Hi all- well, I have been chastised and informed. I was just making a comment-I did not mean to inply that I did not read the e-mails-I did read them, and I have gotten information on my Dutch line- but I was just saying---- Sorry if I made anyone think differently. Marion ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

It is important to distinguish between long standing stereotypes of the Dutch and changing social and historical realities. Yes, the Dutch were sensible, hard-working and thrifty because they were fighting with the North Sea to preserve their land. It is not that the Dutch spend less (go to a restaurant in Amsterdam and you'll see what I mean, or look at some of the jewelry or antique stores in Amsterdam as well), they just are not ostentatious with their wealth (which is considerable). And the Dutch were historically absolute models of religious tolerance -- long before the Pilgrims sought refuge there, many of the Jews driven out of Spain in 1492 settled in Amsterdam (and Hamburg, and Istanbul). I live very close to Holland, in Munster (Westfalen), and so have contacts on an almost daily basis with Dutch people, who are actually, above all, fun-loving and lots of fun (even if they like this really sweetish honey cake for breakfast). During the last Soccer World Cup, everybody loved the Dutch fans, painted in orange. They were silly and sweet. Great fun. Historically Holland has been drawn toward France to the south, Germany to the west and England across the Channel. Erasmus, the great humanist, once wrote that he could be "French" or maybe "German" but certainly not a "Batavian" (the word which Dutch Renaissance humanists re-introduced to call themselves, based on the name of a Germanic tribe which disappeared in the 4th century A..D.). It's not easy being Dutch, and the Reformed Church, while tolerant toward others, has historically been rather austere. By the same token, Dutch Catholics have always inspired dread in more conservative quarters of the Catholic church. And yes, at the same time, please remember, there are some dark sides to Dutch history which any Dutch person will admit to. The Dutch had a vast colonial empire and made few friends in the Dutch East Indies. Much of Holland's considerable wealth depended not only on trade but on the colonial system which favored the mother country. The Dutch sent the largest number of SS volunteers to the Eastern Front and many Dutch did well and truly collaborate with the Nazis. (For example, there is a new exhibition here in Muenster, which is where the independence of the original Republic of the United Provinces was declared, whence its special place in Dutch history, devoted to the children of Dutch collaborators and how they were marked in postwar Dutch society.) And last but not least, the Dutch tolerance of recreational drugs -- and the connection between Surinam and Amsterdam making drug smuggling from South America to all of Europe very easy -- is not exactly something many people in Holland are particularly proud of. And in the last few years, every Dutch tolerance has been recently tested to the limit with a number of political murders and the torching of some mosques. So, well, being Dutch is not always easy. But hey, is being a part of any national community easy? Cheers, Jeff Richards Muenster, Germany -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ALarue3325@aol.com Sent: Donnerstag, 22. März 2007 23:45 To: Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] (no subject) The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. They are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, tactless or refreshing. Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a chance to practically economize, they will. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Opps, I meant Dear Judy, not James! Elsie At 10:40 AM 3/23/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Clearification: At the Delaware Valley Water Gap area, the travelers >crossed back from PA over to New Jersey and then traveled up to Port >Jervis and the >Old Mine Road. > >Judy > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Dear James, Thanks so much for this information. I read that soon after the Rev. War, John Cranmer walked from Morris Co. NJ to where Monroeton, near Tawanda, Bradford Co. PA and he must have gone that exact route. He cleared some land and planted a crop. Then he walked back to Morris Co. NJ. Along the way, he lost a shoe in a creek and had to walk the rest of the way back without a shoe. He had his foot full of thorns that had to be removed after he arrived home. The next year, his parents: Noadiah Cranmer and Catherine Haines/Haynes, his brother Stephen Cranmer and wife, Nancy ___, made the journey to Bradford Co. PA to settle. Probably those who started further inland in NJ and closer to the PA border made the migration via land up the Delaware etc. and those living closer to the shore in Monmouth, Middlesex etc. went the boat way to Albany and over. Jonas Guerin and his wife, Nancy Ann Ehle, left Morris Co. NJ in 1812 to go to Romulus, Seneca Co. NY and his cousin Mahlon Guerin was already there. I would guess they went the Delaware River way. The Guerins were blacksmiths and wagon makers, so my guess they would want to go over land. Interesting! Elsie At 10:36 AM 3/23/2007 -0400, you wrote: >While researching the Dorland book as many members of this and related >families did go from Morris Co, Somerset County New >Jersey etc.,Northampton Co >PA, as well as areas of New York up to the fingerlakes and then west over to >near Lake Erie, I discovered that they headed north on the trail up the >NJ side >of the Delaware River, then some crossed over around Easten PA and headed up >the Pa side of the Delaware River on that side before recrossing back over >into N.J. Most areas of the Delaware River are simply too shallow and rocky >for boat travel which is why the canal system existed in later years. At the >Delaware Valley Water Gap, travelers crossed back over to Port Jervis and >the >Old Mine Road, where Wayne and Pike Co's PA, Warren and Sussex NJ and Orange >and Sullivan NY. The Old Mine Road was believed to have been the first 100 >mile road built in American and begun by the Dutch as early as the 1600's. >There is an excellent map in C.G. Hine, History and Legend Fact, Fancy and >Romance of the Old Mine Road, Kingston, N.Y. to the Mine Holes of >Pahaquarry, >19008, and the Minisink Valley Historical Society, P.O. Box 659, Port >Jervis, NY >12772 has additional information.There was a lot of family traffic, both to >the fingerlakes region and then returning back to New Jersey, so once they >got there, they did not always remain, many returned back to N.J. or simply >traveled back and forth between locations. The Old Mine Roads still >exists and >if you do a Google Search you will find that there are many good articles on >this topic. > >Judy Cassidy > Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Dutch names are harder:-) Thought I knew about patronymics and dit names (my husband's French Canadians) What I seem to know is equivalent to my sticking one toe in the swimming pool before jumping in. Barbara Southern California At 08:51 AM 3/23/07, you wrote: >Thanks for the tip. Dutch history is not at all easy to grasp. > >-----Original Message----- >From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Agnes Mitchell >Sent: Freitag, 23. März 2007 16:56 >To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] stereotypes about the Dutch

Liz, You have it exacxtly right. The existing lists are only of people who owed the WIC money for their passage, or who were employees of the company and their passage was an internal company expense. Most people had to pay up front for their passage, and so are not listed. Unfortunately, there are no archives in the Netherlands to check. Long ago some overeager workers got into the wrong part of a warehouse and all the WIC records pertaining to New Netherland ended up as pulp at a paper mill. The surviving records concern the company's colony in Brazil. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "E Johnson" <iris.gates@gmail.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who paid for passage? > Did Terry mean that someone (not the Company but an individual) had paid > the > passage of certain persons, who then must be paid back through the > person's > work or earnings once they arrived here? Such as, an individual here who > hired someone from the Netherlands to come work. > > Also, I just wanted to comment that there may be many persons whose names > do > not appear on lists here, because they would have paid their passage up > front, just as we do today. Those names may exist on lists buried in > archives or family memorabilia in the Netherlands, or may be long-gone by > now. But clearly the ships lists that exist or have been reconstucted from > records don't account for the number of individuals here in the NN > colonies. > > Liz J > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Leslie, Thank you so much. Frank On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:13:12 -0400 "Leslie B. Potter" <lbpotter@comcast.net> writes: > Hi Frank, > > The taxpayers with the surname of Griggs, who lived in the Half Moon > Tax > District were: > > Widow - Half Moon, 1786 > Abraham - Half Moon, 1779 > Alexander - Half Moon, 1779, 1786 & 1788 > Edward - Half Moom, 1779 > John - Half Moon, 1779 > Simeon - Half Moon, 1786 and > Simon - Half Moon, 1788 > > When I looked more closely at the tax lists, I discovered that there > were > not taxpayers by the name of Griggs living in the Ballstown Tax > District of > Albany County, NY. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank L Griggs" <frankgriggs@juno.com> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] How I discovered I have Dutch > ancestry > > > > Hi Leslie, > > > > Although I did not make the original post on the Griggses of Half > Moon, I > > would very much like to see a list of "the names of the taxpayers > with > > the surname of Griggs, who resided in the Half Moon and Ballstown > Tax > > Districts of Albany County, NY between 1779 and 1789." > > > > Many thanks for your trouble, Frank > > > > > > On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:14:02 -0400 "Leslie B. Potter" > > <lbpotter@comcast.net> writes: > >> I am sorry, but I missed the beginning of this thread. However, > I > >> will be > >> happy to provide you with the names of the taxpayers with the > >> surname of > >> Griggs, who resided in the Half Moon and Ballstown Tax Districts > of > >> Albany > >> County, NY between 1779 and 1789 should that information be of > any > >> use to > >> you. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> Leslie > >> Glen Mills, PA > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello, I would like to know if anyone is researching or interested in Nicholas Brouwer/Brower/Brewer b. 1714 NJ, who lived at Wappingers Falls, Dutchess Co NY. He arrived from NJ to live in Wappingers Falls in about 1742, originally with his father and his father's family, but his father died suddenly in 1742, and so he and his siblings lived there on their inherited lands, after their father's death in 1742. His ancestry is this: 1. Adam Brouwer b. 1620, m. Magdalena Verdon, d/o Jacob. 2. Nicholas Brouwer, m. Jannetje Colyer, d/o Jeuriean. 3. Adolphus Brouwer, m. Jannetje Verdon, d/o Jacob. 4. Nicholas Brouwer b. 1714, m. Maria Dutcher, m. secondly Sarah Drake. Nicholas Brouwer used the spelling of Brower, however clerks sometimes used the BREWER spelling on records. He operated his father's Mill on Wappingers Falls (Wappingers Creek) in the area now called Fishkill, Dutchess Co NY. He died 1778, leaving a wife Sarah Drake and children. His children with his first wife Maria Dutcher are: Jannetje Brower , m. William Conklin; Nicholas Brower b. 1747 m. Mary Birdsall (he was a Capt. in Rev War); David Brower b. 1750 m. Sara Briggs; Elizabeth Brower b. 1758; Maria Brower b. 1761. His children with his second wife are: Sarah Brower b. 1771; Cornelia Brower b. 1775; William Brower; Jeremiah Brower ; Jacob Brower b. 1772 m. Abigail Manning ; Catherine Brower; Helena Brower m. Joshua Manning. When Nicholas Brower died in 1778, his widow Sarah Drake Brower remarried to Stephen Callow, a furniture dealer, and they lived in Clinton, Dutchess Co NY. Their next door neighbors were the many Manning families of Clinton. The younger children of Nicholas Brower were raised by their step-father Stephen Callow in Clinton, NY. Fishkill and Clinton are not very far apart in distance. I would like to hear from anyone who has information on the children of Nicholas Brower, from both wives, and anyone connected to this family group. I am trying to gather the children and grandchildren of Nicholas Brower b. 1714 NJ. Best regards, Lilly Martin

I have been researching a group of NJ residents that migrated from Monmouth and Middlesex Co. NJ to area of Seneca Co. and Wayne Co. NY right around 1800. They were Dutch and Scots and English. The families of John Buys and Samuel Gordon and Israel Brown are the ones I am directly working on, but many more went at that time from NJ, including Cranmers from Morris Co. and Guerins from Morris Co. NJ. Since I knew my Cranmers: Noadiah Cranmer and sons: John and Stephen, walked over the mountains and up valleys to what is now Bradford Co. PA. Others went that way and on up into what is Steuben Co. NY. Well, I found mention of another route into the Finger Lakes area of NY, mentioned in a local history of Seneca Co. NY: They went up the Hudson on a boat to Albany and then over the Mohawk River valley. If your family went from NJ in the flood of NJ families that made that move after the Rev. War, they might have gone the "river" route instead of directly up from NJ through PA to NY. Elsie Wilson BUYS, GORDON, CRAIG, GUERIN, CRANMER and many more! :-) Elsie H. Wilson 5620 Harris Cir. Fitchburg, WI 53575 (608) 835-6791 ehwilson@charter.net

Of course as a generalized statement what you say is true. However, in the same token we would be pretending if we did not recognize that certain groups within a distribution of a natural population exhibit propensities toward certain sociological behaviors. It is the deeming of that social behavior as "good" or bad" that is a moral ill. But there is nothing wrong with noticing that in general Hollanders have developed certain cultural norms and that those social norms do tend to display certain characteristics shared by a large majority of that natural population. Nothing of what I said, can, or should be taken as painting a group with a broad brush or that Hollanders are better than others because of those traits shared by a majority of that group. Having said that I am sure that the teacher wants to have each student be proud of their heritage and to know and learn something of that group. She probably also wants to point out that when you measure all people together they mostly share the same traits to some degree or another. Having said all this I am proud of being a Hollander and my people are noted for their great contributions to humanity like the arts and in business. And yes, they do have social norms that is somewhat different than other groups and yes, those propensities toward those behaviors have made them great and the Dutch are disproportionally and positively represented for their contributions toward civilization being they are so few and such a small country. Edward Otte -----Original Message----- From: dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dutch-colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Christoph Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:55 PM To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Qualities & Traits of the Dutch Saying that all Netherlanders have the same characteristics is no different than the Klan saying all blacks are the same. There are good Dutchmen and bad ones, saints and devils, hard workers and loafers, churchgoers and atheists, misers and spendthrifts. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Qualities & Traits of the Dutch > In my humble opinion, (maybe I am too direct) Dutch people are all of what > you said below. But there are reasons for that thinking. Holland is a > small > country. There is a saying God created the heavens and the earth and the > Dutch created the Netherlands. Land is a premium and the economy depends > on > mercantilism. The Dutch invented the stock market. Business is very much a > way of life. Trading and bartering is very much a sociological norm for > the > Dutch by necessity. The Dutch are a hardy people. The old diet was bread, > beer, and fish! > > But beyond this something I have always noticed about Hollanders. They > blend > in. Where ever they go they blend in. People often point out that say > Japanese are "buying" up America but they never notice the Dutch quietly > going about their business, which is business. A factoid is besides the > British the Dutch own more real estate and businesses in America than > anyone > else, and you would never know it. This is why the Dutch, in general had > pretty good relationships with Native Americans. They wanted trade and > they > did not want anything to hurt that trade. > > Also the Dutch have been big liberals for centuries. Because they accepted > other Europeans and other religions, including Judaism, they attracted > wealth and other cultures that have made them a great nation. Like America > that diversity has given strength while the other European nations are > trying to catch up. The European Union is just a mock up of the Benelux > trade agreement between all of the Low Countries. Ah yes, the Dutch are > often overlooked but their effect has not been. > > Ed, proud to be a Nederlander! > > Sorry...my email was sent before I finished it. > > My granddaughter has a school paper to do...she can use some help! > > The assignment is... > > Discuss in the paper the information gathered detailing the > characteristics > > of your particular ethnic background which conform you or do not conform > to > the commonly held ideas. This should be as personal as possible to enable > the > paper to be revealing. (5-6 pages) > > Everyone is a consequence of their ancestral origins. Genetically, and > through association, you have become reflections of them. The discovery of > these > origins enables you to identify ethnic groups that have influenced your > development. An understanding of these ethnicities become valuable tools > for > self- > realization. Family values, attitudes concerning life and even the > celebration of holidays can be associated with your familial beginnings. > > She is going to compare and contrast them with what qualities, values, and > traditions we have. > > I am assuming we are part Dutch...I am a direct descendant from Cornelius > Melyn and John Winans. > > > This is all I could find on the net about Dutch qualities. > > The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. > hey are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, > tactless > or refreshing. > Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical > items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a > chance > to > practically economize, they will. > > Alice La Rue > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Did Terry mean that someone (not the Company but an individual) had paid the passage of certain persons, who then must be paid back through the person's work or earnings once they arrived here? Such as, an individual here who hired someone from the Netherlands to come work. Also, I just wanted to comment that there may be many persons whose names do not appear on lists here, because they would have paid their passage up front, just as we do today. Those names may exist on lists buried in archives or family memorabilia in the Netherlands, or may be long-gone by now. But clearly the ships lists that exist or have been reconstucted from records don't account for the number of individuals here in the NN colonies. Liz J

Pete, Can you give the year that Jan Teunissen was in jail in Delaware. Also, to whom did he apply for work as a soldier? > Riker was right that Jan Theunissen tried to become a solider in Delaware but he missed the man's being in jail there for something (the nature of which is not clear). I'd like to chase that a little bit and see where it leads. Penna Archives might have something but I could use a few more details. Thank you, Liz J

Thanks for your insight, Nancy. It sounds like a common attribute of your family's and mine is "cement feet". While the original Cockefair settler had hundreds descendants by my grandfather's day, only six inherited the homestead--precisely the men you would expect to be marrying into other established families of the area. Most of the collateral descendants migrated westward, and my mother is the only Cockefair still in Bloomfield. She, her brother, and her sister all married first-generation Americans--German, English, and Irish. My uncle was killed in WWII, so the homestead passed to my aunt, who passed it to my cousins. They sold it to a developer in 1995, and it was promptly replaced by an apartment building. It also sounds like my grandfather's pedigree was indeed highly collapsed in its seven generations there. I can only imagine what it would have looked like had it gone eleven generations! By the way, his best friend was a Demarest--the mayor of Bloomfield in his day. My grandfather was a councilman. Chris On 3/21/07, nancyterhune@optonline.net <nancyterhune@optonline.net> wrote: > > Chris: > > I believe that the term is "pedigree collapse." Common ancestral lines > repeating; thereby collapsing lines (including the literal ones on your > chart) into one another leading back to the same ancestors. > > No, it is not unusual -- at least not as unusual as you might think. > In fact it's logical: > > If your ancestors were among the first Europeans to settle a geographic > area, such as your Essex County NJ people (also my people), they were > initially of a small pool of families. These families married into each > other by necessity, and sometimes repeatedly over the early > generations. Continuing geographic proximity plus familiarity through > marriage created more intermarriage. Cultural alignment prolonged > intermarriage among the Dutch families in this (northern NJ) area, even as > they decreased to a modest minority. My own parents, married in 1955, were > lineal descendants of two of the oldest families in Bergen County, > NJ: Terhune and Van Blarcom. > > I have often said that my ancestors -- three quarters of them ended up in > Bergen and Essex Counties -- had "feet of cement." Nobody went west, or in > any other direction. In the patrilineal sense, I am 11th generation Bergen > County, and I have many multiple descents. My pedigree is highly collapsed, > with six Terhune descents, three Van Blarcom descents, nine Ackerman > descents, six Bogert descents, four Van Voorhees and Van Winkle descents - > and several others like this - and the Grand Prize winner: ten descents > from David Demarest. Because of this (Demarest) and other repeating common > ancestry, a man I work with, a Demarest, and I are related dozens of times > over. My parents were related many, many times over. Distantly! :-) I am > my own cousin (over and over). I joke that it is amazing there isn't more > that's wrong with me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Schopfer > Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:53 pm > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Tangled Roots (was: How I discovered I have > Dutch ancestry) > To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com > > > I wonder about my own tangled roots, and would be interested to > > hear others' > > thoughts on the subject. > > > > While I have a number of two- and three-line ancestors, my grandfather > > Cockefair (Coquefaire/Kokever/etc.) was descended along four > > lines from > > Thomas Fredericks (Cadmus), and along FIVE lines from each of: > > > > Hendrick Janszen Spier > > Teunis Jansen Pier (son of Jan Teunissen) > > Gerbrant/Garrabrant Claesen (son of Claes Van Schouw) > > Roelof Cornelisssen (Van Houten) > > > > Although not all my lines are perfectly proven, the vast > > majority are pretty > > well documented; I doubt errors have created a wrong picture. > > There are also > > unsolved lines that could show even more overlaps. > > > > If the concentration of my grandfather's genealogy is indeed > > rare, I suspect > > it is due to geography. His line of the Cockefair family lived > > for well over > > two centuries on a homestead at a remote edge of Dutch > > territory, just south > > of the "plain" of Stone House Plains (today, Bloomfield), NJ. To > > the south > > lay English neighborhoods; to the west was a ridge (today, Glen > > Ridge, NJ); > > and to the east was the Yantecaw (Third) River. Points north were > > Dutch. Early farms there were frequently a half mile or so > > apart, so I think > > marital opportunties were comparatively limited. > > > > To what extent are there other "concentrated" Dutch genealogies? > > > > Chris > > > > > > On 3/21/07, ETHELKK@aol.com < ETHELKK@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > I always knew I was Dutch. My maternal grandparents, the Van Wycks, > > > emigrated from Holland in 1864. I knew nothing of my > > > paternal grandparents. When > > > my daughter was expecting her first child, I knew I had to > > give my first > > > grandchild roots and I became hooked on genealogy. What a > > nice surprise > > > to find > > > I have 'New Dutch' and 'Old Dutch'. On my paternal old Dutch > > side, I > > > have > > > about 30 ancestors in New Amsterdam. The next surprise was > > finding I had > > > very > > > tangled roots and was descended from the same ancestor more > > than once. > > > > > > > > > My tangled roots. > > > *I am descended from three sons of Epke Jacobsen Banta, the > > immigrant.> *I am descended from two sons of David J Demarest, > > the immigrant. > > > *I am descended from two daughters of Lubbert Gysbertsen Van > > Blarcom, the > > > immigrant. > > > *I am descended from two sons of David Ackerman, the immigrant. > > > *I am descended from a son and a daughter of Jan Louwe Bogert, > > the > > > immigrant. > > > *I am descended from a son and a daughter of Joost DeBaun, > > the immigrant. > > > > > > *I am descended from a son and a daughter of Jan Tiebout, the > > immigrant.> *I am descended from two daughters of Simon DeRuine, > > the immigrant. > > > *Jannetje Jans married 1) Christiaen Barentsen Van Horn, the > > immigrant> and 2) Laurens Andriessen Van Buskirk, the immigrant, > > and I am descended > > > from a son from both of Jannetje's marriages. > > > > > > Ethel Kay Konight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free > > email to > > > everyone. > > > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > > COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > > and the body > > > of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > > COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Let's celebrate the liveliness and generous spirit of this intelligent, dynamic list - this fantastic resource for us all! Keep 'em coming!!!!!

I have to admit to being puzzled and intrigued about the unpaid passage question - that those who were recorded were those whose passage would be paid on arrival in New Netherlands. My knowledge is pretty much confined to the people recorded aboard 'De Bever' in 1661. Of the families from Beesd, some were certainly capable of paying their way, judging by their standing in the community and evidence of land sales just before leaving. I've yet to establish who might have guaranteed the passage of these particular families and would love to hear some expert opinion! Terry HJ

Saying that all Netherlanders have the same characteristics is no different than the Klan saying all blacks are the same. There are good Dutchmen and bad ones, saints and devils, hard workers and loafers, churchgoers and atheists, misers and spendthrifts. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Otte" <edotte@optonline.net> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Qualities & Traits of the Dutch > In my humble opinion, (maybe I am too direct) Dutch people are all of what > you said below. But there are reasons for that thinking. Holland is a > small > country. There is a saying God created the heavens and the earth and the > Dutch created the Netherlands. Land is a premium and the economy depends > on > mercantilism. The Dutch invented the stock market. Business is very much a > way of life. Trading and bartering is very much a sociological norm for > the > Dutch by necessity. The Dutch are a hardy people. The old diet was bread, > beer, and fish! > > But beyond this something I have always noticed about Hollanders. They > blend > in. Where ever they go they blend in. People often point out that say > Japanese are "buying" up America but they never notice the Dutch quietly > going about their business, which is business. A factoid is besides the > British the Dutch own more real estate and businesses in America than > anyone > else, and you would never know it. This is why the Dutch, in general had > pretty good relationships with Native Americans. They wanted trade and > they > did not want anything to hurt that trade. > > Also the Dutch have been big liberals for centuries. Because they accepted > other Europeans and other religions, including Judaism, they attracted > wealth and other cultures that have made them a great nation. Like America > that diversity has given strength while the other European nations are > trying to catch up. The European Union is just a mock up of the Benelux > trade agreement between all of the Low Countries. Ah yes, the Dutch are > often overlooked but their effect has not been. > > Ed, proud to be a Nederlander! > > Sorry...my email was sent before I finished it. > > My granddaughter has a school paper to do...she can use some help! > > The assignment is... > > Discuss in the paper the information gathered detailing the > characteristics > > of your particular ethnic background which conform you or do not conform > to > the commonly held ideas. This should be as personal as possible to enable > the > paper to be revealing. (5-6 pages) > > Everyone is a consequence of their ancestral origins. Genetically, and > through association, you have become reflections of them. The discovery of > these > origins enables you to identify ethnic groups that have influenced your > development. An understanding of these ethnicities become valuable tools > for > self- > realization. Family values, attitudes concerning life and even the > celebration of holidays can be associated with your familial beginnings. > > She is going to compare and contrast them with what qualities, values, and > traditions we have. > > I am assuming we are part Dutch...I am a direct descendant from Cornelius > Melyn and John Winans. > > > This is all I could find on the net about Dutch qualities. > > The Dutch are seen as sensible, hard-working, and thrifty. > hey are very direct. Depending on your point of view, this is rude, > tactless > or refreshing. > Dutch people spend less, and when they do spend it is on more practical > items than extravagant decorations and status symbols. When given a > chance > to > practically economize, they will. > > Alice La Rue > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There was no one else guaranteeing passage. If your name was on the list, you were the responsible person for your passage. You would pay the company out of your earnings in America. Sort of like buying your ticket with a credit card, and paying for it in installments. ----- Original Message ----- From: "THJ" <tchj@btinternet.com> To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who paid for passage? >I have to admit to being puzzled and intrigued about the unpaid > passage question - that those who were recorded were those whose > passage would be paid on arrival in New Netherlands. > > My knowledge is pretty much confined to the people recorded aboard > 'De Bever' in 1661. Of the families from Beesd, some were certainly > capable of paying their way, judging by their standing in the > community and evidence of land sales just before leaving. I've yet > to establish who might have guaranteed the passage of these > particular families and would love to hear some expert opinion! > > Terry HJ > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, I have enjoyed reading all of the emails and hoping to find a thread to one of my lines. So far, it hasn't happened. I have Burdge in RI in the 1660's/1670's. That is as far back as I have been able to trace them. I would like to find out if they arrived then or came out of Massachusetts. My grandmother was called Dutch within the family, when she got her Dutch up. She and her sister did not speak for 60 some years and died never speaking to each other again. Also, have DeWitt, Van Tassell, Lomerson and possibly a few others. My brick wall is Elisabeth DeWitt m Philip Anthony, 1st, in Sussex Co, NJ. I believe she descends through the family from the Tarreytown area (Fillipsburg Manor?). I have the family going on back, but need proof of her parents. My Cummins(Comyns) may be Haguenot. I do have some Paletines. My ancestors came over in the 1600's/1700's settling throughout New England and New Jersey. My family still resides in NJ. Pat ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Ditto: Had to scramble to read, edit, save or delete, but wouldn't have missed it for the world. Lou VanPelt *************************************************************************8 ----- Original Message ----- From: Agnes Mitchell<mailto:almitch1@earthlink.net> To: dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com<mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails Add my vote to the approval of the recent e-mails.regarding involvement with dutch genealogy. I found it very interesting. This is the most informative message board on the net. tho few have made any connection with my Dutch family, I learn something every day from the discussions. alm > [Original Message] > From: Roland Elliott <rolandelliott@inreach.com<mailto:rolandelliott@inreach.com>> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com<mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com>> > Date: 3/22/2007 6:11:09 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > > Yep,if you are not smart enough to delete you should not be on the internet > and the by-play of the members across the Fruited Plains ocean to ocean we > see and hear from our cousins and further more - - - -- - - --------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <nancyterhune@optonline.net<mailto:nancyterhune@optonline.net>> > To: <dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com<mailto:dutch-colonies@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] So many e-mails > > > Let's celebrate the liveliness and generous spirit of this intelligent, > dynamic list - this fantastic resource for us all! > > Keep 'em coming!!!!! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pam, Thanks very much for the feedback, or should I say, for the rescue. Also thanks for the corrrection about Teunis. I had been looking at these Dushane connections for years & still had this one listed twice. Must have forgot my glasses while doing data entry that night. Last first because it's faster: > I almost hesitate to mention the "other" Egbert family of Albany, but you should at least be aware there was one (Teunis Teuniszen de Metselaer and wife Egbertje Egbertse). I think they're not part of the New Castle County crowd. Here is one I hesitate to mention: There was also a Barent Egberts(en), from Schuttdorp in Benthem (Dutch, near the current border with Belgium), who had a town lot in New Castle. He was married on 15 November 1657, New Amsterdam, to Aechtje Alberts of Embderlandt. He moved to Delaware after the English takeover; this group was enumerated in Wharton's 1671 census of the Delaware and was dead before 1677. They were said to have three daughters, Abiah, Anna and Henrietta, before Aechtje died and Barent married again to Rebecca ___ (who??). I don't see bapts for these three daughters in New Amsterdam, but did find a Tryntie bp. to them there in 1658. In New Castle, Barent died; Rebecca married again to Thomas Spry; by 1677 they occupied the Barent property. His will mentions the Barent Egbertson daughters: New Castle, Delaware. Dr. Thomas SPRY. Apr. 6, 1685. Dec. 7, 1685. A:69. Four children, Annesky EGBERT and Abiah EGBERT, and Abraham and daughter Sarah SPRY of Plymouth; my adopted son Joseph BISSE, alias SPRY. John MANDY, Mr. James WILLIAM, Dr. LATWOOP. Exc. James WILLIAMS, John MANDY. Before 1693, Abiah married Jan Gerritsen, son of Gerrit Jansen van Beck, the smith. I don't see any obvious connection to the Egbert Egbert group, who came later to new Castle, and settled not in New Castle town, but further south in the county. For more on the Barent Egberten group, see Peter Stebbin's Craig's "1671 Census of the Delaware." DUSHANE. Here is more, in case anyone needs it or can connect. > Michiel Du Chesne and wife Susanna baptized 3 children at Port Richmond: > Antoni in 1710; Valentine, 21 May 1716; and Cornelius, 9 Oct 1720; and > this family also disappeared from Staten Island records. Yes, at least two other Dushane brothers also moved to Delaware. Michael and Susannah van der Hoeven appear in several baptisms at Port Richmond (Staten Island), between 1710 and 1734. But by 1723 he must have already been established in St Georges Hundred, New Castle County as early as 1723, when he bought land: [NCC land records] G-1:320. Deed. 27 Nov 1723. James & Urian ANDERSON to Michael DUSHANE of St Georges Hundred, yeoman. Wits: John REES & Johannes JACQUETT. Rec: 31 Aug 1724. Jerome Dushane also buys land in 1723, also from another ANDERSON, maybe same as the others above: 18 Feb 1723 Deed from James ANDERSON of St George's Creek, yeoman, & Sarah, his wife, to Jerome DUSHEIN, yeoman. Rec" 11 Mar 1723/4. (G-1:297) The other two Dushane brothers, Garret and Valentine, also probably moved to Delaware. Garret, son of Garret Dushane and Elizabeth Lamoreux, bp 21 January 1708 - New York Dutch Reform Church, died in Kent County Delaware in 1788, leaving a wife, Mary __. I need wife's name here. This Garret DuShane is probably the one who was an elder of Old Drawyer's Church in 1746. Elders that year were: Garrett DuShane, David Witherspoon [husband of Hester van Bebber, stepmother of Rachel Peterson DuShane --whose first husband had been Andrew Peterson)], James McCoomb, Garrett Rothwell, Cornelius King [marr. to Annetje (Leendertse) Vandegrift, aunt and uncle of the Kings of Lackford Hall], Joseph Hill, James Anderson and James Vance. Valentine DuShane died 2 March 1735 - St. George's Hundred, Newcastle Co., Del; [NC Co Deed N 222 June 19,1741-- David Stewart yeoman purchases the land 140 acres from Valentine DuShane and Isaac DuShane-- sons and executors of Valentine DuShane (will recorded March 2, 1735/6) of St Georges Hundred Yeoman Deceased --for the sum of one hundred and eighty pounds.] It adjoined the land on which David lived and a tract called Chesley, belonging to John and Joseph Ashton and extended from the shore of Delaware river to the mouth of Little St George's creek. EGBERTS again. Back to Egbert Egbert children. Another land record in New Castle county. There were several changes of hands of the land after the division following the death of Egbert Egberts. This record here might help others: Mortgage. 9 Dec 1768. Robert Watt, shoemaker, and Mary his wife, of Redlyon Hun. in Co. of New Castle, in consideration of the sum of 259 pounds grant unto William Kirkpatrick of Amwell in Co. of Hunterdon in Province of New Jersey, clerk, three parcels of land herein described. This is whereas Egbert Egbertson, late of New Castle Co., dec'd., in his lifetime was seized of a plantation tract of land which he purchased of Andrew Jubart by Deed, dated 16 Aug 1734. Then sd Egbertson died Intestate leaving five children (viz) Abraham, Isaac, Catharine and John Egbertson and Susannah, the wife of Nicholas Belveal; they received an Order of Orphans Court, dated 16 April 1745, to divide sd land. Share of 24 acres devised to sd John Egbertson was sold by his Deed Poll, dated Feb 1751/2, unto Francis Anderson. Then sd Anderson and Margaret his wife, by their Deed Poll dated 27 May 1754, granted same to afsd Robert Watt. Land is situate in Redlyon Hun. and bounds the lands of sd Catharine Egbertson, William Piper, dec'd. and Andrew Jubart. Then Andrew Daly, who intermarried with sd Catharine, by their Deed dated 17 Feb 1754, grant their share of 22 acres unto afsd Robert Watt. It bounded the lands of Adrian LaForge and Francis Anderson. Then Andrew Jubart and Sarah his wife, by their Deed dated 15 May 1744, granted a parcel of land situate in the Town of St.Georges on St.Georges Creek, bounding land of Cornelius Dushane, unto sd Watt. Terms are sd Watts to pay sum of 240 pounds on 7 Feb 1773 w/interest, agreeable with settlement made between sd Watt, Executor of the Estate of William Piper, dec'd., and William Kirkpatrick and his wife Margaret. Signed: Robert Watt, Mary Watt (mark). Wit: Samuel Floyd, John Anderson. 8 Dec 1769 'Rec'd 21 pounds 14 shilling 3 pence, part of Mortgage'. Rec: 25 Sept 1769. (Y1-665) I would love to get a handle on the correct Anderson family. Because of the many Swedish and Finnish people in this area, it's hard, but it's in the works. > I have found nothing further on the brothers of Egbert, namely Johannes > and Isaac on Staten Island, but mentioned in the will of Teunis > Egbertsen. Many members of this greater Egbert family removed to New > Jersey and lived in either Bergen, Essex, Monmouth, Somerset, Hunterdon > or Middlesex Counties Thanks. I am starting to think it was only Egbet's family in Delaware. Apprectate the effort. Well now. Maybe someone will find something of interest in the records above. I am always happy to hear from anyone who is interested. Hopefully I can come back in a while and post more about this family. For now, if anyone connects in here, please do let me know. Thanks again, Liz J