Hi Eileen This may be of interest - you will find the Lucy here. Database of ships http://www.reach.net/~sc001198/Lloyds.htm Maybe someone will have some ideas for my own mystery. My step-grandfather - a ships engineer, evaded the 1901 census. Born Mark Langford in 1876, he ran away to sea and changed his name - later known as Mark Turnbull. Neither name appears on the census - I have searched everywhere, including all vessels. However, I have found a double entry for an 'Alex Turnbull' - he appears both at home in South Shields and at sea aboard the SS Stephanotis - definitely the same. I have recently learnt that Mark stole ID papers from a dying man so that he could join a ship. This could be the ID he stole - and later kept the Turnbull part. Any ideas how I could pursue this theory? Any suggestions gratefully received!RegardsJill Turner > From: jennyda@terra.es> To: eileen.sturt@tiscali.co.uk; DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:27:39 +0100> Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] duplicated message re Forster, Williamson etc.> > HI Eileen,> > Not all vessels that were at sea during the 1871 census are included in the > online census at Ancestry, the Lucy may not have gone down at all but might > just be one of the ships not included in the images of that census online. > If the Lucy was a Merchant vessel then she probably is not included in the > 1871 images, if however, she was a Royal Naval vessel then she probably > would have been included.> > You would need to check things like the Lloyd's list of shipping and such > like. The Mariners website should be helpful with ideas of what you need to > look at to find out if the Lucy went down or what happened to her. You > could also ask on the Mariners mailing list whether anyone knows anything > about the Lucy, give them what details you can about her, say that your > ancestor died between the 1861 and 1871 and you wonder whether the Lucy went > down during that period, and see if anyone can add anything further.> > One way to check is to go to the Ancestry site, select a census, for > instance the 1871, then when you get up the search pane rather than fill > that in a search, scroll down to below the search fields and you will see a > list of county names and in amongst those would be Vessels, if merchant > vessels are included, and also you should see Royal Navy which will give you > the link to Vessel and the alphabetical list of ships names that I gave you > yesterday. You should be able to do this on all the census except the 1841 > and 1851.> > Ships at sea and in British ports were not included in the 1841 census at > all, only people who slept the night of census night on dry land were > included in that census.> > The 1851 did include ships that were in British ports but not those that > were in sea, but these are not online as they have not all been kept by the > national archive, as I understand it from my enquiries into the ships > schedules of the 1851.> > The 1861 census was the first census to include not only ships in British > ports but also those that were on the high seas and in foreign ports on > census night. The master of each vessel was given the schedule for his ship > before his ship sailed on the voyage that would take her away over census > night. The master duly filled out the schedule and handed it in at his > first port of call where there was either a British Consul, if in a foreign > country or to the General Registrar at a British port. This is my > understanding of things. The later census included ships at sea and in > ports in the same way.> > I have the image of my ancestors, merchant, ship from the 1861 and that > first page of the schedule giving the ships details shows the compass > position that she was at midnight on census night, this compass position > shows that she was off the coast of Lowestoft Suffolk and 6 miles from the > Dudgeon Light. I was told by the subscribers to the Mariners list what the > compass position meant and that the Dudgeon light was a light ship, anchored > out at sea rather than a lighthouse on land, but today it is a light bouy. > You can see from this how useful that first side of the schedule of a ship > at sea can be if you can get hold of one.> > Another thing I got hold of was the crew lists from 1860 for the same vessel > on LDS film. You need the ships registration number so that you can order > the correct film, the film that contains that ships number. The crew list > showed me how much each crew member was paid for the voyage and what > position they signed on as.> > Those same crew lists also told me the number of the masters certificate > that my ancestor held and from that I was able to order a copy of that > certificate and the testimonials that went with it form the National > Maritime Museum Greenwich London. So you can learn a lot about a man who > went to sea on a merchant vessel, which you imply your mariners did once > they left the navy.> > Regards> Jenny DeAngelis.> Spain.> > > Eileen Wrote> << I found a John Williamson on board the ship "Lucy" in 1861, a> cook and able seaman from Lerwick, Shetland and discovered that "Lucy" was> then in Hamburg. Going back from there, it looks like my Grandfather could> have been right about the Scottish connection because there was one John> Williamson born in Lerwick with a father called Thomas! Now I need to find> out where and when John died between 1861 and 1867 when his wife died, a> widow. The Lucy is not listed for the 1871 census so perhaps she went down,> taking my g.g. grandfather with her? >>> > > > > > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ====> To Post a message to this list send it to,> DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ====> List Web Page> http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HI Eilieen, I might have had a stroke of luck with your elder John Williamson,provided of course that he too was a Mariner as his sons later became. Of course I could be barking up completely the wrong tree but I couldn't not pass this on to you just in case it is of use. I went to the 1871 census and typed in John Williamson and nothing else apart from putting into the keyword box the one word - vessels. I got up 11 results and there was only one John Williamson with a connection to Scotland. He is shown as born about 1831 West Lothian Scotland but is on board a vessel in Northumberland. I am wondering if this might be the father of your Thomas and John Williamson? I went to the image and found that he is on board a ship called Britannia, he is shown as born a Linlithgow and is aged 40 and married, his position on board the ship is as Fireman. I then went to the first page of the schedule, by following the Vessel link at the top of the page as I described to you before in my ealire message. Once I got up the front page of the schedule for the Britannia I saw that she was registered at Leith Scotland and her registration number is given, she was a Paddle Steamer working in the Coasting Trade. At midnight on census night she was at Newcastle Quay. This entry might be worth following up, if you think it is then you could perhaps check the LDS Family History LIbrary Catalogue to see if they have Crew Lists at all on film for 1870-1871 and if so select the film that contains the relevant range of Ships numbers which contains the number of the Britannia. You could then hire that film at your nearest LDS for a small fee and once it arrives go and look at it to see a little more about John Williamson when he signed on for the voyage/s on board the Britannia. The ref. for this entry of the 1871 is RG10 piece5111 folio138 no page numbers for ships as you have the name of the ship instead. My Gt. Gt. Grandfather was a mariner from North Shields and later sailed from Hartlepool where the family moved to. He was a Master Mariner and mastered a ship which he was part owner of. The ship was in the Coasting trade, this meant that he could only sail around the coast of England but it also meant that he could sail across to Hamburg, his ship was a collier brig and he was entitled to call at any port along the coast that had a coal dock, according to the crew lists I found for his ship. His sons went to sea with their father as apprentices and my Gt. Grandfather became a Master Mariner too later on but he went further afield on his voyages. Hope this is not too muddly to make sense of and that it does help. Regards Jenny DeAngelis. Spain.