<If you have an ancestor from say 900 AD and you calculate how many theoretical ancestors you would have in that generation, it exceeds the number of people living in that year on earth!> The reason, of course, is that we have multiple lines from the same ancestors. For me, this applies even as recently as the 17th century. Besides my Dutch colonial roots, I'm also descended from the first settlers of the Massachusetts and Plymouth Bay colonies. When I look at my forebears who settled Nantucket, approximately 10 families in the beginning, some of them already related, I have multiple lines of descent from all of them. Leslie Hope

One of the things I notice after doing extensive research into my family tree is how many people in general I am "related" to even if in a distant way. My tree has some long known branches and naturally, many famous people. And it got me thinking how we are all really interrelated but do not know it or understand it. If you have an ancestor from say 900 AD and you calculate how many theoretical ancestors you would have in that generation, it exceeds the number of people living in that year on earth! Oh to be sure I think of myself as an American with Hollander ancestry but going back further, I have German and French roots that made their way to the Netherlands and I am sure going back further somewhere else. Oh by the way, George H. Bush and I share a common ancestor, an English one at that. And like the poster before me pointed out probably millions are related to him distantly but do not know it. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Schopfer Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:02 AM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] George H. W. Bush I imagine he has over 10,000 cousins named just by the name of Bush (or at least Pierce, since the chart doesn't trace to the immigrant Bush). The total number of his American cousins would be more like a million, since he would have thousands for each of many colonial ancestors by other surnames. The number of cousins is highly sensitive to fertility rates, which roughly halved over the last century. I suspect the average number of living cousins per colonial immigrant couple is currently stagnant, perhaps even declining among descendants of Dutch and English colonial immigrants. Chris On 3/2/07, Jean Bout <jeanboute@yahoo.com> wrote: > > In George W. H. Bush's 1988 campaign for presidency speech in New York > City, he said that since his ancestors arrived in America in 1600s, he had > over 10,000 cousins. He is right. (When I entered college, I saw some > students's surnames that belong to my Dutch ancestors. I got in contact with > them. Violà, they, indeed, are my distant cousins! ) What > is the original spelling of George W. H. Bush's surname? Is it Dutch? > > Jean Boutcher > JeanBout@Juno.com > JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com > > > > Doris Waggoner writes: Just goes to show everybody's related to > everybody. Does that make our > work fruitless? I didn't mean that. > Doris > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There's a thick book, published in 1916, on the Schermerhorn family. Everybody in this country with the name is descended from Jacob Janse, who came here about 1638 (I'll get corrected, I know), and therefore is a cousin. (Unless they immigrated after 1916.) And that book dropped the lines that daughtered out. So it includes my ggg grandmother Neltje Schermerhorn, b. 1781, but none of her Bastion children (or even her illegitimate Van Slyke daughter). I can't even guess how many Schermerhorn cousins I have, let alone those who dropped sylables here or there. -- "Leslie Hope" <leslie@lahope.com> wrote: Jean, Although George H. W. Bush does have some New Amsterdam ancestors, most of his ancestry is New England. He has quite a few who came on the Mayflower or who were in Leiden with the Separatists and came a bit later. His ancestry is posted online at several sites. I don't think his Bush line is Dutch, but check it out for yourself at the following link: http://www.wargs.com/political/bush.html leslie -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Bout Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:13 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] George H. W. Bush In George W. H. Bush's 1988 campaign for presidency speech in New York City, he said that since his ancestors arrived in America in 1600s, he had over 10,000 cousins. He is right. (When I entered college, I saw some students's surnames that belong to my Dutch ancestors. I got in contact with them. Violà, they, indeed, are my distant cousins! ) What is the original spelling of George W. H. Bush's surname? Is it Dutch? Jean Boutcher JeanBout@Juno.com JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com Doris Waggoner writes: Just goes to show everybody's related to everybody. Does that make our work fruitless? I didn't mean that. Doris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, of course Liz I meant that Harmen Theuniszen was working for Augustine Hermann ---- having a Harmen and a Herman in the mix was just too much for me! I don't think anything more is known about Grietje's husband's father (there, avoided the trap) and I'll check on what capacity he worked for Augustine, but memory says it was as a farmhand. Thanks! Regina Haring ----- Original Message ----- From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Augustine HERMAN and the Hussites > Thank you Regina. > > Appreciate the explanation about the Hussites. I hadn't found time yet > to dig into that. > >> Grietje Cosyn's (later Haring) first husband Harmen Theuniszen worked for >> Augustine Herman. Harmen Theuniszen only appears in the records at his >> marriage to Grietje in 1654 and in reference to working for Harmen >> Theuniszen. Grietje was widowed and able to marry Jan Pieterse Haring by >> 1662, but we don't know anything about Harmen Theuniszen's death and I >> have >> wondered if he had perhaps followed Augustine Hermann south. > > Well, could be. I will add him to my "wanted" list and see what comes > up. Maryland archives, which also include parts of what are now > Delaware and Virginia, are online, and searchable, which helps very > much in some cases. Some records of Maryland date back to the 1630's. > >> Harmen Theuniszen only appears in the records at his >> marriage to Grietje in 1654 and in reference to working for Harmen >> Theuniszen. > > Er --I think you mean to say that Harmen Theuniszen was working for > Augustine Herman, which you wrote in the precious paragraph. May I ask > in what capacity he worked for Augustine Herman? Also --if you know > who was Harmen Theuniszen's father, please let me know. I'm looking > into some business records about tobacco deals in this era and would > be interested to see if this man or his family fits into that sort of > business. > > Thank you again, I'll see if I can find anything on Harmen Theuniszen > farther south. > > Best wishes, > Liz J > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 3/1/2007 > 2:43 PM > >

I imagine he has over 10,000 cousins named just by the name of Bush (or at least Pierce, since the chart doesn't trace to the immigrant Bush). The total number of his American cousins would be more like a million, since he would have thousands for each of many colonial ancestors by other surnames. The number of cousins is highly sensitive to fertility rates, which roughly halved over the last century. I suspect the average number of living cousins per colonial immigrant couple is currently stagnant, perhaps even declining among descendants of Dutch and English colonial immigrants. Chris On 3/2/07, Jean Bout <jeanboute@yahoo.com> wrote: > > In George W. H. Bush's 1988 campaign for presidency speech in New York > City, he said that since his ancestors arrived in America in 1600s, he had > over 10,000 cousins. He is right. (When I entered college, I saw some > students's surnames that belong to my Dutch ancestors. I got in contact with > them. Violà, they, indeed, are my distant cousins! ) What > is the original spelling of George W. H. Bush's surname? Is it Dutch? > > Jean Boutcher > JeanBout@Juno.com > JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com > > > > Doris Waggoner writes: Just goes to show everybody's related to > everybody. Does that make our > work fruitless? I didn't mean that. > Doris > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just goes to show everybody's related to everybody. Does that make our work fruitless? I didn't mean that. Doris -- "W. David Samuelsen" <dsam@sampubco.com> wrote: William Reitwieser did research on Obama Barack's ancestry Obama has Dutch colonial ancestry, even had ancestors who owned slaves.... http://wargs.com/political/obama.html Among the Dutch Colonials: Vreeland, Demarest, vander Straaten, de Ruyne, Earle, Heyet, Baylis Obama is Gordon Bitner Hinckley's (current President of LDS Church) 8th cousin twice removed - Samuel Hinckley the common ancestor At the site - there are many listings showing Obama's relationship to others.... Justin Randall Timberlake, singer John H. Glenn, astronaut, US Senator Lou Chaney, Sr and Jr Johnathan Southworth Ritter, actor (better know as John Ritter, Three's a Company) Georgia O'Keefe, artist JonBenet Patricia Ramsey Birch Evans Bayh Ellen Louise Axson, wife of Woodrow Wilson George H. W. Bush George W. Bush John W. Hinckley, attempted assasin of Ronald Reagan John P. Morgan Robert C. Byrd Dick Cheney Harry S. Truman Katharine Hepburn Howard B. Dean Harold McMillan Brad Pitt Christopher Reeve John Ernest Steinbeck Juliette Gordon Low Mariel Hemingway just to name a few David Samuelsen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for this. I just sent an e-mail about Elsa Banta's book that says he married a Jans, so this is very god. Thanks again. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] VanArnhem Family + Fonda > Hi Sandra, Donna, Ethel, Richard, et al > > > I have a bit to add to what Ethel provided to the List, but don't know > what Pete or Richard may have sent to you privately. However, I do have > a question which perhaps someone can answer. Ethel, see below. > > Jan Janszen Van Aernhem married Hester Fonda 14 Oct 1696 as recorded in > the Reformed Dutch Church of Albany, where both were living at the time. > > Hester Fonda was born circa 1676 in Albany, the daughter of Douwe Jillis > Fonda and Rebecca, his wife. Douwe Jillis Fonda was baptized in > Amsterdam, Noord Holland, The Netherlands on 24 Nov 1641 at the Nieuwe > kerk, the son of Jelle Douwesz and Ester Douwes. See the article by > Robert G. Cooney, Jr., "Amsterdam Records of the Fonda Family" which > appeared in the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record in Jan > 1988 [NYG&BR 119:1-5]. > > For those interested in the FONDA European ancestry, Harry Macy, Jr. > (recently retired editor of the NYG&B Record, wrote a postscript to > Robert Cooney's article that gives this (very probable) descent from > 16th-century ancestors: > > Jacob Harmens and Bot Hennedr. > Benedictus Jacobs (died ca. 1582) and Aecht Eernstdr. > Evert Benedictus (died 1610) > Douwe Everts and Wytscke Dircxdr. > Jillis Douwes Fonda and Hester Douwes > > [Thanks to Dorothy Koenig, who provided the above descent]. > > > My question involves the following issue. It is widely reported (and/or > duplicated) that Douwe Jillis Fonda married Rebecca, the daughter of > Leendert Philips Conyn and his wife Agnieta Caspars, but I find no > evidence to support that claim. Is this information given by Mr. Cooney > in his article "Amsterdam Records of the Fonda Family" (and what is his > rationale) or is there another source that I am not aware of? > > If Rebecca, the wife of Douwe Jillis Fonda, were the daughter of > Leendert Philips Conyn, she would be styled Rebecca Leenderts or Rebecca > Conyn in at least some of the extant records, but this is not so. > Rather, she is more often referred to as Rebecca Jans, or simply Rebecca > Fonda. > > Also, Douwe Jillis Fonda and Rebecca, his wife, named no son Leendert, > nor a daughter Agniete, after the (supposed) maternal grandparents. > However, all the known children of Leendert Philipse Conyn and Agniete > Caspars (Maritje, Lysbeth, Commertje, Caspar and Philip), did indeed > name sons and daughters Leendert and Agnietje. > > A few representative examples of baptismal sponsorships follow: > > 10 May 1696 at Albany: Rebecca, of Johannes Fonda and Marritje > Lookerman. Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. > > 23 Aug 1696 at Albany: Douwe, of Jelis Fonda and Rachel Winnen. Wit.: > Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. > > 15 Aug 1697 at Albany: Sara, of Jan Jansz Van Haarlem and Hester Fonda. > Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. > > 1 Sep 1700 at Schenectady: Douwe (#75); Father: Jelles Vonda; Mother: > Rachel Winne; Sponsors: Douwe Vonda, Rebecka Jansen > > In the extant baptismal records for the children of Douwe Fonda and > Rebecca, his wife, at Albany (Isaac, 9 Mar 1684; Rebecca, 17 Mar 1686; > and Antje, 2 Feb 1690), the spouse's name is never given. > > Lastly, I see no evidence of Conyn sponsors at any of the baptisms of > the Fonda children, yet Leendert Philips (who died 1704) and Agnietje > Caspars were still sponsoring as late as (and I may have missed a few), > and his children were definitely available as well: > > 9 Jul 1693 at Albany: Rebecca, of Harme Gansevoort and Marietje > Leendertsz. Wit.: Leendert Phlipsz, Agnietje Leendertsz. > > 28 Apr 1695 at Albany: Helena, of Jan Bronk and Commertje Leendertsz. > Wit.: Leendert Phlipsz, Tomas Harmensz, Elsje Winne. > > The brewing and distilling business aside (which is the usual link for > the placement of Rebecca as the daughter of Leendert Philips Conyn), I > see no solid evidence that supports this (as either 1st or 2nd wife). > > Any insight will be greatly appreciated (or, what have I missed? :-). > > Regards, > Pam Sears > > p.s. for Sandra: > > Jan Janszen Van Aernhem was baptized 4 Jun 1671 at the New York Reformed > Dutch Church, the son of Jan Dirckszen (Van Aernhem) & Sara Teunis: > > 4 Jun 1671; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, > Mayken Laurens > > He married 14 Oct 1696 at the Reformed Dutch Church of Albany to Hester > Fonda, b circa 1676/77: > > Oct. 14, 1696. Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, young man, and Hester Fonda, young > daughter, both living here [Albany]. > > > Children of Jan Janszen Van Aernhem & Hester Fonda, all baptized at the > Albany Reformed Dutch Church: > > 1. 15 Aug 1697; Sara, of Jan Jansz Van Haarlem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: > Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. > > 2. 28 Apr 1700; Abraam, of Jan Jansse Van Aarnheym and Hester Fonda. > Wit.: Claes Fonda, Helena Fonda. > > 3. 25 Mar 1702; Rebecca, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. > Wit.: Jan Fonda, Marretje Lokermans. > > 4. 6 May 1704; Isaac, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: > Salomon and Alida Van Vechten. > > 5. 17 Nov 1706; Rachel, of John Johnson Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. > Wit.: Isaac and Rebecca Fonda. > > 6. 3 Oct 1708; Jan Dirk, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem, dec'd., and Esther > Fonda. Wit.: Jan Fonda, in place of the father; Cornelis Maasse, Anna > Fonda. > > BTW Sandra. I believe it was Jan Janszen Van Aernhem who died 1 Apr 1708 > (and not Hester Fonda) as evidenced by baptismal record #6 above. Hester > Fonda, the widow of Jan Janszen Van Aerhnhem, _may_ be the one who died > on 23 Feb 1753 and is buried in the Albany Dutch Church yard. > > Pam > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

In the book by Elsa Banta, she says he married Hester Jans. She gives no proof, just the chart. She says they were married 1641 in Amsterdam. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Brady" <brady.j@att.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] VanArnhem Family + Fonda > >My question involves the following issue. It is widely reported (and/or >>duplicated) that Douwe Jillis Fonda married Rebecca, the daughter of >>Leendert Philips Conyn and his wife Agnieta Caspars, but I find no >>evidence to support that claim. > > I've chased after the same claim with the same result. > > Jim > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

>My question involves the following issue. It is widely reported (and/or >duplicated) that Douwe Jillis Fonda married Rebecca, the daughter of >Leendert Philips Conyn and his wife Agnieta Caspars, but I find no >evidence to support that claim. I've chased after the same claim with the same result. Jim

Oh Nuts!!!

Jean, Although George H. W. Bush does have some New Amsterdam ancestors, most of his ancestry is New England. He has quite a few who came on the Mayflower or who were in Leiden with the Separatists and came a bit later. His ancestry is posted online at several sites. I don't think his Bush line is Dutch, but check it out for yourself at the following link: http://www.wargs.com/political/bush.html leslie -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Bout Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:13 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] George H. W. Bush In George W. H. Bush's 1988 campaign for presidency speech in New York City, he said that since his ancestors arrived in America in 1600s, he had over 10,000 cousins. He is right. (When I entered college, I saw some students's surnames that belong to my Dutch ancestors. I got in contact with them. Violà, they, indeed, are my distant cousins! ) What is the original spelling of George W. H. Bush's surname? Is it Dutch? Jean Boutcher JeanBout@Juno.com JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com Doris Waggoner writes: Just goes to show everybody's related to everybody. Does that make our work fruitless? I didn't mean that. Doris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Ethel-- Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis had eight children who show in the New Amsterdam DRC records. However, if you'll check the witnesses at later Van Arnam and Eckerson baptisms you'll see that they probably had a daughter, Helena, for whom there are no baptismal records. (Or marriage, although she apparently married someone named Thomas Huick/Huyg whom I've been unable to identify.) There's a gap between Dirckje and Magdalena into which she might fit. Or she might have been born after the twins Isaac and Jacob (as might one or two more children.) Based on very scanty evidence, it's possible Jan Dircks lived well past the last record I can find for him in 1682 in Harlem. I'm pretty sure Sara Theunis lived at least until 1716 although the identification depends upon when her son Abraham Van Arnam died. ( I believe about 1731 but I haven't been able to tell for certain yet.) On the other hand, perhaps Helena IS daughter Magdalena, that is to say that perhaps her name was actually Magdalena Helena (Van Arnhem). Based (again) on scanty evidence, I think there's a good chance that, despite the origins listed at their marriage, either Jan Dircks or Sara Theunis or even both were not Dutch and might have given one or more children multiple names as in French and German custom. In any case, I can find no subsequent record of their daughter Magdalena and her name is not a "Van Arnam name" in later generations. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: <ETHELKK@aol.com> To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] VanArnhem Family > > Hi Sandra, > > Welcome to the Dutch Colonies list. You wrote <I'm a newbie to this list. > I'm trying to find information on my ancestor, Jan Dirksz VanArnhem, who was > born 1640 in Arnhem, Gelderland, the Netherlands. According to the LDS > Ancestral File, he was married to Sarah Teunis 28 June 1664. They had eight > children, all born in the Netherlands> > > Your ancestors Jan Dirckszen Van Aernum and Sara Theunis were married in > this country. They also had eight children born and baptized in this country. > Their marriage banns on 28 June 1664 tells us where they were van/from. "Jan > Dirckszen Van Aernhem, Soldaet, en Sara Theuniszen, j.d. Van Rotterdam." > He is a soldier from Arnhem and she is from Rotterdam. Their marriage banns > are entered in the New Amsterdam Dutch Church which became the New York Dutch > Church after the English takeover on 8 Sept 1664. > > They had the following children all baptized in the New York DRCh. > Dirckje, baptized 31 Dec 1664; Magdalena baptized 18 Aug 1669; Jan, > baptized 4 Jun 1671; > Abraham baptized 9 Apr 1673; Marie baptized 14 Jul 1675; Catharina > baptized 26 Sep 1677; > and twins Isaac and Jacob baptized 3 Apr 1680. > > I am descended from their daughter Maria who married Jan Janszen Eckerson > > Regards, > Ethel Kay Konight > > ========================================== > In a message dated 3/1/2007 sandra_vanorman@msn.com writes: > > Hello, > I'm a newbie to this list. I'm trying to find information on my ancestor, > Jan Dirksz VanArnhem, who was born 1640 in Arnhem, Gelderland, the Netherlands. > According to the LDS Ancestral File, he was married to Sarah Teunis 28 June > 1664. They had eight children, all born in the Netherlands. > > Now that I've "jumped the pond" can anyone tell me where I might find birth > and marriage records in the Netherlands for this family? > Jan's descendants settled in New Amsterdam New York, and also Vermont, where > five VanArnhems were members of Ethan Allen's Green Mountain Boys. They were > from Pownal, Bennington co. Vermont. > > Any help on this family would be very much appreciated. > > Sandra VanOrman > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sandra, Donna, Ethel, Richard, et al I have a bit to add to what Ethel provided to the List, but don't know what Pete or Richard may have sent to you privately. However, I do have a question which perhaps someone can answer. Ethel, see below. Jan Janszen Van Aernhem married Hester Fonda 14 Oct 1696 as recorded in the Reformed Dutch Church of Albany, where both were living at the time. Hester Fonda was born circa 1676 in Albany, the daughter of Douwe Jillis Fonda and Rebecca, his wife. Douwe Jillis Fonda was baptized in Amsterdam, Noord Holland, The Netherlands on 24 Nov 1641 at the Nieuwe kerk, the son of Jelle Douwesz and Ester Douwes. See the article by Robert G. Cooney, Jr., "Amsterdam Records of the Fonda Family" which appeared in the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record in Jan 1988 [NYG&BR 119:1-5]. For those interested in the FONDA European ancestry, Harry Macy, Jr. (recently retired editor of the NYG&B Record, wrote a postscript to Robert Cooney's article that gives this (very probable) descent from 16th-century ancestors: Jacob Harmens and Bot Hennedr. Benedictus Jacobs (died ca. 1582) and Aecht Eernstdr. Evert Benedictus (died 1610) Douwe Everts and Wytscke Dircxdr. Jillis Douwes Fonda and Hester Douwes [Thanks to Dorothy Koenig, who provided the above descent]. My question involves the following issue. It is widely reported (and/or duplicated) that Douwe Jillis Fonda married Rebecca, the daughter of Leendert Philips Conyn and his wife Agnieta Caspars, but I find no evidence to support that claim. Is this information given by Mr. Cooney in his article "Amsterdam Records of the Fonda Family" (and what is his rationale) or is there another source that I am not aware of? If Rebecca, the wife of Douwe Jillis Fonda, were the daughter of Leendert Philips Conyn, she would be styled Rebecca Leenderts or Rebecca Conyn in at least some of the extant records, but this is not so. Rather, she is more often referred to as Rebecca Jans, or simply Rebecca Fonda. Also, Douwe Jillis Fonda and Rebecca, his wife, named no son Leendert, nor a daughter Agniete, after the (supposed) maternal grandparents. However, all the known children of Leendert Philipse Conyn and Agniete Caspars (Maritje, Lysbeth, Commertje, Caspar and Philip), did indeed name sons and daughters Leendert and Agnietje. A few representative examples of baptismal sponsorships follow: 10 May 1696 at Albany: Rebecca, of Johannes Fonda and Marritje Lookerman. Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. 23 Aug 1696 at Albany: Douwe, of Jelis Fonda and Rachel Winnen. Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. 15 Aug 1697 at Albany: Sara, of Jan Jansz Van Haarlem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. 1 Sep 1700 at Schenectady: Douwe (#75); Father: Jelles Vonda; Mother: Rachel Winne; Sponsors: Douwe Vonda, Rebecka Jansen In the extant baptismal records for the children of Douwe Fonda and Rebecca, his wife, at Albany (Isaac, 9 Mar 1684; Rebecca, 17 Mar 1686; and Antje, 2 Feb 1690), the spouse's name is never given. Lastly, I see no evidence of Conyn sponsors at any of the baptisms of the Fonda children, yet Leendert Philips (who died 1704) and Agnietje Caspars were still sponsoring as late as (and I may have missed a few), and his children were definitely available as well: 9 Jul 1693 at Albany: Rebecca, of Harme Gansevoort and Marietje Leendertsz. Wit.: Leendert Phlipsz, Agnietje Leendertsz. 28 Apr 1695 at Albany: Helena, of Jan Bronk and Commertje Leendertsz. Wit.: Leendert Phlipsz, Tomas Harmensz, Elsje Winne. The brewing and distilling business aside (which is the usual link for the placement of Rebecca as the daughter of Leendert Philips Conyn), I see no solid evidence that supports this (as either 1st or 2nd wife). Any insight will be greatly appreciated (or, what have I missed? :-). Regards, Pam Sears p.s. for Sandra: Jan Janszen Van Aernhem was baptized 4 Jun 1671 at the New York Reformed Dutch Church, the son of Jan Dirckszen (Van Aernhem) & Sara Teunis: 4 Jun 1671; Jan Dircxzen Van Aernhem, Sara; Jan; Jan Laurenszen Duyts, Mayken Laurens He married 14 Oct 1696 at the Reformed Dutch Church of Albany to Hester Fonda, b circa 1676/77: Oct. 14, 1696. Jan Jansz Van Aarnem, young man, and Hester Fonda, young daughter, both living here [Albany]. Children of Jan Janszen Van Aernhem & Hester Fonda, all baptized at the Albany Reformed Dutch Church: 1. 15 Aug 1697; Sara, of Jan Jansz Van Haarlem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Douwe Fonda, Rebecca Fonda. 2. 28 Apr 1700; Abraam, of Jan Jansse Van Aarnheym and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Claes Fonda, Helena Fonda. 3. 25 Mar 1702; Rebecca, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Jan Fonda, Marretje Lokermans. 4. 6 May 1704; Isaac, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Salomon and Alida Van Vechten. 5. 17 Nov 1706; Rachel, of John Johnson Van Aarnhem and Hester Fonda. Wit.: Isaac and Rebecca Fonda. 6. 3 Oct 1708; Jan Dirk, of Jan Janse Van Aarnhem, dec'd., and Esther Fonda. Wit.: Jan Fonda, in place of the father; Cornelis Maasse, Anna Fonda. BTW Sandra. I believe it was Jan Janszen Van Aernhem who died 1 Apr 1708 (and not Hester Fonda) as evidenced by baptismal record #6 above. Hester Fonda, the widow of Jan Janszen Van Aerhnhem, _may_ be the one who died on 23 Feb 1753 and is buried in the Albany Dutch Church yard. Pam

Hi Pete, From: "j. gonigam" <gonigam@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] VanArnhem Family > Dear Ethel-- > > Jan Dircks and Sara Theunis had eight children who show in the New Amsterdam > DRC records. However, if you'll check the witnesses at later Van Arnam and > Eckerson baptisms you'll see that they probably had a daughter, > Helena, for whom there are no baptismal records. (Or marriage, although > she apparently married someone named Thomas Huick/Huyg whom I've > been unable to identify.) snip > On the other hand, perhaps Helena IS daughter Magdalena, that is to say that > perhaps her name was actually Magdalena Helena (Van Arnhem). Based (again) > on scanty evidence, I think there's a good chance that, despite the origins > listed at their marriage, either Jan Dircks or Sara Theunis or even both > were not Dutch and might have given one or more children multiple names > as in French and German custom. In any case, I can find no subsequent > record of their daughter Magdalena and her name is not a "Van Arnam name" > in later generations. What probably happened was that the parents told the minister the name of the child was Leentje. And the minister, instead of writing this down, guessed (wrongly) as to her full name and put down Magdalena when it should have been Helena. Eg. Magdalena Hans, the wife of Hendrick Janszen Spier, is mostly shown as some form of Magdalena or Magdalentje. But at the bp. of one of her children she is shown as Helena. Also, see "New Netherland Naming Systems and Customs" by Kenn Stryker-Rodda in NYGBR 126:35-45 at p. 37. "... the real trouble coming when people tried to work backward to the original name. Many a girl baptized as Magdalena but called Lena was married as Elenora and appeared in baptismal records of her children as Helena." Sometimes it is hard to tell which is the correct full name. It sounds like in your case, it is Helena. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Ditto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louanne Van Pelt" <lounfritz@msn.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com>; "Dutch-Colonies" <Dutch-Colonies-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Obama Barack's Dutch ancestry Oh Nuts!!! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In George W. H. Bush's 1988 campaign for presidency speech in New York City, he said that since his ancestors arrived in America in 1600s, he had over 10,000 cousins. He is right. (When I entered college, I saw some students's surnames that belong to my Dutch ancestors. I got in contact with them. Violà, they, indeed, are my distant cousins! ) What is the original spelling of George W. H. Bush's surname? Is it Dutch? Jean Boutcher JeanBout@Juno.com JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com Doris Waggoner writes: Just goes to show everybody's related to everybody. Does that make our work fruitless? I didn't mean that. Doris

Sorry, resending my last message. Hi Sandra, You wrote <I have a Hester Douwse Fonda listed as a wife for Jan Janse VanArnhem. She was born 1677 in Albany, New York and died 1 April 1708 in NY. Was she the second wife of Jan? I have their marriage date as 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Jans was also married to Sarah Theunis 28 June 1664.> Jan Jansz Van Aernhem, Bp: 4 June 1671, son of Jan Dirksz VanArnhem and Sara Theunis, married Hester Fonda 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Albany DRCh. [HSYB 1904:28] Please give a reference for the born and death dates for Hester Fonda. Ethel =============================================== In a message dated 3/2/2007 sandra_vanorman@msn.com writes: Hello! Thanks to all for the replies to my query about Jan Dirksz VanArnhem. It is very much appreciated. I have a Hester Douwse Fonda listed as a wife for Jan Janse VanArnhem. She was born 1677 in Albany, New York and died 1 April 1708 in NY. Was she the second wife of Jan? I have their marriage date as 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Jans was also married to Sarah Theunis 28 June 1664. Thanks Ethel, for the dates on the children of Jan Dirkzen and Sara Theunis. This is wonderful information! Regards, Sandra VanOrman <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Sandra, You wrote <I have a Hester Douwse Fonda listed as a wife for Jan Janse VanArnhem. She was born 1677 in Albany, New York and died 1 April 1708 in NY. Was she the second wife of Jan? I have their marriage date as 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Jans was also married to Sarah Theunis 28 June 1664.> Jan Jansz Van Aernhem, Bp: 4 June 1671, son of Jan Dirksz VanArnhem and Sara Theunis, married Hester Fonda 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Albany DRCh. [HSYB 1904:28] Please give a reference for the born and death dates for Hester Fonda. Ethel =============================================== In a message dated 3/2/2007 sandra_vanorman@msn.com writes: Hello! Thanks to all for the replies to my query about Jan Dirksz VanArnhem. It is very much appreciated. I have a Hester Douwse Fonda listed as a wife for Jan Janse VanArnhem. She was born 1677 in Albany, New York and died 1 April 1708 in NY. Was she the second wife of Jan? I have their marriage date as 14 Oct. 1696 in Albany. Jans was also married to Sarah Theunis 28 June 1664. Thanks Ethel, for the dates on the children of Jan Dirkzen and Sara Theunis. This is wonderful information! Regards, Sandra VanOrman ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

I am curious about the background of Anna Leisler HERMAN. Is anything more known about her? I am a descendant of Jacob LEISLER, the ill-fated Acting Governor of the NY Colony during the Glorious Revolution. I have never seen mention of Anna Leisler HERMAN before. Bob Protzmann ----- Original Message ----- From: E Johnson Date: Thursday, March 1, 2007 11:22 pm Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anna HERMAN To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Thanks very much for checking your resources, Howard. > > > The earliest generations of the Colonial HACK family of Eastern Shore > Virginia and Maryland have a series of sons called George > Nicholas and > they also have many wives called Ann. > > One of my biggest questions lately is whether or not there was a > George Nicholas HACK, son of the Joris HACK who was baptized in > Cologne in > 1620, and his wife Ann VERLET, sister of Jannetje VERLET, > Augustine HERMAN's wife. Their son, George Nicholas, probably born > around 1646, is said to have married "Anna Leisler HERMAN." But > nobody seems to have documentation on this marriage and as you > (Howard) noticed, there's not much if anything around on the Anna > HERMAN who is supposed to be the sister of Augustine. > > Joris HACK and Anna Verlet also had son Peter who had many > descendents. But for now the focus is on son george Nicholas and his > wife or wives. > > The possibility have been raised that two generations of men called > "George Nicolas > HACK could have been made of one --George N #1 married "Anna Leisler > HERMAN"; George N #2 married Ann Wright. > > Info on these two generations of Joris HACK descendents seems to have > come from a monument on a grave: > > The only place anyone seems to cite as a source for this supposed > marriage to "Anna Leisler HERMAN" is in a book which describes a > memorial obelisk in Fairview Cemetery in Accomack County VA, > near the > HACK home. This obelisk was erected by descendents, possibly in place > of or above a > group of family tombstones. Ralph T. Whitelaw in Vol. II of Virginia's > Eastern Shore, pps. 658-659 makes comments and gives the text of > inscriptions on the faces of this monument. He has no sources > but is > simply reporting what is engraved in the stone. He says "Some years > ago, all of the tombstones in the family graveyard were buried, a > granite coping set around the plot, and a shaft raised in > the center. Upon the shaft is inscribed: > > WEST FACE > > (Hack Coat of Arms) > > In Memory of > Dr. Joris Hack, baptized > in Cologne, Germany, March > 20, 1620, died in Virginia, 1665; > Married Anna Varlett > daughter of Casper and > Judith Varlett > Their son, Dr. George > Nicholas Hack, born in > Cologne, Germany, died in > Accomac County, Virginia; > Married Anne Leisler > Herman, born in Amsterdam, > Holland, sister of > Augustine Herman of > Bohemian Manor, > Cecil County, Maryland, > Lieutenant Colonel George > Nicholas Hack, died 1705. > and Ann, his wife, daughter of > Richard Wright and Ann. > his wife, daughter of Colonel John. > Mottrom of Northern > Neck, Virginia." > > The other sides of the shaft have inscriptions about descendents > of Joris HACK. > > ............................. > In USGenweb archives for Accomack County, there is an entry > entitled,"Survey Report, Hacks burying ground. Mason's property: > 1938." The report gives the location of this burial ground, then gives > descriptions or inscriptions of the monuments of those buried there. > The original document was transcribed by Joan Renfrow and posted on > USGenWeb Archives for Accomack Co. at > http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/va/accomack/cemeteries/hack03.txt > > The original survey of this site can be found at the Library of > Virginia. > The long inscription is the last entry in a section of the > report is said > to be 'historical background' without stating from where the > 'background' came. At the bottom of the page is also stated that > information was taken from the grave markers. But from the > report it > is unclear whether the person visiting the site (in 1938) and > making the report > actually read this from a marker then in existence, or whether the > informant for the 'background' was also the source of the marker > reading. > > The inscription on this ends the same as above described, but differs > in that in the 1938 description/transcription, above or maybe on the > carved coat of arms there is a motto "Avide et Constanter" and a > name/date combination: "Joris Hack 1646" > > There is an image online of this monument. It's impossible to tell > from the image if the motto and the words, "Joris Hack 1646" are on > the crest, and simply not reported in the second descriptiion of this > monument. > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/o/d/Bryan-S- > Godfrey/PHOTO/0267photo.html > It's also unclear to me if the inscription described in 1938 was on > one of a set of tombstones that were "buried" at the site of the more > recent monument or > if the 1938 report describes the new monument. > > In the absence of evidence of "Anne Leisler Herman's" existence, I > wonder if a source of confusion may have been the 1663 and 1666 > petitions for naturalization of Augustine Herman and his wife and > children, with Anna and Joris/George Hack and their children. In those > documents, transcripts of which are in Maryland State Archives, > Augustine HERMAN and Joris (George) HACK are described as > brothers-in-law. In MSA Volume 1, Page 462 "Proceedings and Acts of > the General Assembly January 1637/8-September 1664" is a record > of a > petition of > Augustine Herman for an "Act of Naturalizacon for himselfe, Children > and his brother in Lawe George Hack." > > "On Thursday Sept 17th, 1663, it was ordered that "an Acte of > Naturalizacon be prepared for Augustine Herman, and his Children and > his brother in Lawe George Hack and his wife and Children."" > > There are a couple of places this appears in MSA, this is the first. > > Since Anna VERLET, wife of Joris/George HACK, and Jannetje VERLET, > wife of Augustine HERMAN, were almost certainly sisters > (daughters of > Caspar Verlet and Judith Tentenier), these two men were > brothers-in-law whether or not there was ever any HACK marriage to > Anna HERMAN. But perhaps because of this naturalization petition, > somehow the HERMAN surname got crunched onto the Ann (Wright) who > married George Nicolas HACK, who was probably Joris' and Anna VERLET's > son. > > > He had a daughter, Anna Margareta bp. 10 Mar 1658 in New Amsterdam. > Riker says she and her husband removed to Maryland in 1703. Could > this be the Anna you want? > > Don't think so. Augustine Herman's daughter Anna Margaretha supposedly > married Henry Ward and Matthias Vanderheyden. > > > > Since the above sources say Augustine was born in Prague, > that is where you should look for baptisms of any alleged siblings. > > Yep. The family MYTH (I have no documentation, just the story for > those interested): > The parents of Augustine Herman and Anna: The father, Ephraim (aka > Abraham), Merchant and Councilman of Prague, had married Beatrice > Redel. He is said to have been a Hussite (no clue what that > is) and > in 1618 had been one of the signers of a Protestant document, > addressed to Emperor Maximillian. For signing this, he was banished > from Prague. Thought to have died soon after in one of the > battles of > the Thirty Year's War. His wife (or widow) fled to Amsterdam > with Anna > and Augustine. > > Augustine Herman was educated in Holland. Not myth --he first worked > for the merchant firm, Gabry of Amsterdam. But his sister, if > the ever > came to the colonies, seems to have been invisible. I also wonder > where her supposed middle name "Leisler" of Anna Herman came from. > "Leisler" comes in around 1700 in NY history, and this name > seems out > of place in the name of someone born in Euro in the 1600-1620 range. > > > > Be sure to search using Heermans, etc. as well. > > Yep. That and more. > > > I have a bit more info on the earlier Hacks if anyone needs... have > nice obscure bit on Joris' youngest brother Severijn who was > killed by > Indians in 1661. Have lineup of two Hack families bapt in > Amsterdam in > the 1616 to 1630's. Seems only Joris and Severijn emigrated. Have > notes on a few land records, etc. > Am just at the beginning at this point. If anyone can contribute > anything, please do. > > > Thank you again, Howard. Appreciate it very much. > > Best to all, > Liz J > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

William Reitwieser did research on Obama Barack's ancestry Obama has Dutch colonial ancestry, even had ancestors who owned slaves.... http://wargs.com/political/obama.html Among the Dutch Colonials: Vreeland, Demarest, vander Straaten, de Ruyne, Earle, Heyet, Baylis Obama is Gordon Bitner Hinckley's (current President of LDS Church) 8th cousin twice removed - Samuel Hinckley the common ancestor At the site - there are many listings showing Obama's relationship to others.... Justin Randall Timberlake, singer John H. Glenn, astronaut, US Senator Lou Chaney, Sr and Jr Johnathan Southworth Ritter, actor (better know as John Ritter, Three's a Company) Georgia O'Keefe, artist JonBenet Patricia Ramsey Birch Evans Bayh Ellen Louise Axson, wife of Woodrow Wilson George H. W. Bush George W. Bush John W. Hinckley, attempted assasin of Ronald Reagan John P. Morgan Robert C. Byrd Dick Cheney Harry S. Truman Katharine Hepburn Howard B. Dean Harold McMillan Brad Pitt Christopher Reeve John Ernest Steinbeck Juliette Gordon Low Mariel Hemingway just to name a few David Samuelsen