court of Sessions, and it soe falling out that noe Court is to be > held > until the month of June during which time the estate may be impaired." The > said > John Hinchman is confirmed as administrator, April 6, 1671. > > > > ************************************** > AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

In a message dated 2/24/2007 11:33:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, pjsears@stratos.net writes: > See the will of John Marston of Flushing, dated 23 Sep > 1712; proved 14 Apr 1721; Abstract of wills on file in the Surrogate's > Office, City of New York (Volume II. 1708-1728), Liber 9, pages 232-233] > Here are some of my notes: Abstracts of Wills Vol II 1708-1728, pages 232 & 233: Page 231.--JOHN MARSTON. I, John Marston, of Flushing, in Queens County, being at this present indisposed of body. I leave to my sons, Francis and Cornelius, all my lands and meadows within the bounds of Flushing, with the housing and orchards. "My will is that if my eldest son Francis shall see cause, or incline to this place where I now live, he hath his liberty to take or refuse, as to him shall best seem meet," together with the 20 acre lot lying upon the east side of Thomas Hinchman's land. "My will is further, that the place where my said son Francis now lives, with the Housing and land thereto belonging, with the 10 acre lot of land lying upon the south side of the Hills, I leave these to my son Cornelius, But if he die without issue, then to my son, John Marston." And whereas the 20 acre lot purchased from Colonel Thomas Willett, the deed being made to my son Francis. If my son Francis shall accept this homestead, where I now live, then he shall be obliged to give a deed for the same to my son Cornelius. I leave to my sons Francis and Cornelius, all my meadow, salt and fresh, both in the town of Flushing and at the South, in Jamaica bounds. To my son Cornelius 3 horses, and a plow and wagon, And I leave them all my carpenter tools. All the rest of my estate, horses, cattle and household goods to my granddaughters, Isabel Hoff, and Elizabeth Gardner, and my grandson, John Hoff, the son of my daughter, Isabel Hoff, deceased. I make my sons, Francis and Cornelius, and my brother-in-law, William Bloodgood, executors. Dated September 23, 1712 Witnesses, Anthony Glean, James Haight, James Clement. Proved, April 14, 1721, before Henry Wileman, appointed by Governor Burnet. vernor Burnet. John Marston, the father of the aid John , was one of the 18 men granted a charter for the town of Flushing on 10 Oct 1645. See _Laws and ordinances of New Netherland, 1638-1674,_ by E. B, O'Callaghan, 1868, pp. 48-51. Abstracts of Wills Vol I 1665-1707 , Page 15 Page 61.--JOHN MARSTON, Flushing. "I will that my two sons, John and Cornelius, shall live with my well beloved friend John Hinchman and to be wholly at his disposall till they come of age, and he is to have the oversight of all my estate." Leaves all to his two sons when of age. Leaves to daughter Elizabeth a gold ring, and to daughter Katherine a silver thimble. "This is my full will and my sons' desire, as witness our hands this 14th February, 1670/71." Witnesses, Robert Terry, Joseph Thorne, John Marston, Sr., John Marston, Jr., Cornelius Marston. Page 62.--Whereas JOHN MARSTON, of Flushing, in the North Riding of Yorkshire, upon Long Island, dyed in ye month of February last, and made a will wherein he leaves John Hinchman of the same place to be the guardian of his two sons. Which will according to ye usual custom of the Law ought to be proved at ye next Court of Sessions, and it soe falling out that noe Court is to be held until the month of June during which time the estate may be impaired." The said John Hinchman is confirmed as administrator, April 6, 1671. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Yes, I am also related to the Des Marets, and all that group of Hollanders, French and what not. Grandad always said we were kin to Simon de Montfort, no proof to date, just about 300 years in between generations. But, since the Montfort's lived to be almost 100 the generations would be shorter. I also have Von Voorhees, which means they were from in front of the town of Hees, and that was told me by a Dutch person. I just now saw you weree in Hackensack. How I wish I could come up there and do research. I am not able to travel so now I am a computer junkie. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara de Mare" <barbarademare@yahoo.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? Hi Donna, The de Montfort name sounds familiar. I think they may be related to the de Mares, my ex-huabands family. "de" literally means "of," as does "Van" in Dutch and "Von" in German. I thought the word followinf the "de" was as is "Van" and "Von" the place from which they sprung. My father-in-law always claimed he was a baron, but I never really believed him. If the French girl is correct, maybe I should have. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Stark <donnaStarkKy@fewpb.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:13:13 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? I am also related to the Bloodgoods, but have done little research on them. The mother of Kniertje Marston was Geertje Bloodgood. I had a girl from France stay with me for a week and she said the "de" means of Royalty. She was born and lives in France, just came to the states for a visit between classes to be a doctor. My ancestor was de Montfort from Valenciennes, and my mother was a Montfort. I should join the Founders and Patriots for I will be the last. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of > place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Donna, You wrote: > I am also related to the Bloodgoods, but have done little research on them. > The mother of Kniertje Marston was Geertje Frans Bloodgood. > Don't you mean that Kniertje Marston was the _granddaughter_ of Geertje Frans Bloodgood? The marriage record of Jan Marston and Geertje Bloodgood is given in Dutch on page 214 of David William Voorhees' edition of the Flatbush Church records, and the English translation is on page 215: The couple was betrothed on 19 Nov 1677 and married at Brooklyn on 9 Dec 1677: "Jan Mastingh, young man at Flushing with Geertje Franssen Bloedgoed, young lady from Amsterdam in Holland, residing at Flushing..." Frans Marston was baptized at the New York Reformed Dutch Church on 30 Oct 1678 [page 134 of the published records]: Jan Maston, Geertie Frans; Frans; Pieter Janszen, Lysbeth Bloetgoet Kniertje Marston was named after her maternal grandmother, Kniertje Pieters Meet, and was the daughter of Frans Marston (son of Johannes Marston and Geertje Frans Bloodgood) and Maria Haff (daughter of Laurens Juriaenszen Haff and Kniertje Pieters Meet). [Note: Johannes Marston and wife Geertje Frans Bloodgood had no daughter named Kniertje. See the will of John Marston of Flushing, dated 23 Sep 1712; proved 14 Apr 1721; Abstract of wills on file in the Surrogate's Office, City of New York (Volume II. 1708-1728), Liber 9, pages 232-233] Kniertje Marston (styled "Conertie") was named in the will of her father, Francis Marston of Flushing, dated 23 Mar 1748, proved 17 Aug 1748. See Abstracts of wills on file in the Surrogate's Office, City of New York (Volume IV. 1744-1753), Liber 16, page 192. For further research on the Bloodgood family, see the book, _Ancestors and Descendants of Captain Frans Janse Bloetgoet, Vol 1..., 1963, by George Bloodgood (1966; revised 1980). Best regards, Pam Sears

Hi all, See: http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/02/search_for_desc.html#more The text of the Remonstrance is here: http://www.nyym.org/flushing/remons.html Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

I think I wrote you about the Dutch Cousins in KY gathering. Please put me on the list for info. Margery Freas -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Whiteside Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:21 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Dutch Cousins -KY - Sept 28-30 Email is fine with me...send to ktdink@earthlink.net you are so organized...I guess you are a first born child....or at the least a Capricorn..or worse, like me...you are both. LOL Barbara Whiteside ktdink@eartlhlink.net bobbeo60@yahoo.com Carolyn Leonard <buffalo234@cox.net> wrote: Just a word about the Dutch Cousins Gathering to be Sept 28-30 2007 in Shelbyville, KY. I am preparing a newsletter with registration info to be mailed and emailed pretty quickly. It will have info for the motels, RV parks, a bus tour of the old Dutch Tract, meals etc. I prefer to send email to save time and postage, so if you and have high speed and can open pdf attachments please send me ASAP your email address to Buffalo234@cox.net. If not, please send your snail mail address same address. This is going to be a wonderful weekend and you won't want to miss a minute of it. Cousin to Cousin We'll Always Be Special Friends >From the Same Family Tree. Hugs, Carolyn Remember you have a friend in Oklahoma -- endlessly sorting out dead relatives! Researching COZINE in Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Nieuw Amsterdam (New York) and the Netherlands. See the photos of our DUTCH COUSINS gathering in Kentucky in 2005 here: http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum33.html and The Anderson Cow Palace meeting house http://homepage.mac.com/carolynleonard/Dutch_Cousins/PhotoAlbum32.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Barbara Whiteside bobbeo60@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am also related to the Bloodgoods, but have done little research on them. The mother of Kniertje Marston was Geertje Bloodgood. I had a girl from France stay with me for a week and she said the "de" means of Royalty. She was born and lives in France, just came to the states for a visit between classes to be a doctor. My ancestor was de Montfort from Valenciennes, and my mother was a Montfort. I should join the Founders and Patriots for I will be the last. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of > place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Donna, The de Montfort name sounds familiar. I think they may be related to the de Mares, my ex-huabands family. "de" literally means "of," as does "Van" in Dutch and "Von" in German. I thought the word followinf the "de" was as is "Van" and "Von" the place from which they sprung. My father-in-law always claimed he was a baron, but I never really believed him. If the French girl is correct, maybe I should have. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Stark <donnaStarkKy@fewpb.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:13:13 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? I am also related to the Bloodgoods, but have done little research on them. The mother of Kniertje Marston was Geertje Bloodgood. I had a girl from France stay with me for a week and she said the "de" means of Royalty. She was born and lives in France, just came to the states for a visit between classes to be a doctor. My ancestor was de Montfort from Valenciennes, and my mother was a Montfort. I should join the Founders and Patriots for I will be the last. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Location of Wolster/Welster? Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of > place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is not intended as a personal revelation, rather a means of pointing out to everyone just how important knowing your family history, both medical as well as genealogical really is. Sixteen years ago, I had ovarian cancer. Naturally my daughters and sibling and nieces were concerned about being next. I felt like typhoid Mary. My Doctor provided me with the opportunity to have genetic testing done and since I live near the Philadelphia, I took advantage of that. I could see that my daughters doctors thought that obvious choice was to use surgery as a preventative but my doctor, who by the way is one of the top doc's in Phila, felt that this was overkill and needless because of the type I had. I had spent the past 16 years worrying about what kind of heritage had I passed on to my girls. In my case, I was the only one who could take the blood test, as you had to have had the disease to do so. Prior to my session with the counseler, which was also part of a breast/ovarian study, I had gone back through all the ladies in my family to see if I knew how they had died or, and or the age when they died. I also noted their heritage, which country they emigrated from and their ethnic background. This is very important. I knew my own maternal grandmother from whom I thought I might have inherited this problem had died mid-50's, however, everyone else in my maternal line lived long lives. So I worked up a sheet, giving their names and dates and medical history, if I knew it, back into the 1700's. I took my sheet with me, and discovered that I was the first person out hundreds etc. that had ever provided them with this information, which made it a lot easier for both of us. Most people don't have a clue about their families past. Using this information, along with a blood test that my insurance company actually paid for even though it was a couple thousand dollars was worth every penny. Turns out I did not have a genetic mutation, and the fact that my ancestors came from certain regions of the world, the ages that they died really made a different both to the study, to me and to their information bank. So my girls, with some semi month monitoring are good to go, a big relief to all of us. If you have not done so, take the time, as you work on your family lines, to note similarities in ages of deaths for both men and women, see what you can find out, and note which regions of the world that your ancestors came from and keep it handy. I find that I have become more conscious of this when I am working on anyone's family lines, If see some kind of pattern, I incllude that in my report. I recently noted that in one family line, that the women seemed to be dying at an early age in childbirth and pointed that out to the person I was assisting. Keep in mind, that some diseases can cross male to female, so when investigating a particular family lines, check those cousins of the brothers of the victim. You will be doing your family or client a big favor by taking the time and who knows just whose life you might save or extend a little longer. Judy Cassidy <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Chris, > Here are a few "outiside the box" thoughts, Howard: Thanks. > Have you considered the possibility that Wolster/Welster is a type of place, > rather than a political subdivision? I'm thinking along the lines of the > Hague, which I've read means the hedge, although it obviously eventually > became a city name. I had not thought of that; but my Dutch dictionary doesn't show anything that looks likely. But that is a good thing to keep in mind. Another thing it could have been is a farm name. > I'm also thinking of such "Vander" names as Van der Hoef > (Hof meaning yard or station or station in German), which also makes me > think that "van der" implies Germanic roots, whereas I think of "van de" > implies Dutch. It is true that in modern Dutch the word "de" has only one form. -- is not declined. Perhaps in the middle ages it was. I once asked one of the knowledgeable Dutch people on the list why they had these other forms in certain Dutch names. As I recall, he said, essentially, that the family liked the sournd of the name better that way. Although, I suppose that if Dutch once had these forms that the name could have retained this archaic spelling even as the language changed. An example of this in a French name is De Forest. If you go back to the middle ages, the French word for forest was -- forest. At some point the spelling changed to the present forêt, but the name has retained the old spelling. Hof in modern Dutch means garden. And then there is Van den Berg. In many ways Dutch and German are so close it is tough to separate. One thing does seem to hold though: van is Dutch and von is German. One thing I didn't mention was that another Dutch family I've been researching is Bloodgood. As shown in his marriage record he was from Gouda. He was known as Frans Jansen Bloodgood or just Frans Bloodgood. Except for a single record where he is called "Frans Bloetgoet van der Goude." So, I'm thinking the same thing could have happened for my Pieter Pauluszen. That is, that they were merely showing where he was from. Now, why they didn't say simply "van", I don't know. > Also, I assume you've seen the family that appears to have been Woltzer in > the 17th century but Wolster in the 18th: > http://www.deltgen.com/deltgen/f_4d2.html#30 I hadn't seen that. Maybe I should look in Luxembourg. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Thanks, Steve, and others who replied. This was very helpful. And yes, in my query about mistranscribed names, I managed to mistranscribe the date! All three sources I quoted show the correct date, 23 Jun 1721. Chris On 2/21/07, SMabie@aol.com <SMabie@aol.com> wrote: > > > Chris, > > First of all, I believe that you are absolutely correct in that all of the > various films that the LDS has listed for baptisms in the New York > Reformed > Church post 1697 are films of various transcriptions and NOT films of the > actual > record books. I looked into this issue a few years ago and was told at > that time that the only place to see the actual record books was at the > headquarters of the Reformed Church in America (in New Jersey, I think, > perhaps New > Brunswick?) and that they did not open up the books to just anyone > (like me.) > > Second, I have found that by far the most reliable transcription of those > records are the books published by the NYG&BS (1901), edited by Thomas > Grier > Evans. Further, I believe that this was the source that was used for > the > on-line Olive Tree version. I note that the other two sources you cite > are > clearly secondary sources that would have little credibility. > > I took the liberty to look up (in Evans) the two baptisms you > asked about. > Sure enough, on 28 Dec 1718 (page 409), the child's name is listed as > "Joannes". The second baptism you want is NOT listed on the date > you stated (23 Mar > 1721). Instead, it was on 16 July 1721 (page 428), and the child's name > is > listed as "Jonathan." Note that I also check the corrections pages, but > there were none for these years. > > Over the years, we have had several debates on this mail list as to > whether > or not the names Joannes, Johannes and John were the same or different > names, > with numerous examples provided to support both hypotheses. But in the > case > of Jonathan, the weight of the evidence always seems to support the > contention that it is a different name than the others. So, lacking any > additional > evidence or knowledge of this family, I would expect that these were > baptisms > for two sons, one named Johannes and the other Jonathan. > > I hope this is of some help. > > Steve > > In a message dated 2/21/2007 11:59:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, > cjschopfer@gmail.com writes: > > Hello, all: > > How can I view original (or credible images of original) NY RDC baptism > records? In particular, I'm looking for children of Johannes > Karbile/Carbile/Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost on 28 Dec 1718 and 23 Mar > 1721. > > Three known transcriptions give varying combinations of these: > Olive Tree Genealogy ( > http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/rdcbapt.shtml) > shows the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Jonathan". > Long Island Genealogy (http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html) > shows the 1718 child as "Johannes" (with an "h") and the 1721 child as > "Jonathan". > An 1895 book (Provost, Andrew J., *Biographical and Genealogical Notes of > the Provost Family from 1545 to 1895. New York: unknown, 1895, 159 > Pages.) *shows > the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Johannes" (rather than > "Jonathan"). > > I looked for a microfilm on the LDS website, but unless I missed it, the > only film with images of baptisms ends in 1697. To my surprise, the > others > appear to be transcriptions. > > Chris > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ethel, From: <ETHELKK@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Wanamaker - Rev Kocherthal records > Thanks to all who answered my query on Wanamaker. > > I asked for the source of the marriage record of Dietrich Wanamaker and his > first wife Anna Margarethe Luz. See 'The Palatine Families of New York' by > Henry Jones, page 1062. "By his 1st wife Anna Margaretha Luz, formerly of > Lengfeld aus dem Waldeckschen - a maid servant at Leeheim, whom he married > Thursday after...Ephip.: 1709 at Leeheim." If Epiphany is January 6, any > idea what the date is the Thursday after Epiphany? First, you have to determine if they were using the Gregorian or Julian calendar. According to The Comprehensive Genealogical Feast Day Calendar by Inger Bukke, et al (FHL micro fiche #6054630), p. 34, by 1700 even the Protestant German states had changed to Gregorian. Now go here: http://www.calendarhome.com/tyc/original.html Choose 1709 and select 1582 for the "Calendar change in year" (to get Gregorian). Then click on Year at a Glance. You will see that Jan 6 is on a Sunday and that the Thursday after that is Jan 10. > Timeline: Married January 1709 in Leeheim. Among the poor souls sitting > in the harbor Dec 1909 til April 1710. Arrive in New York the Summer of > 1710. July 1710 on Hunter list in New York. August 1710, first child bp in > New York. Additions and/or corrections to my timeline welcome. There are also lists of Palatines who crossed from Rotterdam to London in the spring and summer of 1709 in appendices in Knittle. But I did not see your people. Another reference you might want to check is the Publications of the Huguenot Society of London, vol. XXVII, Letters of Denization and Acts of Naturalization... 1701-1800. I don't know if people in the 1709-1710 group got denizations or not. The 1708 Kochertahl partly did and is on pp. 67-68. > Howard, you will love this story. Howard Swain wrote "Your best source for > Palatines to New York would be Henry Z. Jones' three books. In particular > his book, Even More Palatine Families, vol. 3 has the best version of the > Hunter subsistence lists of 1710 to 1713." I looked at the book More Palatine > Families and the Hunter lists were not there. I'm smart enough to know that I > must be doing something wrong and finally I noticed the word I overlooked > EVEN. I went on another search. I thought afterward that I should have emphasized that his 3rd "book" consists of 3 vols. So, I'm glad you found it. My library has his first work of Palatines to NY in the F130s with NY. But the later works are in E184, with general immigration, I guess. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Try : Low Dutch: When you get that, you will find Dutch births and marriages for many years. Hopefully you will find yours. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schopfer" <cjschopfer@gmail.com> To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kerfbyl/Karbile/Carbile-Provoost Baptisms in NYRDC Records > Hello, all: > > How can I view original (or credible images of original) NY RDC baptism > records? In particular, I'm looking for children of Johannes > Karbile/Carbile/Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost on 28 Dec 1718 and 23 Mar > 1721. > > Three known transcriptions give varying combinations of these: > Olive Tree Genealogy > (http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/rdcbapt.shtml) > shows the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Jonathan". > Long Island Genealogy (http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html) > shows the 1718 child as "Johannes" (with an "h") and the 1721 child as > "Jonathan". > An 1895 book (Provost, Andrew J., *Biographical and Genealogical Notes of > the Provost Family from 1545 to 1895. New York: unknown, 1895, 159 > Pages.) *shows > the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Johannes" (rather than > "Jonathan"). > > I looked for a microfilm on the LDS website, but unless I missed it, the > only film with images of baptisms ends in 1697. To my surprise, the others > appear to be transcriptions. > > Chris > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Original message dated 2/19/2007 barbarademare@yahoo.com writes: Thank you, Howard for your wonderful explanation. It is what I believed, but had no time to look up. The question interested me because of the Darmstadt connection. I think I have ancestors from there (although I can't find them off hand), and was wondering how you obtained the records from the Darmstadt church. Barbara ----------------------------------- Barbara, The Darmstadt connection is from The Palatine Families of New York by Henry Z Jones, Jr p. 1061,1062. I do not have Darmstadt church records. DIETRICH WANNEMACHER (Hunter Lists #781) "John Dietrich Wannenmacher of Leheim in Darmstad married Anna Kunigunda Kernmann, daughter of Johann of the same place on 29 Nov 1710. (West Camp Lutheran Chbk.). The German roots of this N.J. family then were at 6086 Leeheim (15 km. west of Darmstadt; Chbks. begin 1611, but gaps). . ." [p.1061] "By his 1st wife Anna Margaretha Luz, formerly of Lengfeld aus dem Waldeckschen - a maid servant at Leeheim, whom he married Thursday after...Ephip.: 1709 at Leeheim." [p.1062] Ethel Kay Konight <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks to all who answered my query on Wanamaker. I asked for the source of the marriage record of Dietrich Wanamaker and his first wife Anna Margarethe Luz. See 'The Palatine Families of New York' by Henry Jones, page 1062. "By his 1st wife Anna Margaretha Luz, formerly of Lengfeld aus dem Waldeckschen - a maid servant at Leeheim, whom he married Thursday after...Ephip.: 1709 at Leeheim." If Epiphany is January 6, any idea what the date is the Thursday after Epiphany? Their first child is bp 27 August 1710 in New York. Rev Kocherthal Records. "In the same year, having returned to the province, I baptized the following at New York:" Johann Michael, child of Johann Dietrich and Anna Margretha Wanenmacher; sponsor: Michael Storr. Baptized: 27 August 1710. Rev. Kocherthal Records The Book of Names [McWethy p.17] Dietrich Wannemacher is on the 1 July 1710 New York Hunter List. [Even More Palatine Families, by Henry Jones p.1783] Most of the Palatines boarded ships for New York in December 1909 and never left England until April 1710. They sailed on eleven ships. Arrived the summer of 1710 in New York. Timeline: Married January 1709 in Leeheim. Among the poor souls sitting in the harbor Dec 1909 til April 1710. Arrive in New York the Summer of 1710. July 1710 on Hunter list in New York. August 1710, first child bp in New York. Additions and/or corrections to my timeline welcome. Howard, you will love this story. Howard Swain wrote "Your best source for Palatines to New York would be Henry Z. Jones' three books. In particular his book, Even More Palatine Families, vol. 3 has the best version of the Hunter subsistence lists of 1710 to 1713." I looked at the book More Palatine Families and the Hunter lists were not there. I'm smart enough to know that I must be doing something wrong and finally I noticed the word I overlooked EVEN. I went on another search. Jones wrote The Palatine Families of New York and More Palatine Families and Even More Palatine Families. Suggested title for his next book, 'I Found Even More Palatine Families'. A big thank you to all. Regards, Ethel Kay Konight ========================================= Original message dated 2/18/2007 Adam Wanamaker (Jr). son of Adam Wanamaker (Sr) and Dorothea, married Anna Margaretta and they had six children born in Leeheim, Darmstadt, Germany. I am trying to find the about date when they emigrated to New York and if they were part of the 1708 Palatine migration. Their eldest son Dietrich, bp 4 Oct 1682 in Leeheim, and Anna Margaret Luz, were supposedly married January 1709 by the Rev. J. Kocherthal. I have the West Camp Lutheran Church, NY records by Rev. Kocherthal and the marriage is not recorded in the records. Their first child Michael bp 27 Aug 1710 is entered on page 17. If they were married January 1709, would they be included in the first migration in 1708. Is there a list of the 1708 Palatines. Ethel Source: The Book of Names Especially Relating to the Early Palatines and the First Settlers in the Mohawk Valley. Compiled and Arranged by Lou D MacWethy Gen Pub Co 1969 Among the many records are the Rev Joshua Kocherthal records. [A good book if you have Palatine ancestors.] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Chris, First of all, I believe that you are absolutely correct in that all of the various films that the LDS has listed for baptisms in the New York Reformed Church post 1697 are films of various transcriptions and NOT films of the actual record books. I looked into this issue a few years ago and was told at that time that the only place to see the actual record books was at the headquarters of the Reformed Church in America (in New Jersey, I think, perhaps New Brunswick?) and that they did not open up the books to just anyone (like me.) Second, I have found that by far the most reliable transcription of those records are the books published by the NYG&BS (1901), edited by Thomas Grier Evans. Further, I believe that this was the source that was used for the on-line Olive Tree version. I note that the other two sources you cite are clearly secondary sources that would have little credibility. I took the liberty to look up (in Evans) the two baptisms you asked about. Sure enough, on 28 Dec 1718 (page 409), the child's name is listed as "Joannes". The second baptism you want is NOT listed on the date you stated (23 Mar 1721). Instead, it was on 16 July 1721 (page 428), and the child's name is listed as "Jonathan." Note that I also check the corrections pages, but there were none for these years. Over the years, we have had several debates on this mail list as to whether or not the names Joannes, Johannes and John were the same or different names, with numerous examples provided to support both hypotheses. But in the case of Jonathan, the weight of the evidence always seems to support the contention that it is a different name than the others. So, lacking any additional evidence or knowledge of this family, I would expect that these were baptisms for two sons, one named Johannes and the other Jonathan. I hope this is of some help. Steve In a message dated 2/21/2007 11:59:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, cjschopfer@gmail.com writes: Hello, all: How can I view original (or credible images of original) NY RDC baptism records? In particular, I'm looking for children of Johannes Karbile/Carbile/Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost on 28 Dec 1718 and 23 Mar 1721. Three known transcriptions give varying combinations of these: Olive Tree Genealogy (http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/rdcbapt.shtml) shows the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Jonathan". Long Island Genealogy (http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html) shows the 1718 child as "Johannes" (with an "h") and the 1721 child as "Jonathan". An 1895 book (Provost, Andrew J., *Biographical and Genealogical Notes of the Provost Family from 1545 to 1895. New York: unknown, 1895, 159 Pages.) *shows the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Johannes" (rather than "Jonathan"). I looked for a microfilm on the LDS website, but unless I missed it, the only film with images of baptisms ends in 1697. To my surprise, the others appear to be transcriptions. Chris <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

I believe the transcriptions are on the Olive Tree Genealogy site. Probably Lorine could tell you if there are any original images available. The Johannes with and without the h would be the same name. Lots of old records had inconsistencies with the spellings of both surnames and given names. I am not positive if Jonathan is a substitute for Johannes. Margaret Scheffler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schopfer" <cjschopfer@gmail.com> To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Kerfbyl/Karbile/Carbile-Provoost Baptisms in NY RDC Records > Hello, all: > > How can I view original (or credible images of original) NY RDC baptism > records? In particular, I'm looking for children of Johannes > Karbile/Carbile/Kerfbyl and Margrietje Provoost on 28 Dec 1718 and 23 Mar > 1721. > > Three known transcriptions give varying combinations of these: > Olive Tree Genealogy > (http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/rdcbapt.shtml) > shows the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Jonathan". > Long Island Genealogy (http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html) > shows the 1718 child as "Johannes" (with an "h") and the 1721 child as > "Jonathan". > An 1895 book (Provost, Andrew J., *Biographical and Genealogical Notes of > the Provost Family from 1545 to 1895. New York: unknown, 1895, 159 > Pages.) *shows > the 1718 child as "Joannes" and the 1721 child as "Johannes" (rather than > "Jonathan"). > > I looked for a microfilm on the LDS website, but unless I missed it, the > only film with images of baptisms ends in 1697. To my surprise, the others > appear to be transcriptions. > > Chris