Hi list looking for information on the parents of William Reed birth given 1705 Bishop Middleham (cant find this in Peacocks BDM cd) William married Jane Mobray 1730 at Bishop Middleham, gratefull for any help Regards James

Hi All Ancestry has Scotland census 1851 and 1861 on from today. Ive found some of hubbys Tyneside Irish family already. (they came via Paisley) Yippee! Carol

as they were Catholics the marriage could have been annuled leaving her free to marry again in a catholic church. What the legal requirements were at that time i've no idea but could the marriage been annuled legally? what does the 2nd Cert. say as to her status IE single / widowed. as to 2 names I am legally Patricia Ann & most people know me as Pat but my family call me Ann. pat in morden surrey

Hello, As I recall it, Ancestry used to use FreeBDM for their Birth marriage and death information and as such it was not complete, as all the records had not ben transcribed. However now that they use digital photographs of the GRO Indexes, the Ancestry files are a complete records for the years 1837 to 1983. Can someone please confirm this. Thanks Ralph

Hi Ralph & List Yes & no Ancestry offer the FreeBMD index as it is and also as a way of accessing an image of the GRO index page that carries the family name you are interested in. Ancestry also have a search facility based on the first and last name of each page on the index / quarter - the name you want may or may not be on each index page that the search result lists - you then have to check each page image. HTH Chris, Cheshire UK Researching GELLEY & MATHER > As I recall it, Ancestry used to use FreeBDM for their Birth marriage and > death information and as such it was not complete, as all the records had > not ben transcribed. > However now that they use digital photographs of the GRO Indexes, the > Ancestry files are a complete records for the years 1837 to 1983. > Can someone please confirm this > Ralph

This reminds me of my Grandmother who was in the Durham - Spennymoor region and then over Wakefield way as a young girl and teenager, and later young lady marrying aged about 25. She always used to say to me, when as a child I asked for something extravagant, "Heavens child! You'll have us all in the poor house!" Now, I realize it was a very real fear for her - her mother brought up six children by taking in hand washing - sheets the lot, all done by hand. Poor lady! I just wonder, given that memory, if the folks called it the poor house instead of the workhouse back those days? I guess mostly "poor" people went to it and there was a stigma attached to it - I can see how the name would arise, if it did. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stanmapstone@aol.com Sent: Monday, 27 November 2006 7:46 PM To: DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] poor house In a message dated 27/11/2006 00:17:23 GMT Standard Time, jtemperl@bigpond.net.au writes: I have a girl of 13 years listed in the poor house for one census but no other member of her Family. ______________________________________________________________ Do you mean the Workhouse? What was her name and which census? Regards Stan Mapstone -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.16/552 - Release Date: 26/11/2006 11:30 AM

> I found my Grandfather was in both the East York's & the West York's in WW1, > he had different Army Numbers for each Regiment which I thought was odd as > they usually kept the same number throughout the Military Service. > I found his number on one of his Medals, I looked over Kew Military records > found he had a second one. > Has anyone came across this before. > Bob > > Dear Bob, > Regimental numbers remained until 1919. From 1920 it was then an army number was issued and remained with them irrespective of how many regiments they enlisted in. My own Great Grandfather, had two regiments in WW1, so did my Granddad and they both had two regimental numbers. My Dad was in three regiments during his Army service 1933 to 1945, and he kept the same service number throughout. John.

Does anyone have a connection with Thomas Manners from Newcastle, born approximately 1780, naval seaman? Cheers, Ian -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 27/11/2006

I found my Grandfather was in both the East York's & the West York's in WW1, he had different Army Numbers for each Regiment which I thought was odd as they usually kept the same number throughout the Military Service. I found his number on one of his Medals, I looked over Kew Military records found he had a second one. Has anyone came across this before. Bob

I have a girl of 13 years listed in the poor house for one census but no other member of her Family. Can anyone explain how? Her parents were alive for the next census. She was working as a servant, not living at hame. thanking you in advance Ralph

In message <000601c711bb$7b977af0$8aa3c050@joyceb8ojaau1z>, joyce <j.batt@blueyonder.co.uk> writes >Hi all, > >Just joined this list to try to find my gr.gr.grandmother Hannah BURN. >>From various census details she gives her birthplace as >>Cockerton,Durham,in 1796. > >Am I right in thinking that the nearest place she could have been >christened would have been at Darlington? >Also,could Darlington be under north yorkshire as well as Durham? > >Best wishes, >Joyce Hello Joyce, From a fiche index to Darlington St Cuthbert baptisms 1798-1812 there were several BURN families in the area. Unfortunately Hannah must have been christened before the start of the index, and there are no other indexes for Darlington , so you would need to see the parish records. St Cuthbert was the only parish church at that date. Darlington has always been in Co. Durham. Regards, -- Helen Oram

The words poorhouse and workhouse were often used fairly interchangeably. After 1834, the institutions established by Poor Law Unions, administered by Guardians of the Poor, in which paupers were lodged and the able-bodied set to work, were always known as workhouses. The term poorhouse was often used in England prior to 1834 for parish establishments housing paupers where there was no resident master or matron, and where there little or no work was required of the inmates. Pauper establishments in Scotland were also invariably known as poorhouses (or poor's houses), perhaps reflecting that fact that they did not cater for the able-bodied and therefore imposed no requirement for deterrent work. See http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Apparently the official name became Poor-law Institution after 1912. Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 27/11/2006 00:17:23 GMT Standard Time, jtemperl@bigpond.net.au writes: I have a girl of 13 years listed in the poor house for one census but no other member of her Family. ______________________________________________________________ Do you mean the Workhouse? What was her name and which census? Regards Stan Mapstone

Hi all, Just joined this list to try to find my gr.gr.grandmother Hannah BURN. >From various census details she gives her birthplace as Cockerton,Durham,in 1796. I can find no mention of her birth on IGI & am not able to check any films or fiches anymore,due to illness. Am I right in thinking that the nearest place she could have been christened would have been at Darlington? Also,could Darlington be under north yorkshire as well as Durham? Hannah married George THOMPSON at Stokesley on the 19th July 1825. She could have already had a daughter,Mary,born 1816 at Stokesley,mother Hannah Burn,not many other BURN's in the area. Also,in the 1841 census for Stokesley,there is an Alice THOMPSON with the family,aged 20,but no birth for her either. She could have been Hannahs daughter before marriage again,as see below. >From the IGI,an Alice BURN ,has a son in 1844 called George,but he died in 1845,could this be a coincidence,or is this the same Alice Thompson,living with family in 1841,but really Alice BURN. Any suggestions on how to sort this out would be greatfully recieved,as I have been trying to sort this out for 5 years now,but cant get any nearer. George Thompson & Hannah Burn were the parents of George Thompson,born 1835 at Stokesley,who married Jane ABBOTT in 1855 at Richmond.(Jane's father was Joseph Abbott born 1813 at Richmond. One of his brothers George Brown ABBOTT,moved to Bishop Auckland inbetween 1847 & 1850) Their daughter Alice THOMPSON married William ELY in Skipton in 1896 & my father was born in 1907(the ELY line is just as hard,it stops at 1822). I would be grateful for any ideas or if anyone can see something I have missed. Best wishes, Joyce

Thanks for the reply. Concerning- " From the Medal Roll Thompson, John W. Private. >no.12/1036 East > Yorkshire Regiment > > Some Regiments had the Battalion Number included in the >Regimental number. So this means he was in 12th >Battalion." I had looked at the medal rolls before, unfortunately after this entry there are another seven John W.Thompsons in the East Yorks, with the Regimental Nos. 205220,30005,8495, 202116,24501,19345 & 39901 and no way of determining which one is the right one. If the numbers run consecutively in a recruiting office then the numbers of any others joining up at the nearest recruiting office to Houghton-le-Spring at the very start of WW1 might give a clue. Jennifer

Hi Betty, You've already confirmed that the older wife was a widow, but was her daughter also a widow? My guess is that one or both were in receipt of Parish Relief through the Poor Law Union, thus the Pauper label. It was common and more economical for it to be offered as Outdoor Relief, which supported them in their own home rather than to move a whole family into the Workhouse, and relief was usually granted where a person was unable to fully support themselves and/or their family because of age or handicap and they had no other means of support. Regards, Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: Bette McIntosh To: DUR-NBL@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: [DUR-NBL] "Pauper, family coal miner's wife" Dear Listers, Given that I do understand the meaning of the conventional term "pauper" as it relates to a person without any personal means of support, other than from welfare or charity. I welcome comments on how this terminology would apply to a 1861 Crawcrook, Gateshead Census for a family of eight persons whose head was a woman, age 68 years, who lived with a married daughter, age 30 years, and six grand-children of various ages & surnames. In the census column headed " Rank, Profession or Occupation" I read "Pauper, family coal miner's wife". Would I assume from this that the household was living on a dole; a stipend of money, food etc. given at regular intervals in charity? Would this have been the case even thought the family was residing in their own home and not in a workhouse setting? Was it a common practice in the UK during the time period to enumerate such circumstances, in the census, in such a public manner? Thank you, Bette ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All, Hope my pic was of interest and the offer still stands. I am enjoying this thread but missed the bit where you posted service numbers..... ''my'' Robert Moore was No. 13507 .. Regards, Neil. http://groups.msn.com/AtterbyFamilyHistory

Hello Grant Thanks very much for putting these on the list. Although none of my ancestors have been on here, I'm sure that someone from the list will be able to spot one of their ancestors. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: G STAINES To: dur-nbl@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: [DUR-NBL] St Johns Westgate and Elswick Burials 9 Hello List This is the last batch for now that is as far as I have reached in the Register up to now Surname Given Name Age Address Year Month Day SIMPSON George Henry 3 1/2 mts 74 Temple Street 1906 AUG 14 MULDOON James 54yrs 68 Tulloch Street 1916 JAN 10

Hello List This is the last batch for now that is as far as I have reached in the Register up to now Surname Given Name Age Address Year Month Day SIMPSON George Henry 3 1/2 mts 74 Temple Street 1906 AUG 14 MULDOON James 54yrs 68 Tulloch Street 1916 JAN 10 MUSGROVE Edward J 59yrs 192 Westmorland Road 1916 FEB 11 BAXTER Elizabeth M 26yrs 42 Northbourne Street 1916 FEB 26 MONK Annie 48yrs St Margarets Road West 1916 APR 26 LONERGAN James 73yrs 77 Back Hawes Street 1916 JUN 7 MULDOON Rosanna 16yrs 68 Tulloch Street 1916 JUL 13 LAMBTON James W 74yrs 56 Clumber Street 1916 JUL 22 MCELDERRY Edward 52yrs 511 Scotswood Road 1916 OCT 28 BUTLER John 5mts Poor Law Infirmary 1916 NOV 25 DAWSON Violet F 11mts 68 Rendel Street 1916 DEC 31 BUTLER Clara I S 27yrs 91 Stone Street 1917 JAN 14 BUTLER Mary 23yrs 29 Bowman Street 1917 FEB 8 PYLE John R 56yrs The Rectory Preston 1917 APR 14 DAWSON William 68yrs 37 Dilston Road 1917 APR 17 BAXTER Ralph Laidler 34yrs Duke Street 1875 NOV 22 STEPHENSON Ellen or Margaret 81yrs Union Workhouse 1875 NOV 23 LAMBTON Mary 56yrs Clayton Street 1875 DEC 14 LAMBTON George 36yrs Wellington Street 1877 MAY 16 PYLE Henry 5mts Stowell Street 1879 FEB 23 PYLE Fanny 5mts Stowell Street 1879 FEB 23 HANLON Ann 73yrs St Josephs Home 1917 OCT 16 BUTLER Mary E 62yrs 44 Barrack Road 1918 JAN 3 MULDOON Elizabeth 70yrs St Josephs Home 1918 JAN 26 PYLE William E 5mts 540 Scotswood Road 1918 MAR 13 HUDDLESTON Edward C 16yrs 91 St Johns Road 1918 AUG 29 BUTLER Mary 72yrs St Josephs Home 1918 SEP 16 BERGEN James 76yrs St Josephs Home 1919 JAN 17 LAMBTON Jane A 76yrs 56 Clumber Street 1919 FEB 16 HARLAND Ellen E 26yrs 15 Juliet Street 1919 FEB 19 MULGROVE Mary 43yrs 11 Rendel Street 1919 MAR 8 REDDY William 53yrs 20 Herbert Street 1919 APR 18 MULDOON Charles Valentine 57yrs 18 Diana Street 1919 JUN 25 Grant

Dear List, Thanks to all who responded to my query regarding burial information and British Death Certificates. I will look into the possibility of learning more on the www.durhamrecordsonline.com website (thanks Ian). Thanks too to Colin for the information regarding the "Pauper" terminology and the Parish Relief through the Poor Law Union. Perhaps, due to the recognized hardships of a coal miner's lifestyle, there was no stigma attached to such public declarations of one's socio-economical circumstances especially when the cause of the destitution was widowhood. Best wishes, Bette