Hi Dorothy and others -- Actually, in my case, discovering I had Dutch ancestry STARTED me on this very addictive advocation of genealogy! When my grandmother died, in sorting through her effects we discovered photo albums, papers, woven coverlets, quilts, etc. that we had never seen before. She obviously cared deeply for her family (she had, bless her!, taken the time and effort to label and identify all those photos in those old Victorian albums, and to give their relationship to her). But she had never talked much about her family, relationships, and origins. One of the papers she had was one of those "infamous" pedigrees drawn up in the 1800s to pursue a claim on the Trinity Church property in NYC. So this sent me on my chase after ancestors and their stories. In the course of my research, I discovered the reason she kept her family history to herself -- there had been, in the late 1800s, an illegitimate child born to her aunt, who died shortly afterward. In those days, this brought great shame on the family, and since my great-grandmother raised this child, almost like a brother to my grandmother, little was ever said about his origins. My research has made me more interested in local history than I ever had been, and it has also made me very much aware that my "Dutch" ancestors were really quite a combination of nationalities, including French Huguenot, English, Scandinavian, etc. But all with a very strong "Dutch" influence. Pat -- Pat & Walter Wardell Englewood, FL the.wardells@gte.net

Dear List, I started doing geneology 50 years ago when my husband was an Army officer in Germany. I was able to find my Danish ancestors in Denmark, visit the nearby archives, and have a researcher do what I couldn't. When we returned to the states, I started on my Brittain/Britton/Stillwell etc. (my dad's side) and later worked into Aten and other Dutch families. Direct liines include Aten, Middagh, Skillman, Van Neste, and Van Dyke. In the past few years I have also discovered many of my husband's ancestors with Dutch ancestry primarily in NY & NJ. In a few cases we have had siblings of offshoots of our direct ancestors marry; but not the direct line. His lines include Holidays, Goes, Ostrander, Gardenier, Van den Bergh, Van Deursen, Bries, Van Bremen, Lansing, Traphagen, Van Hoesen, Van Schouw, and Myndertse. Sally Shreeve > Dear Listers, I am guessing that all regular discussants on this > List fall into one of two categories -- 1) Those who have always > known that they are descended from Dutch colonial ancestors and 2) > Those who stumbled upon Dutch colonial ancestors in the course of > their genealogical research. My "gateway" ancestor to a Dutch > heritage is my great grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Hagerman > (1847-1922) who was born and died in Kentucky. My mother and her > siblings always spoke of her as their "German grandmother". It > wasn't until the early 1990s that I discovered that Sarah's father > had the mighty strange name "Teunis" (spelling "Toonis" on the > handwritten marriage permission given by his future mother-in-law). > I had the good fortune to meet a "net cousin" named Anita Silvey who > is descended from Teunis Hagerman's uncle who had moved from Loudon > County, VA, to Ohio. The paper trail led us from KY and OH back to > VA, then to NJ, and finally to the immigrants Adriaen Hegeman and his > wife, Katherine Margits, who arrived in 1652 in New Amsterdam from > Amsterdam. To date I have identified 60 direct Dutch ancestors, and > my self-identity has been changed in the process! > > Does anyone else care to share their story about "How I found out I > have Dutch ancestry"? > > Dorothy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I sort of stumbled onto my Dutch ancestry! My father passed away in 1989, leaving his odd collection of genealogical notes. My mother asked me to "tie up the loose ends". At first I flatly refused, but then she hit me with, "Well, I'll just throw it all away then!" and I caved in, took the two huge boxes of his jumbled papers and spent months sorting. >From what my mother had said and what I vaguely remembered my father and his mother saying, that side of the family was English, with a bit of Scotch and Irish thrown in for variety. Months of sorting and doing a little bit of loose ends tying, I found more English, Irish and Scotch. As I worked on the WISNER line (originally from Switzerland) I soon discovered a number of Dutch connections in New York and New Netherland...BERTHOLF, VANDEREBOGART/D, TERHUNE. One name led to another...a good Scotsman, MAXWELL, in Elmira, NY married VANSTEENBERG. Then my mother sent me all of her genealogy notes since "You are doing such a great job with Dad's!" She was convinced they were all Scotch and German, with maybe an Irish line in there. They were, but her LOTT line (which she thought was German and which I can't seem to trace back to anybody!) had married a KIP. Within a year I discovered that my mother and father were cousins. More research over the years has connected them as 9th cousins descended from Nicasius deSILLE, 9th cousins once removed descended from Jan Jansen SCHEPMOES, and 10th cousins descended from Cornelis [VanDerHOEVEN] and Geertje VanFULPEN. But it doesn't stop there! Nearly 10 years after my father's death, my mother remarried. Her new husband knew little of his father's side of the family thanks to a divorce when he was very young. He asked me to do some searching. Much to his delight, I found him a half sister. The bonus for me was that she had a little bit of family genealogy to share. From her meager notes, I was able to find that my father and my step-father were cousins! They are 8th cousins once removed descended from VANSTEENBERG and they are 9th cousins 3 times remove descended from Jan Janszen VanLANGEDYCK! Small world...all Dutch related! I eventually discovered Dutch ancestors on my husband's side of the family, since DuBois was in New York from about 1660 and married into several Dutch lines. And while my husband and I are also distant cousins, as is our daughter and her husband, those are all English connections in New England. Liz

There was a large Lawyer family in Montgomery or Schoharie County, New York (not quite sure where the boundary is). They lived in Lawyersville, which is now a crossroads near Cobleskill (Schoharie County). That area wasn't settled until the early 18th century, so the dates are right. I don't think they were either Dutch or Palatines, the main settlers of the area, so have no idea when whence they got there. Debbie Freeman <freeames@comcast.net> wrote: Hello, I sure could use some help or guidance. I have come across a puzzle. I am trying to locate the family (parents, siblings) of a Jacob Lawyer (B about 1757 D 1821 in Ohio), or where he came from. I have a Jacob Lawyer mentioned in his father-in laws probate. Adam Kline born possibly in Germany, Died in Frederick Co., VA in 1799. There is also a John Adam Lawyer B about 1750-55 in PA who died in 1799 in Frederick Co., VA. Now my puzzle. There seems to be a lot of Lawyers in Schoharie, Albany Co., NY and Northcumberland Co., and Mixed Twp., York Co., PA. Has anyone come across any of the the Lawyer families? Does anyone see a migration pattern? There is a possibility that the NY Lawyers were Loyalist to the English Crown. Any Help would be appreciated. I am unsure where to go from here. Thank You, Debbie Freeman ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/

Dear fellow subscribers, I discovered I had Dutch ancestry from a posting by Jason Gervase. My maiden name is Kent and I always assumed it was English ( you know what happens when you assume?) Anyway after Jason's posting, he said he had information ( which by the way he has never been able to share with me )that Elyas Kindt was the father of Simeon Kindt/Kent . What a surprise. My Simon Kent was married to a Mariye Spier. For years now I've been researching the Kindt name. I find a Jacobus Kindt in New Amsterdam in 1690 and my Elyas would have been born around 1670 so could Jacobus be his father? I can find no Kindt's on passenger lists so it's still a mystery. I would appreciate it if subscribers would keep an eye open when they do their research for Kindts. I'm assuming (again) that he was Dutch and not German. Nancy Kent Thoben

Hi all When I started my genealogy in 1990 I never imagined Dutch ancestry or how long my ancestors had been here. I was amazed. I told my mother and cousin I was going to look into our genealogy and my mother contributed my gr grandmother's will (my father's side) and cousin Marie gave me the names of a set of gr gr grandparents names and the fact that gr gr grandfather was in the Civil War and died not from gun shots but disease and was buried at Gettysburg (my mother's side). She had a Bible page with the names of children of gr gr grandparents. She was partially correct in her facts. It was also hard to convince her otherwise:-) So armed with my gr grandmother's (Sarah Ann Squire) will. I ventured to the library in Coshocton Ohio where my father was born and his father and his father. It didn't take me too long to find her marriage record and find she was Sarah Ann Snedeker and who her father and mother were, Garrett Porter Snedeker and Ruth Ann McCoy. OK, I thought, German. I was used to lots of Germans on my material side. Lots of Germans in Ohio so no surprise. Found lots of info on various ancestors Then went to other counties to look up maternal ancestors who weren't too far away. So many new names and things to think about. One day after I was back home in California, I was at a Family History Center looking up something and I overheard the director of the library say to a researcher that Garrett was a Dutch name. Imagine! Might have taken me bit to find out otherwise. Snedeker is indeed a German name but I found later they had lived in the Netherlands for some time and had become Dutch. Someone was kind enough to photocopy parts of a book on Snedekers in SLC and I now own a copy of a revised book. This book helped me solve a problem with someone who married a Snedeker. I also have French Huguenots in the Dutch Colonies. Barbara Southern California

I never knew a thing about my birth mother ... she ran off when I was a few months old (in 1951) and my father cut all ties with her family when he remarried shortly before my thrid birthday. I didn't even know anything about this until I was 13. In my early 20s, I began research to try and find her. I got her name--Billie Truax--from their marriage license application. I never did find her but in my 40s I began working on my family genealogy. I knew a few generations about about my father's family and my birth mother's mother and father's name. In 1992, I spent a very long and somewhat frustrating week in Salt Lake City looking for my father's family in the vital records for Chicago, immigration records of 1850s, and some German church records. Finally, with only about four hours left of my week there, I decided to look in the family books (at that time on the first floor) for Billie's family. I went to the Ts and found two books titled Thura Truax Heirs Manuscripts. I looked up Billie Truax and saw that she had married Theodore Holly (it should have been Holz); the date of their marriage was correct, her parents were correct, and my brother's name and birth date were correct. Using that book I was easily able to trace back from Billie, b 1927, to Phillipe duTrieux b 1585. My work since then has "netted" 49 Dutch ancestors. I would agree with Dorothy that my self-identity has been changed. Allyne Power is not sufficient evidence of truth. Samuel Johnson, 1709-1784, English lexicographer, essayist, poet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Koenig" <dkoenig@LMI.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] How I discovered I have Dutch ancestry > Dear Listers, I am guessing that all regular discussants on this > List fall into one of two categories -- 1) Those who have always > known that they are descended from Dutch colonial ancestors and 2) > Those who stumbled upon Dutch colonial ancestors in the course of > their genealogical research. My "gateway" ancestor to a Dutch > heritage is my great grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Hagerman > (1847-1922) who was born and died in Kentucky. My mother and her > siblings always spoke of her as their "German grandmother". It > wasn't until the early 1990s that I discovered that Sarah's father > had the mighty strange name "Teunis" (spelling "Toonis" on the > handwritten marriage permission given by his future mother-in-law). > I had the good fortune to meet a "net cousin" named Anita Silvey who > is descended from Teunis Hagerman's uncle who had moved from Loudon > County, VA, to Ohio. The paper trail led us from KY and OH back to > VA, then to NJ, and finally to the immigrants Adriaen Hegeman and his > wife, Katherine Margits, who arrived in 1652 in New Amsterdam from > Amsterdam. To date I have identified 60 direct Dutch ancestors, and > my self-identity has been changed in the process! > > Does anyone else care to share their story about "How I found out I > have Dutch ancestry"? > > Dorothy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I blame my Dutch ancestors for my interest turned passion for genealogy. My mother had bugged her mother before she died to help her record as much as she remembered about the family, which was considerable. Mom made me a fan chart with all the names and a note off of one branch which said "descended from Dutch colonist Hendrick Jansen Spear" (her spelling from her father). I was young (about 25) and had just started teaching so didn't have a lot of time to do much. Also like a lot of people thought skeptically, "Oh, sure." I went with my mother-in-law (my research mentor) to Washington, D.C. one summer where we spent several days either at the Library of Congress or the DAR Library. In those few days I discovered that Grandmother was right and had found a large stack of books and transcribed documents that proved it. I also discovered all the additional Dutch ancestor lines that I was also related to. Having uncovered so much information so quickly at a young age encouraged me to continue looking at other lines. I now have the patience and curiosity 30 years later to dig into my father's lines which have been much harder to trace. I thank the Spear/Speer/Spier family for that! Even though I have not sent in much in the way of queries or comments, I want thank the experts on this list for keeping me up-to- date on current questions and new findings on my Dutch lines since I am, at the moment, spending much more time on other family lines. Nancy Ratay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dorothy Koenig" <dkoenig@LMI.net> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:56 AM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] How I discovered I have Dutch ancestry > > >> Dear Listers, I am guessing that all regular discussants on this >> List fall into one of two categories -- 1) Those who have always >> known that they are descended from Dutch colonial ancestors and 2) >> Those who stumbled upon Dutch colonial ancestors in the course of >> their genealogical research. My "gateway" ancestor to a Dutch >> heritage is my great grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Hagerman >> (1847-1922) who was born and died in Kentucky. My mother and her >> siblings always spoke of her as their "German grandmother". It >> wasn't until the early 1990s that I discovered that Sarah's father >> had the mighty strange name "Teunis" (spelling "Toonis" on the >> handwritten marriage permission given by his future mother-in-law). >> I had the good fortune to meet a "net cousin" named Anita Silvey who >> is descended from Teunis Hagerman's uncle who had moved from Loudon >> County, VA, to Ohio. The paper trail led us from KY and OH back to >> VA, then to NJ, and finally to the immigrants Adriaen Hegeman and his >> wife, Katherine Margits, who arrived in 1652 in New Amsterdam from >> Amsterdam. To date I have identified 60 direct Dutch ancestors, and >> my self-identity has been changed in the process! >> >> Does anyone else care to share their story about "How I found out I >> have Dutch ancestry"? >> >> Dorothy >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

=========================================== Source: DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy >As Howard has pointed out to me, the passengers listed on >"De Trauw" are those whose passages were not pre-paid. It >would be extremely interesting to know who paid for the >passage of this Sara Theunis but I'm at a loss on where to >find this record, if it exists in the first place. >--pete =========================================== Pete, You may wish to take a look at New Netherland Passenger Lists at http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/ships/ There is an explanation there of where these records came from, what is available (and where) and what's in them. These 'passenger lists" are not true passenger lists, the published ones are simply the names of those recorded in the West India Company Account Book as owing money for passage. Since Sara's name is on the account book, she owed money for passage and would have paid after arrival. What makes you think someone else paid for her? There is no organized record that I know of for payments after arrival in New Netherland In the case of De Trouw arriving 1664 with Sara, I have reconstructed other names of those who arrived, as part of my ongoing project. You can read about this at http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/ships/ http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/nnship34.shtml -- Olive Tree Genealogy http://olivetreegenealogy.com

>Does anyone else care to share their story about "How I found out I >have Dutch ancestry"? I always knew my grandfather's mother's maiden name was Wyckoff. I just didn't know the history of it. During my research on her, I found out about the Wyckoff House and Association, Pieter Claesz Wyckoff the founder of the family name, and the Dutch (and Huguenot) connections through marriage. Rick Kitchen _________________________________________________________________ It’s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline

Hello, I sure could use some help or guidance. I have come across a puzzle. I am trying to locate the family (parents, siblings) of a Jacob Lawyer (B about 1757 D 1821 in Ohio), or where he came from. I have a Jacob Lawyer mentioned in his father-in laws probate. Adam Kline born possibly in Germany, Died in Frederick Co., VA in 1799. There is also a John Adam Lawyer B about 1750-55 in PA who died in 1799 in Frederick Co., VA. Now my puzzle. There seems to be a lot of Lawyers in Schoharie, Albany Co., NY and Northcumberland Co., and Mixed Twp., York Co., PA. Has anyone come across any of the the Lawyer families? Does anyone see a migration pattern? There is a possibility that the NY Lawyers were Loyalist to the English Crown. Any Help would be appreciated. I am unsure where to go from here. Thank You, Debbie Freeman

Hi Pete, Thanks for the info, even if it is discouraging..lol maybe Sara paid her own passage on "De Trouw".. according to an article at the Olive Tree genealogy site, Dutch women were brought up to be independent and could bring legal action against anyone, even a husband. Perhaps Sara worked in some capacity and earned her own way to New Amsterdam. I've been trying to find Jan Dirksz VanArnhem on a ship's list, but no luck so far. I found a Jannetje Theunis who worked as a maid to Jan Verbeek in 1641, probably in Rotterdam. I'm wondering if she was a sister to Sara. The source for the info was from "Random Notes Concerning Settlers of Dutch Descent" from the American Genealogist, # 115, Vol.30 page 38-40.. And the search continues... Sandy ----- Original Message ----- From: j. gonigam<mailto:gonigam@gmail.com> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com<mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy Dear Sandra-- I, too, believe the Sara Theunis on "De Trauw" is the one who became the wife of Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem). The reasons to believe this are rather involved and ultimately tenuous, however. (I've recently been severely chastised offlist for failing to adequately qualify my conclusions.) As Howard has pointed out to me, the passengers listed on "De Trauw" are those whose passages were not pre-paid. It would be extremely interesting to know who paid for the passage of this Sara Theunis but I'm at a loss on where to find this record, if it exists in the first place. (Howard??) Ryker in "Annals of Harlem" seems to claim (without citation) that Jan Theunissen who eventually took the surname "Van Tilburg" was Sara Theunis' brother. A couple of Harlem court cases show that Jan Theunissen was intimately familiar with Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem)'s home and that his wife accompanied Sara Theunis at least once to New York. Several of Jan Theunissen's children bear the same names as several of Sara Theunis' children (although they are fairly common names.) On the other hand, Tilburg is a heck of a way from Rotterdam whence Sara supposedly hailed. Jan Theunissen Van Tilburg may have been the Jan Theunissen, possibly a carpenter from Leiden, who was Schout of Brooklyn in 1646. That Jan Theunissen may have been either a relative or friend of Tobias Theunissen from Leiden who was friend and neighbor to Cornelis Switz whose daughter was Apollonia Eckerson the mother of two of the spouses of Sara Theunis' children. It's hard to tell if all the Jan Theunissens over the years in various places are all the man who became Jan Van Tilburg. They might be, though, since he looks to have been a peripatetic sort. If Jan Theunissen is shrouded in uncertaintly, the good news is that Riker indicates there are records relating to Tobias's Theunissen's family; the bad news is they're in Leiden. So, at the moment, the short answer is no one knows who Sara Theunis was. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra VanOrman" <sandra_vanorman@msn.com<mailto:sandra_vanorman@msn.com>> To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:46 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy > Hello All, > I'm looking for information on my 6th great grandmother, Sarah Theunis, or Teunis. I recently found her on a passenger list on a ship called The Trouw, (The Faith).. she came to New Amsterdam alone from Amsterdam on Jan. 20, 1664 and arrived in April, 1664. The Captain was Jan Jansen Bestever. > > I don't have any information on Sarah's parents. She married Jan Dirksz VanArnhem 28 June 1664. > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might have the Theunis genealogy, or any information on this family. > Would also like to know where I might find more information on the ship. > > Many thanks! > > Sandra VanOrman > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Sandra-- I, too, believe the Sara Theunis on "De Trauw" is the one who became the wife of Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem). The reasons to believe this are rather involved and ultimately tenuous, however. (I've recently been severely chastised offlist for failing to adequately qualify my conclusions.) As Howard has pointed out to me, the passengers listed on "De Trauw" are those whose passages were not pre-paid. It would be extremely interesting to know who paid for the passage of this Sara Theunis but I'm at a loss on where to find this record, if it exists in the first place. (Howard??) Ryker in "Annals of Harlem" seems to claim (without citation) that Jan Theunissen who eventually took the surname "Van Tilburg" was Sara Theunis' brother. A couple of Harlem court cases show that Jan Theunissen was intimately familiar with Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem)'s home and that his wife accompanied Sara Theunis at least once to New York. Several of Jan Theunissen's children bear the same names as several of Sara Theunis' children (although they are fairly common names.) On the other hand, Tilburg is a heck of a way from Rotterdam whence Sara supposedly hailed. Jan Theunissen Van Tilburg may have been the Jan Theunissen, possibly a carpenter from Leiden, who was Schout of Brooklyn in 1646. That Jan Theunissen may have been either a relative or friend of Tobias Theunissen from Leiden who was friend and neighbor to Cornelis Switz whose daughter was Apollonia Eckerson the mother of two of the spouses of Sara Theunis' children. It's hard to tell if all the Jan Theunissens over the years in various places are all the man who became Jan Van Tilburg. They might be, though, since he looks to have been a peripatetic sort. If Jan Theunissen is shrouded in uncertaintly, the good news is that Riker indicates there are records relating to Tobias's Theunissen's family; the bad news is they're in Leiden. So, at the moment, the short answer is no one knows who Sara Theunis was. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra VanOrman" <sandra_vanorman@msn.com> To: <DUTCH-COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:46 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy > Hello All, > I'm looking for information on my 6th great grandmother, Sarah Theunis, or Teunis. I recently found her on a passenger list on a ship called The Trouw, (The Faith).. she came to New Amsterdam alone from Amsterdam on Jan. 20, 1664 and arrived in April, 1664. The Captain was Jan Jansen Bestever. > > I don't have any information on Sarah's parents. She married Jan Dirksz VanArnhem 28 June 1664. > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might have the Theunis genealogy, or any information on this family. > Would also like to know where I might find more information on the ship. > > Many thanks! > > Sandra VanOrman > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Listers, I am guessing that all regular discussants on this List fall into one of two categories -- 1) Those who have always known that they are descended from Dutch colonial ancestors and 2) Those who stumbled upon Dutch colonial ancestors in the course of their genealogical research. My "gateway" ancestor to a Dutch heritage is my great grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth Hagerman (1847-1922) who was born and died in Kentucky. My mother and her siblings always spoke of her as their "German grandmother". It wasn't until the early 1990s that I discovered that Sarah's father had the mighty strange name "Teunis" (spelling "Toonis" on the handwritten marriage permission given by his future mother-in-law). I had the good fortune to meet a "net cousin" named Anita Silvey who is descended from Teunis Hagerman's uncle who had moved from Loudon County, VA, to Ohio. The paper trail led us from KY and OH back to VA, then to NJ, and finally to the immigrants Adriaen Hegeman and his wife, Katherine Margits, who arrived in 1652 in New Amsterdam from Amsterdam. To date I have identified 60 direct Dutch ancestors, and my self-identity has been changed in the process! Does anyone else care to share their story about "How I found out I have Dutch ancestry"? Dorothy

Hi, Can you tell me what families were the four on Long Island? I know some of my Montfort families went to and owned part of LI. I just don't know which ones. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Marretje Lamberts "uyt Nieuw Nederlandt" > Howard and all, > > Thanks for the further thoughts. > > The 1996 "Jaarboek" article would undoubtedbly make at least some of the > questions surrounding Lambert Huybertson Moll clear(er), which is why I > thought it would be sensible to read it. > > The website was somewhat chaotic, but the section in which the "Jaarboek" > article was cited seemed mainly to do with the Wolferson bleach camp. > Trijtje Pieters as well as Lambert Huybertson Moll's names were mentioned > in > that section, which leads me to wonder if the article might contain > comments > about a possible relationship of Lambert Moll's wife #2, Trijtje, to the > Wolferson family. Note that I am not advocating this possibility, only > advocating that those concerned obtain this article and read it. > >> I suspect the latter because -- >> Lambert was not granted his land on LI until 1641. > > If he had hired on to work for someone else in the first few years --his > first time in the colony --he may not have owned land in that period. Even > today, many young working parents rent, rather than own their homes. > >> I'm not sure when the Dutch began settling LI, but as of the >> 1639 Manatus map only 4 families are shown there. > > If Lambert Huybertson Moll had two sons born in Amsterdam and Arnhem in > the > mid-1630's, and if he did not return to NA until 1641, which appears to be > indicated, then it's not surprising he does not appear in the 1639 map. > >>> Looks like there must also be a later notarial document concerning >>> Lambert Huybertsz Moll's residence on Long Island, containing the date >>> of January 1631, which can also be obtained. > >> It is not clear to me whether the critical facts were from a 17th C. >> document of some type or were merely 20th C. comments in the >> article. > > This article, giving a January 1631 date of residence for Lambert Moll, > should be checked in hopes of learning what the authors' source(s) of > information had been. In view of the scarcity of information on this side > of > the Pond about the early residents here, when we find references to early > notarial deeds which could shed some light on this period, we should avail > ourselves of them. > > > In view of the ongoing confusion about Marritie's birth place and about > Moll's various residences, a 20th century article citing material from > 17th > century notarial documents should not be dismissed as 'mere.' It rather > sounds as if it would be worthwhile to read. There is probably more > documentation available over there than there is over here, if we would > pursue it. > > Cordially, > Liz J > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Hello All, I'm looking for information on my 6th great grandmother, Sarah Theunis, or Teunis. I recently found her on a passenger list on a ship called The Trouw, (The Faith).. she came to New Amsterdam alone from Amsterdam on Jan. 20, 1664 and arrived in April, 1664. The Captain was Jan Jansen Bestever. I don't have any information on Sarah's parents. She married Jan Dirksz VanArnhem 28 June 1664. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might have the Theunis genealogy, or any information on this family. Would also like to know where I might find more information on the ship. Many thanks! Sandra VanOrman

Howard and all, Thanks for the further thoughts. The 1996 "Jaarboek" article would undoubtedbly make at least some of the questions surrounding Lambert Huybertson Moll clear(er), which is why I thought it would be sensible to read it. The website was somewhat chaotic, but the section in which the "Jaarboek" article was cited seemed mainly to do with the Wolferson bleach camp. Trijtje Pieters as well as Lambert Huybertson Moll's names were mentioned in that section, which leads me to wonder if the article might contain comments about a possible relationship of Lambert Moll's wife #2, Trijtje, to the Wolferson family. Note that I am not advocating this possibility, only advocating that those concerned obtain this article and read it. > I suspect the latter because -- > Lambert was not granted his land on LI until 1641. If he had hired on to work for someone else in the first few years --his first time in the colony --he may not have owned land in that period. Even today, many young working parents rent, rather than own their homes. > I'm not sure when the Dutch began settling LI, but as of the > 1639 Manatus map only 4 families are shown there. If Lambert Huybertson Moll had two sons born in Amsterdam and Arnhem in the mid-1630's, and if he did not return to NA until 1641, which appears to be indicated, then it's not surprising he does not appear in the 1639 map. >> Looks like there must also be a later notarial document concerning >> Lambert Huybertsz Moll's residence on Long Island, containing the date >> of January 1631, which can also be obtained. > It is not clear to me whether the critical facts were from a 17th C. > document of some type or were merely 20th C. comments in the > article. This article, giving a January 1631 date of residence for Lambert Moll, should be checked in hopes of learning what the authors' source(s) of information had been. In view of the scarcity of information on this side of the Pond about the early residents here, when we find references to early notarial deeds which could shed some light on this period, we should avail ourselves of them. In view of the ongoing confusion about Marritie's birth place and about Moll's various residences, a 20th century article citing material from 17th century notarial documents should not be dismissed as 'mere.' It rather sounds as if it would be worthwhile to read. There is probably more documentation available over there than there is over here, if we would pursue it. Cordially, Liz J

Dear Ed, You mentioned Wouter Bruyn but not his relationship to the family of Claes Corneliszen Van Schouw. Wouter married Neeltje Herperts, daughter of Herpert Claeszen and granddaughter of Claes Corneliszen Van Schouw. Neeltje was still alive when Wouter made his will on June 28, 1732. In the will he calls himself Wouter Brown. He lived in the township of Hempstead, Queens County, according to the will. Over the last year or so I posted several messages to Dutch-Colonies on Herpert Claeszen of Amersfoort. He was the eldest son of Claes Corneliszen Van Schouw. These can be found using the search engine for Dutch-Colonies. Also, postings concerning Wouter Bruyn (as Wouter Brunosz and other spellings) can be found using the search engine. Concerning the recent DNA program for descendants of Claes Corneliszen Van Schouw in male lines: There are now 3 Clawsons (one my close cousin), descending from Willem Claeszen, whose DNA matches the DNA of 3 Petersons descending from Gerbrant Claeszen. This is confirmatory evidence that Willem Claeszen and Gerbrant Claeszen were brothers and indeed were sons of Claes Corneliszen Van Schouw. Previous non-DNA evidence included Gerbrant serving as witness at the baptism of Willem's first child and Willem naming a son Gerbrant. I am saving a hard-copy of your last message and I may be able to comment on some other parts of this message later. Best Wishes, Ed, and to all. Frank S. Crosswhite

Hi all, From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Marretje Lamberts "uyt Nieuw Nederlandt" See comments below. > But resources in the form of documents exist in the Netherlands, and > should be explored more fully. There is a website which discusses > Lambert Huybertsz Moll and his family --parents as well as children. > Among the mass of ideas presented there are references to documents > which can be found in archives of Amersfoort, ca 1618 to the 1630's. > http://www.euronet.nl/users/warnar/lambertmoll.html > > One of these documents was quoted as saying: > "Immers, op 8 januari 1631 wordt een Lambert Huybertsz Moll, > scheepstimmerman en boer op Long Eylandt genoemd, in wie wij wel een > zoon van dit echtpaar mogen herkennen." > > --which was translated as: > "For, on Jan 8th, 1631, a certain Lambert Huybertsz Moll, > shipcarpenter and farmer on Long Island (Eylandt) is mentioned and > recognized as a son of this couple." > > I mainly agree with the translation, but add that 'echtpaar' means > 'married couple.' The married couple referred to was Hubert Lambertsz > Moll and Geertgen Cornelisdr. (van Schaick) from Amersfoort. > > I think the website author meant that the above quote came from an > article in "Jaarboek van het Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie", Deel > 50, 1996. pages 168,176. The article must refer to records extracted > from the municipal archive at Amersfoort, 1 april 1624, nr. AT002b007, > nr AT002b012, GA Amersfoort, Rechterlijk Archief 436, deel 15, deel > 16. > > This article could/should probably be ordered and explored. > > Looks like there must also be a later notarial document concerning > Lambert Huybertsz Moll's residence on Long Island, containing the date > of January 1631, which can also be obtained. It is not clear to me whether the critical facts were from a 17th C. document of some type or were merely 20th C. comments in the article. I suspect the latter because -- Lambert was not granted his land on LI until 1641. I'm not sure when the Dutch began settling LI, but as of the 1639 Manatus map only 4 families are shown there. > Whether the date, " 8 januari 1631" has been adjusted from 1630, or > needs to be adjusted to 1632, should also be explored. The original > would probably have a notation showing the date as Old Style or New > Style. The Netherlands was using Jan 1 as New Years since 1583. See: http://www.genfair.com/dates.htm So, I doubt they'd still be indicating which New Years style they were using almost 50 years later (if it is a 1631 document at all). It is still not clear to me the source of Riker's comment that Tryn Pieters was the widow of Cornelis Tijsoon van Woggelum. It is not in Bergen's Kings Co.; nor in Innes' New Amsterdam and Its People (both cited); nor in the original (1957) Blauvelt Family Genealogy (not cited). Indeed in the latter, the author also questions the idea that Marretje was born in N. Netherland "for I fail to find any mention of her father in the records prior to 1641." I do not have access to the revised Blauvelt book by D. A. Moos that he cites. Could it be in there? I still think Tryntie was Lambert's second wife. Apparently, Louis Blauvelt (author of the 1957 book) found the bap. of Gerrit Hendrickszen in 1620. His mother was "Geertje or Grietje". I note the first 2 male and 2 female names used by Marretje Mol and Gerrit were: Hendrick, Lambert, Grietje and Lisbeth. So, I'd look for a first wife of Lambert to be a Lysbeth. I agree with Pam that from the standpoint of the usual naming pattern and from a migration standpoint, it would make sense for Huybert born in Arnham to be born before Hendrick born in Amsterdam. I put them in the other order because Hendrick married first and because I had a hole to fill between Hendrick and Abraham. These uncertainties show the need (if anyone does some more searching) to search for Tyntie in both towns and search for marriages and baptisms over a wide enough date range. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Hi Howard, Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, Widener University does not appear to have that work, but I am sure that I'll catch up with it some where. Thanks again, Leslie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Conveyancing in Colonial New York > Hi Leslie, > > From: "Leslie B. Potter" <lbpotter@comcast.net> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:48 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Conveyancing in Colonial New York > > >> Hi Kiris, >> >> Thank you for responding. >> >> The more I pondered the situation in the colonial Saratoga Patent, the >> more >> I realized the I had to go the law library. I have searched the on line >> catalog for the library of Widener University's Law School. I think that >> I >> have found several books on New York legal history that will answer my >> questions about conveyancing in colonial New York. I really do not >> understand why the proprietors of the Saratoga Patent had to petition the >> Provincial Legislature for a statute to permit them to subdivide the >> lands >> that they held as tenants in common. When I find the answers, I shall >> share >> them with the list. > > One set of books that might be worth checking is: > Title: The colonial laws of New York from the year 1664 to the > revolution ... > Imprint: Albany, J.B. Lyon, state printer, 1894. > Physical Description: 5 v. 24 cm. > > > Those are where I found the laws about the assessments that > showed the age at which a young man was counted as a > "head" to be taxed. > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message