Dedication is normally used in the sense of dedicating the child and his or her life to Christ. In the usual sense, it is not a ceremony in itself but instead a reason and purpose attached to the ceremony. The first usage of which I am aware if the word "Christening" was associated with the Methodist Church. Barbara & George Grenier <grenier@earthlink.net> wrote: I have heard the term, baby dedication. I always thought it was probably in churches that didn't baptize babies. Barbara At 11:28 PM 3/9/07, you wrote: >I'm Catholic also and have 3 children and 6 grandchildren and it is >baptized. I have never seen anything where Catholic babies/children >are christened. >I have seen protestants have Christening for young children and then they >are baptized at the age of knowledge. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Bob, I was more or less referring to a less recent movement out of the faith rather than the late movement. I am a Presbyterian and I am not in the liberal camp. What I am referring to is the Methodist movement in America which seems to begin the sapping of numbers, to the later surge of Catholicism which sapped numbers but maybe not directly but generationally. The late movements are well documented and I can share in the feelings of traditional Presbyterians who do not want to change the traditions that have been taught over the centuries. The fact that adherents to the more liberal view continue to call themselves Presbyterians has caused many outside the Presbyterian faith to think and popularly feel ALL Presbyterians think this and believe this and in my opinion, that has caused many to not want to join. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of NYHuguenot@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:32 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism, Reform and Lutheran All, Baptism and the Lord's Supper are sacraments in the Reformed churches. The word itself has a relation to mystery. Since the person participating in these ceremonies is joined to Christ through His Spirit, a process we do not understand yet is a reality. Another connection is to an oath. In Baptism, the child in a Reformed church is given a sign visible to all present that it is a covenant child. It is customary for the congregation to vow to do all that is necessary to support the child toward a profession of faith in Christ. The same with the Lord's Supper. In eating and drinking the elements the partaker is joined to Christ through the Spirit. Reformed do not believe in a physical presence in the elements, the argument being that as a human he can only occupy one place in time and space. As well, He sits at the right hand of the Father and in Acts the apostles are told that He will return the same way he left, in a cloud and will only be on earth at that time. I am sorry if this bored some but there seem to be a few ideas floating around the letters that are speculative and i thought I would explain. Edward Otte, There is a shrinking of Presbyterian churches but only in one denomination, the PCUSA which has lost 2 million members since 1967 when it abandoned the Westminster Confession Of Faith in favor of a collection of Confessions, many of which contradict each other. The extreme liberal and social liberalism in it has caused many to leave, most notably into the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, formed in the 1930s and the Presbyterian Church in America which left in 1973. The number of Presbyterians remains about the same. The PCA started in 1973 with 40, 000 members and no property and today numbers about 350,000 souls. Both of these denominations are traditionalist in that they hold to the doctrines of the Reformed faith and do not ordain women and are High Calvinist. The shrinkage is present in all the mainline churches but movement is to the conservative and traditional churches. There is also a large movement to the nondenominational churches that are modeled after Willowcreek in Illinois. There is an even larger movement into Charismatic and Pentecostal church as well. For an explanation of why people are joining these last three types you try a book by Nayhan O Hatch, The Democratization Of American Christianity. It shows that churches in the period immediately after the American Revolution under the influence of Kantian rejection of old tutors in favor of being one's own tutor has led to a theological smorgasbord based on one's own concepts and total rejection of the past. Bob <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not at all boring and exactly what I was trying to say briefly about the Roman Catholic Church and christening vs. baptism. Thank you! NYHuguenot@aol.com wrote: All, Baptism and the Lord's Supper are sacraments in the Reformed churches. The word itself has a relation to mystery. Since the person participating in these ceremonies is joined to Christ through His Spirit, a process we do not understand yet is a reality. Another connection is to an oath. In Baptism, the child in a Reformed church is given a sign visible to all present that it is a covenant child. It is customary for the congregation to vow to do all that is necessary to support the child toward a profession of faith in Christ. The same with the Lord's Supper. In eating and drinking the elements the partaker is joined to Christ through the Spirit. Reformed do not believe in a physical presence in the elements, the argument being that as a human he can only occupy one place in time and space. As well, He sits at the right hand of the Father and in Acts the apostles are told that He will return the same way he left, in a cloud and will only be on earth at that time. I am sorry if this bored some but there seem to be a few ideas floating around the letters that are speculative and i thought I would explain. Edward Otte, There is a shrinking of Presbyterian churches but only in one denomination, the PCUSA which has lost 2 million members since 1967 when it abandoned the Westminster Confession Of Faith in favor of a collection of Confessions, many of which contradict each other. The extreme liberal and social liberalism in it has caused many to leave, most notably into the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, formed in the 1930s and the Presbyterian Church in America which left in 1973. The number of Presbyterians remains about the same. The PCA started in 1973 with 40, 000 members and no property and today numbers about 350,000 souls. Both of these denominations are traditionalist in that they hold to the doctrines of the Reformed faith and do not ordain women and are High Calvinist. The shrinkage is present in all the mainline churches but movement is to the conservative and traditional churches. There is also a large movement to the nondenominational churches that are modeled after Willowcreek in Illinois. There is an even larger movement into Charismatic and Pentecostal church as well. For an explanation of why people are joining these last three types you try a book by Nayhan O Hatch, The Democratization Of American Christianity. It shows that churches in the period immediately after the American Revolution under the influence of Kantian rejection of old tutors in favor of being one's own tutor has led to a theological smorgasbord based on one's own concepts and total rejection of the past. Bob ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have heard the term, baby dedication. I always thought it was probably in churches that didn't baptize babies. Barbara At 11:28 PM 3/9/07, you wrote: >I'm Catholic also and have 3 children and 6 grandchildren and it is >baptized. I have never seen anything where Catholic babies/children >are christened. >I have seen protestants have Christening for young children and then they >are baptized at the age of knowledge.

Hi Ray and others, I ran into this when I was compiling a genealogy in which the forebearers were DRC and there was a choice in the program I was using of christening or baptism. I agree that technically the words are the same but usage within a religious group has changes this somewhat. Christening is never used in reference to the baptismal ceremony in some churches and baptism is not used in others specifically when the ceremony involves an infant. It is then called Christening and sometimes Sprinkling with baptism a ceremony to occur at an age at which the child has some comprehension of the meaning. In the last e-mail, I was addressing only the Roman Catholic Church practice about which the writer said her RC grandchildren were christened. In the RC doctrine in the past, the concept of "Original Sin" and the birth of a child with this "stigma" was paramount. In the past, the belief and doctrine were that the unbaptised child would have been condemned to "Purgatory" and unable to enter the "Kingdom of Heaven" because of the "stain of original sin" with which he or she was born. The usage in the Roman Catholic Church was always baptism. This belief has changed and Purgatory abolished. However, Christening was associated with Protestant groups. Even though the dictionary gives them as synonyms, I don't believe that religious groups so view the terminology. I have no doubt of what was said by the lady discussing her grandchildren and their Catholic Christening. However, this usage suggests a mixed marriage and background where the family itself has exchanged the words. The other words, Sponsor and Witness, are viewed by some as synonymous but they serve a very different purpose. I would suggest that anyone needing the correct terminology for any specific religious group, adhere to the terminology used in the records of that group. In the DRC records, I have seen this ceremony referred to only as Baptism and what many call sponsors, only as witnesses. Ray C <raycapp@optonline.net> wrote: Sorry, but Christening and Baptizing are the same rite. I believe the verb christen means to make a person a part of Christendom. The New Collegiate dictionary presents Baptize as the first meaning of Christen. Ray C -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara de Mare Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:24 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch Children are baptized; ships are christened. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Helen Graves To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated "chr. Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology and abbreviation to use? I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the baptism and the church where baptized. Helen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For many of the Protestant sects baptism is sufficient as long as the formulation of doing so in the "Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." But of interesting note (from my New Jersey ancestors) many were baptized twice or more in the Presbyterian faith. My example is the church in Whippany to the church in Morristown. The Morristown minister required second baptisms, possibly because no documentation was given by the first church. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara de Mare Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:23 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism, Reform and Lutheran Baptism is a sacrament in the Lutheran church, but I don't think it is in the Reformed. That could be the reason for noting it, although Lutherans believe one Baptism is sufficient no matter who did it. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to do it other than a pastor in case of emergency. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Elsie H. Wilson <ehwilson@charter.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 2:13:20 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism, Reform and Lutheran Part of my research has been into a colony of French Huguenots who were granted by the MarkGraff Friedrich of Karlshure-Palmbach, in Baden German, in 1700, the right to establish a village on his land. This village was named for the MarkGraff, as Friedrichstahl and is an interesting community in Germany even today. The first church records of Friedrichstahl are in French and gradually over the years shifted to a mixture of French and German and now German. However, the traditions of the French in the community have remained strong. Within a few years of its founding, some Germans became part of the community. Today the village is a mixture of French and German ancestry. In my own case, my ancestor, Johannes Heinrich Fussler, came from Boeblingen to Friedrichstahl about 1728 as a carpenter. He married into a French family and down through the years, records for his family along with other's with German Lutheran backgrounds have been noted in the church records, as well as the French family lines. They all lived together, went to the same schools, intermarried, and worshiped as members of the same church, but especially the baptism records noted whether the parents were "Reformed" or "Evangelical". I do not know if the ceremony was any different, but they find it important to note the difference: all my Fussler ancestors were noted as Evangelical and my Gorenflo, La Croix etc. ancestors were noted as Reformed. Traditions that seemed unimportant to us today, were big items in earlier times. Also, there are notations in the records of when a child was baptized "in the home", because of weakness of the child. During the 1800's, groups from this village came to America and settled in Erie, PA, in Marion, Ohio, in Lehigh Co. PA and several other localities. Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm Catholic also and have 3 children and 6 grandchildren and it is baptized. I have never seen anything where Catholic babies/children are christened. I have seen protestants have Christening for young children and then they are baptized at the age of knowledge. <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

I was baptised a Catholic and went 12 years to a Catholic school. Not a practising Catholic now, maybe if I had been christened it would be different. The Catholic comes through my French-Canadian line and believe me the church records all start out "I baptise..." (in French though). Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Graves" <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Christening - only ships? > Gee, Barbara, I don't know about that. I have 5 Catholic grandchildren. > As > infants they were "christened" in the Catholic church... and they wore > "christening" dresses and white "christening" suits. Lots of discussion > and > shopping for "christening" outfits. It was a Big Deal Lucille. > > Helen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara de Mare" <barbarademare@yahoo.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > > >> Children are baptized; ships are christened. >> >> Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. >> Historian, genealogist and attorney >> 155 Polifly Road >> Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 >> (201) 567-9440 office >> BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) >> http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Helen Graves <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM >> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch >> >> I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated >> "chr. >> Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >> >>>From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for >> listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? >> >> "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology >> and >> abbreviation to use? >> >> I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the >> baptism and the church where baptized. >> >> Helen >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

All, Baptism and the Lord's Supper are sacraments in the Reformed churches. The word itself has a relation to mystery. Since the person participating in these ceremonies is joined to Christ through His Spirit, a process we do not understand yet is a reality. Another connection is to an oath. In Baptism, the child in a Reformed church is given a sign visible to all present that it is a covenant child. It is customary for the congregation to vow to do all that is necessary to support the child toward a profession of faith in Christ. The same with the Lord's Supper. In eating and drinking the elements the partaker is joined to Christ through the Spirit. Reformed do not believe in a physical presence in the elements, the argument being that as a human he can only occupy one place in time and space. As well, He sits at the right hand of the Father and in Acts the apostles are told that He will return the same way he left, in a cloud and will only be on earth at that time. I am sorry if this bored some but there seem to be a few ideas floating around the letters that are speculative and i thought I would explain. Edward Otte, There is a shrinking of Presbyterian churches but only in one denomination, the PCUSA which has lost 2 million members since 1967 when it abandoned the Westminster Confession Of Faith in favor of a collection of Confessions, many of which contradict each other. The extreme liberal and social liberalism in it has caused many to leave, most notably into the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, formed in the 1930s and the Presbyterian Church in America which left in 1973. The number of Presbyterians remains about the same. The PCA started in 1973 with 40, 000 members and no property and today numbers about 350,000 souls. Both of these denominations are traditionalist in that they hold to the doctrines of the Reformed faith and do not ordain women and are High Calvinist. The shrinkage is present in all the mainline churches but movement is to the conservative and traditional churches. There is also a large movement to the nondenominational churches that are modeled after Willowcreek in Illinois. There is an even larger movement into Charismatic and Pentecostal church as well. For an explanation of why people are joining these last three types you try a book by Nayhan O Hatch, The Democratization Of American Christianity. It shows that churches in the period immediately after the American Revolution under the influence of Kantian rejection of old tutors in favor of being one's own tutor has led to a theological smorgasbord based on one's own concepts and total rejection of the past. Bob <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Sorry, but Christening and Baptizing are the same rite. I believe the verb christen means to make a person a part of Christendom. The New Collegiate dictionary presents Baptize as the first meaning of Christen. Ray C -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara de Mare Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:24 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch Children are baptized; ships are christened. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Helen Graves <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated "chr. Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology and abbreviation to use? I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the baptism and the church where baptized. Helen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Helen Graves said: Gee, Barbara, I don't know about that. I have 5 Catholic grandchildren. As infants they were "christened" in the Catholic church... and they wore "christening" dresses and white "christening" suits. Lots of discussion and shopping for "christening" outfits. It was a Big Deal Lucille. - - - - That's OK, as long as they didn't smash bottles over their little heads. Edie in Maine

Do you remember when the Presbyterians took up for the black troublemaker in the 70's. I cannot remember here name right now, but that is when the Presbyterian Church started falling apart. Angela Davis, that is her name. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Dutch Reformed & Presbyterian > The main difference between the two sects seems to me to be in the > leadership roles and church government because theologically they are > virtually one. What I found interesting is that many in the > Congregationalist churches (Puritan) came over to the Presbyterian > churches > in many places and soon America grew to be a "Presbyterian" place for > quite > some time but now Presbyterianism in America seems to be on the wan. > > Edward Otte > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > NYHuguenot@aol.com > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:43 AM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Dutch Reformed & Presbyterian > > For those unaware of what the Reformed church is: It includes the > Reformed > churches of the Netherlands, Switzerland, France, Germany and Hungary. > The > Reformed churches of the British Isles are called Presbyterian since they > preferred to call themselves after the polity which has Teaching and > Ruling > Elders > all of whom have parity with all Reformed Elders. > > There is also a large Reformed presence in the Ukraine which is > undergoing > a > growth mode. It's central church in Kiev is being restored after much > hard > use by the Communists. A number of Reformed denominations are setting up > seminaries for the training of pastors. There is also a small movement > working in > Poland to build up the Reformed church there after it's decimation during > the > Counter-reformation. > > > Bob > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Hi all: I just looked in the "Websters New World Dictionary" it states under 'christen' 1. to take into Christian church by baptism, baptize. 2. to give a name to, esp. at baptism. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX Elizabeth Johnson <elizajohn@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I believe that if you check with your local Catholic Church, you will find that it is baptism not christening. Helen Graves wrote: Gee, Barbara, I don't know about that. I have 5 Catholic grandchildren. As infants they were "christened" in the Catholic church... and they wore "christening" dresses and white "christening" suits. Lots of discussion and shopping for "christening" outfits. It was a Big Deal Lucille. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara de Mare" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > Children are baptized; ships are christened. > > Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. > Historian, genealogist and attorney > 155 Polifly Road > Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 > (201) 567-9440 office > BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) > http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Helen Graves > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > > I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated > "chr. > Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. > >>From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for > listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? > > "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology > and > abbreviation to use? > > I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the > baptism and the church where baptized. > > Helen > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

I believe that if you check with your local Catholic Church, you will find that it is baptism not christening. Helen Graves <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> wrote: Gee, Barbara, I don't know about that. I have 5 Catholic grandchildren. As infants they were "christened" in the Catholic church... and they wore "christening" dresses and white "christening" suits. Lots of discussion and shopping for "christening" outfits. It was a Big Deal Lucille. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara de Mare" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > Children are baptized; ships are christened. > > Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. > Historian, genealogist and attorney > 155 Polifly Road > Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 > (201) 567-9440 office > BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) > http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Helen Graves > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > > I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated > "chr. > Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. > >>From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for > listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? > > "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology > and > abbreviation to use? > > I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the > baptism and the church where baptized. > > Helen > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gee, Barbara, I don't know about that. I have 5 Catholic grandchildren. As infants they were "christened" in the Catholic church... and they wore "christening" dresses and white "christening" suits. Lots of discussion and shopping for "christening" outfits. It was a Big Deal Lucille. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara de Mare" <barbarademare@yahoo.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > Children are baptized; ships are christened. > > Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. > Historian, genealogist and attorney > 155 Polifly Road > Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 > (201) 567-9440 office > BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) > http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Helen Graves <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > > I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated > "chr. > Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. > >>From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for > listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? > > "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology > and > abbreviation to use? > > I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the > baptism and the church where baptized. > > Helen > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Children are baptized; ships are christened. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Helen Graves <hgraves1@frontiernet.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:48:22 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated "chr. Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology and abbreviation to use? I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the baptism and the church where baptized. Helen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Baptism is a sacrament in the Lutheran church, but I don't think it is in the Reformed. That could be the reason for noting it, although Lutherans believe one Baptism is sufficient no matter who did it. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to do it other than a pastor in case of emergency. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Elsie H. Wilson <ehwilson@charter.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 2:13:20 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism, Reform and Lutheran Part of my research has been into a colony of French Huguenots who were granted by the MarkGraff Friedrich of Karlshure-Palmbach, in Baden German, in 1700, the right to establish a village on his land. This village was named for the MarkGraff, as Friedrichstahl and is an interesting community in Germany even today. The first church records of Friedrichstahl are in French and gradually over the years shifted to a mixture of French and German and now German. However, the traditions of the French in the community have remained strong. Within a few years of its founding, some Germans became part of the community. Today the village is a mixture of French and German ancestry. In my own case, my ancestor, Johannes Heinrich Fussler, came from Boeblingen to Friedrichstahl about 1728 as a carpenter. He married into a French family and down through the years, records for his family along with other's with German Lutheran backgrounds have been noted in the church records, as well as the French family lines. They all lived together, went to the same schools, intermarried, and worshiped as members of the same church, but especially the baptism records noted whether the parents were "Reformed" or "Evangelical". I do not know if the ceremony was any different, but they find it important to note the difference: all my Fussler ancestors were noted as Evangelical and my Gorenflo, La Croix etc. ancestors were noted as Reformed. Traditions that seemed unimportant to us today, were big items in earlier times. Also, there are notations in the records of when a child was baptized "in the home", because of weakness of the child. During the 1800's, groups from this village came to America and settled in Erie, PA, in Marion, Ohio, in Lehigh Co. PA and several other localities. Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated "chr. Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology and abbreviation to use? I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the baptism and the church where baptized. Helen

In a message dated 3/8/2007 6:03:21 PM Mountain Standard Time, hswain@ix.netcom.com writes: In case you want his will, the abstract is on in WNYHS 2:29, with corrections on 16:56 adding children "Annell and Gerbrect" and correcting his name to Terhunen from Terhuness. Here's Albert's abstract but I don't have the *corrections*. Abstracts of New York Wills Vol II 1708-1728, page 29: Page 546.--ALBERT TERHUNESS. In the name of God, Amen, the 16 February, 1707/8. I, Albert Terhuness, of Hackensack, in the county of Essex, in the Province of New Jersey. I appoint my brother, John Terhuness, of Flatlands, in Kings County, and my brother-in-law, Albert Stevens, of Hackensack, tutors of my children. Provision is made for wife Mary, who is to have, among other things, a gold ring, "being in weight and price œ1." All the rest of estate to children John, Stephen, Gertruyd, Willementie, Maritie, Rachel, Albertus, Johanes, Dirck, Wyntie, and Annettie. My wife is to have the northwest chamber in the house, and firewood, and a piece of ground for a garden, and 10 schepples of corn and 6 schepples of wheat yearly. "Done at my common dwelling house in Hackensack, in the cellar chamber at 9 of the clock in the evening." Witnesses, William Borthoff, Claas Rugen, Albert Scerens, John Conrad Codwin. Proved, September 20, 1709. Best, Cynthia <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Part of my research has been into a colony of French Huguenots who were granted by the MarkGraff Friedrich of Karlshure-Palmbach, in Baden German, in 1700, the right to establish a village on his land. This village was named for the MarkGraff, as Friedrichstahl and is an interesting community in Germany even today. The first church records of Friedrichstahl are in French and gradually over the years shifted to a mixture of French and German and now German. However, the traditions of the French in the community have remained strong. Within a few years of its founding, some Germans became part of the community. Today the village is a mixture of French and German ancestry. In my own case, my ancestor, Johannes Heinrich Fussler, came from Boeblingen to Friedrichstahl about 1728 as a carpenter. He married into a French family and down through the years, records for his family along with other's with German Lutheran backgrounds have been noted in the church records, as well as the French family lines. They all lived together, went to the same schools, intermarried, and worshiped as members of the same church, but especially the baptism records noted whether the parents were "Reformed" or "Evangelical". I do not know if the ceremony was any different, but they find it important to note the difference: all my Fussler ancestors were noted as Evangelical and my Gorenflo, La Croix etc. ancestors were noted as Reformed. Traditions that seemed unimportant to us today, were big items in earlier times. Also, there are notations in the records of when a child was baptized "in the home", because of weakness of the child. During the 1800's, groups from this village came to America and settled in Erie, PA, in Marion, Ohio, in Lehigh Co. PA and several other localities. Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net