Nelson Greene's "History of the Mohawk Valley: Gateway to the West 1614-1925" is a four-volume set covering the history of Fulton, Herkimer, Montgomery, Oneida, Schenectady and Schoharie Counties. The first two (historical) volumes, including more than 300 photos and maps, were completed during the summer and the beginning of the biographical section is now online at the Schenectady Digital History Archive - more than 2000 pages so far. <http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/resources/mvgw/index.html> Greene's History joins the Hudson-Mohawk Genealogical and Family Memoirs, a four-volume set with more than 1300 family entries from Albany, Columbia, Fulton, Greene, Montgomery, Rensselaer, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Warren and Washington Counties. -- Bob Sullivan Schenectady Digital History Archive <http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/> Schenectady County (NY) Public Library

http://www.newyorkgravestones.org New York Gravestone Photo Project It has been quite some time since last message about gravestone photos W. David Samuelsen

www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-10/antique-share-worth-as-much-as-764-000-found-by-student.html Be sure to pick up the wrap around. Marleen Van Horne

Thank you, Ethel. That gives me new information about the Ackerman children. I appreciate it. Lois Stewart

Hi Lois, You wrote <So which Belitje Bogert married John DeVoor?> I have the following info in my files with a note "From Pam Sears". Check the Dutch Colonies Archives. John DE VOOR married Aeltie KORTRIGHT. John died 1778/1780. WILL: John De Voor of Out Ward, New York left a will dated 26 June 1778, proved 2 October 1780 mentioning son John. Daughter Affee, wife of John Cortright. Daughter Yelantie, widow of Abraham Ackerman. [WILL-NYHS 9:137]. They had three children, Gelante, Johannes and Affee. ekk: John De Vore married Aeltie Kortright. The Ackerman Family by Tobey #3-25. Gelante DE VOOR, named Yelantie in father's will. Gelante married Abraham L ACKERMAN, son of Lodowyck Davidsz ACKERMAN and Hillegond BOSCH. Abraham was baptized on 2 Aug 1709 in Tarrytown DRCh. [#187]. He died before 26 Jun 1778. They had six children. Aafje, Hendrick, Margaret, Elizabet, Polly and Johannes. Johannes DE VOOR, named John in father's will. Johannes married Belitje BOGERT, daughter of Marten BOGERT and Aaltje PERSEL, 19 May 1752 w/license in New York DRCh. [NYDCh. Bk 2:182]. Belitje was baptized on 27 Jun 1731 in New York DRCh. [NYGBR 21(1890):155]. They had one daughter, Aaltje, bp 28 March 1753, New York Dutch Church. [NYGBR 27(1896):33]. Affee DE VOOR was named in father's will. Affee married John KORTRIGHT-43127. Nothing further. Best Regards, Ethel Kay Konight =================== In a message dated 10/19/2010 11:24:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: So which Belitje Bogert married John DeVoor? I had her down as daughter of Hendrick Bogert and Cornelia DeGraw, baptized 1725, but if Pam is right, then that identification is wrong. Could be. John DeVoor was baptized in 1728, making him younger than Belitje (1725). They had four children, Aaltje (1753), Aefje (1755), Johannes (1757), and another Aaltje (1759). It looks as if Aaltje might be the name of Belitje's mother??? since John DeVoor's parents were Aefie and Johannes. Any ideas? Lois Stewart

You may have helped more than you realized, Pam. I looked at the Archives and found the original posting of the Bogert Bible back in 1999 by Maria Pratt Hopper, along with Cor's translation, so that was a big help! Thank you, Pam, Ree, Cor, and Pat! What a great team! Lois

Hi Lois, The rabbit will remain in the hat this time <g>. I don't know the answer to your question. > Well, of course, I also have a Belitje Bogert, twin of Adrian Bogert, > both > baptized on 24 May 1761. Clearly another generation. > > Baptized on 24 May 1761. Adriaan and Belitje, twins, children of Jakobus > Bogert and Elizabet Bancker. Witnesses: Adriaan Bancker and Elizabeth > Teerling, his wife; and Jan Bogert and Antje Peek, his wife. > > Since you pull so many rabbits out of magical hats, Pam, do you know what > happened to this Belitje? I don't. > > Lois I do know that she (Belitje) and her twin brother Adriaen were both born on the 21st of May, 1761, and subsequently baptized on the 24th, as above. Transcribed from typewritten copy made originally by the late Howard I Durie BIBLE record of Jan C Bogert and Antje Peek. [sent by Ethel Konight 1 Oct 2006] (Bible is inscribed "Te Dordrecht by Hendrick Jacob en Pieter Kere en t'Amsterdam by Pieter rotterdam en Campagnie Anno 1704") Int Jaer 1761 Den 21 May is mijn twelingen geboren En getuijgen Vor Belietje mijn Vader Bogert en Moeder Bogert En vor Adrjean mijn Schon Vader Bancker en Moeder Bancker Sorry, Pam Sears

Well, of course, I also have a Belitje Bogert, twin of Adrian Bogert, both baptized on 24 May 1761. Clearly another generation. Baptized on 24 May 1761. Adriaan and Belitje, twins, children of Jakobus Bogert and Elizabet Bancker. Witnesses: Adriaan Bancker and Elizabeth Teerling, his wife; and Jan Bogert and Antje Peek, his wife. Since you pull so many rabbits out of magical hats, Pam, do you know what happened to this Belitje? I don't. Lois

Hi all, Pat wrote: > Hi Nancy, Pam, HAL and anyone else interested in this puzzle -- > > I have > Belitje Boogert, bp. 15 April 1722 NYC Ref Ch. dau. of Cornelius > Bogart & Cornelia Verduin/Ver Duyn > married Charles Dickenson. They had a dau., Cornelia, bp. 12 Sep 1744 > NYC Ref Ch. He d. before 17 Aug 1757 when Belitje, as his widow, > witnessed the bp. of Cornelia, dau. of Robert Ray & Sara Bogert. > Belitje (as Belletje Dikkenson) seems to have married (2) 1 March 1763 > NYC Ref Ch (License 1 March 1763), Robert Ray. > > Pat Sara Bogaert must have been the sister of this Belitje, for there was a Sara baptized in New York on 16 June 1728, another daughter of Cornelius Bogaert and Cornelia Verduyn (and, they had a brother named Nicholas). [page 111] 1744, Sept 12; Charles Dickenson, Belitje Bogart; Cornelia; Cornelius Bogert, Cornelia Ver Duyn, syn h.v. This Cornelia Dickenson appears to have married Hendrick Remsen, Jr. for their daughter Cornelia was baptized in New York on 13 December 1769 [witnesses Robert Ray and Belitje Bogert, z.h.] [page 221] 1757, 17 Aug; Richard Ray, Sara Bogert; Cornelia; Nicholaas Bogert, Belitje Bogert, Wed. v. Chr's Dickenson. Perhaps Robert Ray and Richard Ray were brothers. And, for Lois: > > So which Belitje Bogert married John DeVoor? I had her down as daughter > of Hendrick Bogert and Cornelia DeGraw, baptized 1725, but if Pam is > right, > then that identification is wrong. Could be. John DeVoor was baptized in > 1728, making him younger than Belitje (1725). They had four children, > Aaltje (1753), Aefje (1755), Johannes (1757), and another Aaltje > (1759). It > looks as if Aaltje might be the name of Belitje's mother??? since John > DeVoor's parents were Aefie and Johannes. > > Any ideas? Lois Stewart Johannes De Voor was baptized as follows: 1728, 10 Nov; Johannes de Voor, Aafje Cortregt; Johannes, geborenden 1 Octob.; David De Voor, Elisabeth Hunter His wife Belitje Bogaert was baptized as follows: 1731; 27 June; Marten Bogert, Aaltje Persel; Belitje; Henry Braisser, Abigael Persel Belitje Bogaert married John de Vore on 19 May 1752 (by marriage license dated 16 May 1752) Children of Johannes De Voor and Belitje Bogaert: 1753; 28 Mar; Johannes de Voor, Belitje Bogert; Aaltje; Johannes Persell, Sara Persell, j.d. 1755: 3 Jan; Johannes de Voor, Beelitje Boogart; Aafje; Johannes de Voor, Aafje Cortregt, z. huis v. 1757; 12 Jan; Johannis de Voor, Beelitje Bogert; Johannis; Johannis de Voor, Aafje de Voor, j.d. 1759; 2 May; Johannes de Voor, Belitje Bogaart; Aaltje; Philip Smith, Aaltje Bogaart, z.h.v. There is no sign of any DeGrauws or Verduyns who stood as witnesses in the above baptismal records. And, no one has mentioned, yet, the Belitje Bogaert who was baptized 25 December 1716 as the daughter of Johannes <Claes> Bogaert and his wife Annatje Peek. It was she who married Frans Wessels 12 October 1745 in New York [by a license bearing the same date]. That covers them all (I think <g>): Belitje, baptized 1716; married Frans Wessels in 1745 Belitje, baptized 1722; married Charles Dickenson (abt 1744) and Robert Ray in 1763 Belitje, baptized 1725; married Teunis Tiebout in 1744 Belitje, baptized 1731; married Johannes DeVoor in 1752 Regards, Pam Sears p.s. Thanks Lois and Pat

Many thanks, Pam! What would we do without you? Lois

Thanks so much Pam -- that helps enormously. So with this Belitje out of the running (having married John DeVoor), and having eliminated the Belitje bp. as dau. of Klaas/Nicholas Bogert (not in his will, so d.y.) I'm left with only one candidate, and so by process of elimination (helped by the witnesses at the baptism of her second child and the naming of a dau. Cornelia), I'm now going with the Belitje who married Teunnis Tiebout as the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia DeGraw. And now everything fits into place perfectly. Many thanks to all who helped with this puzzle. And, again, special thanks to Pam. Pat On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:19 AM, Pamela J. Sears wrote: > Hi Pat, > >> I've looked at the Belitje, dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia >> deGrauw, but in my data, I have this Beletje married to John DeVoor, >> and they had several children bp. in the NYC Ref Ch in a time period >> just after Teunis Tiebout and his wife Beleitje Bogert were having >> their children, so she seems to be accounted for. UNLESS Teunis >> Teibout's wife Belitje didn't die, and they were divorced and she >> remarried John De Voor, but this seems a real stretch. (I do not, by >> the way have John DeVoor's wife Belitje definitely identified -- was >> she indeed the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw?) >> >> Every other Beletje that I have in my data who would fit the time >> period seems to be accounted for. >> >> This is a real puzzle to me, and I would welcome anyone's input on >> this. >> >> Pat > > > The Belitje Bogaert who married Johannes DeVoor was baptized in New > York > on 27 June 1731, the daughter of Martinus Bogaert and his wife Aeltje > Parcell [page 13 of Volume III of the published records]. The record > reads: > > 1731, June 27; Marten Bogert, Aaltje Persel; Belitje; Henry Braisser, > Abigael Persel > > This Belitje Bogaert married John de Vore on 19 May 1752 (by marriage > license dated 16 May 1752) in the New York Dutch Church [page 185 of > the > published records]. > > First child was Aeltje DeVoor, baptized 28 March 1753 in New York, and > named after the maternal grandmother. > > 1753, Mar 28; Johannes de Voor, Belitje Bogert; Aaltje; Johannes > Persell, Sara Persell, j.d. > > I know very little about Martinus/Marten Bogaert. He apparently > married > (2nd) circa 1735 to Christina Parcell (sister of Aeltje), but no > marriage records have survived, and no Bogaerts appear as baptismal > witnesses. > > > Hope the above helps, > > Pam > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

So which Belitje Bogert married John DeVoor? I had her down as daughter of Hendrick Bogert and Cornelia DeGraw, baptized 1725, but if Pam is right, then that identification is wrong. Could be. John DeVoor was baptized in 1728, making him younger than Belitje (1725). They had four children, Aaltje (1753), Aefje (1755), Johannes (1757), and another Aaltje (1759). It looks as if Aaltje might be the name of Belitje's mother??? since John DeVoor's parents were Aefie and Johannes. Any ideas? Lois Stewart

Hal, > Hi Pat, Pam > > There is another Belitje that so far has not been covered and she was > the one on whom I had my eye - > > 1722 Apr 15; Cornelus Bogert, Cornelia Ver Duyn; Belitje; Claas Bogert > & wife Grietje [Concelje] > > I agree that Pam's placement seems very good and likely. This [ > apparently ] sole birth seems a tad difficult to place owing to the > lack of siblings and a naming pattern to follow. Someone, not readily > identifiable, on the IGI [ I know ] placed Cornelis Bogert as the son > of Cornelis Florisse Bogaard and Neeltjen Barten and that he was > baptised in Schoonrewoerd 21 Nov 1697. I have not yet compared this > prospect with the earliest Bogerts in NN and their known arrival as it > may well conflict!? > > HAL Cornelius Bogaert, the husband of Cornelia Verduyn, was baptized in New York on 14 January 1700, the son of Claes Janse Bogaert and Belitje Van Schaick. Thus, the witnesses at the baptism of his daughter Belitje were indeed Claes Bogaert and wife Grietje [2nd wife]. He married Cornelia Verduyn 1 May 1720 (by license dated 21 April 1720) in the New York Dutch Church [page 133 of the published records]: I have nothing further on the Belitje Bogaert baptized 15 April 1722. Cornelius Bogaert died 18 April 1793 at age 93 [in his 94th year]: The Diary or Loudon's Register.; Date: 04-22-1793; Issue: 372; Page: [3]; Location: New York, New York Died: Last Friday morning, Cornelius Bogart, in the 94th year of his age; interred in the family vault at the New Dutch Church. New-Jersey Journal, page [3], vol. XLVII, iss. 33 Publication Date: April 24, 1793 Published as: The New-York Journal, & Patriotic Register; Elizabethtown, New Jersey Regards, Pam Sears

Hi Nancy, Pam, HAL and anyone else interested in this puzzle -- I have Belitje Boogert, bp. 15 April 1722 NYC Ref Ch. dau. of Cornelius Bogart & Cornelia Verduin/Ver Duyn married Charles Dickenson. They had a dau., Cornelia, bp. 12 Sep 1744 NYC Ref Ch. He d. before 17 Aug 1757 when Belitje, as his widow, witnessed the bp. of Cornelia, dau. of Robert Ray & Sara Bogert. Belitje (as Belletje Dikkenson) seems to have married (2) 1 March 1763 NYC Ref Ch (License 1 March 1763), Robert Ray. Pat On Oct 19, 2010, at 9:45 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Hi Pat, Pam > > There is another Belitje that so far has not been covered and she > was the one on whom I had my eye - > > 1722 Apr 15; Cornelus Bogert, Cornelia Ver Duyn; Belitje; Claas > Bogert & wife Grietje [Concelje] > > I agree that Pam's placement seems very good and likely. This > [ apparently ] sole birth seems a tad difficult to place owing to > the lack of siblings and a naming pattern to follow. Someone, not > readily identifiable, on the IGI [ I know ] placed Cornelis Bogert > as the son of Cornelis Florisse Bogaard and Neeltjen Barten and that > he was baptised in Schoonrewoerd 21 Nov 1697. I have not yet > compared this prospect with the earliest Bogerts in NN and their > known arrival as it may well conflict!? > > HAL > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> > To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:30 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? > > > ---children of Teunis Tiebout & (1) Belitje Bogert: > • Johannes Tiebout, bp. 14 July 1745 NYC Ref Ch (as Johannes, son of > eunis Tiebout, Jur & Beeltje Bogaart) (wit: > ohannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.) > • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 9 Sep 1747 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Hendrik Bogert, > ornelia de Grauw, syn h.v.); apparently d.y. > • Maria Tiebout, bp. 27 Nov 1751 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Johannes Tiebout, > aria Van Deventer, z.h.v.); apparently d.y. > Belitje apparently d. before 5 Jan 1754 on which date, recorded NYC > ef Ch, Teunis married (2) Gerritie Veghte (Van Vegten; Van Vechten) > eunis m. (2) Gerritje Van Veghte and had additional children -- > ---children of Teunis Tibout & (2) Gerritie Van Veghte: > • Maria Tiebout (Mary), b. 15 Nov 1754 NY; bp. 20 Nov 1754 NYC Ref Ch > wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.); d. 28 Aug > 795; m. (1) 2 Nov 1771, John Johnson (b. 23 Oct 1748); m. (2) 18 Sep > 785 Theodorus Polhemus > • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 3 Dec 1758 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Nicholaas Vegte, > ornelia Van Duyn, z.h.) > • Gerritje Tiebout (Garetta), bp. 11 May 1763 NYC Ref Ch (wit: > ohannes Tiebout, Maria Tiebout, h.v. Benjamin Tenner [Tanner]); m. 14 > an 1785 John R. Cowenhoven > I tentatively have the Belitje who married Teunis Teibout identified > s dau. of > laas/Nicholas Bogert & (2) Margaret/Grietje Jans Consilyea -- > aptized as > eletje, dau. of Claas Bogert & Grietje Concelje, bp. 13 June 1716 NYC > ef Ch > BUT -- I, too, am concerned about the age difference between Teunis > iebout & Belitje Bogert/Bogart -- if she is the dau. of Klaas/ > icholas, she was about 6 years older than Teunis. But even more > isconcerting to me is the fact that no daughter Belitje was named in > laas/Nicholas Bogert's 1726 will, which would imply that dau. > elitje d.y., as did an earlier dau. Belitje born to this couple. > hese Belitjes were almost surely named in honor of Klaas/Nicholas > ogert's deceased first wife, Belitje Van Schaick. > I've looked at the Belitje, dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia > eGrauw, but in my data, I have this Beletje married to John DeVoor, > nd they had several children bp. in the NYC Ref Ch in a time period > ust after Teunis Tiebout and his wife Beleitje Bogert were having > heir children, so she seems to be accounted for. UNLESS Teunis > eibout's wife Belitje didn't die, and they were divorced and she > emarried John De Voor, but this seems a real stretch. (I do not, by > he way have John DeVoor's wife Belitje definitely identified -- was > he indeed the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw?) > Every other Beletje that I have in my data who would fit the time > eriod seems to be accounted for. > This is a real puzzle to me, and I would welcome anyone's input on > this. > Pat > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 7:03 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> > > > > Hi > > I don't follow this. I can find no baptism in the NYC DRC at all for > a "Concelje" in 1716 being the daughter of the parents stated. There > is however on the very same day quoted - > > > 1716 Jun 13; Claas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Johannes > Graaf, Elizabeth Van Schaik > > > > Meaning Belitje [ the child baptised ] daughter of Claas Bogert & > Grietje Concelje; the sponsors being Johannes Graaf & Elizabeth Van > Schaik. > > I expect you are mis - reading the records. > > I can see 9 children in the NYC DRC baptised to this couple > including two Belitje's in 1708 and 1716 as mentioned but I am very > sceptical indeed that the latter was the wife of Theunis Tiebout - > owing to her age. In my experience I have not seen brides in a first > marriage 6 years older than their grooms. Usually about the same age > or a year or two younger or older. Has anyone experience of older > brides in a first marriage? > > I think I can see the correct Belitje who may well have married > Theunis but wil do some more work on it before jumping the gun. > > It would help enormously if you could please list the children of > Theunis & Belitje. > > Also, does anyone please know the parents of Claas Bogert & Grietje > Conselje? > > Thanks. > > Hope this helps. > > HAL > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nancyterhune <[email protected]> > To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:09 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? > > > Pat, > This Belitje/Belletjie Bogert, the "Belida" Bogert who married > Teunis Tiebout 18 > ov 1744, is shown by H.S. Ackerman ("Five Bogert Families") as the > seventh > hild and second Belletje born to Nicholas Bogaert and his second > wife Margaret > onsilyea Van Tilburg. This Belletje was b. 5 Jun 1716 and bp. 13 > Jun 1716. > owever, the corresponding baptismal record in the NYDRC records is for > Concelje" Bogert, daughter of Claas Bogert and Grietje Belitje. I > thought that > his might have been a transposition of the mother's second name and > the > hild's, but when I checked the baptism of the first Belitje, 5 Dec > 1708, the > hild's name is also given as Concelje and the mother's also Grietje > Belitje. > an anyone untangle this? > Ackerman shows Nicholas Bogaert, b. 1668 in Bedford LI, as son of > Jan Louwe > Laurenes/Laurenez) Bogert of Schoonderwoert, Holland, progenitor of > his line in > merica; but I have no primary records that confirm any of this. > Nicholas's > irst wife is given as Belitje Van Schaick (marr. NYDRC 28 Jun 1695). > Nancy > ----- Original Message ----- > rom: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> > ate: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:39 am > ubject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? > o: Dutch-Colonies List <[email protected]> >> Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the > New > York Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes > Tiebout & Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in > the > New York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she > born > or baptized? > > Thanks for any help. > > Pat Wardell > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > he message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > he message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hi Pat, > I've looked at the Belitje, dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia > deGrauw, but in my data, I have this Beletje married to John DeVoor, > and they had several children bp. in the NYC Ref Ch in a time period > just after Teunis Tiebout and his wife Beleitje Bogert were having > their children, so she seems to be accounted for. UNLESS Teunis > Teibout's wife Belitje didn't die, and they were divorced and she > remarried John De Voor, but this seems a real stretch. (I do not, by > the way have John DeVoor's wife Belitje definitely identified -- was > she indeed the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw?) > > Every other Beletje that I have in my data who would fit the time > period seems to be accounted for. > > This is a real puzzle to me, and I would welcome anyone's input on this. > > Pat The Belitje Bogaert who married Johannes DeVoor was baptized in New York on 27 June 1731, the daughter of Martinus Bogaert and his wife Aeltje Parcell [page 13 of Volume III of the published records]. The record reads: 1731, June 27; Marten Bogert, Aaltje Persel; Belitje; Henry Braisser, Abigael Persel This Belitje Bogaert married John de Vore on 19 May 1752 (by marriage license dated 16 May 1752) in the New York Dutch Church [page 185 of the published records]. First child was Aeltje DeVoor, baptized 28 March 1753 in New York, and named after the maternal grandmother. 1753, Mar 28; Johannes de Voor, Belitje Bogert; Aaltje; Johannes Persell, Sara Persell, j.d. I know very little about Martinus/Marten Bogaert. He apparently married (2nd) circa 1735 to Christina Parcell (sister of Aeltje), but no marriage records have survived, and no Bogaerts appear as baptismal witnesses. Hope the above helps, Pam

Hi Pat, Pam There is another Belitje that so far has not been covered and she was the one on whom I had my eye - 1722 Apr 15; Cornelus Bogert, Cornelia Ver Duyn; Belitje; Claas Bogert & wife Grietje [Concelje] I agree that Pam's placement seems very good and likely. This [ apparently ] sole birth seems a tad difficult to place owing to the lack of siblings and a naming pattern to follow. Someone, not readily identifiable, on the IGI [ I know ] placed Cornelis Bogert as the son of Cornelis Florisse Bogaard and Neeltjen Barten and that he was baptised in Schoonrewoerd 21 Nov 1697. I have not yet compared this prospect with the earliest Bogerts in NN and their known arrival as it may well conflict!? HAL -----Original Message----- From: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:30 Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? ---children of Teunis Tiebout & (1) Belitje Bogert: • Johannes Tiebout, bp. 14 July 1745 NYC Ref Ch (as Johannes, son of eunis Tiebout, Jur & Beeltje Bogaart) (wit: ohannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.) • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 9 Sep 1747 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Hendrik Bogert, ornelia de Grauw, syn h.v.); apparently d.y. • Maria Tiebout, bp. 27 Nov 1751 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Johannes Tiebout, aria Van Deventer, z.h.v.); apparently d.y. Belitje apparently d. before 5 Jan 1754 on which date, recorded NYC ef Ch, Teunis married (2) Gerritie Veghte (Van Vegten; Van Vechten) eunis m. (2) Gerritje Van Veghte and had additional children -- ---children of Teunis Tibout & (2) Gerritie Van Veghte: • Maria Tiebout (Mary), b. 15 Nov 1754 NY; bp. 20 Nov 1754 NYC Ref Ch wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.); d. 28 Aug 795; m. (1) 2 Nov 1771, John Johnson (b. 23 Oct 1748); m. (2) 18 Sep 785 Theodorus Polhemus • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 3 Dec 1758 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Nicholaas Vegte, ornelia Van Duyn, z.h.) • Gerritje Tiebout (Garetta), bp. 11 May 1763 NYC Ref Ch (wit: ohannes Tiebout, Maria Tiebout, h.v. Benjamin Tenner [Tanner]); m. 14 an 1785 John R. Cowenhoven I tentatively have the Belitje who married Teunis Teibout identified s dau. of laas/Nicholas Bogert & (2) Margaret/Grietje Jans Consilyea -- aptized as eletje, dau. of Claas Bogert & Grietje Concelje, bp. 13 June 1716 NYC ef Ch BUT -- I, too, am concerned about the age difference between Teunis iebout & Belitje Bogert/Bogart -- if she is the dau. of Klaas/ icholas, she was about 6 years older than Teunis. But even more isconcerting to me is the fact that no daughter Belitje was named in laas/Nicholas Bogert's 1726 will, which would imply that dau. elitje d.y., as did an earlier dau. Belitje born to this couple. hese Belitjes were almost surely named in honor of Klaas/Nicholas ogert's deceased first wife, Belitje Van Schaick. I've looked at the Belitje, dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia eGrauw, but in my data, I have this Beletje married to John DeVoor, nd they had several children bp. in the NYC Ref Ch in a time period ust after Teunis Tiebout and his wife Beleitje Bogert were having heir children, so she seems to be accounted for. UNLESS Teunis eibout's wife Belitje didn't die, and they were divorced and she emarried John De Voor, but this seems a real stretch. (I do not, by he way have John DeVoor's wife Belitje definitely identified -- was he indeed the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw?) Every other Beletje that I have in my data who would fit the time eriod seems to be accounted for. This is a real puzzle to me, and I would welcome anyone's input on this. Pat On Oct 19, 2010, at 7:03 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Hi I don't follow this. I can find no baptism in the NYC DRC at all for a "Concelje" in 1716 being the daughter of the parents stated. There is however on the very same day quoted - 1716 Jun 13; Claas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Johannes Graaf, Elizabeth Van Schaik Meaning Belitje [ the child baptised ] daughter of Claas Bogert & Grietje Concelje; the sponsors being Johannes Graaf & Elizabeth Van Schaik. I expect you are mis - reading the records. I can see 9 children in the NYC DRC baptised to this couple including two Belitje's in 1708 and 1716 as mentioned but I am very sceptical indeed that the latter was the wife of Theunis Tiebout - owing to her age. In my experience I have not seen brides in a first marriage 6 years older than their grooms. Usually about the same age or a year or two younger or older. Has anyone experience of older brides in a first marriage? I think I can see the correct Belitje who may well have married Theunis but wil do some more work on it before jumping the gun. It would help enormously if you could please list the children of Theunis & Belitje. Also, does anyone please know the parents of Claas Bogert & Grietje Conselje? Thanks. Hope this helps. HAL -----Original Message----- From: nancyterhune <[email protected]> To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:09 Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? Pat, This Belitje/Belletjie Bogert, the "Belida" Bogert who married Teunis Tiebout 18 ov 1744, is shown by H.S. Ackerman ("Five Bogert Families") as the seventh hild and second Belletje born to Nicholas Bogaert and his second wife Margaret onsilyea Van Tilburg. This Belletje was b. 5 Jun 1716 and bp. 13 Jun 1716. owever, the corresponding baptismal record in the NYDRC records is for Concelje" Bogert, daughter of Claas Bogert and Grietje Belitje. I thought that his might have been a transposition of the mother's second name and the hild's, but when I checked the baptism of the first Belitje, 5 Dec 1708, the hild's name is also given as Concelje and the mother's also Grietje Belitje. an anyone untangle this? Ackerman shows Nicholas Bogaert, b. 1668 in Bedford LI, as son of Jan Louwe Laurenes/Laurenez) Bogert of Schoonderwoert, Holland, progenitor of his line in merica; but I have no primary records that confirm any of this. Nicholas's irst wife is given as Belitje Van Schaick (marr. NYDRC 28 Jun 1695). Nancy ----- Original Message ----- rom: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> ate: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:39 am ubject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? o: Dutch-Colonies List <[email protected]> > Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the New York Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes Tiebout & Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in the New York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she born or baptized? Thanks for any help. Pat Wardell [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]web.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

---children of Teunis Tiebout & (1) Belitje Bogert: • Johannes Tiebout, bp. 14 July 1745 NYC Ref Ch (as Johannes, son of Teunis Tiebout, Jur & Beeltje Bogaart) (wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.) • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 9 Sep 1747 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Hendrik Bogert, Cornelia de Grauw, syn h.v.); apparently d.y. • Maria Tiebout, bp. 27 Nov 1751 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z.h.v.); apparently d.y. Belitje apparently d. before 5 Jan 1754 on which date, recorded NYC Ref Ch, Teunis married (2) Gerritie Veghte (Van Vegten; Van Vechten) Teunis m. (2) Gerritje Van Veghte and had additional children -- ---children of Teunis Tibout & (2) Gerritie Van Veghte: • Maria Tiebout (Mary), b. 15 Nov 1754 NY; bp. 20 Nov 1754 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Van Deventer, z. huis v.); d. 28 Aug 1795; m. (1) 2 Nov 1771, John Johnson (b. 23 Oct 1748); m. (2) 18 Sep 1785 Theodorus Polhemus • Cornelia Tiebout, bp. 3 Dec 1758 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Nicholaas Vegte, Cornelia Van Duyn, z.h.) • Gerritje Tiebout (Garetta), bp. 11 May 1763 NYC Ref Ch (wit: Johannes Tiebout, Maria Tiebout, h.v. Benjamin Tenner [Tanner]); m. 14 Jan 1785 John R. Cowenhoven I tentatively have the Belitje who married Teunis Teibout identified as dau. of Klaas/Nicholas Bogert & (2) Margaret/Grietje Jans Consilyea -- baptized as Beletje, dau. of Claas Bogert & Grietje Concelje, bp. 13 June 1716 NYC Ref Ch BUT -- I, too, am concerned about the age difference between Teunis Tiebout & Belitje Bogert/Bogart -- if she is the dau. of Klaas/ Nicholas, she was about 6 years older than Teunis. But even more disconcerting to me is the fact that no daughter Belitje was named in Klaas/Nicholas Bogert's 1726 will, which would imply that dau. Belitje d.y., as did an earlier dau. Belitje born to this couple. These Belitjes were almost surely named in honor of Klaas/Nicholas Bogert's deceased first wife, Belitje Van Schaick. I've looked at the Belitje, dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw, but in my data, I have this Beletje married to John DeVoor, and they had several children bp. in the NYC Ref Ch in a time period just after Teunis Tiebout and his wife Beleitje Bogert were having their children, so she seems to be accounted for. UNLESS Teunis Teibout's wife Belitje didn't die, and they were divorced and she remarried John De Voor, but this seems a real stretch. (I do not, by the way have John DeVoor's wife Belitje definitely identified -- was she indeed the dau. of Hendrick Bogert & Cornelia deGrauw?) Every other Beletje that I have in my data who would fit the time period seems to be accounted for. This is a real puzzle to me, and I would welcome anyone's input on this. Pat On Oct 19, 2010, at 7:03 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > Hi > > I don't follow this. I can find no baptism in the NYC DRC at all for > a "Concelje" in 1716 being the daughter of the parents stated. There > is however on the very same day quoted - > > > 1716 Jun 13; Claas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Johannes > Graaf, Elizabeth Van Schaik > > > > Meaning Belitje [ the child baptised ] daughter of Claas Bogert & > Grietje Concelje; the sponsors being Johannes Graaf & Elizabeth Van > Schaik. > > I expect you are mis - reading the records. > > I can see 9 children in the NYC DRC baptised to this couple > including two Belitje's in 1708 and 1716 as mentioned but I am very > sceptical indeed that the latter was the wife of Theunis Tiebout - > owing to her age. In my experience I have not seen brides in a first > marriage 6 years older than their grooms. Usually about the same age > or a year or two younger or older. Has anyone experience of older > brides in a first marriage? > > I think I can see the correct Belitje who may well have married > Theunis but wil do some more work on it before jumping the gun. > > It would help enormously if you could please list the children of > Theunis & Belitje. > > Also, does anyone please know the parents of Claas Bogert & Grietje > Conselje? > > Thanks. > > Hope this helps. > > HAL > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nancyterhune <[email protected]> > To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:09 > Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? > > > Pat, > This Belitje/Belletjie Bogert, the "Belida" Bogert who married > Teunis Tiebout 18 > ov 1744, is shown by H.S. Ackerman ("Five Bogert Families") as the > seventh > hild and second Belletje born to Nicholas Bogaert and his second > wife Margaret > onsilyea Van Tilburg. This Belletje was b. 5 Jun 1716 and bp. 13 > Jun 1716. > owever, the corresponding baptismal record in the NYDRC records is for > Concelje" Bogert, daughter of Claas Bogert and Grietje Belitje. I > thought that > his might have been a transposition of the mother's second name and > the > hild's, but when I checked the baptism of the first Belitje, 5 Dec > 1708, the > hild's name is also given as Concelje and the mother's also Grietje > Belitje. > an anyone untangle this? > Ackerman shows Nicholas Bogaert, b. 1668 in Bedford LI, as son of > Jan Louwe > Laurenes/Laurenez) Bogert of Schoonderwoert, Holland, progenitor of > his line in > merica; but I have no primary records that confirm any of this. > Nicholas's > irst wife is given as Belitje Van Schaick (marr. NYDRC 28 Jun 1695). > Nancy > ----- Original Message ----- > rom: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> > ate: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:39 am > ubject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? > o: Dutch-Colonies List <[email protected]> >> Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the > New > York Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes > Tiebout & Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in > the > New York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she > born > or baptized? > > Thanks for any help. > > Pat Wardell > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > he message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hi Pat, Nancy and Hal, > Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the New > York Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes > Tiebout& Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in the > New York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she born > or baptized? > > Thanks for any help. > > Pat Wardell > [email protected] <http://newmail.core.com/src/compose.php?send_to=the.wardells%40gte.net> The wife of this Teunis Tiebout was Belitje Bogaert, baptized in New York 13 January 1725, the daughter of Hendrick (son of Claes) Bogaert and his wife Cornelia de Grauw, [page 455 of the published records]. 1725, 13 Jan; Hendrik Boogert, Cornelia de Graw; Belitje; Gerret de Graw, Claasje de Graaf Teunis Tiebout and Belitje Bogaert had at least 3 children: Johannes baptized on 14 July 1745; Cornelia on 9 September 1747, and Maria on 27 November 1751. Belitje Bogaert died before 5 January 1754 when Teunis Tiebout married as his 2nd wife to Gerritje Veghte, the widow of Folkert Duryea. The baptismal record for Cornelia Tiebout on 9 September 1747 in New York confirms the above placement, for the maternal grandparents were the witnesses [page 136 of the published records]: 1747, 9 Sept; Teunis Tiebout, Belitje Bogerdt; Cornelia; Hendrik Bogerdt, Cornelila de Grauw, syn h.v. Nancy wrote: > Pat, > > This Belitje/Belletjie Bogert, the "Belida" Bogert who married Teunis Tiebout 18 Nov > 1744, is shown by H.S. Ackerman ("Five Bogert Families") as the seventh child and > second Belletje born to Nicholas Bogaert and his second wife Margaret Consilyea Van > Tilburg. This Belletje was b. 5 Jun 1716 and bp. 13 Jun 1716. However, the > corresponding baptismal record in the NYDRC records is for "Concelje" Bogert, > daughter of Claas Bogert and Grietje Belitje. I thought that this might have been a > transposition of the mother's second name and the child's, but when I checked the > baptism of the first Belitje, 5 Dec 1708, the child's name is also given as Concelje > and the mother's also Grietje Belitje. Can anyone untangle this? Untangling!. Again, from the published records of the New York Dutch Church, it appears that someone has transposed the mother's surname with that of the child. The records read: 1708, 5 Dec; Klaas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Hendrik Van Schaik, Johannes Bogert, Neeltje Cornelis wife of Hendrik Van Schaik, Annetje Stille [page 334] 1716, 13 Jun; Claas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Johannes Graaf, Elizabeth Van Schaik [page 391] Neither Belitje survived infancy, for no child by that name was mentioned in the will of Klaas Janse Bogert dated 17 September 1726 and proved 10 February 1726/27 [WNYHS 2:375-6]. Regards, Pam Sears

Also - It is Schoonrewoerd [ Schoonrewoert ] close by to [ the present ] Nieuw Schaik and Oud Schaik all in Zuid Holland. -----Original Message----- From: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> To: Dutch-Colonies List <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:39 Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the New ork Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes iebout & Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in the ew York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she born r baptized? Thanks for any help. Pat Wardell [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi I don't follow this. I can find no baptism in the NYC DRC at all for a "Concelje" in 1716 being the daughter of the parents stated. There is however on the very same day quoted - 1716 Jun 13; Claas Bogert, Grietje Concelje; Belitje; Johannes Graaf, Elizabeth Van Schaik Meaning Belitje [ the child baptised ] daughter of Claas Bogert & Grietje Concelje; the sponsors being Johannes Graaf & Elizabeth Van Schaik. I expect you are mis - reading the records. I can see 9 children in the NYC DRC baptised to this couple including two Belitje's in 1708 and 1716 as mentioned but I am very sceptical indeed that the latter was the wife of Theunis Tiebout - owing to her age. In my experience I have not seen brides in a first marriage 6 years older than their grooms. Usually about the same age or a year or two younger or older. Has anyone experience of older brides in a first marriage? I think I can see the correct Belitje who may well have married Theunis but wil do some more work on it before jumping the gun. It would help enormously if you could please list the children of Theunis & Belitje. Also, does anyone please know the parents of Claas Bogert & Grietje Conselje? Thanks. Hope this helps. HAL -----Original Message----- From: nancyterhune <[email protected]> To: dutch-colonies <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:09 Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? Pat, This Belitje/Belletjie Bogert, the "Belida" Bogert who married Teunis Tiebout 18 ov 1744, is shown by H.S. Ackerman ("Five Bogert Families") as the seventh hild and second Belletje born to Nicholas Bogaert and his second wife Margaret onsilyea Van Tilburg. This Belletje was b. 5 Jun 1716 and bp. 13 Jun 1716. owever, the corresponding baptismal record in the NYDRC records is for Concelje" Bogert, daughter of Claas Bogert and Grietje Belitje. I thought that his might have been a transposition of the mother's second name and the hild's, but when I checked the baptism of the first Belitje, 5 Dec 1708, the hild's name is also given as Concelje and the mother's also Grietje Belitje. an anyone untangle this? Ackerman shows Nicholas Bogaert, b. 1668 in Bedford LI, as son of Jan Louwe Laurenes/Laurenez) Bogert of Schoonderwoert, Holland, progenitor of his line in merica; but I have no primary records that confirm any of this. Nicholas's irst wife is given as Belitje Van Schaick (marr. NYDRC 28 Jun 1695). Nancy ----- Original Message ----- rom: Pat & Walter Wardell <[email protected]> ate: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:39 am ubject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who was Belitje Bogert? o: Dutch-Colonies List <[email protected]> > Who was the Belitje Bogert/Bogart who married 18 Nov 1744 in the New York Dutch Ref Church, Theunis Tiebout? He was the son of Johannes Tiebout & Maria Van Deventer, and he was baptized 20 June 1722 in the New York Dutch Ref Church. Who were her parents and when was she born or baptized? Thanks for any help. Pat Wardell [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUTCH- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message