I can deal with the ship question, but not the NYHS. This is approximately the route which Pieter Minuit took in 1637, when he was a member of the New Sweden Company. Minuit had previously worked for the Dutch West Indies Company, and ad been the governor of New Netherland --familiar with much of the Atlantic coast and its rivers. Minuit's crew was comprised partly of Dutch sailors. including the ship captain. Minuit was instructed to sail from Gotteburg then to "run around behind Schottland and to sail then in a suitable course of approximately 44 degrees, and if it is feasible, to touch Ile de Sable..." where they could have the ship inspected Sable Island is off the coast of Nova Scotia, Canada. Afterward he was to sail to the (now) Delaware River, where he was to plant a colony for Sweden at the southern edge of New Netherlands. For the full set of Minuit's instructions, See Weslager & Dunlap, _Dutch Exporers, Traders and Settlers in the Delaware Valley 1609-1664_ (1961, University of Pennsylvania Press), in which Dunlap has translated Minuit's instructions in full, including the routes to be used on outbound and inbound voyage on his 1637-1638 round trip. I imagine it would have been much faster to sail this route, if enough supplies (water, food) could be taken aboard in the Scottish islands to last for the rest of the voyage. Probably many ships used this route, if the main purpose of the voyage was to bring passengers to New Netherland --unless there was some special reason why it was necessary to stop first in the West Indies. Ships never went back to Europe empty; probably after discharging passengers at New Amsterdam, "de Bever" cruised to the West Indies (of maybe Virginia, which was growing some nice tobacco by then), loaded some type of product(s), came back up the east coast of North America, took on more water and food (somewhere, such as New Amsterdam or maybe Boston), then sailed directly back to Europe. Also (this needs checking), I believe England and Netherlands were at this time not seeing eye-to-eye, and there may have been some level of discomfort involved in sailing through the English Channel. But I have the sense that making the fastest voyage was the utmost concern when bringing a shipload of passengers to New Netherland. I don't think summer or winter made much of a difference. The critical factor was always clean water and fresh food. I think the distance between land points is shorter using the northern route. Sailing wouldn't be more of problem using this route than it woyld to take the southern route. There is a belt of winds blowing mainly east-west (the Polar Easterlies), above the zone where the winds blow east-west. Then below this, another zone going the other way again. The boundary of the northmost of the Polar Easterlies is about 60 degrees north. Amsterdam is 52°22' N, 4° 53' E; the south mainlof the Shetlands is at 60°N .Orkney Is. 59°'N, 03°'W St John's, Newfoundland (north of Sable) is 47° 34', N, 52° 41' W; Manhattan is at 40°43′42″N, 73°59′39″W. Map of the global winds here: http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/deserts/atmosphere/ I am also aware that many other ships did sail through the Channel, past the coast of France and Portugal, sometimes stopped on African ports and/or in the Canaries, then headed across to the West Indies or Brazil. These contracts with the WIC varied; instructions for the captains were included in every contract made between the captain and the WIC. Some of these contracts can be found (in abstract) in archives of Rotterdam and can be ordered in full from there, although I'm not sure how many ships sailed from Rotterdam to New Netherland during the Dutch era. Most of the contracts from Rotterdam I have seen (in full) were dated no later than 1640's. I have one WIC contract here dated 1637 in which the captain is instructed to sail to Brazil with a shipload of soldiers, then take on salt in the West Indies (but not go to St Kitts), then return to Rotterdam. Best wishes & hope this helps, Liz J On 7 June 2011 18:21, THJ <[email protected]> wrote: > Life is full of surprises. > > I recently followed up a reference in Jaap Jacob's 'The Colony of New > Netherland' to  De Halve Maen, 42-4(1968) pages 7-8, 10, 15 which > turned out to be an article by Dr Kenneth Scott of the City > University NY. The article is based on travel journals in Dutch > describing four voyages 1661-1663 between New Amsterdam and the > Netherlands( Otter, Bever, Hoop and Rooseboom), one of which is a > description of the voyage of 'De Bever'in May/July 1661 on which my > ancestors were passengers.  The originals are in the Manuscript > Collection of the New York Historical Society. > > Dr Scott omits much of the routine positional and weather information > contained in the journals and concentrates (frustratingly) on what he > feels ate 'the more interesting items.the > > I'd always believed that De Bever would have taken the southerly > option via the Canaries/Caribbean, but the journal describes the > first part of the route via the Orkney Islands which implies a > northerly route.  The journal goes on to describe the first sighting > of the American mainland near Barnegat and the ship going aground on > the 'West Bank' near the Manhattans whereupon smaller vessels arrived > to take off cargo so the ship could be refloated. > > The credentials of Dr Scott look impressive and an image of part of > the document seems consistent with the language and handwriting of > the period. A few of questions for the list : > > 1. What do we know about this northern route? The Bever's voyage was > 9 May - 29 July which might indicate it was used in the summer months > 2. Does anyone get to the NYHS and could have a look at the originals > for me? (please!) I'm happy to exchange some research in the UK for > this favour. > > > Terry Haslam-Jones > Rossendale > England > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am writing a history of George (Jurriaen) Probatski, and in a notarial document he agreed to repay 130 Carolus gulden or guilders to equip himself. That seems a bit high for that purpose. I am trying to figure out how he brought his family over and was wondering if it might also be included in that amount, though it is not stated in the notarial document. Or whether the WIC paid for their passage per the following info, though this covered a few years later: “Documents Relating to the Colonial History of New York,” B. Fernow, (c)1883, vol XIV, pg 304: Soldiers and their families… "The muster roll of the soldiers coming over, we have made great endeavors to obtain a larger number, but could not succeed on account of the recruiting by the East India Company. You will take care and direct, that the accounts of such as come with their wives and children are duly debited with the passage money of their families, besides their arms and two months' pay paid in advance, for the Company, as you know, has to pay the passage for these women and children here. Besides a master carpenter, a gunner and a boatswain, we send you also in the said ship a quantity of tools as per invoice." Nora On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Howard Swain <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Nora, > > From: "Nora Probasco" <[email protected]> > To: "Dutch Colonies" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:48 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Question > > > > Would an amount of one hundred and thirty carolus guldens be considered a > > large amount in 1654? > > > > Nora > > I assume "carolus gulden" is the same as a Carolus guilder. > The Carolus guilder was equal to 1.5 regular guilders. > So, your 130 would be about 200 guilders = 200 florins. > > I think the best way to compare money amounts over a long time > span, is to look at how long a person would have to work to earn > that much. > > William Hoffman in Random Notes Concerning Settlers of Dutch Descent > in TAG vol 29, pp. 65 -76 shows that a farm hands earned about > 100 to 150 guilders per year. If you scan down the notarial records > in NNC vol 5 you will see that this is a very good estimate. I see > many men contracting to work for about 120 guilders per year. > > You can also look at prices. Hoffman has that a mare cost 200 gl. > > Regards, > Howard > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> Would an amount of one hundred and thirty carolus guldens be considered a > large amount in 1654? > > Nora You might find something useful in these sources: Silver Coins Compared 1670-1730 <http://www.pierre-marteau.com/currency/coins/silver.html> Historic Currency Calculator <http://www.dutchancestrycoach.com/historic-calculator.php> -- Bob Sullivan Schenectady Digital History Archive <http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/> Schenectady County (NY) Public Library

Would an amount of one hundred and thirty carolus guldens be considered a large amount in 1654? Nora

I should have said that Nathaniel Brittain died before 3 Feb 1803. That was actually the date that Letters of Administration were granted. Sorry about that! I got the date of Samuel's birth from his tombstone at Find A Grave. I'll have to get the Probate file out later when I have more time. As I remember, it's about 18 large pages with a drawing of Nathaniel's land, and, if I remember, the surveyors gave each heir a tiny strip of the small portion of land that had already been cleared for cultivation, and a chunk of the uncleared land. Not a very workable solution! There wasn't much information of a genealogical nature, except for the names of heirs and widow. There may have been an inventory. Anyone can send for a copy from the NJ archives. I've sent for quite a few of these for my NJ ancestors. When there's a will (there wasn't one in this case), they usually send you copies of both the clerk's copy and the original. I like getting to see my ancestors signatures on the originals! Carol Anne On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Sally Shreeve <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am not sure who the parents are.  The two sets I think might be are John > Brittain (son of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen) and Rachel Wall > or Nicholas Brittain and his wife (name unknown) that I have seen some > believe is his father.  Wish I could be of more help.  I have no proof as to > what is correct.  Thanks for the date for Samuel; I didn't have that. > Sally Shreeve > > > I should add that, although I have found no other information on > Nathaniel, his wife was born 11 Oct 1740, in Hopewell Township, > Hunterdon Co., NJ, so one might guess that Nathaniel would have been > born around 1740 or earlier. I have so far found a date of birth for > only one of Nathaniel's children, the youngest, Samuel, who was born > 17 Mar 1779, according to his tombstone. The only record I have been > able to get a hold of for Nathaniel Brittain is his probate file. > > Carol Anne > > > > >> Hello Sally, >> >> Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I >> have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married >> Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His >> children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, >> Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. >> >> Carol Anne >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: >>> I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time. I >>> am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them. If you have >>> any different information, please let me know. >>> >>> Rachel Brittain >>> 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 >>> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders >>> Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >>> I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect >>> Rachel Brittain or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. >>> 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 >>> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen >>> >>> Rachel Brittain >>> 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 >>> Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette >>> >>> Rachel Brittain >>> abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 >>> Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell >>> Married Thomas Dongan >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Sally Britton Shreeve >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Nora, If you look at Documents Relative ... vol I, pp. 643 - 645, you will see a long list of "Estimated Expenses of sending a Colony to the Delaware River". dated 1656. It lists all kinds of clothing. Eg. first item is 400 pairs of shoes for 500 fl. Shirts were 1.8 fl. each. Later are costs for muskets, swords, powder, etc. Muskets were 4.5 fl each. As to the voyage, typical was 36 fl per adult, half fare for younger children, and nothing for nursing babies. My impression is that this was mostly, if not, entirely for the food they ate. Regards, Howard [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nora Probasco" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Question I am writing a history of George (Jurriaen) Probatski, and in a notarial document he agreed to repay 130 Carolus gulden or guilders to equip himself. That seems a bit high for that purpose. I am trying to figure out how he brought his family over and was wondering if it might also be included in that amount, though it is not stated in the notarial document. Or whether the WIC paid for their passage per the following info, though this covered a few years later: “Documents Relating to the Colonial History of New York,” B. Fernow, (c)1883, vol XIV, pg 304: Soldiers and their families… "The muster roll of the soldiers coming over, we have made great endeavors to obtain a larger number, but could not succeed on account of the recruiting by the East India Company. You will take care and direct, that the accounts of such as come with their wives and children are duly debited with the passage money of their families, besides their arms and two months' pay paid in advance, for the Company, as you know, has to pay the passage for these women and children here. Besides a master carpenter, a gunner and a boatswain, we send you also in the said ship a quantity of tools as per invoice." Nora On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Howard Swain <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Nora, > > From: "Nora Probasco" <[email protected]> > To: "Dutch Colonies" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:48 PM > Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Question > > > > Would an amount of one hundred and thirty carolus guldens be considered > > a > > large amount in 1654? > > > > Nora > > I assume "carolus gulden" is the same as a Carolus guilder. > The Carolus guilder was equal to 1.5 regular guilders. > So, your 130 would be about 200 guilders = 200 florins. > > I think the best way to compare money amounts over a long time > span, is to look at how long a person would have to work to earn > that much. > > William Hoffman in Random Notes Concerning Settlers of Dutch Descent > in TAG vol 29, pp. 65 -76 shows that a farm hands earned about > 100 to 150 guilders per year. If you scan down the notarial records > in NNC vol 5 you will see that this is a very good estimate. I see > many men contracting to work for about 120 guilders per year. > > You can also look at prices. Hoffman has that a mare cost 200 gl. > > Regards, > Howard > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Nora, From: "Nora Probasco" <[email protected]> To: "Dutch Colonies" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:48 PM Subject: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Question > Would an amount of one hundred and thirty carolus guldens be considered a > large amount in 1654? > > Nora I assume "carolus gulden" is the same as a Carolus guilder. The Carolus guilder was equal to 1.5 regular guilders. So, your 130 would be about 200 guilders = 200 florins. I think the best way to compare money amounts over a long time span, is to look at how long a person would have to work to earn that much. William Hoffman in Random Notes Concerning Settlers of Dutch Descent in TAG vol 29, pp. 65 -76 shows that a farm hands earned about 100 to 150 guilders per year. If you scan down the notarial records in NNC vol 5 you will see that this is a very good estimate. I see many men contracting to work for about 120 guilders per year. You can also look at prices. Hoffman has that a mare cost 200 gl. Regards, Howard [email protected]

John Brittian, son of Nathaniel and Elizabeth Gerritsen, and his wife Eve Dorland were childless. Judy Cassidy Jun 7, 2011 04:24:04 PM, [email protected] wrote: =========================================== I am not sure who the parents are. The two sets I think might be are John Brittain (son of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen) and Rachel Wall or Nicholas Brittain and his wife (name unknown) that I have seen some believe is his father. Wish I could be of more help. I have no proof as to what is correct. Thanks for the date for Samuel; I didn't have that. Sally Shreeve I should add that, although I have found no other information on Nathaniel, his wife was born 11 Oct 1740, in Hopewell Township, Hunterdon Co., NJ, so one might guess that Nathaniel would have been born around 1740 or earlier. I have so far found a date of birth for only one of Nathaniel's children, the youngest, Samuel, who was born 17 Mar 1779, according to his tombstone. The only record I have been able to get a hold of for Nathaniel Brittain is his probate file. Carol Anne > Hello Sally, > > Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I > have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married > Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His > children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, > Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. > > Carol Anne > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: >> I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time. I >> am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them. If you have >> any different information, please let me know. >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders >> Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >> I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect >> Rachel Brittain or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. >> 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 >> Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette >> >> Rachel Brittain >> abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 >> Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell >> Married Thomas Dongan >> >> Thank you, >> Sally Britton Shreeve >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I should add that, although I have found no other information on Nathaniel, his wife was born 11 Oct 1740, in Hopewell Township, Hunterdon Co., NJ, so one might guess that Nathaniel would have been born around 1740 or earlier. I have so far found a date of birth for only one of Nathaniel's children, the youngest, Samuel, who was born 17 Mar 1779, according to his tombstone. The only record I have been able to get a hold of for Nathaniel Brittain is his probate file. Carol Anne > Hello Sally, > > Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I > have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married > Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His > children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, > Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. > > Carol Anne > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve  wrote: >> I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time.  I am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them.  If you have any different information, please let me know. >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders >> Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >>                                                                      I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect >> Rachel Brittain                                                 or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. >> 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 >> Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette >> >> Rachel Brittain >> abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 >> Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell >> Married Thomas Dongan >> >> Thank you, >> Sally Britton Shreeve >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Sally, Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. Carol Anne On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve <[email protected]> wrote: > I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time.  I am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them.  If you have any different information, please let me know. > > Rachel Brittain > 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders > Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >                                                                      I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect > Rachel Brittain                                                 or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. > 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen > > Rachel Brittain > 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 > Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette > > Rachel Brittain > abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 > Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell > Married Thomas Dongan > > Thank you, > Sally Britton Shreeve > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am not sure who the parents are. The two sets I think might be are John Brittain (son of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen) and Rachel Wall or Nicholas Brittain and his wife (name unknown) that I have seen some believe is his father. Wish I could be of more help. I have no proof as to what is correct. Thanks for the date for Samuel; I didn't have that. Sally Shreeve I should add that, although I have found no other information on Nathaniel, his wife was born 11 Oct 1740, in Hopewell Township, Hunterdon Co., NJ, so one might guess that Nathaniel would have been born around 1740 or earlier. I have so far found a date of birth for only one of Nathaniel's children, the youngest, Samuel, who was born 17 Mar 1779, according to his tombstone. The only record I have been able to get a hold of for Nathaniel Brittain is his probate file. Carol Anne > Hello Sally, > > Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I > have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married > Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His > children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, > Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. > > Carol Anne > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: >> I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time. I >> am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them. If you have >> any different information, please let me know. >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders >> Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >> I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect >> Rachel Brittain or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. >> 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 >> Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette >> >> Rachel Brittain >> abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 >> Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell >> Married Thomas Dongan >> >> Thank you, >> Sally Britton Shreeve >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for the suggestions on where I can get additional information. It is my opinion that Elizabeth Brittain who married Lambert Dorland was the daughter of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders, not Elizabeth Gerritsen. I am enclosing my notes on the Nathaniel married to Elizabeth Saunders. The mistake was probably made when he refers to his mother, Mary Gerritsen who originally was Mary Duschene but on her third marriage was married to Judge Lambert Garrison. (Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen had more than one son). MAR: The marriage of Nathaniel Brittaine and Elizabeth Saunders (by license) is recorded in "Baptismal and Marriage Records 1704-1713" extracted from the journal of Rev. John Sharpe, and was published in "The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography" Vol XXIII (1899) by the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. Page 105 contains the record, which says: "Nathaniel Brittain & Elizabeth Saunders, Apl. 18, 1710." HIS: Elmer Garfield Van Name provided the following (page 32) : 1715, Apr 13. Nathaniel Brittin, yeoman, of Richmond county, on acount of love and affection for his mother, Mary Brittin, of the same place, conveyed to her one acre of land lying on the south side of Staten Island, and also the privilege of cutting wood upon his land. Nathaniel Britton signed the deed, and his wife Elizabeth made her mark. They acknowledged the deed as a voluntary gift before Nathaniel Britton, Justice, in 1715. 　 Children: John Britton married at the Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia, Jan. 24, 1751 Eve Dorland. Elizabeth Britton married 18 Sep 1731 Lambert Dorland in the First Prebyterian Church, Philadelphia, PA: They had issue John and Lambert Dorland as per will of John Brittain. Mary Britton baptised 6 Oct 1724; married May 18, 1744, Nicholas Vansant who died May 1, 1801. She died March, 1808. Ann Britton baptised 3 Mar 1727-1728; probably died young. Rachel Britton born 29 Dec 1724; died 14 Feb 1814; married, 22 Oct 1747 at Abington Curch Issac Billiou (BRI HIS 009) BIR: "Stillwell Genealogy" p. 125 shows that on 13 Apr 1715 Nathaniel Brittin, yeoman of Richmond County on account of love and affection for his mother, Mary Britten conveyed to her one acres of land lying on the south side of Staten Island, and also the privilege of cutting wood upon his land. Signed the deed with his wife Elizabeth. (BRI HIS 009) HIS: 1715. Nathaniel Brittain was a private in the Richmond county Militia. There were three of this Christian name in the same company, one a lieutenant, and two privates. (BRI HIS 009) Moved early from Staten Island to PA. HIS: See Elmer Garfield Van Name's Britton Genealogy, published by the Gloucester County Historical Society in October 1970. On pages 107-108, he wrote: Nathaniel Britton, b 1688, the son of Nathaniel Britton and Mary, his wife, married 13 April 1710 to Elizabeth Saunders [PMHB 23:105]. Having sold his property on Staten Island, he removed to Abington, Montgomery, PA where he became one of the organizers of the Presbyterian Church there. WILL: Dated June 15, 1754; proved May 13, 1760 in which he stated that he was a resident of Bybury, Philadelphia, PA and signed his name Nathaniel Brittain. He mentioned: "wife Elizabeth; my mother, Mary Garrison, who received a legacy during her life, conditioned on dwelling with his wife and son; only son John; eldest daugther Elizabeth Durland; daughter Mary Vansandt; daughter Rachel; sons-in-law, Nicholas Vansandt and Isaac Belue. Executors: John Brittain, Nicholas Vansandt, and Isaac Belue. Wit: John Worthington (his mark), William Walmsley, Sarah Walmsley Hope this helps, Sally Shreeve > Lambert Dorland bap 21 Oct. 1707, Staten Island, married Elizabeth > Brittain, dau. of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth, daughter of Jan > Gerritsen, originally of Staten Island while his sister Eve Dorland, bap. > 3 April 1720 who married John Brittain, only son of Nathaniel Brittain and > Elizabeth Gerritsen of Staten Island. Their parents were Jan Dorland and > Barbara Van Nuys. (Dorland Enigma Solved, pp 254-255 &. 267-268). You > might check at the Montgomery County PA Hist. Society, Norristown, PA, as > well as the PA Hist and Gen. Society in Philadelphia as they have both an > excellent collections. Lambert Dorland lived in Abington Twp, Moreland > Manor, then Philadelphia County, PA. Elizabeth was named in the will of > her father living in Byberry, Philadelphia County, 15 June 1754, pvd. 12 > May 1760, [Philadelphia Co. Wills, 1747-1763, Collections of the > Genealogical Society of PA V:1348, abstracting PA Will Bk, L:285, rec. > 444; Eve and her husband also lived in Byberry. > > Judy Cassidy > > > Jun 7, 2011 02:35:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > =========================================== > > Hello Sally, > > Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I > have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married > Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His > children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, > Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. > > Carol Anne > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: >> I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time. I >> am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them. If you have >> any different information, please let me know. >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders >> Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >> I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect >> Rachel Brittain or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. >> 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 >> Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen >> >> Rachel Brittain >> 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 >> Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette >> >> Rachel Brittain >> abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 >> Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell >> Married Thomas Dongan >> >> Thank you, >> Sally Britton Shreeve >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lambert Dorland bap 21 Oct. 1707, Staten Island, married Elizabeth Brittain, dau. of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth, daughter of Jan Gerritsen, originally of Staten Island while his sister Eve Dorland, bap. 3 April 1720 who married John Brittain, only son of Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen of Staten Island. Their parents were Jan Dorland and Barbara Van Nuys. (Dorland Enigma Solved, pp 254-255 &. 267-268). You might check at the Montgomery County PA Hist. Society, Norristown, PA, as well as the PA Hist and Gen. Society in Philadelphia as they have both an excellent collections. Lambert Dorland lived in Abington Twp, Moreland Manor, then Philadelphia County, PA. Elizabeth was named in the will of her father living in Byberry, Philadelphia County, 15 June 1754, pvd. 12 May 1760, [Philadelphia Co. Wills, 1747-1763, Collections of the Genealogical Society of PA V:1348, abstracting PA Will Bk, L:285, rec. 444; Eve and her husband also lived in Byberry. Judy Cassidy Jun 7, 2011 02:35:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: =========================================== Hello Sally, Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. Carol Anne On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: > I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time.  I am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them.  If you have any different information, please let me know. > > Rachel Brittain > 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders > Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >                                                                      I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect > Rachel Brittain                                                 or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. > 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen > > Rachel Brittain > 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 > Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette > > Rachel Brittain > abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 > Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell > Married Thomas Dongan > > Thank you, > Sally Britton Shreeve > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jun 7, 2011 02:35:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: =========================================== Hello Sally, Would you happen to have any information on a Nathaniel Brittain? I have never been able to discover who his parents were. He married Thisbe Anderson. He died in Hunterdon County, NJ on 8 Feb 1803. His children were Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Francina (Frankey), John, Nathaniel, Cornelius, William, Anderson, and Samuel. Carol Anne On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Sally Shreeve wrote: > I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time.  I am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them.  If you have any different information, please let me know. > > Rachel Brittain > 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders > Married Issac Bullew or Billiou >                                                                      I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect > Rachel Brittain                                                 or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. > 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 > Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen > > Rachel Brittain > 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 > Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette > > Rachel Brittain > abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 > Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell > Married Thomas Dongan > > Thank you, > Sally Britton Shreeve > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Renee Thank you for posting the Flatlands records. Most Grateful! Cleaver White Sent from my iPhone On Jun 6, 2011, at 10:43 PM, E Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Renee, > > This is a fine set of records from Flatlands. These will be useful to > many researchers. Thanks very much for making the website & installing > these transcriptions & translations available. > > Best wishes, > Liz J > > On 6 June 2011 18:43, Renee Dauven <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Recently while working with the Flatland and Flatbush Town records, >> I found the following documents and have placed them on line at the URL >> below. >> The first one from Flatlands, I have no idea why it was created, >> what its original purpose might have been. It lists the birth dates of >> male inhabitants of Flatlands who were between the ages of 35-45. I >> have estimated that it was probably created in about 1803. If you might >> have an idea what that purpose was, I would love to hear it. If you >> find something usable in this document, be sure to give some of your >> thanks to Mike Morrissey as he helped me with some of the writing with >> which I had difficulty. >> Also on the page is a series of pages taken from the Flatbush Town >> Records which were accountings from the records of the Flatbush DRC for >> about 1661-1664. They listed some burials and payments paid or still >> due for burials and for some marriages. It doesn't give the name of the >> bride or groom and the payer may not always be the groom (might be the >> bride's father, for example) but it might help to narrow down when a >> marriage took place in a family. >> The page is plain vanilla at the moment but it is the content that >> matters, right? >> >> http://notmyfamily.pbworks.com/w/page/40982114/FrontPage >> >> Renee L. Dauven > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What a nice surprise. Over 30 replies to my query, dated 4 June 2011, Cozyn Gerritsen Cozyn and Vroutje Gerrits. I want to thank everyone for a lively, interesting, and informative discussion. Lots of new ideas, suggestions, opinions etc. etc. The Dutch Colonies website is still 'The Best of the Best'. Chris Chester wrote: Regarding the apparent age of 12y 11m for Margriet at the time of her first marriage, I would add for your consideration the article, "Some New Light on Aeltje Braconie and Maria Badie," by Harry Macy, Jr., published in NYGBR 142 (2011):21-36, in which he states the case for Magdalena Verdon being only age 13 at the time of her marriage on 21 March 1645 (RDC New Amsterdam). Although, there is no baptism record for Magdalena, and her age of 13 is based upon the assumption that she gave birth to a son, Daniel, in 1678, the article does accept the premise that a girl could be married as young as 13 during the earlier part of the 17th century in New Netherland, when it was governed by the Dutch. Thanks Chris. This is a must read article by Harry Macy. He wrote that some failed to recognize that the extreme shortage of marriageable women in the colony at the time was causing girls to marry when just a few months past their 13th birthdays. For example, Maria Rapalje married in 1640 at 13 years, 8 or 9 months, and her sister Jannetje Rapalje in 1642 at 13 years 4 or 5 months. Both were, like Magdalena Verdon, natives of the colony. This was a temporary phenomenon, lasting only until the colony attained a normal balance of the sexes. When the younger Rapalje sisters Catelyntje and Annetie married in 1663-64, they were 23 and 17 respectively. The above article helped me make a decision. "The extreme shortage of marriageable women in the colony at the time' was their common sense solution to their problem. Survival of the fittest? Knowing that there were other children besides Margariet Cozyn married at that point in time, did not please me, but helped me make a decision. My final decision. Margariet Cozyn d/o Cozyn Gerritzen bp 5 May 1641. [NYDC 2:12] married (1) Herman Theuniszen VanZell 19 April 1654 when Margariet/Grietje was 12 years, 11 months old. She married (2) Jan Haring Witsuntide 1662 and had seven children. She married (3) Daniel DeClark, 4 March 1685. Thanks again, Ethel Kay Konight (mailto:[email protected])

Renee, This is a fine set of records from Flatlands. These will be useful to many researchers. Thanks very much for making the website & installing these transcriptions & translations available. Best wishes, Liz J On 6 June 2011 18:43, Renee Dauven <[email protected]> wrote: >     Recently while working with the Flatland and Flatbush Town records, > I found the following documents and have placed them on line at the URL > below. >     The first one from Flatlands, I have no idea why it was created, > what its original purpose might have been.  It lists the birth dates of > male inhabitants of Flatlands who were between the ages of 35-45.  I > have estimated that it was probably created in about 1803.  If you might > have an idea what that purpose was, I would love to hear it.   If you > find something usable in this document, be sure to give some of your > thanks to Mike Morrissey as he helped me with some of the writing with > which I had difficulty. >     Also on the page is a series of pages taken from the Flatbush Town > Records which were accountings from the records of the Flatbush DRC for > about 1661-1664.  They listed some burials and payments paid or still > due for burials and for some marriages.  It doesn't give the name of the > bride or groom and the payer may not always be the groom (might be the > bride's father, for example) but it might help to narrow down when a > marriage took place in a family. >     The page is plain vanilla at the moment but it is the content that > matters, right? > > http://notmyfamily.pbworks.com/w/page/40982114/FrontPage > > Renee L. Dauven

I have four Rachel Brittains in my data base born about the same time. I am interested in whether I have the correct dates for them. If you have any different information, please let me know. Rachel Brittain 29 Dec 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 or 2 Oct 1814 Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Saunders Married Issac Bullew or Billiou I doubt these both died the same day, so probably one is incorrect Rachel Brittain or the 2 Oct 1814 is correct. 2 Oct 1724 - 14 Feb 1814 Parents: Nathaniel Brittain and Elizabeth Gerritsen Rachel Brittain 1 Mar 1723 or 1 Mar 1724 Parents: Benjamin Brittain and Maude Latourette Rachel Brittain abt 1724 - 25 Apr 1748 Parents: Nicholas Brittain and Frances stillwell Married Thomas Dongan Thank you, Sally Britton Shreeve

Recently while working with the Flatland and Flatbush Town records, I found the following documents and have placed them on line at the URL below. The first one from Flatlands, I have no idea why it was created, what its original purpose might have been. It lists the birth dates of male inhabitants of Flatlands who were between the ages of 35-45. I have estimated that it was probably created in about 1803. If you might have an idea what that purpose was, I would love to hear it. If you find something usable in this document, be sure to give some of your thanks to Mike Morrissey as he helped me with some of the writing with which I had difficulty. Also on the page is a series of pages taken from the Flatbush Town Records which were accountings from the records of the Flatbush DRC for about 1661-1664. They listed some burials and payments paid or still due for burials and for some marriages. It doesn't give the name of the bride or groom and the payer may not always be the groom (might be the bride's father, for example) but it might help to narrow down when a marriage took place in a family. The page is plain vanilla at the moment but it is the content that matters, right? http://notmyfamily.pbworks.com/w/page/40982114/FrontPage Renee L. Dauven

Hi Willard, I have Gerrit Goosens Van Schiack 1585 m. MarrigjeBarends 1590 and all of their children on my website at www.angelfire.com/ga4/myhayes_family/. Richard