Howard, I think you put your finger on the problem. Thanks, Marleen

Hi Frank, The taxpayers with the surname of Griggs, who lived in the Half Moon Tax District were: Widow - Half Moon, 1786 Abraham - Half Moon, 1779 Alexander - Half Moon, 1779, 1786 & 1788 Edward - Half Moom, 1779 John - Half Moon, 1779 Simeon - Half Moon, 1786 and Simon - Half Moon, 1788 When I looked more closely at the tax lists, I discovered that there were not taxpayers by the name of Griggs living in the Ballstown Tax District of Albany County, NY. Leslie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank L Griggs" <frankgriggs@juno.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] How I discovered I have Dutch ancestry > Hi Leslie, > > Although I did not make the original post on the Griggses of Half Moon, I > would very much like to see a list of "the names of the taxpayers with > the surname of Griggs, who resided in the Half Moon and Ballstown Tax > Districts of Albany County, NY between 1779 and 1789." > > Many thanks for your trouble, Frank > > > On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:14:02 -0400 "Leslie B. Potter" > <lbpotter@comcast.net> writes: >> I am sorry, but I missed the beginning of this thread. However, I >> will be >> happy to provide you with the names of the taxpayers with the >> surname of >> Griggs, who resided in the Half Moon and Ballstown Tax Districts of >> Albany >> County, NY between 1779 and 1789 should that information be of any >> use to >> you. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Leslie >> Glen Mills, PA >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In my humble opinion, (maybe I am too direct) Dutch people are all of what you said below. But there are reasons for that thinking. Holland is a small country. There is a saying God created the heavens and the earth and the Dutch created the Netherlands. Land is a premium and the economy depends on mercantilism. The Dutch invented the stock market. Business is very much a way of life. Trading and bartering is very much a sociological norm for the Dutch by necessity. The Dutch are a hardy people. The old diet was bread, beer, and fish! But beyond this something I have always noticed about Hollanders. They blend in. Where ever they go they blend in. People often point out that say Japanese are "buying" up America but they never notice the Dutch quietly going about their business, which is business. A factoid is besides the British the Dutch own more real estate and businesses in America than anyone else, and you would never know it. This is why the Dutch, in general had pretty good relationships with Native Americans. They wanted trade and they did not want anything to hurt that trade. Also the Dutch have been big liberals for centuries. Because they accepted other Europeans and other religions, including Judaism, they attracted wealth and other cultures that have made them a great nation. Like America that diversity has given strength while the other European nations are trying to catch up. The European Union is just a mock up of the Benelux trade agreement between all of the Low Countries. Ah yes, the Dutch are often overlooked but their effect has not been. Ed, proud to be a Nederlander! Sorry...my email was sent before I finished it. My granddaughter has a school paper to do...she can use some help! The assignment is... Discuss in the paper the information gathered detailing the characteristics of your particular ethnic background which conform you or do not conform to the commonly held ideas. This should be as personal as possible to enable the paper to be revealing. (5-6 pages) Everyone is a consequence of their ancestral origins. Genetically, and through association, you have become reflections of them. The discovery of these origins enables you to identify ethnic groups that have influenced your development. An understanding of these ethnicities become valuable tools for self- realization. Family values, attitudes concerning life and even the celebration of holidays can be associated with your familial beginnings. She is going to compare and contrast them with what qualities, values, and traditions we have. I am assuming we are part Dutch...I am a direct descendant from Cornelius Melyn and John Winans. This is all I could find on the net about Dutch qualities. The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. hey are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or refreshing. Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a chance to practically economize, they will. Alice La Rue ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello everyone, I have enjoyed all the emails, they've been fun to read even if they don't relate to me, but I'm also subscribed to digest mode. lol I always thought my name CONINE was Irish. I've always been intrigued with my name, I guess because it's so different. In 1980 I decided to find out where my ancestors came from, turned out they weren't Irish, they were Dutch. The first CONINES I found were in Coxsackie NY. From there I found CONINE/CONYN were among some of the early settlers of New Amsterdam. It would be many years before I could connect my particular branch of CONINES to any of those very early settlers. Happy hunting to all of us Dutch cousins. SHEILA ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Amen! ----- Original Message ----- From: <nancyterhune@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > Let's celebrate the liveliness and generous spirit of this intelligent, > dynamic list - this fantastic resource for us all! > > Keep 'em coming!!!!! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

For myself, I have enjoyed al lmessages. Some were my families and some were not. I read them all because they intertwine so much. I am so glad to have found this group. Thanks for all the messages. Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > Well I have a saying, the temperature of a room is right when half the > people complain it is too hot and the other half complains it is too cold. > > I have a delete key and I can also choose not to read a message. Or I can > choose to unsubscribe. I appreciate everyone's messages, which is why I > subscribe. The room is just right. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lee > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:34 PM > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > > My feelings also enough is enough > >>From: Marlou322@aol.com >>Date: 2007/03/22 Thu AM 10:28:47 CDT >>To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > >>Yesterday I had 102 e-mails about everyone's Dutch ancestry- today- there > >>were 50. While it was veryinteresting for the most part, >>enough of it. Marion >> >> >> >>************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. >> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

>Yesterday I had 102 e-mails about everyone's Dutch ancestry- today- there >were 50. While it was veryinteresting for the most part, >enough of it. Marion Isn't that what we're subscribed here for? Rick Kitchen _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Sorry...my email was sent before I finished it. My granddaughter has a school paper to do...she can use some help! The assignment is... Discuss in the paper the information gathered detailing the characteristics of your particular ethnic background which conform you or do not conform to the commonly held ideas. This should be as personal as possible to enable the paper to be revealing. (5-6 pages) Everyone is a consequence of their ancestral origins. Genetically, and through association, you have become reflections of them. The discovery of these origins enables you to identify ethnic groups that have influenced your development. An understanding of these ethnicities become valuable tools for self- realization. Family values, attitudes concerning life and even the celebration of holidays can be associated with your familial beginnings. She is going to compare and contrast them with what qualities, values, and traditions we have. I am assuming we are part Dutch...I am a direct descendant from Cornelius Melyn and John Winans. This is all I could find on the net about Dutch qualities. The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. hey are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or refreshing. Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a chance to practically economize, they will. Alice La Rue ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Hi I haven't given this list my story yet. I started about age 14 to ask questions after our famly reunion of Van Buskirks who are all these people, how are they related. Of course we were aware of the Dutch heritage in the name. By the time I graduated highjschool in 1954 I had compiled the record of my local family which included a number of families that had arrived in the local Tully / Preble NY area about1800 from Coxsackie area, all colonial lines. While we thought they were all Dutch, I found that we were very international. Some Dutch, but some Danish, Belgian, French, Norwgian, =since All of the German area was indepenent city or provincial states, there were many nationalities. I also found many overlapping lines. I recently tried to add them up, and at the 10 generation level I have 39 cases of overlapping families. Hallenbeck 6 times Klauw, Van Hoesen, Van Vechten, Conine/Conyn , VanAllen, Van Alstyne 3 times and many more just twice. even my Mothers Engtlish lines incluced one Van Deusen, and it turned out she was a 6th cousin to my Dad. My website is set up to show many of these connedctions, and the names I found in my family tree over the past 57 years. Since joining this list in 1999 I have learned a lot more on many of these lines. I am always looking for and happy to share data with potential cousins in all of my lines. JOHN C VAN BUSKIRK http://www.geocities.com/vanbus1/ jvanbus1@twcny.rr.com

The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. They are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or refreshing. Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a chance to practically economize, they will. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Add my vote to the approval of the recent e-mails.regarding involvement with dutch genealogy. I found it very interesting. This is the most informative message board on the net. tho few have made any connection with my Dutch family, I learn something every day from the discussions. alm > [Original Message] > From: Roland Elliott <rolandelliott@inreach.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Date: 3/22/2007 6:11:09 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > > Yep,if you are not smart enough to delete you should not be on the internet > and the by-play of the members across the Fruited Plains ocean to ocean we > see and hear from our cousins and further more - - - -- - - --------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <nancyterhune@optonline.net> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > > > Let's celebrate the liveliness and generous spirit of this intelligent, > dynamic list - this fantastic resource for us all! > > Keep 'em coming!!!!! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well I have a saying, the temperature of a room is right when half the people complain it is too hot and the other half complains it is too cold. I have a delete key and I can also choose not to read a message. Or I can choose to unsubscribe. I appreciate everyone's messages, which is why I subscribe. The room is just right. -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lee Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:34 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails My feelings also enough is enough >From: Marlou322@aol.com >Date: 2007/03/22 Thu AM 10:28:47 CDT >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails >Yesterday I had 102 e-mails about everyone's Dutch ancestry- today- there >were 50. While it was veryinteresting for the most part, >enough of it. Marion > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is also the digest available to subscribe, I admit I don't read them all but I have found clues to my lines in the most suprising e-mails. I also want to commend all the people who do take the time to help all of us who have come to those proverbial brick walls or who have gone down those blind alleys. In other words, thank you. Alan Knutson Madison, WI - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: 3/22/2007 7:44 AM

Amen to that, Cousin Elsie. And thanks to Cousin Dorothy for starting the whole interesting topic. I realize it is time to join many of the rest of my Dutch cousins by including my Dutch ancestors with my signature on this list in order to aid in the process of finding mutual ancestry. Here is a start: Dutch (and Huguenot) ancestors: Abeel, Arents, Bancker, Barents, Baudartius, Bedlow, Beekman, Bradt, Cornelisse, Cuvilve, Damiens, Daniels, de Boogh, de Draijere, de Graaf, de Hooges, de Lanoy, de Peyster, d'Honneur, du Bois, Florisz, Hendriks, Het, Horsner, Huygens, Jans, Janse, Jacobze, Karneels, Keteltas, Kiersen, Lansing, Leusseler, Lubberts, Macque, Martsens, Maynard, Meyer, Meyrinck, Nazareth, Ostrander, Pels, Pietersz, Polhemus, Roosevelt, Rutgers, Samuels, Sauzeau, Scheerburch, Schepmoes, Schuyler, Snyder, Stunning, Suydam, Symons, Tjercks, Toll, Trijon, Tryon, Van Benschoten, Van Breestede, Van Capelle, Van der Werven, Van Elburch, van Eps, Van Heyningen, Van Rosenvelt, Van Rotmerz, Van Schoenderwoert, Van Slichtenhorst, van Wagenen, van Wagner, van Wenckum, Van Wyck, Ver Planck, Vigne, Wiltsie Collateral Families of Particular Interest: Deyo, Freer, Livingston, Roosa, Van Anstyne, Van Rennssalaer, Palatine ancestors: Acker, Eacker, Finck, Hans, Herkimer, Loucks, Petrie, Starring, Schnell, Tonges, Collateral Families of Particular Interest: Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Elsie H. Wilson <ehwilson@charter.net>Tjercks To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:31:03 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails Dear Dutch Cousins, I found the last few days delightful! Many of us who have been on the list for a lot of years have become good friends and cousins. Over the time, however, we tend to forget just who has which lines. I discovered people that I did not know were researching many of the same lines I research. Many people over the last few days made valuable connections with other researchers. Also, people who had not shared their research interests came out of the woodwork and shared. It was very interesting to find out the various family stories that lead to everyone's current Dutch research. I think we did run the topic through its course, but I am so glad we had this chance to make new contacts and renew old ones. You will never find a research list that is as lively, as informative and as helpful as this list! So read it or delete it! Smile and be glad you're Dutch! Groetjes, Dutch Cousins! Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Dutch Cousins, I found the last few days delightful! Many of us who have been on the list for a lot of years have become good friends and cousins. Over the time, however, we tend to forget just who has which lines. I discovered people that I did not know were researching many of the same lines I research. Many people over the last few days made valuable connections with other researchers. Also, people who had not shared their research interests came out of the woodwork and shared. It was very interesting to find out the various family stories that lead to everyone's current Dutch research. I think we did run the topic through its course, but I am so glad we had this chance to make new contacts and renew old ones. You will never find a research list that is as lively, as informative and as helpful as this list! So read it or delete it! Smile and be glad you're Dutch! Groetjes, Dutch Cousins! Elsie Wilson Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Hi Pete, From: "j. gonigam" <gonigam@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy > Dear Howard-- > > Your wondering if anyone bothered to pay the DWIC for outstanding > debt after the British took over New Amsterdam is interesting. It > might have been simple for Sara to just walk away from the debt under the > circumstances. On the other hand, I'd think that if any debts incurred under > the Dutch regime were uncollectable due to the change in the colony's > ownership a company run by canny Dutch businessmen would sell them at a > discount to some canny British businessmen who would hope to collect on them > at full value. It's how they do it today and these old businessmen seem to > have been surprisingly sophisticated in matters of finance. In the Bailey article I cited previously, she has a quote from James Riker to the effect that he thinks that after the English had confiscated the Company's property they were going to try to collect these debts. > Be that as it may, I'm not sure Sara owed passage to the West India Company. > You and Lorrine have both used phrasing implying that WIC owned or at least > controlled "De Trauw" and perhaps the other ships on the Ships' List. I > haven't been able to find a clear explication of the shipping setup anent > New Netherlands or the WIC but I have found several references to > "merchants", "shipowners", WIC-licensed privateers and WIC-chartered > ships. Perhaps WIC owned ships outright but the odds and ends that > I've found suggest at least some of the traffic between Netherlands and > New Netherlands (and apparently at least Boston and Virginia) > was via independently-owned merchant vessels. The DWIC had hundreds of ships. I think most were used in the privateering against the Spanish and in trade in the Caribbean. See "Early Dutch Emigration to America" by Hoffman NGSQ 29: 81ff. This chart: http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/mm_shipnyam.shtml shows who owned which ship. De Trouw is shown with a private owner, owner not named. Searching CDNY for de Trouw, I found a couple of interesting mentions. In II:60 it is referred to as a private trader in Feb 1659. In XIV:433-4 at the same date is mentioned that there were colonists now going on it at the expense of the Company. If the same conditions still applied to the 1664 voyage, then Sara Teunis could have gone on a private ship, but still owed the Company. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com Standard Source Abbreviations: http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=96

> From: "Marleen Van Horne" <msvnhrn@jps.net> > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:44 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] How I found out I was DANISH, not Dutch > > > > I also noticed the RDC records formerly available on Donna Ristenbatt's > > website are no longer there. I have been wondering if the RDC has made > > everyone remove the records for reasons of copyright, or whatever. Can > > anyone comment on this? > You will find the RDC records online at http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/ There are Reformed Dutch Church of New Amsterdam/New York -- Baptisms 1639 to 1801 Reformed Dutch Church of New Amsterdam/New York -- Marriages 1639 to 1801 Membership Lists of the Reformed Dutch Church of New Amsterdam/New York 1649-1701 Ted Brassard's original transcriptions of the RDC records from 1639-1730 have been placed there as well, with his widow's permission. The Albany DRC records 1683-1809 are online at http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/gen/albany/refchurch.html More Church Records of New Netherland/New York on the Olive Tree Genealogy are: Records of the Reformed Church at Conewago - Marriages 1789 to 1793 Flatbush RDC Consistory Books, Kings Co. Long Island NY - Coordinated Records of Marriages and Baptisms from the Flatbush RDC Consistory Books And the Registers of its Daughter Church at New Lots Kings County, Long Island, New York, Baptisms 1792-1872 and Marriages 1787-1872 Reformed Dutch Church of Flatlands, Long Island Baptisms 1747-1802 Reformed Dutch Church of Gravesend Baptisms 1715-1805 Reformed Dutch Church of Gravesend List of Members 1763-1805 First Reformed Dutch Church of Newtown, Long Island Communicants 1741, Baptisms 1736-1845, Marriages 1835-1846 Baptisms for St. George's Church Hempstead, Long Island, New York 1760- 1763 Reformed Dutch Church of Woodstock, Ulster Co. -- Baptisms 1805 to 1889 Grace Church, Jamaica (Queens) Baptisms 1710-1731 Grace Church, Jamaica New York Baptisms 1780-1810 Grace Church, Jamaica (Queens) Burials 1710-1731 Grace Church, Jamaica New York Tombstone Recordings Grace Church, Jamaica (Queens) Marriages 1710-1731 Grace Church, Jamaica New York Marriage Records 1769 to 1810 Miscellaneous Church Records from Jamaica, Flushing and Newtown New York. Communicants 1791-1794 | Baptisms 1790-1802 | Marriages 1790-1810 | Deaths 1790-1795 Lorine -- Olive Tree Genealogy http://olivetreegenealogy.com

Dear Howard-- Thank you for your comments regarding who may have paid Sara Theunis' passage on "De Trauw" in 1664. I guess I'll have to add this stuff to my "if I can ever manage to get to New York and Albany" file; an awful lot of the books and records I need just aren't to be had around Chicago. Your wondering if anyone bothered to pay the DWIC for outstanding debt after the British took over New Amsterdam is interesting. It might have been simple for Sara to just walk away from the debt under the circumstances. On the other hand, I'd think that if any debts incurred under the Dutch regime were uncollectable due to the change in the colony's ownership a company run by canny Dutch businessmen would sell them at a discount to some canny British businessmen who would hope to collect on them at full value. It's how they do it today and these old businessmen seem to have been surprisingly sophisticated in matters of finance. However, it occurs to me that another way to have handled unpaid passages would have been for the captain to sell the debt to somone at the voyage's terminus. The shipowner would been assured of the revenue of whatever the debt might bring and the buyer would have received full value from the debtor on whom he was is a good position to keep tabs. If this arrangement had been followed I should think the sale would have been recorded with a notary and I gather that only the records of one New Amsterdam notary have survived. I haven't seen anything like this but I haven't waded through more than a fraction of the New Amsterdam court records, either. Be that as it may, I'm not sure Sara owed passage to the West India Company. You and Lorrine have both used phrasing implying that WIC owned or at least controlled "De Trauw" and perhaps the other ships on the Ships' List. I haven't been able to find a clear explication of the shipping setup anent New Netherlands or the WIC but I have found several references to "merchants", "shipowners", WIC-licensed privateers and WIC-chartered ships. Perhaps WIC owned ships outright but the odds and ends that I've found suggest at least some of the traffic between Netherlands and New Netherlands (and apparently at least Boston and Virginia) was via independently-owned merchant vessels. Regarding Jan Theunissen whom Riker claims was the brother-in-law of "Jan the Soldier", presumably Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem), we have touched on him before. We've agreed he wasn't Jan Theunis Spier but that's still about all that can be said with confidence. There were several other Jan Theunissens in New Netherlands and it's hard to differentiate among them. Riker in "Annals of Harlem" has an extended footnote about the Jan Theunissen there being the man later known as Jan Van Tilburg. I've found several records to support this thesis and nothing to contradict it. His identification of that man as the Jan Theunissen who was thrown out of Albany for selling liquor to the Indians is probably also correct although the evidence for it seems scanty. Riker was right that Jan Theunissen tried to become a solider in Delaware but he missed the man's being in jail there for something (the nature of which is not clear). My conclusion that Jan Van Tilburg and Jan Theunissen in Harlem in the 1660's may have been Jan Theunissen, the carpenter who arrived in the "Conyng David" in 1641, and Jan Theunissen, Schout of Brooklyn in 1646, rests heavily on the presence on that voyage of Giertje Nanning. She later apparently married William Fredericks Bout. Bout was an associate of Tobias Theunissen. Tobias in turn had some sort of connection to someone named-- Jan Theunissen. (Actually it's more complicated than that and the interrelationships would run to several pages; it seems like too much to be entirely coincidental but it's shaky even by my standards.) However, a couple of passages in the Rennselear Bouvier Manuscripts seem to indicate that the unmarried "carpenter from Leiden" (thought to be Jan Theunissen) whom Van Rennselear had hired in 1641 in fact had a wife and kids back in Amsterdam who were pestering the patroon about it there during a business trip in 1642. That might help explain a lot of funny things if all these Jan Theunissens were the same guy. For the time being the thesis must be classified as promising but unproven. --pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Swain" <hswain@ix.netcom.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy > Hi Pete,Sandra, and all, > > From: "j. gonigam" <gonigam@gmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:21 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Theunis / VanArnhem genealogy > > > > Dear Sandra-- > > > > I, too, believe the Sara Theunis on "De Trauw" is the one who became the > > wife of Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem). The reasons to believe this are rather > > involved and ultimately tenuous, however. (I've recently been severely > > chastised offlist for failing to adequately qualify my conclusions.) > > > > As Howard has pointed out to me, the passengers listed on "De Trauw" > > are those whose passages were not pre-paid. It would be extremely > > interesting to know who paid for the passage of this Sara Theunis but I'm at > > a loss on where to find this record, if it exists in the first place. > > (Howard??) > > See the article by Rosalie Bailey: > Rosalie Fellows Bailey, Emigrants to New Netherland, NYGBR; vol 94 no 4 pp 193-200. > See especially endnote #4. > Note that the account book has both a debit side and a credit side. > I believe that most of the info for the "passenger lists" came from the debit side. > It appears to me from her fn 4 that the entry is listed in the name of the > person responsible to pay. She notes also that "Many accounts have no credit entry." > Makes you wonder if anybody was inclined to pay the DWIC after the > English took over. > > Also, that Van Laer (in his 1902 HSYB version) included some of the credit > info in parantheses and her article now includes many more. She ends with: > "many more credit entries remain untranslated." > > So, it appears that Sara was apparently responsible for payment; > but you'd have to get a copy of the relevant credit side to see if someone else > might have paid for her. Bailey's article has nothing on that voyage of De Trouw. > NYGBS has the account book (KK) on film; a member could probably get > a copy of that page. > > Bailey's article does show examples where other people paid. > > > Several years ago I was trying to figure out all the Jan Teuniszens > and determine which was which. I seem to recall that I wrote something > to this list (or to you) about some of what I'd found the last time this came up. > > But for a step in the elimination process, you should read the article by > Lorine and Chris in NYGBR vol 131 (July 2000), pp 163-178 on the > Pier origins. It has a good description of Jan Teunissen (Pier) in > New Netherland; so you could eliminate him (as I think he is not the > one you want). > > Regards, > Howard > hswain@ix.netcom.com > > > > > > Ryker in "Annals of Harlem" seems to claim (without citation) that Jan > > Theunissen who eventually took the surname "Van Tilburg" was Sara Theunis' > > brother. A couple of Harlem court cases show that Jan Theunissen was > > intimately familiar with Jan Dircks (Van Arnhem)'s home and that his wife > > accompanied Sara Theunis at least once to New York. Several of Jan > > Theunissen's children bear the same names as several of Sara Theunis' > > children (although they are fairly common names.) On the other hand, > > Tilburg is a heck of a way from Rotterdam whence Sara supposedly hailed. > > > > Jan Theunissen Van Tilburg may have been the Jan Theunissen, possibly a > > carpenter from Leiden, who was Schout of Brooklyn in 1646. That Jan > > Theunissen may have been either a relative or friend of Tobias Theunissen > > from Leiden who was friend and neighbor to Cornelis Switz whose daughter was > > Apollonia Eckerson the mother of two of the spouses of Sara Theunis' > > children. It's hard to tell if all the Jan Theunissens over the years in > > various places are all the man who became Jan Van Tilburg. They might be, > > though, since he looks to have been a peripatetic sort. If Jan Theunissen > > is shrouded in uncertaintly, the good news is that Riker indicates there > > are records relating to Tobias's Theunissen's family; the bad news is > > they're in Leiden. > > > > So, at the moment, the short answer is no one knows who Sara Theunis was. > > > > --pete > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yep,if you are not smart enough to delete you should not be on the internet and the by-play of the members across the Fruited Plains ocean to ocean we see and hear from our cousins and further more - - - -- - - --------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <nancyterhune@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails Let's celebrate the liveliness and generous spirit of this intelligent, dynamic list - this fantastic resource for us all! Keep 'em coming!!!!! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My feelings also enough is enough >From: Marlou322@aol.com >Date: 2007/03/22 Thu AM 10:28:47 CDT >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails >Yesterday I had 102 e-mails about everyone's Dutch ancestry- today- there >were 50. While it was veryinteresting for the most part, >enough of it. Marion > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message