I'm trying to determine just who the Hendrick Pietersen was who was associated with Claes Corneliussen Van Schouwen by 1640. My ancestor is believed to have been Joris Jacobszen who lived on Long Island by 1660. His descendants assumed the surname Bouwman, Bouman, or Bowman after the English takeover of the New Netherlands. Joris Jacobszen was married to Tryntje Claesen, the daughter of Claes Corenlissen Van Schouwen. Claes Cornelissen Van Schouwen was apparently sometimes referred to by the name Meutelaer or Mentelaer. The term Meutelaer was used by some to refer to the Dutch Sea Beggars or to people who were mutters, whiners, grumblers, complainers, or teasers. Some also think that the term Meutelaer may have indicated that Claes was a mason or bricklayer; however, I believe that the Dutch word associated with the trade of mason was Metselaer rather than Meutelaer. However, early writing is such that Metselaer could have easily have been confused with Meutelaer. There is a marriage record which shows that a Claes Cornelissen married Metje Harperts on March 21, 1632 at Sloterdijck which is now part of Amsterdam in the Netherlands. The bann’s were published January 20, 1632. Coryn Cornelissen who lives near Amsterdam provided me with translation of the banns which read: "Appeared before me as before Claas Corneliss of Brouwershaven age 25 and Metgie Harpers from Amsterdam 20 years old assisted by Pietertje Jacobs and living as before in the Haerlemmerstraat. . " In the margin there is also writing which translates to "The banns have been read in Brouwershaven without hindrance. This persons have been married on the 21st of March 1632 in Sloterdijk by Mathijas Mursius, vicar." I would assume that Pieterje Jacobs was the mother of Metje Harpers. Coryn also located the baptism record of Metje Herpertsen. Metje was baptized at the Neuwe Kerk (New Church) in Amsterdam on either the 7th or 9th of November in 1610. Her parents were Herpert Jansz and Pieterje Jakobs who were married on November 1, 1609 in the Oude Kerk (Old Church) in Amsterdam. An email from Cynthia Middaugh Zuber informed me that a Herbert Jansz of Hassellunen (Germany) and a Pietertjen Jacobdr, widow of Tjaling Cornelius, filed a record marriage intentions on October 17, 1609 in Amsterdam. Pietertjen Jacobdr was indicated to have been from Ameland, a Frisian island. Coryn also found that Herbert Jansz and Pieterje Jakobs had a son Marten baptized about 1612 and another son baptised 1618. Coryn also found records of the baptisms of two children of Claes Cornelissen and Metje Herperts, namely Tryntje Claesen baptized on June 12, 1633 and Herpert Claesen baptized on August 14, 1635. Thus Herpert or Harpert was born in 1635, rather than 1631 as some have reported. Further, this tends to indicate that Claes Corneliussen was still in Holland at least about 9 months prior to the baptism of Herpert. The witness for the baptism of Tryntje was Gerbris Teunisen and the witness for the baptism of Harpert was Pietertje Jacobs, probably his grandmother. It appears that this Claes Cornelissen Van Schouwen came to America sometime between 1635, when his son Herpert was baptized in Amsterdam, and Oct 26, 1640, when Pieterje Claes, possibly his daughter, was baptized in the New York Reformed Dutch Church with witnesses Jeurgie Hendrickszen and Hester Simons. Pieterje Claes could have been named after Pieterje Jacobs, the mother of Claes Cornelissen's wife Metje Harperts (or Herperts). Some apparently believe that Harpert Claesen died before his parents got to America; however, the 1657 tax record for Amersfort lists a Harpert Claesen. In November of 1651 Joris Jacobszen was a witness for the baptism of Ariaen Claesze, the son of Claes Cornelissen. Joris Jacobszen's son Jacob Jorise was baptized at the New York Dutch Reformed Church on May 20, 1652, with sponsors including Jacob Pieterszen and Metje Harpersen (or Herpertsen). I have yet to establish whether Jacob Pieterszen who witnessed the baptism of Jacob Jorise was somehow related to Joris Jacobsen. From the name and Dutch naming practices at the time one might assume that the witness Jacob Pieterszen could possibly have been the father of Joris Jacobsen, i.e. the grandfather of Jacob Jorise Bowman. On November 14, 1642 Willem Kieft granted a patent to Claes Cornelisz van Schouw for 16 morgens of land on Long Island opposite Manhattan Island between the ferry and the land of Andries Hudde. I’ve seen it said that hClaes later disposed of his land near the ferry and bought a farm at Amersfoort about six miles away. Between 1650 and 1660, Claes was owner of at least one team of horses, a wagon, and some cattle. Franklyn Frick’s "Family Tree of Jacob Banta Vanosdol 1788-1872", edited by B. Van Osdol-Schneider, self-published, 1986, notes on page 7 that "Claes was living on Bergen's Island near Flatlands in 1671. ....On March 13, 1675, Claes made a donation to the church. This was the last record of him." However in "Kings Co. Wills" (NYGBR, vol. XLVII, p. 165), the will of "Swaentie Janse, widow of Cornelius Depotter" written March 31, 1676 includes, as a witness, a "Claes Cornelinssen". If this is Claes Cornelissen van Schouw, this may be the last known record of Claes, then about 71 years old. It appears that, later in life, Claes may have at one time had land on Meutelaer's Island of the New Netherlands near the Flatlands area of Long Island. Was the Island named that because of him or was he sometimes called Meutelaer because he lived there? I have concluded that Joris Jacobszen was born about 1626 because Joris was listed as being 38 when he testified in 1664 concerning a raid that a Capt. John Scott had made on Brooklyn. See Documents Relative to the Colonial History of the State of New York by E. B. O Callaghan, Vol 2, pages 480- 483, which states: Remonstrance of Delegtes from the Dutch Towns on Long Island, biz. : Amesfoort, Breuckelen, Utrecht and Boswyck, to the Director-General and Council....Before me, Pelgrom Clocq, by the Right Honorable Director-General and Council admitted a Notary Public, residing in the village of Midwout, in New Netherland, and the undernamed witnesses, appeared Fredireick Lubberts, aged 55 years, Joris Jacobsen, aged 38 years, ... all resident inhabitants of The Ferry,.... The document was dated February 20, 1664 and Joris signed it by making his mark. On the previous day of February 19, 1664 another declaration about Capt. Scott’s actions was prepared in Amersfoort in the presence of Schepens Roelof Martense, Pieter Claesen, and Elbert Elbertsen from the testimony of Claes Cornelissen 67 and Symon Janse 35, both listed as residents of Amesfooort (Amersfoort). Claes Corneliussen would have been the father-in-law of Joris Jacobszen. Frederick Lubertsen indicated in that deposition that eight men of Scott's party came to his house with drawn swords and poked at him and that he believed that he would have been killed if it had not been for his wife and Capt. Scott. Others testifying in that February 20 deposition included Dirck Jansen age 32, Barent Jansen age 56, Hendrick Volkersen (Volkertsen) age 30, Cornelius Dircksen age 65 and Wynant Pietersen age 32, all listed as residents of “ The Ferry”. Hendrick Volkertsen was the husband of Geertie Claes, the sister of Joris Jacobszen’s wife Tryntje Claes. New York Historical Manuscripts: Dutch, vol. I, record 200 indicates that in 1640 a Claes Cornelissen gave a deposition which stated: "This, date underwritten, before me, Cornelis van Tienhoven, secretary in New Netherland, at the request of Hendrick Pietersen, mason, personally appeared Claes Cornelissen van Schouw, aged about 35 years ..." A Marten Harbersen joined in that declaration which stated Hendrick Pietersen and Maryn Adriaensen had been drunk when Adriaensen sold land to Pietersen. The declaration indicated that Marten Harbersen was 26 years old, thus born about 1614. Perhaps Marten Harpertsen was a brother of Metje Harpertsen, the wife of Claes Cornelissen Van Schowen. Metje had a brother Marten who was born about 1612. In May of 1642 a Theunis Cray baptized a child Janneken and the witnesses included Sibolt Caleszen (Claesen?), Huyck Aertszen, Hendrick Pieterszen Metseir, Lysbeth Dircks, and Anneken Loockermans. In 1645 a Sybolt (Sibolt) Claeszen van Hoorn married a Susanna Jans, the widow of an Aert Theuniszen. Hendrick Pieterszen may have been referred to as Metseir because he did masonry work. It seems quite possible that the witness Hendrick Pieterszen Metseir was the same man who with Jons or Joris Jacobsen witnessed the baptism of Claes Corneliszen's son Floris in 1647. Theunis Cray and his wife Tryn Van Campen were members of the Dutch Reformed Church in New Amsterdam sometime between 1649 and 1659. On April 15, 1647 a Theunis Cray obtained a lot in New Amsterdam and on October 25, 1653 a Theunis Cray obtained 37 morgens near Hellegat on Long Island. In February of 1645 a Cornelis Claeszen baptized a son Jacob the witnesses were Hendrick Pieterszen, Pieter Colette, and Heyltie Jeuraiens, It is assumed that this Cornelis Claeszen was Cornelius Claeszen Swits. Cornelius Claeszen Swits obtained 25 morgens in Bowerie No. 5 on Manhattan in 1645. In October of 1646 a Gerrt Janszen Van Oldenburg baptized a son Jacob and the witnesses included Hendrick Pieterszen, Engel Mans, and a Claes Cornelis. On January 14, 1647 a Jons (Jans or Joris?) Jacobszen and Hendrick Pieterszen, Jan Theuniszen Schay, Marritje Lievens, and Sara Cornelis, witnessed the baptism of Floris, son of Claes Corneliszen. Could the Hendrick Pieterszen who witnessed the 1647 baptism of Floris Claeszen have been related to the Jacob Pieterszen who witnessed the baptism of Joris Jacobsen's son Jacob in 1652? Could Hendrick Pieterszen have been Jacob Pieterszen’s brother and thus possibly the uncle of Joris Jacobsen? In October of 1650 Gerrt. Hendrickszen baptized a daughter Grietie and the witnesses were Lambert Huybertszen, Hendrick Pieterszen, Lyntie Dirckszen, and Marie Lievens. In December of 1650 Michiel Pauluszen Van der voort baptized a son Jan and the witnesses included Adriaen Dirckszen, Hendrick Pieterszen, Grietie Gerrits, and Hester Jans. On December 24, 1651 a Hendrick Pieterszen was a witness for the baptism of Gerrit Hendrickszen's daughter Grietje. The other witnesses included Lalmbert (Lambert) Huybertszen and Lysbeth de Potter. I wonder if Hendrick Pieterszen was the father of Gerrit Hendrickszen. Lambert Huybertsen's daughter Marritie (Margaret) Lambertsen Mol married Gerrit Hendrickszen in 1646. The 1683 will of Gerrit Hendrickszen indicated that at the time of his death he lived near Stuyvesant’s Bowery, that at the time he was married to Josyntie Thomas and that his prior wife was Margaret Moll. Gerrit Hendrickszen may have sometimes been referred to as Gerrit de blau boer or Blauvelt. Some children of Gerrit Hendrickszen assumed the surname Blauvelt. Lambert Huybertsen was a witness for baptism of a number of the children of Margaret Lambertsen and Gerrit Hendrickszen between 1650 and 1653. Other witnesses for some of those baptisms were Hendrick Pieterszen, Lysbeth Dirckszen, Maria Lievens, and Lysbeth de Potter. There was a Hendrick Pieterszen who may have also been known as Hendrick Pieterszen van Wesel or van Duisburg or Van Tessel. An Elsie H. Wilson at _ehwilson@charter.net_ (mailto:ehwilson@charter.net) posted that a Hendrick Pietersen Van Tassel was married to Geertje Everts. According to David M. Riker's New Netherland Vital Records Directory a Hendrick Pieterszen arrived in the New Netherlands about 1638 and settled in Flatbush. A William Hoffman indicated that Hendrick Pieterszen Van Wesel was probably married first to Geerite Everts and then to Geertie Rutgers, probably the widow of Bryun (Bruno) Williamsz. Geertje Rutgers is believed to have had several children with her first husband. Some of those children are believed to have included: Willem Bruynsen, Wouter Bruynsen (possibly aka Walter Brimasen), and Rutger Bruynsen. Hendrick Pieterszen’s children with Geertie Everts have been suggested to have been: Pieter (Bapt. Sept. 7, 1640) Sponsors: Arlean (Ariaen) Pietersz, Volckert Evertszen, Wrouwtje (or Vrouwtje) Gerrits; Evert (Bapt. May 16, 1644) Sponsors: Abraham Pieterszen Molenaer, Hendrick Westercamp Backer, Tryntie Abrhams; Aeltje (Bapt. April 7, 1647) Sponsors: Harmen Smeemen, Nicholas Backer, Claes Cornelis (Van Schouwen?); Adam (Bapt. Feb. 12, 1651) Sponsors: Joris Dirckszen, Styntie Pieterszen; and Harmen (Bapt. Aug. 17, 1653) Sponsors: Hans Janszen, Janneken Gerrits. That Hendrick Pieterszen is believed to have had another son, Gerrit, who was mentioned in the 1692 sale of his estate. The son Gerrit married Catharina Harednbroek, widow of Hendrick Arentsen. Hendrick Pieterszen and his 2nd wife, Geertie Rutgers, are believed to have had one son Bryun, named after Geertie Rutgers first husband. The family name changed from Pieterszen or Van Wesel to Bras/Brise/Brissa by the third generation. Bruyn was known as Bruyn Hendrickson Brise. The son Garrit is believed to have also been known as Garrett Hendrickse Brissa. The son Harman was also known as Harman Hendrickse Brisse. Wouter Bruynenz was a witness at the Kingston March 21,1683 baptism of Geertje, the daughter of Bruyn Hendrickszen & Lysbeth Jans Oosterhout. In 1653 a Hendrick Pieterszen had a child Herman baptized and the witnesses were Hans Janszen and Janneken Gerrits. I. N. Phelps Stokes’ “ The Iconography of Manhattan Island, 1498-1909" ; Arno Press, NY, 1967, indicates that a Hendrick Pietersen (from Hasselt) had an interest in property beyond the New Amsterdam Wall by Jan 28, 1653. Others who had interest in property near that location included Sybout Claessen (rented) May 15, 1647 and Jan Vinje (Vinge) and heirs of Adrianna Cuvilje, the widow of Guleyn (Willem) Vinge. In August of 1655 Hendrick Volckertszen and his wife Geertie Claes baptized Volckert and the witnesses included Claes Corneliszen (believed to have been the maternal grandfather), Joris Jacobszen, and Metje Herberts (believed to have been the maternal grandmother). In 1661 Teunis Cray and and Tryntje Van Campen claimed that the widow of Hendrick Pietersen Van Hasselt owed them for board for the time that she was living with them. A Hendrick Pietersen obtained a patent for 25 morgens at Flh Apl. 7, 1664, as per O'Callaghan's New Netherlands. On April 7, 1665 a Hendrick Pietersen obtained 25 morgens at Midwout on Long Island. On October 20, 1667 a Hendrick Pietersen of Flds conveyed to Cornelis Hendrickse Van Eens 27 morgens in Flh on the W. side of the highway, with plain and meadow land, as per p 21 1/4 of Lib. C of Flh rec. Some speculate that this may have been Hendrick Pieterse Wyckoff of Flds. However, Hendrick Pierterse Wycoff is believed to have been born abt.1658 and it would have been strange for him to have been conveying land when he was only 11 years old. The 1675 Amersfoort Tax List showed a Hendrick Pietersz with 1 poll, 3 horses, 4 aged cows, 3 cows of 3 years, 2 cows of 2 years, 1 hog, and 19 morgen of land; however, that could have been a different Hendrick Pietersz than the one who made the declaration in 1640. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Hi there, Ed! What a great write-up! Thanks for posting this. This Van Schowen, etc. stuff can be quite confusing and it is good to have the details drawn together so well. I've not been doing much with Joris Jacobsen and the Van Schowen data lately, but have dipped back into my Buys research, a couple steps this way of my Marietjie Joris Jacobsen and her husband Jacob Janse Buys. I've been researching Jacob Jacobse Buys and Neetlje Volkerts Bries' son, John's second marriage into the Gordon family and related Craig connections in the Monmouth Co. NJ area. Thanks again for posting this. Elsie Wilson At 11:12 AM 3/19/2007 -0400, you wrote: >I'm trying to determine just who the Hendrick Pietersen was who >was associated with Claes Corneliussen Van Schouwen by 1640. My ancestor >is believed to have been Joris Jacobszen who lived on Long Island by >1660. His descendants assumed the surname Bouwman, Bouman, or Bowman >after the English takeover of the New Netherlands. Joris Jacobszen >was married to Tryntje Claesen, the daughter of Claes Corenlissen Van >Schouwen. Claes Cornelissen Van Schouwen was apparently sometimes >referred to by the name Meutelaer or Mentelaer. The term Meutelaer was >used by some to refer to the Dutch Sea Beggars or to people who were >mutters, whiners, grumblers, complainers, or teasers. Some also think >that the term Meutelaer may have indicated that Claes was a mason or >bricklayer; however, I believe that the Dutch word associated with the >trade of mason was Metselaer rather than Meutelaer. However, early >writing is such that Metselaer could have easily have been confused with >Meutelaer. There is a marriage record which shows that a Claes >Cornelissen married Metje Harperts on March 21, 1632 at Sloterdijck >which is now part of Amsterdam in the Netherlands. The bann’s were >published January 20, 1632. Coryn Cornelissen who lives near Amsterdam >provided me with translation of the banns which read: "Appeared before me >as before Claas Corneliss of Brouwershaven age 25 and Metgie Harpers from >Amsterdam 20 years old assisted by Pietertje Jacobs and living as before >in the Haerlemmerstraat. . " In the margin there is also writing which >translates to "The banns have been read in Brouwershaven without >hindrance. This persons have been married on the 21st of March 1632 in >Sloterdijk by Mathijas Mursius, vicar." I would assume that Pieterje >Jacobs was the mother of Metje Harpers. Coryn also located the baptism >record of Metje Herpertsen. Metje was baptized at the Neuwe Kerk (New >Church) in Amsterdam on either the 7th or 9th of November in 1610. Her >parents were Herpert Jansz and Pieterje Jakobs who were married on >November 1, 1609 in the Oude Kerk (Old Church) in Amsterdam. An >email from Cynthia Middaugh Zuber informed me that a Herbert Jansz of >Hassellunen (Germany) and a Pietertjen Jacobdr, widow of Tjaling >Cornelius, filed a record marriage intentions on October 17, 1609 in >Amsterdam. Pietertjen Jacobdr was indicated to have been from Ameland, a >Frisian island. Coryn also found that Herbert Jansz and Pieterje Jakobs >had a son Marten baptized about 1612 and another son baptised 1618. Coryn >also found records of the baptisms of two children of Claes Cornelissen >and Metje Herperts, namely Tryntje Claesen baptized on June 12, 1633 and >Herpert Claesen baptized on August 14, 1635. Thus Herpert or Harpert >was born in 1635, rather than 1631 as some have reported. Further, this >tends to indicate that Claes Corneliussen was still in Holland at least >about 9 months prior to the baptism of Herpert. The witness for the >baptism of Tryntje was Gerbris Teunisen and the witness for the baptism >of Harpert was Pietertje Jacobs, probably his grandmother. It appears >that this Claes Cornelissen Van Schouwen came to America sometime between >1635, when his son Herpert was baptized in Amsterdam, and Oct 26, 1640, >when Pieterje Claes, possibly his daughter, was baptized in the New York >Reformed Dutch Church with witnesses Jeurgie Hendrickszen and Hester >Simons. Pieterje Claes could have been named after Pieterje Jacobs, the >mother of Claes Cornelissen's wife Metje Harperts (or Herperts). >Some apparently believe that Harpert Claesen died before his parents got >to America; however, the 1657 tax record for Amersfort lists a Harpert >Claesen. In November of 1651 Joris Jacobszen was a witness for the baptism >of Ariaen Claesze, the son of Claes Cornelissen. Joris Jacobszen's son >Jacob Jorise was baptized at the New York Dutch Reformed Church on May >20, 1652, with sponsors including Jacob Pieterszen and Metje Harpersen (or >Herpertsen). I have yet to establish whether Jacob Pieterszen who >witnessed the baptism of Jacob Jorise was somehow related to Joris >Jacobsen. From the name and Dutch naming practices at the time one might >assume that the witness Jacob Pieterszen could possibly have been the >father of Joris Jacobsen, i.e. the grandfather of Jacob Jorise Bowman. On >November 14, 1642 Willem Kieft granted a patent to Claes Cornelisz >van Schouw for 16 morgens of land on Long Island opposite Manhattan >Island between the ferry and the land of Andries Hudde. I’ve seen it >said that hClaes later disposed of his land near the ferry and bought a >farm at Amersfoort about six miles away. Between 1650 and 1660, Claes >was owner of at least one team of horses, a wagon, and some cattle. >Franklyn Frick’s "Family Tree of Jacob Banta Vanosdol >1788-1872", edited by B. Van Osdol-Schneider, self-published, >1986, notes on page 7 that "Claes was living on Bergen's Island near >Flatlands in 1671. ....On March 13, 1675, Claes made a donation to the >church. This was the last record of him." However in "Kings Co. Wills" >(NYGBR, vol. XLVII, p. 165), the will of "Swaentie Janse, widow of >Cornelius Depotter" written March 31, 1676 includes, as a witness, a >"Claes Cornelinssen". If this is Claes Cornelissen van Schouw, this may >be the last known record of Claes, then about 71 years old. It appears >that, later in life, Claes may have at one time had land on Meutelaer's >Island of the New Netherlands near the Flatlands area of Long >Island. Was the Island named that because of him or was he sometimes >called Meutelaer because he lived there? I have concluded that Joris >Jacobszen was born about 1626 because Joris was listed as being 38 when >he testified in 1664 concerning a raid that a Capt. John Scott had made >on Brooklyn. See Documents Relative to the Colonial History of the State >of New York by E. B. O Callaghan, Vol 2, pages 480- 483, which states: >Remonstrance of Delegtes from the Dutch Towns on Long Island, biz. : >Amesfoort, Breuckelen, Utrecht and Boswyck, to the Director-General and >Council....Before me, Pelgrom Clocq, by the Right >Honorable Director-General and Council admitted a Notary Public, residing >in the village of Midwout, in New Netherland, and the undernamed >witnesses, appeared Fredireick Lubberts, aged 55 years, Joris Jacobsen, >aged 38 years, ... all resident inhabitants of The Ferry,.... The >document was dated February 20, 1664 and Joris signed it by making his >mark. On the previous day of February 19, 1664 another declaration >about Capt. Scott’s actions was prepared in Amersfoort in the presence >of Schepens Roelof Martense, Pieter Claesen, and Elbert Elbertsen from >the testimony of Claes Cornelissen 67 and Symon Janse 35, both listed as >residents of Amesfooort (Amersfoort). Claes Corneliussen would have been >the father-in-law of Joris Jacobszen. Frederick Lubertsen indicated in >that deposition that eight men of Scott's party came to his house with >drawn swords and poked at him and that he believed that he would have been >killed if it had not been for his wife and Capt. Scott. Others testifying >in that February 20 deposition included Dirck Jansen age 32, Barent >Jansen age 56, Hendrick Volkersen (Volkertsen) age 30, Cornelius >Dircksen age 65 and Wynant Pietersen age 32, all listed as residents >of “ The Ferry”. Hendrick Volkertsen was the husband of Geertie >Claes, the sister of Joris Jacobszen’s wife Tryntje Claes. New York >Historical Manuscripts: Dutch, vol. I, record 200 indicates that in 1640 >a Claes Cornelissen gave a deposition which stated: "This, >date underwritten, before me, Cornelis van Tienhoven, secretary in New >Netherland, at the request of Hendrick Pietersen, mason, personally >appeared Claes Cornelissen van Schouw, aged about 35 years ..." A Marten >Harbersen joined in that declaration which stated Hendrick Pietersen and >Maryn Adriaensen had been drunk when Adriaensen sold land to Pietersen. >The declaration indicated that Marten Harbersen was 26 years old, thus >born about 1614. Perhaps Marten Harpertsen was a brother of Metje >Harpertsen, the wife of Claes Cornelissen Van Schowen. Metje had a >brother Marten who was born about 1612. In May of 1642 a Theunis Cray >baptized a child Janneken and the witnesses included Sibolt Caleszen >(Claesen?), Huyck Aertszen, Hendrick Pieterszen Metseir, Lysbeth Dircks, >and Anneken Loockermans. In 1645 a Sybolt (Sibolt) Claeszen van Hoorn >married a Susanna Jans, the widow of an Aert Theuniszen. Hendrick >Pieterszen may have been referred to as Metseir because he did masonry >work. It seems quite possible that the witness Hendrick Pieterszen >Metseir was the same man who with Jons or Joris Jacobsen witnessed the >baptism of Claes Corneliszen's son Floris in 1647. Theunis Cray and his >wife Tryn Van Campen were members of the Dutch Reformed Church in New >Amsterdam sometime between 1649 and 1659. On April 15, 1647 a Theunis >Cray obtained a lot in New Amsterdam and on October 25, 1653 a Theunis >Cray obtained 37 morgens near Hellegat on Long Island. In February of 1645 >a Cornelis Claeszen baptized a son Jacob the witnesses were Hendrick >Pieterszen, Pieter Colette, and Heyltie Jeuraiens, It is assumed that >this Cornelis Claeszen was Cornelius Claeszen Swits. Cornelius Claeszen >Swits obtained 25 morgens in Bowerie No. 5 on Manhattan in 1645. In >October of 1646 a Gerrt Janszen Van Oldenburg baptized a son Jacob >and the witnesses included Hendrick Pieterszen, Engel Mans, and a Claes >Cornelis. On January 14, 1647 a Jons (Jans or Joris?) Jacobszen and >Hendrick Pieterszen, Jan Theuniszen Schay, Marritje Lievens, and Sara >Cornelis, witnessed the baptism of Floris, son of Claes Corneliszen. >Could the Hendrick Pieterszen who witnessed the 1647 baptism of >Floris Claeszen have been related to the Jacob Pieterszen who witnessed >the baptism of Joris Jacobsen's son Jacob in 1652? Could Hendrick >Pieterszen have been Jacob Pieterszen’s brother and thus possibly the >uncle of Joris Jacobsen? In October of 1650 Gerrt. Hendrickszen baptized >a daughter Grietie and the witnesses were Lambert Huybertszen, Hendrick >Pieterszen, Lyntie Dirckszen, and Marie Lievens. In December of 1650 >Michiel Pauluszen Van der voort baptized a son Jan and the witnesses >included Adriaen Dirckszen, Hendrick Pieterszen, Grietie Gerrits, and >Hester Jans. On December 24, 1651 a Hendrick Pieterszen was a witness for >the baptism of Gerrit Hendrickszen's daughter Grietje. The other >witnesses included Lalmbert (Lambert) Huybertszen and Lysbeth de >Potter. I wonder if Hendrick Pieterszen was the father of Gerrit >Hendrickszen. Lambert Huybertsen's daughter Marritie (Margaret) >Lambertsen Mol married Gerrit Hendrickszen in 1646. The 1683 will of >Gerrit Hendrickszen indicated that at the time of his death he lived near >Stuyvesant’s Bowery, that at the time he was married to Josyntie Thomas >and that his prior wife was Margaret Moll. Gerrit Hendrickszen may have >sometimes been referred to as Gerrit de blau boer or Blauvelt. Some >children of Gerrit Hendrickszen assumed the surname Blauvelt. Lambert >Huybertsen was a witness for baptism of a number of the children of >Margaret Lambertsen and Gerrit Hendrickszen between 1650 and 1653. Other >witnesses for some of those baptisms were Hendrick Pieterszen, Lysbeth >Dirckszen, Maria Lievens, and Lysbeth de Potter. There was a Hendrick >Pieterszen who may have also been known as Hendrick Pieterszen van Wesel >or van Duisburg or Van Tessel. An Elsie H. Wilson at >_ehwilson@charter.net_ (mailto:ehwilson@charter.net) posted that >a Hendrick Pietersen Van Tassel was married to Geertje Everts. According >to David M. Riker's New Netherland Vital Records Directory a Hendrick >Pieterszen arrived in the New Netherlands about 1638 and settled >in Flatbush. A William Hoffman indicated that Hendrick Pieterszen Van >Wesel was probably married first to Geerite Everts and then to Geertie >Rutgers, probably the widow of Bryun (Bruno) Williamsz. Geertje Rutgers >is believed to have had several children with her first husband. Some of >those children are believed to have included: Willem Bruynsen, Wouter >Bruynsen (possibly aka Walter Brimasen), and Rutger Bruynsen. Hendrick >Pieterszen’s children with Geertie Everts have been suggested to have >been: Pieter (Bapt. Sept. 7, 1640) Sponsors: Arlean (Ariaen) Pietersz, >Volckert Evertszen, Wrouwtje (or Vrouwtje) Gerrits; Evert (Bapt. May >16, 1644) Sponsors: Abraham Pieterszen Molenaer, Hendrick Westercamp >Backer, Tryntie Abrhams; Aeltje (Bapt. April 7, 1647) Sponsors: Harmen >Smeemen, Nicholas Backer, Claes Cornelis (Van Schouwen?); Adam (Bapt. >Feb. 12, 1651) Sponsors: Joris Dirckszen, Styntie Pieterszen; and Harmen >(Bapt. Aug. 17, 1653) Sponsors: Hans Janszen, Janneken Gerrits. That >Hendrick Pieterszen is believed to have had another son, Gerrit, who was >mentioned in the 1692 sale of his estate. The son Gerrit married >Catharina Harednbroek, widow of Hendrick Arentsen. Hendrick Pieterszen >and his 2nd wife, Geertie Rutgers, are believed to have had one son Bryun, >named after Geertie Rutgers first husband. The family name changed from >Pieterszen or Van Wesel to Bras/Brise/Brissa by the third generation. >Bruyn was known as Bruyn Hendrickson Brise. The son Garrit is believed to >have also been known as Garrett Hendrickse Brissa. The son Harman was >also known as Harman Hendrickse Brisse. Wouter Bruynenz was a witness at >the Kingston March 21,1683 baptism of Geertje, the daughter of Bruyn >Hendrickszen & Lysbeth Jans Oosterhout. In 1653 a Hendrick Pieterszen had >a child Herman baptized and the witnesses were Hans Janszen and Janneken >Gerrits. I. N. Phelps Stokes’ “ The Iconography of Manhattan >Island, 1498-1909" ; Arno Press, NY, 1967, indicates that a Hendrick >Pietersen (from Hasselt) had an interest in property beyond the New >Amsterdam Wall by Jan 28, 1653. Others who had interest in property near >that location included Sybout Claessen (rented) May 15, 1647 and Jan >Vinje (Vinge) and heirs of Adrianna Cuvilje, the widow of Guleyn (Willem) >Vinge. In August of 1655 Hendrick Volckertszen and his wife Geertie Claes >baptized Volckert and the witnesses included Claes Corneliszen (believed >to have been the maternal grandfather), Joris Jacobszen, and Metje >Herberts (believed to have been the maternal grandmother). In >1661 Teunis Cray and and Tryntje Van Campen claimed that the widow of >Hendrick Pietersen Van Hasselt owed them for board for the time that she >was living with them. A Hendrick Pietersen obtained a patent for 25 >morgens at Flh Apl. 7, 1664, as per O'Callaghan's New Netherlands. >On April 7, 1665 a Hendrick Pietersen obtained 25 morgens at Midwout on >Long Island. On October 20, 1667 a Hendrick Pietersen of Flds conveyed to >Cornelis Hendrickse Van Eens 27 morgens in Flh on the W. side of the >highway, with plain and meadow land, as per p 21 1/4 of Lib. C of Flh >rec. Some speculate that this may have been Hendrick Pieterse Wyckoff of >Flds. However, Hendrick Pierterse Wycoff is believed to have been born >abt.1658 and it would have been strange for him to have been conveying >land when he was only 11 years old. The 1675 Amersfoort Tax List showed a >Hendrick Pietersz with 1 poll, 3 horses, 4 aged cows, 3 cows of 3 years, >2 cows of 2 years, 1 hog, and 19 morgen of land; however, that could have >been a different Hendrick Pietersz than the one who made the declaration >in 1640. ************************************** AOL now offers free email >to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at >http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from >the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with >the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Firstly a big thank you to all who assisted with my BUYS, HOPPE, Van OOSTEROM posting. I hope I have thanked you all individually, and have really appreciated (and been kept very busy with!)all of your suggestions. When using a surname as a middle name I have mainly found that it is the mother's maiden name being used. In the case of the family of Peter SYPHERS and Tamar UNDERHILL, this certainly was the case for two of their boys: Bartholomew Underhill SYPHERS born 6 June 1793 and Philip Underhill SYPHERS born 22 January 1804 Henry Lamberston SYPHERS born 19 July 1800 doesn't follow the rule!! His father, Peter, was a soldier in the Revolutionary War of Independence. He was with the Westchester County Militia commanded by Capt. Lambert. Could Henry's middle name be an adaption of LAMBERT, after the Captain?? Another son's middle name is also very interesting!! Samuel Ryerson SYPHERS, born 12 May 1798. The first son born (Bartholomew) was named after Tamar's father (Bartow UNDERHILL). Could the second son also have been named after an ancestor of Tamar?? Tamar's mother's surname (as far as I have searched and googled!!) was unknown. Did Bartow UNDERHILL marry a Sarah RYERSON?? Could Sarah's father be a Samuel RYERSON?? Sarah and Bartow's first child was born c.1755. Sarah was born c. 1730 I have noticed "The Ryerson Genealogy, by Albert Winslow Ryerson, Chicago, mentioned in the archives. Would anyone have access to this research, and be able to check whether a Sarah RYERSON is recorded, born c. 1730, with a father Samuel (or Philip, or Henry) please? I cannot find any connection to the RYERSON family, other than to assume it was connected to Tamar UNDERHILL in some way, and since the UNDERHILL family seem to be very well documented, except for Tamar's mother's surname, I thought the RYERSON name would be worth checking!! Any help really appreciated! Thank you Marg Smith Mardi, NSW Australia

Hi Kiris, Thank you for responding. The more I pondered the situation in the colonial Saratoga Patent, the more I realized the I had to go the law library. I have searched the on line catalog for the library of Widener University's Law School. I think that I have found several books on New York legal history that will answer my questions about conveyancing in colonial New York. I really do not understand why the proprietors of the Saratoga Patent had to petition the Provincial Legislature for a statute to permit them to subdivide the lands that they held as tenants in common. When I find the answers, I shall share them with the list. Leslie ----- Original Message ----- From: <KVLiddle@aol.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Conveyancing in Colonial New York > > In a message dated 3/15/2007 6:56:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > pchrist1@nycap.rr.com writes: > > >> Leslie asked for a legal scholar. Sorry to disappoint, but we'll see if >> a >> layman can help here. >> >> My questions are: >> >> 1. Once a patent had been granted for land in Albany County in 1684 and >> a >> portion of that land hand been occupied by the Patentees, Why would that >> patent need to be reconfirmed and apparently reissued to the same >> Patentees >> in 1708? >> ----- >> I think the owners must have perceived some defect in the prior patent >> that >> they hoped to resolve. The other possibility, given the year, was that >> it >> may have been a Dutch patent that needed re-confirmation from the >> British >> colonial government. >> >>>From what little I have seen it seems safe to say that many patents had >> poorly defined borders. For instance, suppose two patents that describe >> boundaries as measured inland for ten miles from the Hudson River, >> further >> supppose that those two patents are separated only by a much smaller >> patent >> and that the shoreline curves slightly, it's not hard to see that those >> two >> perpendicular boundaries might intersect further inland. >> >> 2. In 1743, why did the proprietors of the Saratoga Patent (descendants >> of >> the original patentees) have to petition the legislature for permission >> to >> subdivide the undeveloped lands within the Saratoga Patent, which the >> aforementioned proprietors held as tenants in common. >> ---- >> Pure speculation on my part here. Did they HAVE to petition or did they >> want >> to petition? Did the owners seek to gain a more easily transferable >> title? >> Or did the colony have an interest in seeing that is wasn't called in >> later >> to adjudicate issues, that is, that it was providing equal pro > > > land was sometimes purchased by a "corporation" of several individuals, > who > then developed part of it, and held the rest in common. (It took about 10 > years to wrest a 10 acre farm from the wilderness) Each partner held > shares, > and that determined the amount of land he was entitled to. If part of the > land > was not developed within a certain period of time, the government could > take > it back and sell it to someone else, and they often did particularly in > the > late 17th century early 18th. This happened with Harrison's Purchase in > Westchester County. By confirming the patent, it shows the settlers > learned > their lesson. best wishes, Kris Liddle > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Leslie, From: "Leslie B. Potter" <lbpotter@comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Conveyancing in Colonial New York > Hi Kiris, > > Thank you for responding. > > The more I pondered the situation in the colonial Saratoga Patent, the more > I realized the I had to go the law library. I have searched the on line > catalog for the library of Widener University's Law School. I think that I > have found several books on New York legal history that will answer my > questions about conveyancing in colonial New York. I really do not > understand why the proprietors of the Saratoga Patent had to petition the > Provincial Legislature for a statute to permit them to subdivide the lands > that they held as tenants in common. When I find the answers, I shall share > them with the list. One set of books that might be worth checking is: Title: The colonial laws of New York from the year 1664 to the revolution ... Imprint: Albany, J.B. Lyon, state printer, 1894. Physical Description: 5 v. 24 cm. Those are where I found the laws about the assessments that showed the age at which a young man was counted as a "head" to be taxed. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Bill Bogardus transcribes her will as dated 29 Janaury 1663, as follows: "Will of Anneke Jans Bogardus ---In the name of the Lord, Amen. Know all men by these presents, that this day, the 29th of January 1663, in the afternoon, about four o'clock, appeared before me, Derrick Van Schelluyne, notary public, in the presence of the witnesses hereafter mentioned, Anneke Janse, widow of Roeloff Janse, of Master Land, and now lastly widow of Reverend Everhardus Bogardus, residing in the village of Beverwyck, and well known to us, notary and witnesses; . . ." As to her death and burial date, he isn't precise but rather says: "Anneke Jans died in Beverwyck (now Albany, New York) and although in this book and others her date of death is recorded as February 23, 1663, this is actually the date when her son, Jan Roelofszen, then 30 years old paid the church for the rental of a burial pall. She may have died a day (or days) earlier and perhaps even buried a day or more after February 23rd, but this is the closest date known regarding her death." Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: "brookskcmo@aol.com" <brookskcmo@aol.com> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:05:37 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans Paul, Sorry, too early in the morning so I should have looked at the years a little more closely. :-) If the notary date of her will is correct and it probably is, then she was alive in March of 1663. Possibly the Bogardus date should be February 23 1663/64 but New Netherland didn't use the dual date calendar dates until after the Bristish takeover. I'd try to research what Mr Bogardus source is on her burial. Sorry for my earlier post. Chris -----Original Message----- From: paul_u@hotmail.com To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 5:36 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans David Kipp Conover in his website at http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. William Bogardus in his website at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. Both dates seem very precise, but they can’t both be right! Paul Underwood _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Paul, According to: "The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Vol 104, Number 2, pages 69-70, written by George Olin Zabriskie, F. A. S. C., titled: "Anneke Jans in Fact and Fiction", dated April 1973, this author states the Will was recorded January 29, 1663 (new Style), and on Feb. 23 1663, her son Jan Roelofsen paid for the use of the burial pall. The author says from that information, we can assume she was buried on that day or shortly prior. Best regards, Lilly Martin. Researching the descendants of Adam Brouwer b. 1620, who arrived in Manhattan in 1642. One of his sons married the grandaughter of Anneke Jans. Adam's own marriage was performed by Anneke's second husband, and Anneke was a witness to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Underwood" <paul_u@hotmail.com> To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans > David Kipp Conover in his website at > http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id > gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. > > William Bogardus in his website at > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif > gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. > > Both dates seem very precise, but they can't both be right! > > Paul Underwood > > _________________________________________________________________ > Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. > https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marg, You asked about: "The Ryerson Genealogy: Genealogy and History of the Knickerbocker Families of Ryerson, Ryerse, Ryerss; also Adriance and Martense Families; all descendants of Martin and Adriaen Reyersz (Reyerszen), of Amsterdam, Holland" By Albert Winslow Ryerson, Edited by Alfred L. Holman, Privately Printed for Edward L. Ryerson. Chicago (1916) It is available online at HeritageQuest, through your NYG&B membership. There are numerous Sarah Ryersons listed in the index, but no Bartow Underhill. However, you may want to access this book to see if any one of the Sarah's matches your criteria. Go to Books (HeritageQuest) and type "Ryerson Genealogy" in the Keywords field and it should come up on the first screen of hits. Best regards, Pam Sears

Hi all, In fact, Mr. Conover shows Anneke's will at the link Paul provided. At first I thought that the 19 Mar 1663 date might be the date the will was proved. And then I realized that it was handled in the Dutch manner where it was written directly into the register of the local notary, Dirck van Schelluyne on 29 Jan 1663. As I understand it, under the Dutch system it did not later need to be "proved". So, we should not expect to find a date proved. One of several sources of the will is WNYHS vol 4, pp. 487-489 (this is an Appendix). The date of the payment for use of the burial pall is in the Deacons' Account Book. The Dutch Settlers Society of Albany Year Book vol VII (1931-32) printed the burial pall entries. See p. 9 for the fee paid by "Jan Roelefs" on Feb 23, 1663. From surrounding entries, you can see that New Years Day was Jan 1. A more complete transcription of these accounts is in: Deacons' Accounts 1652-1674; First Dutch Reformed Church of Beverwyck / Albany, New York (Picton Press: 1998). Ian Roelef's rental is on p. 110. Totten in his somewhat outdated article in NYGBR vol 56, p. 207 says that Anneke's heirs sold her home in Beverwyck on 21 Jun 1663. So, that is not the mysterious 19 Mar 1663 date. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that the 19 Mar 1663 alleged death date came from Evjen. See: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycoloni/evjen/98evj.html Evjen gives no source and from the now known burial date, this date is clearly impossible as a death date. Unless her name was really M. Valdemar. :) Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com Standard Source Abbreviations: http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=96 From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans > Hello Paul, > > According to: "The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Vol 104, > Number 2, pages 69-70, written by George Olin Zabriskie, F. A. S. C., > titled: "Anneke Jans in Fact and Fiction", dated April 1973, this author > states the Will was recorded January 29, 1663 (new Style), and on Feb. 23 > 1663, her son Jan Roelofsen paid for the use of the burial pall. The author > says from that information, we can assume she was buried on that day or > shortly prior. > > Best regards, > Lilly Martin. > Researching the descendants of Adam Brouwer b. 1620, who arrived in > Manhattan in 1642. One of his sons married the grandaughter of Anneke Jans. > Adam's own marriage was performed by Anneke's second husband, and Anneke was > a witness to it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Underwood" <paul_u@hotmail.com> > To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:36 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans > > >> David Kipp Conover in his website at >> http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id >> gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. >> >> William Bogardus in his website at >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif >> gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. >> >> Both dates seem very precise, but they can't both be right! >> >> Paul Underwood

Looking for parents, siblings, any information on Elizabeth Martin, who married 3 May 1789 NYC Reformed Dutch Church, Robert Sneden/Sneeden. Elizabeth was born prob. about 1767; buried 11 Apr 1832 aged 65 yrs. from N.Y. Dutch Church. Robert Sneden & Elizabeth Martin had children: Hannah Moore Sneden, b. 17 Feb 1790; bapt 14 Mar 1790 N.Y. C. Ref Dutch Church (no wit.) (possibly) Mary Sneden,b. abt. 1791. Mary, daughter of Robert Sneden, 116 Chamber St., was admitted to Collegiate School 4 Feb 1804 aged 12 yrs. Elizabeth Sneden (Eliza), b. 16 Sept 1793; bapt. 13 Oct 1793 N.Y.C. Ref Dutch Church; d. 16 May 1836 in her 43rd year; buried Old Town Cemetery, Newburgh, NY (West Section #5). Elizabeth, daughter of Robert, married (1) George Bell; and married (2) (her given name in record as "Eliza") 8 Apr 1820 at Northwest Reformed Church (aka Madison Ave. Dutch Ref. Ch.; Sugar-Loaf St. Dutch Ref. Ch.), N.Y.C., Alden Belknap, second child of Capt. Isaac Belknap and his second wife, Deborah Alden. Alden Belknap was b. 17 March 1781; d. 27 Mar 1862 Brooklyn, NY; buried Old Town Cemetery, Newburgh, NY (West Section #5). Sarah Duston Sneden, b. 17 Oct 1795; bapt. 22 Nov. 1795 N.Y.C. Ref Dutch Church Susanna Sneden, bapt. 19 Nov 1797 N.Y.C. Ref Dutch Church (Susanna Sneden, sponsor) Abigail Sneden, bapt. 3 Nov 1799 N.Y.C. Ref Dutch Church Samuel Sneden, b. 25 Aug 1806; bapt. 21 Sept. 1806 NYC Ref Dutch Church; m. (probably) Sarah -?-. Jane Sneden, bapt. 13 Aug 1809 Madison Avenue Reformed Church, NYC William Kip Sneden, bapt. 17 May 1813 Madison Avenue Reformed Church, NYC Three children of Robert Sneden, names not recorded, were buried from the N.Y. Dutch Church 15 Nov 1799, 25 Mar 1802, and 8 Nov 1817. Any further information on Elizabeth Martin and her family, or about any of the people mentioned in this e-mail would be gratefully welcomed. Thanks. Pat -- Pat & Walter Wardell Englewood, FL the.wardells@gte.net

David Kipp Conover in his website at http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. William Bogardus in his website at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. Both dates seem very precise, but they can’t both be right! Paul Underwood _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

Paul, Sorry, too early in the morning so I should have looked at the years a little more closely. :-) If the notary date of her will is correct and it probably is, then she was alive in March of 1663. Possibly the Bogardus date should be February 23 1663/64 but New Netherland didn't use the dual date calendar dates until after the Bristish takeover. I'd try to research what Mr Bogardus source is on her burial. Sorry for my earlier post. Chris -----Original Message----- From: paul_u@hotmail.com To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 5:36 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans David Kipp Conover in his website at http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. William Bogardus in his website at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. Both dates seem very precise, but they can’t both be right! Paul Underwood _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Paul Look at the sources closely. The first date simply the date she made her will which means nothing in regards to her death other than the fact that she was alive on the day she made the will. She could have died the same day or 10 years letter, it is simply the date of the legal document. I don't know where William Bogardus got the burial date as I haven't researched this, but if it is correct then you can assume she died a few days before February 23, 1663 so you'd probably be best just recording her burial date and location since you don't have the precise date of death or location. Chris -----Original Message----- From: paul_u@hotmail.com To: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 5:36 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Anneke Jans David Kipp Conover in his website at http://www.conovergenealogy.com/conover-p/p1442.htm#i17886id gives the death date of Anneke Jans as 19 March 1663. William Bogardus in his website at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ghosthunter/Anneke/image003.gif gives a burial date of 23 Feb 1663. Both dates seem very precise, but they can’t both be right! Paul Underwood _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Hello Donna, Good to hear about your ancestry. I research BROUWER/Brower, and I do have the Banta lines which married into the Brower family. I have a couple of Montfort, not many. Feel free to post your families, or questions, and I will be glad to help. Where these families Manhattan, or New Jersey primarily? Best regards, Lilly Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Stark" <donnaStarkKy@fewpb.net> To: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org>; <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Roelof Schenck, Sarah Schenck, Family Bible found >I am almost sure that I am descended from Roelof Schenk. I need to look at >my papers to be sure. I have a lot of Dutch ancestors. The Bantas, Brower, >Montfort (French to Amsterdam) can't think of them all right now. It is >past midnight and I can't get to sleep. Donna Stark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> > To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:05 AM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Roelof Schenck, Sarah Schenck, Family Bible > found > > >> Hello List, >> >> Please read the message board posting below. This person has found an >> important Bible. This person is not subscribed to this list, and to >> reply >> back to her you will need to go online to the message board at >> rootsweb.com, >> the link is given below. Or you could telephone her or write. >> I am not related, but I believe there may be researchers reading this >> list >> who will be interested in this Bible. >> Best regards, >> Lilly Martin >> ****************************************************************************** >> >> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >> >> Author: eknetsch_1 >> Surnames: >> Classification: queries >> >> Message Board URL: >> >> http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.northcarolina.counties.guilford/1467.1/mb.ashx >> >> Message Board Post: >> >> I found an old Dutch Bible in Vermont. The Antique dealer said he got it >> from the Mead family in Greensboro. My name is Evelyn Knetsch from >> Drayton >> Ontario, Canada. I'm so intriguied by who would of owned it, once upon >> a >> time. It was printed in 1718. Written in the Bible you can see the >> birthdate of Sarah Schenck, Born 19 April, 1755 and died Jan 28 1837 and >> the >> name of Letty Maria Ackerman who died Sept 12, 1833. At the front of the >> Bible is a signature of Sarah Schenck. Included in the Bible is a letter >> which is written in Dutch in April of 1730. My husband and I are both of >> Dutch background and are able to translate the letter a bit. >> Also a very faded letter written by Roelof Schenck in May 30 of 1747. It >> seems to say that he listened to a sermon on John 12:35. >> Then a third paper that states and I will try to translate: ( Roelof >> Schenck, In his hand. Know all men that Samuel Sherlock of Flushing, >> Queens >> County on the Island of Nassau on Province of New York am held held and >> firmly bound unto Theo. Truman in the same county and place the just sum >> of >> one thousand pounds. Loving brother) >> I've found lots of Sarah Schencks and a few names of Letitia Ackerman in >> the geneological sites of "Roots" and "Ancestory.com" but none that match >> the birth and death dates of the Sarah in this Bible. So I feel very >> stuck. >> If you can help me in any way I would greatly appreciate it. I just love >> doing this project and it feels like finding a pin in a haystack, but it >> is >> coming. Sincerely, Evelyn Knetsch, Box 283, Drayton On, N0G1P0, Phone >> 519 >> 638 3341. >> >> Important Note: >> The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you >> would >> like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above >> and >> respond on the board. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > >

I am almost sure that I am descended from Roelof Schenk. I need to look at my papers to be sure. I have a lot of Dutch ancestors. The Bantas, Brower, Montfort (French to Amsterdam) can't think of them all right now. It is past midnight and I can't get to sleep. Donna Stark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:05 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Roelof Schenck, Sarah Schenck, Family Bible found > Hello List, > > Please read the message board posting below. This person has found an > important Bible. This person is not subscribed to this list, and to reply > back to her you will need to go online to the message board at > rootsweb.com, > the link is given below. Or you could telephone her or write. > I am not related, but I believe there may be researchers reading this list > who will be interested in this Bible. > Best regards, > Lilly Martin > ****************************************************************************** > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: eknetsch_1 > Surnames: > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.northcarolina.counties.guilford/1467.1/mb.ashx > > Message Board Post: > > I found an old Dutch Bible in Vermont. The Antique dealer said he got it > from the Mead family in Greensboro. My name is Evelyn Knetsch from Drayton > Ontario, Canada. I'm so intriguied by who would of owned it, once upon a > time. It was printed in 1718. Written in the Bible you can see the > birthdate of Sarah Schenck, Born 19 April, 1755 and died Jan 28 1837 and > the > name of Letty Maria Ackerman who died Sept 12, 1833. At the front of the > Bible is a signature of Sarah Schenck. Included in the Bible is a letter > which is written in Dutch in April of 1730. My husband and I are both of > Dutch background and are able to translate the letter a bit. > Also a very faded letter written by Roelof Schenck in May 30 of 1747. It > seems to say that he listened to a sermon on John 12:35. > Then a third paper that states and I will try to translate: ( Roelof > Schenck, In his hand. Know all men that Samuel Sherlock of Flushing, > Queens > County on the Island of Nassau on Province of New York am held held and > firmly bound unto Theo. Truman in the same county and place the just sum > of > one thousand pounds. Loving brother) > I've found lots of Sarah Schencks and a few names of Letitia Ackerman in > the geneological sites of "Roots" and "Ancestory.com" but none that match > the birth and death dates of the Sarah in this Bible. So I feel very > stuck. > If you can help me in any way I would greatly appreciate it. I just love > doing this project and it feels like finding a pin in a haystack, but it > is > coming. Sincerely, Evelyn Knetsch, Box 283, Drayton On, N0G1P0, Phone 519 > 638 3341. > > Important Note: > The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you > would > like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above > and > respond on the board. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Dag Frans, Thank you for your most welcome clarifications and corrections. Best regards, Pam Sears > Dear Pam, > you wrote: > >> but we may never know for sure. The >> records for Aernhem do not appear to have survived from that time >> period, or at least are not on-line > > --they are not on-line: I think you are right > --they do not appaer to have survived: as far as I know they did: > reformed church: > bapt.: 1593-- (meaning: starting 1593 and no major gaps till appr. 1811) > marr.: 1581-1587, 1609-- > roman catholic: > bapt.: 1605-79 (several churches with gaps; I have no exact listing here) > marr.: ?? > > And it is Arnhem and not Aernhem. > > I did not follow the whole thread on "uijt" and "van" but till these days > there is no real difference, so sometimes I say: ik kom van Oudenbosch and > sometimes I say: ik kom uit Oudenbosch. > Also in the records from the 16th and 17th century both words were used. > > Have a nice weekend > met vriendelijke groet > Frans Gouverneur

Dear Pam, you wrote: > but we may never know for sure. The > records for Aernhem do not appear to have survived from that time > period, or at least are not on-line --they are not on-line: I think you are right --they do not appaer to have survived: as far as I know they did: reformed church: bapt.: 1593-- (meaning: starting 1593 and no major gaps till appr. 1811) marr.: 1581-1587, 1609-- roman catholic: bapt.: 1605-79 (several churches with gaps; I have no exact listing here) marr.: ?? And it is Arnhem and not Aernhem. I did not follow the whole thread on "uijt" and "van" but till these days there is no real difference, so sometimes I say: ik kom van Oudenbosch and sometimes I say: ik kom uit Oudenbosch. Also in the records from the 16th and 17th century both words were used. Have a nice weekend met vriendelijke groet Frans Gouverneur > Hi to all, > > Interesting developments regarding the Mol family, and thanks to > Dorothy, Howard and Liz for their contributions. > > Here is another conundrum that occurs to me regarding the birth order of > Huybert and Hendrick, sons of Lambert Huybertszen Mol. > > We don't know when Lambert Huybertsen Mol returned to The Netherlands; > nor do we know if he went first to Aernhem or Amsterdam. Therefore, a > marriage record to Trijn Pieters would help to determine the birth order > of sons Huybert and Hendrick. Clearly, he was living in Amsterdam in > 1637, for Hendrick was baptized there in that year. However, if he > married Trijn Pieters in Aernhem prior to that date (say 1633), then > Huybert might have been baptized 1634/1635 in Aernhem, rather than 1639. > If he married Trijn Pieters in Amsterdam say 1636, the reverse might be > more appropriate: i.e. Huybert was baptized in Aernhem circa 1639. > > Personally, I'm more inclined to think that Huybert came first (named > after the paternal grandfather), but we may never know for sure. The > records for Aernhem do not appear to have survived from that time > period, or at least are not on-line. > > http://geneaknowhow.net/digi/resources.html > > Click on Gelderland-internet for a listing of the Digital Resources. > > > Regards, > Pam Sears > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

did you get the 1850 also. I found a site by Bruce Hamilton that covers the Forshay/Forshee family in New Jersey, bhami@pobox.com. I think you should contact him and see if he can connect your family. Donna Oh No. Voris was not a son, but a nephew. If you see the census and read it cl;osely (I htink 1900) you will see tht is says nephew to head of household. His name was an unusual first name and Voris was his middle name. You should see it on the census record. Thank goodness he is not your ancestor because being born in 1899, with no census, it might be hard to find his parents. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Forshay" <billforshay@yahoo.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > Pat: > > You were a great help on my brick wall. I think you put a big whole > in it this time. Again thank you for your help. Another lady is sending me > Census records from Ancestry.com from 1860 & 1900. > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Pat <pgewers@webband.com> wrote: Bill; I found in my "The Van voorhees > Family in America", 7th & 8th > generation, vol. 2; > Eva Marion VanVoorhis (Albert7, William6, John 5, Albert 4, William3, > Albert2, Steven1): b.20 Jul 1857 Fenwick, Montcalm Co., MI; m. > George Forshu (sic), son of Henry Forshu and Eliza Jane Tibbetts, 25 Dec > 1877. > George Forshu, b. 19 Dec 1852 > > Two children: > i. Lena Forshu; b. 30 Dec 1878; m. Ward B. Hoople 14 Jun 1905 > ii. Voris Forshu; b. 14 Jan 1899 > > Hope this helps. Now you can look up census records. > Pat in spokane > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Forshay" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > > >> Donna: >> >> Do you have anything on a Eva Marion Van Voorhies, b: abt 1855 >> married to George FORSHEE, b: 18 Dec 1852, married 25 Dec 1877? >> >> Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >> >> Donna Stark wrote: This will be one >> interpretation! One of my families is the Van Voorhees. It >> is known that the family was from in front of the town of Hees >> (pronounced >> Haas-with the H almost silent) thus, the name Van (in front) of the town >> of >> Hees-Van Voorhees >> >> Donna >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records >> >> >>> My reading of the difference between 'uit' and 'van' is this, and I may >>> be >>> wrong: >>> >>> 'van' = from, as in hometown, homeland; a place, if not birthplace, >>> where >>> residence was long-established. >>> >>> 'uit' = 'out of' a place, having departed from a place, that may or may >>> not have been a place of long-established residence, or even short >>> residence. It could have been a brief stopping place, from which the >>> departure was made. In any case it does not carry the sense of >>> belonging >>> to and/or being identified for some reason with a place. >>> >>> I have a 1720s Dutch-English dictionary in the archive for which I'm >>> responsible. It may help - don't know. I am not there now. Ethel, if >>> you'll remind me off-list, I'll check it for you. If others are >>> interested, please speak up. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: THJ >>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:18 am >>> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records >>> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >>> >>>> In modern Nederlands the spelling is 'uit' and means also >>>> 'from'. However, I'm not sure of the shade of difference in >>>> meaning >>>> between 'uit' and 'van' if any. >>>> >>>> Terry HJ >>>> >>>> >>>> >In the New Amsterdam Dutch Church marriage records, it usually >>>> states the >>>> >bride and groom are either "Uyt" or "Van". "Van N.Yorke" >>>> Uyt >>>> >N. Nederlt" >>>> > "Van Aernhem in Gelderlt" "Uyt Noordt Holldt" "Uyt >>>> Engelt" etc. >>>> > >>>> >I checked my Dutch-English dictionary and Van means from, but >>>> Uyt is not >>>> >listed in the dictionary. What does Uyt mean. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- >>>> COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and >> always stay connected to friends. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Donna: I didn't get the 1850 census. I got the 1860 (2 pages) and the 1900. As far as Voris goes, that is his last name. Listed on the census as Voorhis as Nephew. That is George's wife maiden name Van Voorhies. I have contacted Bruce Hamilton before and got some info from him. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX Donna Stark <donnaStarkKy@fewpb.net> wrote: did you get the 1850 also. I found a site by Bruce Hamilton that covers the Forshay/Forshee family in New Jersey, bhami@pobox.com. I think you should contact him and see if he can connect your family. Donna Oh No. Voris was not a son, but a nephew. If you see the census and read it cl;osely (I htink 1900) you will see tht is says nephew to head of household. His name was an unusual first name and Voris was his middle name. You should see it on the census record. Thank goodness he is not your ancestor because being born in 1899, with no census, it might be hard to find his parents. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Forshay" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > Pat: > > You were a great help on my brick wall. I think you put a big whole > in it this time. Again thank you for your help. Another lady is sending me > Census records from Ancestry.com from 1860 & 1900. > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Pat wrote: Bill; I found in my "The Van voorhees > Family in America", 7th & 8th > generation, vol. 2; > Eva Marion VanVoorhis (Albert7, William6, John 5, Albert 4, William3, > Albert2, Steven1): b.20 Jul 1857 Fenwick, Montcalm Co., MI; m. > George Forshu (sic), son of Henry Forshu and Eliza Jane Tibbetts, 25 Dec > 1877. > George Forshu, b. 19 Dec 1852 > > Two children: > i. Lena Forshu; b. 30 Dec 1878; m. Ward B. Hoople 14 Jun 1905 > ii. Voris Forshu; b. 14 Jan 1899 > > Hope this helps. Now you can look up census records. > Pat in spokane > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Forshay" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > > >> Donna: >> >> Do you have anything on a Eva Marion Van Voorhies, b: abt 1855 >> married to George FORSHEE, b: 18 Dec 1852, married 25 Dec 1877? >> >> Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >> >> Donna Stark wrote: This will be one >> interpretation! One of my families is the Van Voorhees. It >> is known that the family was from in front of the town of Hees >> (pronounced >> Haas-with the H almost silent) thus, the name Van (in front) of the town >> of >> Hees-Van Voorhees >> >> Donna >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records >> >> >>> My reading of the difference between 'uit' and 'van' is this, and I may >>> be >>> wrong: >>> >>> 'van' = from, as in hometown, homeland; a place, if not birthplace, >>> where >>> residence was long-established. >>> >>> 'uit' = 'out of' a place, having departed from a place, that may or may >>> not have been a place of long-established residence, or even short >>> residence. It could have been a brief stopping place, from which the >>> departure was made. In any case it does not carry the sense of >>> belonging >>> to and/or being identified for some reason with a place. >>> >>> I have a 1720s Dutch-English dictionary in the archive for which I'm >>> responsible. It may help - don't know. I am not there now. Ethel, if >>> you'll remind me off-list, I'll check it for you. If others are >>> interested, please speak up. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: THJ >>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:18 am >>> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records >>> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >>> >>>> In modern Nederlands the spelling is 'uit' and means also >>>> 'from'. However, I'm not sure of the shade of difference in >>>> meaning >>>> between 'uit' and 'van' if any. >>>> >>>> Terry HJ >>>> >>>> >>>> >In the New Amsterdam Dutch Church marriage records, it usually >>>> states the >>>> >bride and groom are either "Uyt" or "Van". "Van N.Yorke" >>>> Uyt >>>> >N. Nederlt" >>>> > "Van Aernhem in Gelderlt" "Uyt Noordt Holldt" "Uyt >>>> Engelt" etc. >>>> > >>>> >I checked my Dutch-English dictionary and Van means from, but >>>> Uyt is not >>>> >listed in the dictionary. What does Uyt mean. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- >>>> COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and >> always stay connected to friends. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Pat: You were a great help on my brick wall. I think you put a big whole in it this time. Again thank you for your help. Another lady is sending me Census records from Ancestry.com from 1860 & 1900. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pat <pgewers@webband.com> wrote: Bill; I found in my "The Van voorhees Family in America", 7th & 8th generation, vol. 2; Eva Marion VanVoorhis (Albert7, William6, John 5, Albert 4, William3, Albert2, Steven1): b.20 Jul 1857 Fenwick, Montcalm Co., MI; m. George Forshu (sic), son of Henry Forshu and Eliza Jane Tibbetts, 25 Dec 1877. George Forshu, b. 19 Dec 1852 Two children: i. Lena Forshu; b. 30 Dec 1878; m. Ward B. Hoople 14 Jun 1905 ii. Voris Forshu; b. 14 Jan 1899 Hope this helps. Now you can look up census records. Pat in spokane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Forshay" To: Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > Donna: > > Do you have anything on a Eva Marion Van Voorhies, b: abt 1855 > married to George FORSHEE, b: 18 Dec 1852, married 25 Dec 1877? > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > > Donna Stark wrote: This will be one > interpretation! One of my families is the Van Voorhees. It > is known that the family was from in front of the town of Hees (pronounced > Haas-with the H almost silent) thus, the name Van (in front) of the town > of > Hees-Van Voorhees > > Donna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records > > >> My reading of the difference between 'uit' and 'van' is this, and I may >> be >> wrong: >> >> 'van' = from, as in hometown, homeland; a place, if not birthplace, where >> residence was long-established. >> >> 'uit' = 'out of' a place, having departed from a place, that may or may >> not have been a place of long-established residence, or even short >> residence. It could have been a brief stopping place, from which the >> departure was made. In any case it does not carry the sense of belonging >> to and/or being identified for some reason with a place. >> >> I have a 1720s Dutch-English dictionary in the archive for which I'm >> responsible. It may help - don't know. I am not there now. Ethel, if >> you'll remind me off-list, I'll check it for you. If others are >> interested, please speak up. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: THJ >> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:18 am >> Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Meaning of 'Uyt' in the marriage records >> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >> >>> In modern Nederlands the spelling is 'uit' and means also >>> 'from'. However, I'm not sure of the shade of difference in >>> meaning >>> between 'uit' and 'van' if any. >>> >>> Terry HJ >>> >>> >>> >In the New Amsterdam Dutch Church marriage records, it usually >>> states the >>> >bride and groom are either "Uyt" or "Van". "Van N.Yorke" >>> Uyt >>> >N. Nederlt" >>> > "Van Aernhem in Gelderlt" "Uyt Noordt Holldt" "Uyt >>> Engelt" etc. >>> > >>> >I checked my Dutch-English dictionary and Van means from, but >>> Uyt is not >>> >listed in the dictionary. What does Uyt mean. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- >>> COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.