James, In answer to your question number 2: if the patentees owned some land in common, then they all had equal rights to it -- such as we find with a town's pasturage where anybody can graze his cattle. But at some point the patentees decided to divide up the common land so that each could have his own private section for pasturing his cattle, building a housing development, or (most likely) starting a farm for his son to own. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Brady" <brady.j@att.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Conveyancing in Colonial New York > Leslie asked for a legal scholar. Sorry to disappoint, but we'll see if a > layman can help here. > > My questions are: > > 1. Once a patent had been granted for land in Albany County in 1684 and a > portion of that land hand been occupied by the Patentees, Why would that > patent need to be reconfirmed and apparently reissued to the same > Patentees > in 1708? > ----- > I think the owners must have perceived some defect in the prior patent > that > they hoped to resolve. The other possibility, given the year, was that it > may have been a Dutch patent that needed re-confirmation from the British > colonial government. > >>From what little I have seen it seems safe to say that many patents had > poorly defined borders. For instance, suppose two patents that describe > boundaries as measured inland for ten miles from the Hudson River, further > supppose that those two patents are separated only by a much smaller > patent > and that the shoreline curves slightly, it's not hard to see that those > two > perpendicular boundaries might intersect further inland. > > 2. In 1743, why did the proprietors of the Saratoga Patent (descendants > of > the original patentees) have to petition the legislature for permission to > subdivide the undeveloped lands within the Saratoga Patent, which the > aforementioned proprietors held as tenants in common. > ---- > Pure speculation on my part here. Did they HAVE to petition or did they > want > to petition? Did the owners seek to gain a more easily transferable title? > Or did the colony have an interest in seeing that is wasn't called in > later > to adjudicate issues, that is, that it was providing equal protection to > all > involved parties? > > I looked into the division of the Kinderhook Patent and it seems to have > been prompted by conflicting land claims. Apparently all the parties > agreed > to accept a commission appointed pursuant to an Act of the legislature. I > guess that was preferred to a court battle. > > Jim > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It seems very unlikely that you would find a Dutch Reformed church in Essex County, which was settled by New Englanders. Your ancestors would have had to settle for whatever was available. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra VanOrman" <sandra_vanorman@msn.com> To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Locating Baptismal Records > Hello All, > > I'm trying to locate the baptismal record of my great great grandfather, > Daniel Dudley VanOrnam. He was born in Chesterfield, Essex co. New York 20 > Sept 1808. I am assuming he was baptized in a Dutch Reform Church, as was > his father, Peter VanOrnum, who was born and christened in Schaghticoke, > New York. in 1776. > > I've checked the internet to see if there is a Dutch Reform Church in > Chesterfield, but no luck. Does anyone know if there is such a church > there, or in a surrounding area? I'm stumped! > > Many thanks > Sandra VanOrman > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello List, Please read the message board posting below. This person has found an important Bible. This person is not subscribed to this list, and to reply back to her you will need to go online to the message board at rootsweb.com, the link is given below. Or you could telephone her or write. I am not related, but I believe there may be researchers reading this list who will be interested in this Bible. Best regards, Lilly Martin ****************************************************************************** This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: eknetsch_1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.northcarolina.counties.guilford/1467.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I found an old Dutch Bible in Vermont. The Antique dealer said he got it from the Mead family in Greensboro. My name is Evelyn Knetsch from Drayton Ontario, Canada. I'm so intriguied by who would of owned it, once upon a time. It was printed in 1718. Written in the Bible you can see the birthdate of Sarah Schenck, Born 19 April, 1755 and died Jan 28 1837 and the name of Letty Maria Ackerman who died Sept 12, 1833. At the front of the Bible is a signature of Sarah Schenck. Included in the Bible is a letter which is written in Dutch in April of 1730. My husband and I are both of Dutch background and are able to translate the letter a bit. Also a very faded letter written by Roelof Schenck in May 30 of 1747. It seems to say that he listened to a sermon on John 12:35. Then a third paper that states and I will try to translate: ( Roelof Schenck, In his hand. Know all men that Samuel Sherlock of Flushing, Queens County on the Island of Nassau on Province of New York am held held and firmly bound unto Theo. Truman in the same county and place the just sum of one thousand pounds. Loving brother) I've found lots of Sarah Schencks and a few names of Letitia Ackerman in the geneological sites of "Roots" and "Ancestory.com" but none that match the birth and death dates of the Sarah in this Bible. So I feel very stuck. If you can help me in any way I would greatly appreciate it. I just love doing this project and it feels like finding a pin in a haystack, but it is coming. Sincerely, Evelyn Knetsch, Box 283, Drayton On, N0G1P0, Phone 519 638 3341. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hello All, I'm trying to locate the baptismal record of my great great grandfather, Daniel Dudley VanOrnam. He was born in Chesterfield, Essex co. New York 20 Sept 1808. I am assuming he was baptized in a Dutch Reform Church, as was his father, Peter VanOrnum, who was born and christened in Schaghticoke, New York. in 1776. I've checked the internet to see if there is a Dutch Reform Church in Chesterfield, but no luck. Does anyone know if there is such a church there, or in a surrounding area? I'm stumped! Many thanks Sandra VanOrman

In eighteenth century RI, at least, the age for a poll (as well as who was included and who was exempted from the poll tax) changed over time. Knowing the applicable tax law that pertained to a specific tax list year is the only way to be certain of the age. Viewing a series of tax lists over time can be immensely helpful in determining when a resident's son turned the poll-eligible age, especially when there is no birth vital record and no baptismal record survives. Judi Watson ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

In this case, polls are voters (adult males who own property) as in the old poll tax of bygone years. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Walling" <wfwalling@hotmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > Polls can mean de-horned cattle though whether they would be separately > inventoried I don't know. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Many, many thanks...I learned more than I EVER wanted to know about BULLs... Many MORE thanks to you, Howard for grasping what I was too dimwitted to convey!!! And, I really should have had the good sense to check the Archives first. I'm just getting forgetful. Barb, the original (Jurassic Era) old bat Howard Swain wrote: >Hi Barbara, > >From: "Barbara Terhune" <batcave@695online.com> >Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:59 AM >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > > > > >>Greetings D-C Listers, >> >>Albert Albertse Terhune, the immigrant, is found in Amesfoort tax list >>records, i.e. >> >> 1675 Aug 24 Albert Albertsen TerHeunen >> At Amesfoort: Assessed 183.10 pounds for >> 2 polls*, 3 horses, 2 ditto of 3 yrs. 6 cows 3 ditto of 2. >> 29 morgens of land and valley >> [DHNY Vol IV] >> >> >>His son, Albert Albertse Terhune, Jr. is listed separately in this >>list, having married in 1675; >>I am assuming that the "2 polls" refers to Albert Sr and another adult >>male...his younger son, Jan perhaps?? >> >>MY QUESTION: At what age was a poll charge added to a young man living >>at home? 16? 18? 21??? >> >>This answere would go a loooooooong way to provide an approx birth year >>for Jan Albertse Terhune. >> >> > >I found the answer to this back in 2001. It is 16. See: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/dutch-colonies/2001-10/1002421408 > > >Also, let me also correct something I wrote on 3/10. When I said age to be >taxed was 16, that was under the English (as the linked message above shows). >I do not know the age to be taxed by the Dutch. Nor do I know that they >had a "head" tax. Most of the tax lists in New Amsterdam seem to be >taxing property, not people. > >Regards, >Howard >hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > >

I am not sure about New Amsterdam, but in Kentucky we followed the laws of Virginia. At the age of 21 a man had to pay a poll tax. If he owned anything he paid a tax on that also. Most young men had their own horse and had to pay a tax on it, even when they were living at home. We have a tax list in Ky. and it was listed as how many white males over 21 who paid tax. So, if a son was living with his father, then there were two. That is rough because we do not know the name of a young man. The DAR will accept a son if they are listed under the father, own no land, just a horse. They consider this as a male over 21 who is living at home with his father. Donna Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > Hi Barbara, > > From: "Barbara Terhune" <batcave@695online.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:59 AM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > > >> Greetings D-C Listers, >> >> Albert Albertse Terhune, the immigrant, is found in Amesfoort tax list >> records, i.e. >> >> 1675 Aug 24 Albert Albertsen TerHeunen >> At Amesfoort: Assessed 183.10 pounds for >> 2 polls*, 3 horses, 2 ditto of 3 yrs. 6 cows 3 ditto of 2. >> 29 morgens of land and valley >> [DHNY Vol IV] >> >> >> His son, Albert Albertse Terhune, Jr. is listed separately in this >> list, having married in 1675; >> I am assuming that the "2 polls" refers to Albert Sr and another adult >> male...his younger son, Jan perhaps?? >> >> MY QUESTION: At what age was a poll charge added to a young man living >> at home? 16? 18? 21??? >> >> This answere would go a loooooooong way to provide an approx birth year >> for Jan Albertse Terhune. > > I found the answer to this back in 2001. It is 16. See: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/dutch-colonies/2001-10/1002421408 > > > Also, let me also correct something I wrote on 3/10. When I said age to > be > taxed was 16, that was under the English (as the linked message above > shows). > I do not know the age to be taxed by the Dutch. Nor do I know that they > had a "head" tax. Most of the tax lists in New Amsterdam seem to be > taxing property, not people. > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Greetings D-C Listers, Albert Albertse Terhune, the immigrant, is found in Amesfoort tax list records, i.e. 1675 Aug 24 Albert Albertsen TerHeunen At Amesfoort: Assessed 183.10 pounds for 2 polls*, 3 horses, 2 ditto of 3 yrs. 6 cows 3 ditto of 2. 29 morgens of land and valley [DHNY Vol IV] His son, Albert Albertse Terhune, Jr. is listed separately in this list, having married in 1675; I am assuming that the "2 polls" refers to Albert Sr and another adult male...his younger son, Jan perhaps?? MY QUESTION: At what age was a poll charge added to a young man living at home? 16? 18? 21??? This answere would go a loooooooong way to provide an approx birth year for Jan Albertse Terhune. Many thanks for your expert assessment. Barb

Correct. However, perusing my OED, it would appear that "polls" also applied by extension to naturally hornless breeds of cattle. Cattle and sheep were apparently polled to keep them from goring each other (and their herders) and so more valuable than horned beasts. Natural polls would probably be even more valuable since they didn't have to be de-horned (a bloody strenuous affair as I recall) in the first place. The tax list refers only to animals owned by Albert Albertsen Terhune and so offers no guidance on the age of his son, Jan. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Walling" <wfwalling@hotmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > Polls can mean de-horned cattle though whether they would be separately > inventoried I don't know. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Polls can mean de-horned cattle though whether they would be separately inventoried I don't know.

Hi Barbara, From: "Barbara Terhune" <batcave@695online.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" > Greetings D-C Listers, > > Albert Albertse Terhune, the immigrant, is found in Amesfoort tax list > records, i.e. > > 1675 Aug 24 Albert Albertsen TerHeunen > At Amesfoort: Assessed 183.10 pounds for > 2 polls*, 3 horses, 2 ditto of 3 yrs. 6 cows 3 ditto of 2. > 29 morgens of land and valley > [DHNY Vol IV] > > > His son, Albert Albertse Terhune, Jr. is listed separately in this > list, having married in 1675; > I am assuming that the "2 polls" refers to Albert Sr and another adult > male...his younger son, Jan perhaps?? > > MY QUESTION: At what age was a poll charge added to a young man living > at home? 16? 18? 21??? > > This answere would go a loooooooong way to provide an approx birth year > for Jan Albertse Terhune. I found the answer to this back in 2001. It is 16. See: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/dutch-colonies/2001-10/1002421408 Also, let me also correct something I wrote on 3/10. When I said age to be taxed was 16, that was under the English (as the linked message above shows). I do not know the age to be taxed by the Dutch. Nor do I know that they had a "head" tax. Most of the tax lists in New Amsterdam seem to be taxing property, not people. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

We say"Poled" cattle never Polls,we castrate,brand,give shots and Pole the cattle then cap it with a Poled cap red hot to stop the bleeding and let the critters out of the "Squeeze" and that is their introduction to Man.Bulls are had raised as pets and left with horns so they have good memories of man. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Walling" <wfwalling@hotmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] New Question re: "age" and "polls" Polls can mean de-horned cattle though whether they would be separately inventoried I don't know. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marge, You asked specifically about sources, so I'll try to answer that. Ethel mentioned the First Reformed Church of Tarrytown, and you called it the Old Dutch Church of Sleepy Hollow. Actually it is the same. The records were originally published by David Cole in 1901, and titled: "First Record Book Of The 'Old Dutch Church of Sleepy Hollow' Organized In 1697 And Now The First Reformed Church Of Tarrytown, New York" An original translation of its brief historical matter, and a copy, faithful to the letter, of every personal and local name, of its four registers of members, consistorymen, baptisms, and marriages, from its organization to 1791, by Rev. David Cole, D.D., Yonkers, N. Y., Published by The Yonkers Historical and Library Association, 1901. The records are available on-line here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~vantasselfamilyhistoryhomepage/Dutchchurchhomepage.html The Records of the Reformed Dutch Church in New Amsterdam and New York (Vol. I, Marriages, 1890; Vol. II, Baptisms, 1639-1730, 1901; and, Vol. III, Baptisms, 1731-1800, 1902) were published by the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, and are available on-line here: http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/ Start by clicking on Church Records (B, D, M), but there is a whole lot more (Ships Lists, naming patterns, customs, etc, etc). The Bergen Church is in northern New Jersey, and the records were published thusly: Versteeg, Dingman & Thomas E. Vermilye, Jr., BERGEN RECORDS - RECORDS OF THE REFORMED PROTESTANT DUTCH CHURCH OF BERGEN IN NEW JERSEY 1666 to 1788 Three books in one; originally published in the Year Books of the Holland Society of New York; baptisms, marriages, and deaths from the oldest church in New Jersey; some narrative history as well. (1913-5), Reprinted 2003, Vol. I, 124 pp.; Vol. II; 85 pp.; Vol. III; 91 pp., The Hackensack Church records are from: RECORDS OF THE REFORMED DUTCH CHURCH OF HACKENSACK, N.J. (1686 - 1800) From Collections of the Holland Society of New York, Volume I, Part I. Registers of Members, Marriages, Baptisms and the Consistories (See publication #21 for later records.) (1891), Reprinted 1998, 349 pp., index, cloth Both are available for purchase at: http://www.bergenhistoricbooks.com/ChurchRecords.html but many Dutch-Colonies list members have the books, and would be glad to do look-ups. I checked to see if there was a specific article on the above families that was published in the NYG&B Record, but apparently not. There is one article (1985) on the Van Blarcoms but it does not deal directly with your line (and, would not yet be available on their e-library website). It is titled "Gerrit Lubbertsen Descendants of Jamaica, L.I." and appears in Volume 116, pp 154-163 and pp 202-210 (Oct 1985). Information on the Buys family is apparently included in Vol. III of Frank Doherty's "Settlers of the Beekman Patent" on pages 103-139. I am not familiar with the "MacKenzie Surname Index" so perhaps someone else can help you with that. One addition to the information provided by Ethel: Tryntje Hendricks Oosterom, the wife of Ariaen Pietersz Buys, was baptized at the New Amsterdam Reformed Dutch Church on 16 Aug 1654, as published in Volume II, page 37 of the series mentioned above (and also on-line at The Olive Tree). "Hendrick Janszen; Tryntie; Jan Corneliszen Buys, Gysbert Lubbertszen, Aeltje Schryvers" Tryntje's parents had married at the same church [Banns] 4 Dec 1652, from Volume I, p 18, of the published records: Hendrick Janszen, Van Schalchwyck in't Stecht Uytrecht, en Tryntje Lubberts, Van't Fort Orangien. Last but NOT least is information on the Hoppe Family: Andries Willemszen Hoppe(n) of New Amsterdam 1651-1658; The First Six Generations; Compiled by: Maria Jean Hopper http://www.reetree.com/html/my_book.html The above should get you started, and we'll look forward to the rest. Regards, Pam Sears

I tried and I found the Wanhauser family link, but no info on Privateers. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 3:10 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Jan Janszen Wanshaer > Hi Allan, > > From: <allan.kaufmann@us.army.mil> > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 93 > > >> Dutch Privateers. Can anyone help me locate info on Dutch Privateers? >> Specifically, I am looking for one of my ancestors' ships. Jan Jansen >> Wanshaer >> was part owner in 'La Grace" a frigate from 1644 sailing from New >> Amsterdam. > > First re. Jan Wanshaer. > Since he married Baertje Kip, there is a couple of pages on him in > History of the Kip Family in America by Frederic Ellsworth Kip. > See pp 36-38. > > He is also know as Van St. Obyn, of St. Tobyn, etc. > I agree with Mr. Van Laer (NYHM: Dutch; Register of the Provincial > Secretary vol II, > p. 268) that correct term was probably Van St. Aubin. > Now, which of the several towns named St. Aubin it was, I do not know. > However, on pp. 268-269 of the above book is a receipt that mentions > that Jan Jansen's father is Jan Wansaer residing at "Casant", which > Mr. Van Laer says is "Cadsant, or Kadzant, a village in the province of > Zeeland, Netherlands." > > You may also be interested to know that Jan was born about 1621. > This comes from a deposition that is in NYHM: Dutch; Register of the > Provincial Secretary vol III, pp. 60-61. One of the men testifying is > "Jan Jansen from St. Obyn, aged 27 years." The date of the deposition > was 28 Sept. 1648. > > As to the ship, La Garce, it is mentioned many times in the above > Reg. of the Prov. Sec. vols II and III. And also a few times in > NYHMS: Dutch; Council Minutes (vol IV). > However, even though Mr. Kip says that Jan Janszen Wanshaer > was a part owner of La Garce, I have not been able to verify this. > Mr. Kip also says that Jan sold his interest in the ship in 1646. > I did find that sale in NYHM: Dutch; Register of the Provincial Secretary > vol II, > p. 323-4. However, the seller that might be Jan Wanshaer is > shown only as "Jan Jansz." Since there were several men named > Jan Janszen, I'm not sure which one this is. > > I.N.P. Stokes in his Iconography of Manhattan Island vol II, p. 262-3 > has a brief bio on Jan Jansen van St. Aubin. Although mentioning > other mariner-type activities, he does not mention La Garce. > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Please! Do not use Christening for Baptists! We would be offended and we have never christened a child. We wait until they are of the age of understanding that Christ died on the cross for each of us . They accept Chrrist then are baptised fully underwater. I have been a Baptist all my life, being baptised at age 9 in the Ohio River across from Indiana. The River was very strong but we each held hands and all wore white for purity. It was a very memorable occasion. I always wondered why we were Baptists. During my research I found that many of our families were French Huguenots escaping from France for their lives because they were Protestant. I also found that my ancestors, who came from Carrickfergus, Ireland, were Baptists and gave the land on which to build churches, both in New Jersey and in Kentucky, then Indiana. I also found where my Virginia GrGrGr Grandmother was a charter member of a church in Hardin County in 1819. So, Baptists and Protestants go all the way back into the 1500's in both my maternal and paternal sides of family. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Buker" <jcbuker@bukerfamily.org> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Church > Helen, > > It is generally not acceptable to abbreviate any type of place names in > genealogy. If you abbreviate then it is very possible that 100 years from > now someone will be questioning what it meant. I am sure you have seen > many posts asking what does such and such mean. It is always best to > write it fully so there are no mistakes as to the meaning. > > As for using the term christening vs. baptism, since I am not familiar > with all the various religions other than Lutheran I use christening for > all religions other than Lutheran where I use baptism (I am Lutheran). > > Regards, > Jan B. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies- >> bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Helen Graves >> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:48 PM >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch >> >> I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated >> "chr. >> Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. >> >> >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for >> listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? >> >> "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology >> and >> abbreviation to use? >> >> I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the >> baptism and the church where baptized. >> >> Helen >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the >> subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Helen, It is generally not acceptable to abbreviate any type of place names in genealogy. If you abbreviate then it is very possible that 100 years from now someone will be questioning what it meant. I am sure you have seen many posts asking what does such and such mean. It is always best to write it fully so there are no mistakes as to the meaning. As for using the term christening vs. baptism, since I am not familiar with all the various religions other than Lutheran I use christening for all religions other than Lutheran where I use baptism (I am Lutheran). Regards, Jan B. > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Helen Graves > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:48 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Baptism correct term Reformed Dutch Chruch > > I have received group sheets from other researchers which have stated "chr. > Kingston Reformed Dutch Church" on them. > > >From the recent discussion, what is the acceptable or most used term for > listing baptisms at early Reformed Dutch churches on family group sheets? > > "bp. RDC Kingston" - would that work? Or is there some other terminology and > abbreviation to use? > > I want to be correct and consistent on my group sheets for listing the > baptism and the church where baptized. > > Helen > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Hullo from Australia. This is my first posting to the list. My 6 x Great Grandparents were: Johannis SYFFER born Mehren/ Flammersfeld, Rhineland, Germany, born c. 1700, married 16 October 1731, Old Dutch Church, Philipse Manor, NY, USA, to: Lea BUYS born Philipsburg, Westchester County, NY, USA 25 May 1714 Lea's parents, according to internet sources were: Pieter BUYS and Geertje HOPPE, and Pieter's parents (again: internet sources) were: Adrian Pierterse BUYS born c. 1650 in Thiel North Brabant, Gelderland, Netherlands and Trentje Hendricks Van OOSTEROM born c. 1654 in New Amsterdam, NY, USA Would love any assistance with finding primary source information on my 7x and 8x Great Grandparents above please. I have just joined the NYG&BS, so if anyone has any Record references to these families, I am able to access them, if you can provide the volume reference please. I have also joined the New England HGS and have access to the CYPHER and BUYS families in "The Settlers of Beekman Patent" series. Has anyone any comment about the NYGenWeb Westchester County, NY, collection called the "MacKenzie Surname Index" ?? Are these genealogies similar to the Beekman Patent series? Any recommendations very welcome. Unfortunately no credit card facilities seem to be available for purchases, making it more expensive for international buyers. You may ask, how did this connection end up in Australia?? Well, that's another story. I also have a few more Dutch ancestry lines which I shall list later, mean while I would love to hear from any BUYS, HOPPE, Van OOSTEROM connections. Cheers Marg Smith Mardi NSW Australia

Hi Allan, From: <allan.kaufmann@us.army.mil> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] DUTCH-COLONIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 93 > Dutch Privateers. Can anyone help me locate info on Dutch Privateers? > Specifically, I am looking for one of my ancestors' ships. Jan Jansen Wanshaer > was part owner in 'La Grace" a frigate from 1644 sailing from New Amsterdam. First re. Jan Wanshaer. Since he married Baertje Kip, there is a couple of pages on him in History of the Kip Family in America by Frederic Ellsworth Kip. See pp 36-38. He is also know as Van St. Obyn, of St. Tobyn, etc. I agree with Mr. Van Laer (NYHM: Dutch; Register of the Provincial Secretary vol II, p. 268) that correct term was probably Van St. Aubin. Now, which of the several towns named St. Aubin it was, I do not know. However, on pp. 268-269 of the above book is a receipt that mentions that Jan Jansen's father is Jan Wansaer residing at "Casant", which Mr. Van Laer says is "Cadsant, or Kadzant, a village in the province of Zeeland, Netherlands." You may also be interested to know that Jan was born about 1621. This comes from a deposition that is in NYHM: Dutch; Register of the Provincial Secretary vol III, pp. 60-61. One of the men testifying is "Jan Jansen from St. Obyn, aged 27 years." The date of the deposition was 28 Sept. 1648. As to the ship, La Garce, it is mentioned many times in the above Reg. of the Prov. Sec. vols II and III. And also a few times in NYHMS: Dutch; Council Minutes (vol IV). However, even though Mr. Kip says that Jan Janszen Wanshaer was a part owner of La Garce, I have not been able to verify this. Mr. Kip also says that Jan sold his interest in the ship in 1646. I did find that sale in NYHM: Dutch; Register of the Provincial Secretary vol II, p. 323-4. However, the seller that might be Jan Wanshaer is shown only as "Jan Jansz." Since there were several men named Jan Janszen, I'm not sure which one this is. I.N.P. Stokes in his Iconography of Manhattan Island vol II, p. 262-3 has a brief bio on Jan Jansen van St. Aubin. Although mentioning other mariner-type activities, he does not mention La Garce. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

G'day Marg, Welcome to the list. I am descended from Tryntje Buys, daughter of Adrian Pierterse Buys and Tryntje Hendricks Oosterum, who married Dirck Jansz Straut. Including copies of some of the church records. You wrote: <Johannis SYFFER born Mehren/ Flammersfeld, Rhineland, Germany, born c. 1700, married 16 October 1731, Old Dutch Church, Philipse Manor, NY, USA, to: Lea BUYS born Philipsburg, Westchester County, NY, USA 25 May 1714> "Joannis Zyfer, j.m., b. in Duyslandt, and Lea Buys, j.d., b. in Phillips Burge. Both l. here." Married: 16 October 1731. The First Reformed Church of Tarrytown, NY. [#95] ------------------------------------ <Lea's parents, according to internet sources were: Pieter BUYS and Geertje HOPPE,> "Pieter Beus, y.m. b. Bergen and Geerte Hoppe, y.d. b. New York." Marriage banns: 5 April 1702. Hackensack DRCh. [Hack:28] They had a daughter Lea baptized The First Reformed Church of Tarrytown, NY. [#280] Child: Lea. Parents: Pieter Buys, Geertje his wife. Witnesses: Niclaes d'Vouw, Maritje Buys." --------------------------------------- <and Pieter's parents (again: internet sources) were: Adrian Pierterse BUYS born c. 1650 in Thiel North Brabant, Gelderland, Netherlands and Trentje Hendricks Van OOSTEROM born c. 1654 in New Amsterdam, NY, USA> "Arien Pieterse Buys, Y.M., from Tiel, and Treyntje Hendrickx Oosteroom, Y.D., from New Jersey." Banns: 15 Sept 1672 Marriage: 30 Sept 1672 "by the minister, at Bergen." Bergen Dutch Reformed Church [#19] They had a son Pieter. His birth record is recorded at one church and his baptism at another. *Child: Pieter. Parents: Arien Pieterse Buys, Treyntje Hendrickse. Born: 12 Dec 1679. Bergen DRCh. [#71] BAPTISM: *Child: Pieter. Parents: Adriaen Pieterszen, Tryntie Hendricx. Bp: 27 Nov 1679. Witnesses: Jan Hendrickszen, Maria Jans. New York DRCh. [NYDC 2:139] Regards, Ethel Kay Konight ============================================== In a message dated 3/10/2007 msmith47@tpg.com.au writes: Hullo from Australia. This is my first posting to the list. My 6 x Great Grandparents were: Johannis SYFFER born Mehren/ Flammersfeld, Rhineland, Germany, born c. 1700, married 16 October 1731, Old Dutch Church, Philipse Manor, NY, USA, to: Lea BUYS born Philipsburg, Westchester County, NY, USA 25 May 1714 Lea's parents, according to internet sources were: Pieter BUYS and Geertje HOPPE, and Pieter's parents (again: internet sources) were: Adrian Pierterse BUYS born c. 1650 in Thiel North Brabant, Gelderland, Netherlands and Trentje Hendricks Van OOSTEROM born c. 1654 in New Amsterdam, NY, USA Would love any assistance with finding primary source information on my 7x and 8x Great Grandparents above please. I have just joined the NYG&BS, so if anyone has any Record references to these families, I am able to access them, if you can provide the volume reference please. I have also joined the New England HGS and have access to the CYPHER and BUYS families in "The Settlers of Beekman Patent" series. Has anyone any comment about the NYGenWeb Westchester County, NY, collection called the "MacKenzie Surname Index" ?? Are these genealogies similar to the Beekman Patent series? Any recommendations very welcome. Unfortunately no credit card facilities seem to be available for purchases, making it more expensive for international buyers. You may ask, how did this connection end up in Australia?? Well, that's another story. I also have a few more Dutch ancestry lines which I shall list later, mean while I would love to hear from any BUYS, HOPPE, Van OOSTEROM connections. Cheers Marg Smith Mardi NSW Australia <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.