Evangelical Lutheran - some belonging to French Reformed are known to interchange with Ev. Lutheran, even in Germany German Reformed is no where closer to Ev. Lutheran at all. They're more of Calvinist (Presbyterian), known now as United Brethren Church in USA Old Order Catholic - now affiliated with Presbyterian. Dutch Reformed is easily interchangeable with Presbyterian. W. David Samuelsen

Sorry to pop that balloon information. Here's the description of the microfilmed records: Kerkelijke registers, 1590-1865 Authors Evangelisch Lutherse Kerk. Nieuwe Kerk (Amsterdam, Noord-Holland) (Main Author) Notes Microfilm genomen van de originele in het Gemeente Archief te Amsterdam.Parish registers of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, Nieuwe Kerk parish, of Amsterdam, North Holland, The Netherlands. Includes baptisms, marriages, burials, extracts of wills and transfer of graves. Pamela J. Sears wrote: > David, > > In reply to your previous: > >> Pamela J. Sears wrote: >>> Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, >>> >>> I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as >>> "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." >>> >>> Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the >>> Nieuwe kerk: >>> >>> Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka >>> Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 >> Nieuwe Kerk is Evangelical Lutheran Church in Amsterdam. Obvious this >> family isn't Dutch or Walloon. > > > The Nieuwe kerk in Amsterdam is _NOT_ Evangelical Lutheran. > > Rather, it is indeed Reformed, and the religious affiliation [Hervormd] > is listed in the baptismal record above mentioned: > > Religie: Hervormd, Nieuwe kerk > > > This record can be found at the following URL: > > http://gemeentearchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/genealogie/doopregisters/index.nl.html > > Click on "Zoek" to access the database search engine. > > > Regards, > Pam Sears > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

sorry to pop that information balloon. Here is the description of the record Kerkelijke registers, 1590-1865 Authors Evangelisch Lutherse Kerk. Nieuwe Kerk (Amsterdam, Noord-Holland) (Main Author) Notes Microfilm genomen van de originele in het Gemeente Archief te Amsterdam.Parish registers of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, Nieuwe Kerk parish, of Amsterdam, North Holland, The Netherlands. Includes baptisms, marriages, burials, extracts of wills and transfer of graves. W. David Samuelsen Peter Christoph wrote: > The Nieuwe Kerk is NOT Lutheran. It is Reformed. It is where Kiliaen van > Rensselaer's funeral was conducted. At that time there were two Reformed > sancuaries in Amsterdam, called by the practical Dutch the old church (Oude > Kerk) and the new church (Niewe Kerk). I can't remember ever having seen the > Lutheran church of that time called anything other than the Lutheran church > (Luderse Kerk). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> > To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Fredrick Lubbertszen's two wives > > >> David, >> >> In reply to your previous: >> >>> Pamela J. Sears wrote: >>>> Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, >>>> >>>> I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as >>>> "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." >>>> >>>> Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the >>>> Nieuwe kerk: >>>> >>>> Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka >>>> Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 >>> Nieuwe Kerk is Evangelical Lutheran Church in Amsterdam. Obvious this >>> family isn't Dutch or Walloon. >> >> The Nieuwe kerk in Amsterdam is _NOT_ Evangelical Lutheran. >> >> Rather, it is indeed Reformed, and the religious affiliation [Hervormd] >> is listed in the baptismal record above mentioned: >> >> Religie: Hervormd, Nieuwe kerk >> >> >> This record can be found at the following URL: >> >> http://gemeentearchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/genealogie/doopregisters/index.nl.html >> >> Click on "Zoek" to access the database search engine. >> >> >> Regards, >> Pam Sears >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Nieuwe Kerk is NOT Lutheran. It is Reformed. It is where Kiliaen van Rensselaer's funeral was conducted. At that time there were two Reformed sancuaries in Amsterdam, called by the practical Dutch the old church (Oude Kerk) and the new church (Niewe Kerk). I can't remember ever having seen the Lutheran church of that time called anything other than the Lutheran church (Luderse Kerk). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamela J. Sears" <pjsears@stratos.net> To: <Dutch-Colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Fredrick Lubbertszen's two wives > David, > > In reply to your previous: > >> Pamela J. Sears wrote: >>> Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, >>> >>> I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as >>> "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." >>> >>> Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the >>> Nieuwe kerk: >>> >>> Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka >>> Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 >> >> Nieuwe Kerk is Evangelical Lutheran Church in Amsterdam. Obvious this >> family isn't Dutch or Walloon. > > > The Nieuwe kerk in Amsterdam is _NOT_ Evangelical Lutheran. > > Rather, it is indeed Reformed, and the religious affiliation [Hervormd] > is listed in the baptismal record above mentioned: > > Religie: Hervormd, Nieuwe kerk > > > This record can be found at the following URL: > > http://gemeentearchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/genealogie/doopregisters/index.nl.html > > Click on "Zoek" to access the database search engine. > > > Regards, > Pam Sears > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Recently I was at the PA State Archives and they have placed several of their records on line for easy access: Their address is: _www.phmc.state.pa.us_ (http://www.phmc.state.pa.us) This is actually the PA Museum Commission site that will come up. If you click on Research, and then Land Records, you can pull up both the Warrent Register and the Patent Index's. While they can be accessed alphabetically, they are listed as they were entered by date, so are not in alphabetical order. Sounds some what confusing but this is what I was told and I can see that is how they did it. All counties are listed. So if you want Fayette Co, when you click on that, the D's for Instance and the pages they are on are clickable, but on any particular page, the D's are not listed alphabetically but by entry date. Also under genealogy, you will find, Military and other Records listed by War's. This is a "slow" site, so you might have to wait between your click for information and the time the records actually appear on the screen. Hope this is helpful. Judy ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

David, In reply to your previous: > Pamela J. Sears wrote: >> Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, >> >> I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as >> "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." >> >> Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the >> Nieuwe kerk: >> >> Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka >> Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 > > Nieuwe Kerk is Evangelical Lutheran Church in Amsterdam. Obvious this > family isn't Dutch or Walloon. The Nieuwe kerk in Amsterdam is _NOT_ Evangelical Lutheran. Rather, it is indeed Reformed, and the religious affiliation [Hervormd] is listed in the baptismal record above mentioned: Religie: Hervormd, Nieuwe kerk This record can be found at the following URL: http://gemeentearchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/genealogie/doopregisters/index.nl.html Click on "Zoek" to access the database search engine. Regards, Pam Sears

dsam@sampubco.com wrote: I researched and found some information - Walloons Kerk records of Leiden and also St. Waast and Valenciennes: Do you have a link for Walloons Kerk records? I am looking for Sebastiaen van Kortrijk. Jean JeanBoute@Yahoo.Com

Pamela J. Sears wrote: > Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, > > I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as > "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." > > Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the > Nieuwe kerk: > > Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka > Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 Nieuwe Kerk is Evangelical Lutheran Church in Amsterdam. Obvious this family isn't Dutch or Walloon.

Pam & all > I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as > "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." That has puzzled me also. I wonder if perhaps Stijntje has been called by her father's first name and possibly also by her father's surname. If Stijntje was the daughter of a "Jan Hendricksz" then this might explain the confusion. I can recall at least one other instance in which a woman's surname has been variously listed by her patronymic name and by her faher's patronymic name: Susannah, daughter of Gillis Jans, wife of Nicolaes Varlet, has been known as "Susannah Jans" and "Susannah Gilles." In their marriage intentions, she's "Susannah Jans" "6 Sep 1647 Nicolaes Verlet, Utrecht, 25 yr, asst by his father Casper Verlet, res. Brughstraet; & Susanna Jans, Amsterdam, 20 yr, no par., asst guardian Gerrit Klerq, aunt Jannetie Claes, lv the Ness" [translation ...I probably made the abbreviations so it would fit into a space in my database]. After Susannah died, in record of Nicolaes Varlet's second marriage in October 1656, he is called widower of "Susannah Jillis": "14 dicto. Nicolaes Verlet, Wedr Van Susanna Jillis, en Anna Stuyvesants, Wede Van Samuel Bayarts." [from Brassarts online transcription] In the Amsterdam doopregister index, even male's names occasionally come up with a confusing surname wherein their father's first and last names are both recorded as a sort of dual surname, I guess you would call it. Fortunately in that index, they usually have a comma in the appropriate place. This might not help solve the problem of who Stijntje, wife of Frerick Lubbertsz was, but at least might help explain the confusion of surnames found at various times for her. Best wishes, Liz J

Dear David, Dorothy and Cynthia, I'm puzzled by the fact that in some records Stijntje is recorded as "Stijntje Jans" and in others, "Stijntje Hendricks." Rebecca Fredericks was baptized in Amsterdam on 15 Aug 1628 at the Nieuwe kerk: Vader: Frerick Lubbertsz Moeder: Stijntje Jans Kind: Rebecka Baptized 15 Aug 1628 in the Nieuwe kerk; DTB 40/465 Her widower called her Stijntje Jans in his marriage record to Trijntje Hendricks in 1657 in the New Amsterdam Reformed Dutch Church. Sonder datum; Fredrick Lubbertszen, Wed'r Van Styntje Jans, en Tryntje Hendricks, Wed'e Van Cors. Pieterszen. The marriage did not take place until _after_ 19 Sep 1657, according to the Minutes of the Orphanmasters, where she is indeed called Styntje Hendrickse: > [Minutes of the Orphanmasters of New Amsterdam, 1655-1663; edited by > Berthold Fernow; Vol. I, pp 37-41] Dated 16 Sep 1657; Tryntje > Hendrickse, widow of Cors Pieterszen, intends to become the wife of > Frederick Lubbertszen, widower of Styntje Hendrickse, and wishes > before remarriage to settle upon said children their paternal > inheritance <snip>. Therefore the orphanmasters commission as > guardians Pieter Stoutenburgh and Jurriaen Blanck, Burghers and > inhabitants here, to inventory or appraise the estate, in order to > satisfy the inheritance of the children. On the 19 Sep 1657, the > settlement of the paternal estate was presented by Tryntje > Hendrickse, widow of Cors Pieterson, assisted by Frederick > Lubbertszen, her present fiance and chosen guardian, parties of the > first part, and Sieur Pieter Stoutenburgh and Jurriaen Blanck, > guardians of the three children, to wit: Cornelius Corssen, 12 > years old, Pieter 6 years and Hendrick, 3 years. She promised to > bring up her 3 children as best she could, to teach them reading > and writing and a good trade or occupation, and to settle upon them > 600 florins each; as well as clothing and other goods; the house > is then described as being at the North side of Pearl Street, > bounded on the south by said street, on the west by Isaac > Grevenaad, on the north by Fort Amsterdam, and on the east by > Pieter van Couwenhoven. Signed by Tryntje Hendricks, Frederick > Lubbertsen, Pieter Stoutenburg, Jurriaan Blanck; witnesses by Carel > van Brugge, testis, and Hans Kierstede; notary public Dirck van > Schelluyne Teunis Bergen played it safe in his "Early Settlers:" Register of the Early Settlers of Kings County, Long Island NY p 194 Frederick, (or "Frerick Lubbertsen," as written by himself,) b. 1609; m. 1st Styntje (???); m. 2d, Aug. 17, 1657, Tryntje Hendricks wid. of Cornelis Pietersen (Vroom). - Orville Corson, THREE HUNDRED YEARS WITH THE CORSON FAMILIES IN AMERICA (1939), v.1, pp.33-34. Frederick LUBBERTSEN and his first wife, Styntje HENDRICKSE <snip> It would appear that J. H. Innis was noncommittal as well: According to New Amsterdam and Its People by J. H. Innes, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1902, "Frederick was born in circa 1603 and came from Amsterdam, NL, with his wife Styntje and a daughter Rebecca." Regards, Pam Sears

I researched and found some information - Walloons Kerk records of Leiden and also St. Waast and Valenciennes W. David Samuelsen wrote: > What is already known..... > > 1. Maria > abt 1608, St. Waast-la-Haut, France no proof she was born there. No Vigne or any variant to that time period. > 2. Christine > 1610, St. Waast-la-Haut, France no proof, same as #1 above > 3. Abraham > christened 26 Dec 1621, Leiden, Nederlands confirmed > 4. Rachel > 16 Mar 1622/3, Leiden, Nederlands witnesses - Henri Lambert and Pierre de Fache and wife Marguerite Vigne confirmed > 5. Jan > 1624, Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands > > You can see there is a sizable gap between #2 and #3 > I found some more > Rachel > christened 2 Sep 1618, Leiden, Nederlands died Oct 1618, Leiden confirmed > Abraham VINOIS > christened 22 Sep 1619, Leiden, Nederlands > Sara VINOIS > christened 22 Sep 1619, Leiden, Nederlands confirmed - twins died Paques 1622 > bring to a total of 8 children > > and I am puzzled about this 9th child > Guleyn > born 1625, Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands > > Can anyone confirm this 9th child? > > Back to the Vinois - I found them by accident listed under this name and > did some checking on the surname Vinois - they are more plentiful in > Nord-Pas-de-Calais and Meuse regions - they're next door to each other > and just south of what is now Belgium's Walloon Region. > > This opened another avenue to check out the records in the area, instead > of being limited to Valenciennes. Leiden records mentioned lots of Cuveliers, not Vigne (no de la Vigne as claimed). This has me wondering if Adrienne met Guillaume Vigne elsewhere and had two children before moving to Leiden? I already searched the Walloon/Huguenot master card index which covered several churches throughout Germany, Belgium, France and Nederlands as well as Switzerland and England. Could the couple have married in Roman Catholic church somewhere between Valenciennes and Leiden and converted to French Reformed (Walloon/Huguenot)? There are plenty of Vignier, Vigne, Vinois in the area between Belgium and Valenciennes (Meuse region and Nord-Pas-de-Calais). I did find two interesting items, one already mentioned above - Marguerite Vigne, probably sister of Guillaume. Is Isaac younger brother? Isaac and Jeanne Perponcher married 17 Jun 1629 at Flessingue (aka Vlissingen in Dutch, or Flushing in English, hence the city named Flushing in Queens co., New York), not far from Middleburg, also known place of the Vigne's. W. David Samuelsen

Dear Hugh, As a follow-up to my previous, I can offer the following records. On your list of Poillon descendants, you include: 5. Richard POILLON (1786-1854) m.Anna VALENTINE The date of death you show for Richard Poillon (1854) in in error, and is actually the date of death for Anna Valentine. They are both buried in St Andrews Churchyard, and the records are as follows: Davis, William T. The Church of St. Andrew, Richmond, Staten Island: its history, vital records and gravestone inscriptions; Staten Island, N.Y.: Published under the auspices of the Staten Island Historical Society by W.T. Davis, 1925, p 232 Record #648 Richard Poillon, / died / August 6, 1849 / Aged / 63 years 9 months & 12 days. / Record #647. Anna, / wife of / Richard Poillon; / died / April 23, 1854 / Aged / 82 years, 5 months / and 21 days. / Thus, unless there is a transcription error, it appears that Anna Valentine (1771-1854) was some 15 years older than her husband. I have been unable to identify her parents, or even that indeed she was a Valentine. Regards, Pam Sears

Dear Hugh, You wrote: > As I now have my POILLON Line: > > 1. Jacques POILLON (1646-b ef 1720) m. Andriana CROCHERON > 2. Jacques POILLON (1681-c1723) m1. Franciose BILLIOU, m2. Judith BODINE > 3. John POILLON (1723-1802) m.Margaret PERRINE > 4. John POILLON, Jr. (1753-Unk) m. Jane COURSEN > 5. Richard POILLON (1786-1854) m.Anna VALENTINE > 6. Richard POILLON (1817-1891) m1. Unk, m2. Mary Whitmore BUCK > 7. Richard Henry POILLON (1846-1925) m.Julia Ingersol MIZNER > 8. Mary Howard POILLON (1876-1969) m. Samuel Charles GURNEY > END > > This POILLON family grew to prominence in the ship building trade. In its > prime it build clipper ships that established world records. > > Of interest to me is- > > 1. the date of death of John POILLON, Jr. (1753-Unk). > > 2. the first wife of Richard POILLON (1817-1891). > 3. the parents of Mary Whitmore BUCK and her date of marriage to Richard > POILLON (1817-1891). > > Any data would be appreciated. > > Best regards, Hugh > I cannot answer all your questions, but I also see that you have contacted Nannette Poillon, who may have further information on the later generations. John Poillon, son of John Poillon and Margaret Perrine, was born 6 June 1753 on Staten Island, and subsequently baptized there 27 March 1757 at St Andrews Church (along with all his siblings on that same date). See: Davis, William T. The Church of St. Andrew, Richmond, Staten Island: its history, vital records and gravestone inscriptions; Staten Island, N.Y.: Published under the auspices of the Staten Island Historical Society by W.T. Davis, 1925, p 78 Record #56. "John Pollion Son of John Pollion & Marget his wife Born ye 6th of June 1753" John Poillon married Jane Corssen, the daughter of Cornelius Corssen of Staten Island and Neeltje Dircks Cadmus of Bergen County, New Jersey. Jane Corssen was born 2 May 1757 (gravestone record). Both John Poillon and his wife are buried in the St Andrews Churchyard, the records of which are also included in the above source [page 228]: Record #619: In memory of / Jane, / wife of / John Poillon, / who departed this life / Nov. 16th, 1836, / aged 79 years 6 months / and 14 days. / Record #620: In memory of / John Poillon sen. / who departed this life / October 26th 1840, / in the 89th year of his age. / Their daughter Eleanor is buried there as well. Record #618: In memory of / Eleanor, / daughter of John and Jane Poillon / who died / Dec. 26th 1838, / Aged 47 years / 11 mo. & 4 ds. / Regards, Pam Sears

In the latest issue of New Netherland Connections, I stated incorrectly that the wife of Pieter de Riemer was Sara Staats. His wife was Susanna de Foreest. Sara Staats was the wife of Pieter's nephew, Isaac Gouverneur. I apologize for the error. David

Reply to: In a message dated 6/7/2007 10:42:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dsam@sampubco.com writes............... David, If you will please, where did you get the 1585 *about* date for Frederick's birth and the parents of first wife Styntje Hendricksen? Are you saying that Styntje and Tryntje were sisters? Tryntje Hendricks had 6 known children bp. in the NA RDC with her first spouse, Cors Pietersen Vroom, 1640 to 1653. Styntje Hendrickse was still alive at least for those first few years but she does not appear as a sponsor for any of them. One would think that if indeed they were sisters she would have been? According to New Amsterdam and Its People by J. H. Innes, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1902, "Frederick was born in circa 1603 and came from Amsterdam, NL, with his wife Styntje and a daughter Rebecca." If this is true, Rebecca could not have been born in Newton, Orange County, New York? Frederick Lubbertszen and second wife, Tryntje Hendrickse, did have at least 2 children, both bp. in the NA RDC: * 1658 Jul 07; Fredrick Lubbertszen, Tryntje Hendricks; Elsje; Elsje Tymens. * 1660 Jul 25; Fredrick Lubbertszen, Tryntie Hendricks; Aeltje; Johannes Pieterszen Van Brug, Jannetie Van Donck, Susanna Vreught. Lastly, is there a source for Rebecca Fredericks Van Der Grift dying in Bensalem, Bucks Co., Pennsylvania? I know that some of her children settled there but have never seen that she did also. TIA, Cynthia In a message dated 6/7/2007 10:42:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dsam@sampubco.com writes: I'm puzzled... two wives with very similiar given and surnames and 30 years apart of marriages. Dorothy? Fredrick Lubbertszen about 1585, Amsterdam, Nederlands married abt 1605 Amsterdam, Nederlands Styntje Hendricksen dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen born about 1585 died? daughter Rebecca Frederickse Lubbertsen born 15 Aug 1628, Newton, Orange county, New York married 19 Jul 1648 Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands (that's New York City) died 1711 Bensalem, Bucks, Pennsylvania wife of Jacob Leendertsen Vandergrift 2nd wife Tryntje Hendricksen born about 1612 married 17 Aug 1657 dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen apparently no children Please help sort this one out. W. David Samuelsen ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

First a word of thanks to Dorothy Koenig and 'New Netherlands Connections for including my query about Geertje's will in the last issue and for Larry van Der Laan in providing the answer. Geertje died in December 1684 and her will and an addition by her second husband Steven Jansz Coninck are listed in the papers of the notary Jan Becker [ERA III:590] Andrew Provost must have seen the will or a transcript when writing 'Early Settlers of Bushwick' in the 1940's, for he provides a very brief abstract, although the original will seems to have been lost. It turns out that Geertje's will and Steven Jansz's 'approbatie' were transcribed by A.J.F. van Laer and included in the 1930 Yearbook of the Dutch Settlers Society of Albany(DSSA Vol 6). I wonder if he made the transcript before the fire of 1911? Please mail me directly for a summary and discussion of the issues arising from the text of the will. Terry HJ Rossendale England

Dear David, I checked the record for Frederick's second marriage in Samuel Purple's translation of New Amsterdam/New York City marriages. You'll note on page 22 that there is no definite date given for the recording of the marriage intention. "Sonder datum" in the margin means "without a date [recorded]". Still, the second marriage intention was recorded sometime between 17 August 1657 and 13 October 1657. The actual marriage probably took place three weeks later after the calling of the banns three times. "Fredrick Lubbertszen, widower of Stijntje Jans, and Trijntje Hendricks, widow of Cors. Pieterszen." The women's names are similar to the degree that each of them was the daughter of a man named "Hendrick". The given names may be spelled "closely" in Dutch, but "Stijntje" is the diminutive of Christina, and "Trijntje" is the diminutive for Catherine. "Tiny" and "Cathy" seem more distinct in English equivalents. I don't see the "puzzlement". Dorothy >I'm puzzled... > >two wives with very similiar given and surnames and 30 years apart of >marriages. > >Dorothy? > >Fredrick Lubbertszen >about 1585, Amsterdam, Nederlands >married abt 1605 Amsterdam, Nederlands >Styntje Hendricksen >dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen >born about 1585 >died? > >daughter Rebecca Frederickse Lubbertsen >born 15 Aug 1628, Newton, Orange county, New York >married 19 Jul 1648 Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands (that's New York City) >died 1711 Bensalem, Bucks, Pennsylvania >wife of Jacob Leendertsen Vandergrift > >2nd wife >Tryntje Hendricksen >born about 1612 >married 17 Aug 1657 >dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen > >apparently no children > >Please help sort this one out. > >W. David Samuelsen > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DUTCH-COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What is already known..... 1. Maria abt 1608, St. Waast-la-Haut, France 2. Christine 1610, St. Waast-la-Haut, France 3. Abraham christened 26 Dec 1621, Leiden, Nederlands 4. Rachel 16 Mar 1622/3, Leiden, Nederlands 5. Jan 1624, Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands You can see there is a sizable gap between #2 and #3 I found some more Rachel christened 2 Sep 1618, Leiden, Nederlands Abraham VINOIS christened 22 Sep 1619, Leiden, Nederlands Sara VINOIS christened 22 Sep 1619, Leiden, Nederlands bring to a total of 8 children and I am puzzled about this 9th child Guleyn born 1625, Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands Can anyone confirm this 9th child? Back to the Vinois - I found them by accident listed under this name and did some checking on the surname Vinois - they are more plentiful in Nord-Pas-de-Calais and Meuse regions - they're next door to each other and just south of what is now Belgium's Walloon Region. This opened another avenue to check out the records in the area, instead of being limited to Valenciennes. W. David Samuelsen

Was Cornelia Hallenbeck who married Joseph Rauh the daughter of Dirk and Mary Spoor or Michael and Elizabeth Brasy (Bresie)? Thanks for helping me clean up my files. Sally Shreeve

I'm puzzled... two wives with very similiar given and surnames and 30 years apart of marriages. Dorothy? Fredrick Lubbertszen about 1585, Amsterdam, Nederlands married abt 1605 Amsterdam, Nederlands Styntje Hendricksen dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen born about 1585 died? daughter Rebecca Frederickse Lubbertsen born 15 Aug 1628, Newton, Orange county, New York married 19 Jul 1648 Nieuw Amsterdam, Nieuw Nederlands (that's New York City) died 1711 Bensalem, Bucks, Pennsylvania wife of Jacob Leendertsen Vandergrift 2nd wife Tryntje Hendricksen born about 1612 married 17 Aug 1657 dau of Hendrick Tomassen and Elsje Martensen apparently no children Please help sort this one out. W. David Samuelsen