Hi Bette, Your email brought back memories for me. I was born and brought up in Low Spennymoor. Low Spennymoor is a part of Spennymoor. Low Spennymoor was centred around collieries (mines) and ironworks. The streets were rows and rows of terrace houses, some back to back. Most of the area was demolished during the slum clearance programme in the 1950s Ferryhill is a town about a mile away. I can remember pitmen walking along a pathway to Dean & Chapter colliery in Ferryhill. Other mines in the area were Tudhoe Colliery, Tudhoe Mill Drift, Whitworth, Leasingthorne, Chilton, Mainsforth, Fishburn, Trimdon. Men from Low Spennymoor used to catch special buses to the various surrounding collieries. Durham Records Office have excellent large scale maps of the area, possibly from the dates you seek....Good Luck...Shaun

Hi Bette This gives an idea of places, but its more recent than your death. Bearing in mind that miners often worked in pits in neighbouring villages to where they lived, I would consider all nearby mines. Take a look at Durham Mining museum for nearby pits to eg. Im thinking it will say Spennymoor by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedgefield_(borough) Take a look at Durham Mining museum for nearby pits to eg Spennymoor pit- or Merrington colliery as it ws called. http://www.dmm.org.uk/collnear/m033.htm Carol

Dear Listers, I apologise for sending the second message, but being new to lists, did not realise that on clicking "send" the message just disappeared instead of arriving in my "outbox" first. Obviously, I thought I had done something wrong so wrote the second message, trying to remember what I had said previously, clicked "send" and exactly the same thing happened!. When I looked at the web site, there was the first message and then it appeared also in my inbox so it had gone after all. Now, the second message has appeared and you must be wondering why! Thank you so much, Jenny De Angelis for your information about finding vessels' details from the census returns. I had previously found Thomas and John on the Wellesley and had also found a great deal of general information about the training ship movement, how and why it began etc. from various internet sources but had not discovered the vessels link before. Using that information I found a John Williamson on board the ship "Lucy" in 1861, a cook and able seaman from Lerwick, Shetland and discovered that "Lucy" was then in Hamburg. Going back from there, it looks like my Grandfather could have been right about the Scottish connection because there was one John Williamson born in Lerwick with a father called Thomas! Now I need to find out where and when John died between 1861 and 1867 when his wife died, a widow. The Lucy is not listed for the 1871 census so perhaps she went down, taking my g.g. grandfather with her? Regards, Eileen

My thanks to Stan Mapstone for the address of the holders of the Wellesley Training ship records. I will write at once, and let you know the outcome in due course. Regards, Eileen

Hi! Listers, I am new to the list, researching Forster and Williamson in the South Shields area. Frances Forster ( parents William Forster from Tanfield and Mary Unknown from Newcastle) married John Williamson ( a mariner) in 1856 at the Holy Trinity Church in Westoe, she died in 1867, already a widow. Their two orphaned sons, Thomas Forster and John William Williamson I believe were on the Training ship Wellesley at the 1871 census. If any lister knows anything at all about the records of the Wellesley, I should be most grateful for information. Hopefully they may contain a clue as to which of the many John Williamsons from Co. Durham, mainland Scotland or Shetland , was their father. The only clues I have so far are that he died after the 1861 census and before his wife died in 1867, and I know his father was called Thomas. My grandfather, Thomas Forster Williamson the second told me when I was a child that our ancestors came from Scotland and before that , they came over with the Vikings but how many generations back and was he right? Regards, Eileen

Hello All, Happy New Year to all, and a chance to post my North East interests and ask a question; My wife's family is Aitchison, & her gt-gt-grandfather was John Aitchison, born Belford 1819. He married Eleanor Hamilton, and they had children (from census); Thomas 1842 John 1847 James 1849 George 1851 Eleanor 1853 Margaret Ann 1855 William 1857 *gt-grandfather Mary Isabella 1860 Frederick 1862 My problem is I can't find a marriage for John & Eleanor. There appears to be no BMD reference from 1837 to 1849, and the Joiner Marriage Index only reports one Aitchison in Northumberland between 1830-1840, and that for a William in 1837 in Hartburn. So; firstly if there are descendants of John & Eleanor on the list I would love to hear from you, and secondly can anyone identify this marriage? Grateful for any assistance. Thankyou all. Other interests; Robert Luke, b Tanfield 1806 m Jane Smith at Tanfield 13 May 1837 Jane Charlton, b Tanfield 1843 m George Luke at Lanchester 1866 Elizabeth McGregor b Burnopfield 1880 m George Luke 1896 If you've made it this far thanks for your indulgence. Paul Hardy Wakefield, Yorks UK

Hi again Tony Further to my last post Marriages Sep 1877 Finlay Thomas Ormskirk 8b 1087 Thomas Jeannie Cubbin Ormskirk 8b 1087 Births Sep 1879 Finlay Isabella Leo N Ashton 8d 579 Births Sep 1882 Finlay Adelaide Margaret Ashton 8d 543 As transcribed on 1881 RG11 4057 19 32 Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Junction Thomas Findlay 30 Jeanie Findlay 32 Joseph O. Findlay 3 Isabella L. Findlay 1 Leonora Thomas 76 (Leonora THOMAS 76 is his MIL and is born on the Isle of Man) If you want the 1881, 1891 & 1901 pages just ask Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > Hi Everyone > Could anyone advise !! > Trying to find the parents on Thomas Cubbin FINLAY born April 1884 in > Newcastle. > Thomas married Edith JACKSON in 1911 in South Shields. > > Many thanks > > > Tony in Bristol UK

Dear Listers, I have ordered & received a copy of a County Durham death registration for a coal miner which states that the death occurred in 1870 in "Low Spennymore Ferryhill". Could someone elaborate on this information for me. What specific locale is meant by this particular reference ("Low Spennymore Ferryhill") and would there be any way of knowing from this death record which colliery location would have likely been the deceased's place of employment? Thank you & happy new year to all, Bette

Hi Tony, I have found the birth registration for your Thomas and he is not proving easy to find on the census. Perhaps mistranscribed? If however you buy the birth certificate you will find his parents names and also his mothers maiden name. He is registered in 2nd Qtr 1884 in Newcastle upon Tyne 10b, 57. Regards Jean. ----- Original Message ----- From: <tony.caple@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: [DUR-NBL] Thomas Cubbin FINLAY > Hi Everyone > Could anyone advise !! > Trying to find the parents on Thomas Cubbin FINLAY born April 1884 in > Newcastle. > Thomas married Edith JACKSON in 1911 in South Shields. > > Many thanks > > > Tony in Bristol UK > > > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== > To Post a message to this list send it to, > DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com > > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== > List Web Page > http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Tony >From the 1891 census (as transcribed on Ancestry) RG12 2900 94 18 Civil parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Jeannie Fredley 42 Joseph H Fredley 13 Leonora I Fredley 11 Adelade M Fredley 8 Thomas C Fredley 6 Elizabeth Oneil 14 This may be of interest also (the Joseph H above) Births Jun 1878 Finlay Horatio Joseph Ashton 8d 596 Marriages Mar 1915 Finlay Horatio J Oxley Elizabeth Tynemouth 10b 376 I also noted there was a researcher on Ancestry with the parents of the above detailed as being a Thomas FINLAY and Jeannie Cubbin THOMAS but try as I might I can not find them again. Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Admin for OVINGTON - HAYLOCK - SEYMOUR Lists > Hi Everyone > Could anyone advise !! > Trying to find the parents on Thomas Cubbin FINLAY born April 1884 in > Newcastle. > Thomas married Edith JACKSON in 1911 in South Shields. > > Many thanks > > > Tony in Bristol UK

In a message dated 03/01/2007 22:17:24 GMT Standard Time, eileen.sturt@tiscali.co.uk writes: The Lucy is not listed for the 1871 census so perhaps she went down, taking my g.g. grandfather with her? __________________________________________________________________________ In a speech at Newcastle-upon-Tyne in 1884 Joseph Chamberlain, President of the Board of Trade said: "We know that the miner's is a dangerous and perilous trade, but the loss of life has never been, even in the heaviest year, more than one in 315 of the persons employed. In the case of British shipping........ one in 60 of those engaged in it met with a violent death in a single year." In the 1860s the death rate among Merchant Seamen was higher than in the worst Victorian city. In 1867 one in 80 died of disease, one in 70 drowned, and one in 20 was invalided out. Regards Stan Mapstone http://www.mapstone.org http://www.one-name.org/profiles/mapstone.html

Hello and Good New Year to you all, Iam in the New Year Mood and Feel to helping Fellow Researchers, My Late Grandmother always said "it's nice to be nice" So if anyone would require any Census from 1841-1901 Orriginal Images Iam willing to Lookup and sent to that Particular Individual but Please be most Specific In Details you require. Goodnew Year to all Lee

Hi Everyone Could anyone advise !! Trying to find the parents on Thomas Cubbin FINLAY born April 1884 in Newcastle. Thomas married Edith JACKSON in 1911 in South Shields. Many thanks Tony in Bristol UK

Happy New Year listers! I'm reposting my MAKEPEACE interest in County Durham, in case the names are familiar to anyone here. I'm resonably sure that I've found my gt-gt-grandfather Thomas in the 1841 Census - he was age 15 and living with his parents Joshua and Elizabeth MAKEPEACE in Blaydon, Winlaton. Most of the family were born "Out of County" - I think in Allan Dale, in Northumberland. No trace of Joshua after that (he isn't the Joshua that dies in 1848 or in 1852 - they are both his grand-sons). Other children of Joshua and Elizabeth then were Joseph 15, Isabella 12, Elizabeth 10, Matthew 8, Rebecca 14 and Joshua 2. There must be some interest in the family I hope! Regards from David in Buckinghamshire --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

HI Eileen, Do you know that you can access the first page of the 1871 schedule for the training ship Wellesley on the Ancestry site? This first page gives details about the vessel herself, Name, Offical Number (or in this instance it says Training Ship instead as she is a Royal Navy vessel), the port to which she belongs, her tonnage, her description i.e. Type of ship, the name of the Master and lastly the date and the schedule was issued to the master and the position of the vessel at midnight on census night, 2nd April 1871. To access this page, you can do the same on the other census where Vessels are available, as they are from 1861 onwards. Go to the image showing your ancestors and look along the top of the page to see the word Vessels click on that link and it will take you to an alphabetial list of Ship's names. Scroll down to find the one that interests you. Beware though that sometimes there is more than one ship by the same name in which case you may find, as in the case of the Wellesley, that on the image, listing the seaman on board that vessel, there is a number after the name of the vessel, e.g. Wellesley 1 where your John & Thomas Williamson are both shown, or Wellesley 2. So be careful which ones schedule you look at for the ships names list. The reference for your two young men is RG10 piece 5111 folio85 Vessel Wellesley 1. (no page numbers given for vessels). In the 1861 census you an also find Merchant ships details in the same way as above. You could try the Mariners website and the Mariners Mailing list which is linked from that website. There are a lot of very helpful subscribers to the mariners mailing list and someone is bound to be able to help with the Wellesley. http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ is the URL for the Mariners site, you will find hints of researching mariners both Royal Naval and Merchant. Hope this helps Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. >I too am researching "Forster" in Co. Durham, as well as Williamson and > Reay. Frances Forster married John Williamson in 1856 in South Shields, > died aged only about 31 in 1867, already a widow. Her parents were William > Forster from Tanfield and Mary (unknown) from Newcastle. Her two children > Thomas Forster Williamson and John William Williamson I believe were on > the > training ship "Wellesley" at the 1871 census. Thomas eventually moved to > Liverpool and worked for the White Star Line but I have lost track of John > William. Does any lister know anything at all about the Wellesley records > please because they may give some clue as to which of the many John > Williamsons from South Shields or Scotland, married Frances, and fathered > the two boys.

In a message dated 02/01/2007 20:10:12 GMT Standard Time, eileen.sturt@tiscali.co.uk writes: Does any lister know anything at all about the Wellesley records please because they may give some clue as to which of the many John Williamsons from South Shields or Scotland, married Frances, and fathered the two boys. _________________________________________________________________ Records are still held at the "Wellesley Community Home with Education" Children's Home Manager Wellesley C.H.E. Links Road Blyth Northumberland NE24 3PF Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 03/01/2007 03:30:46 GMT Standard Time, stschick50@chartermi.net writes: a little confused with all the terminology of coal mining and of parishes and hundreds and districts and subdistricts and markettowns etc. I'm sure I'll catch on to it all soon. _______________________________________________ Hi Stephanie, Try http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/index.jsp and http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/types/index.jsp which describes administrative units Geography - Beginners guide http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/beginners_guide.asp Coalmining Dictionary http://website.lineone.net/~coalmining/index-page17.html Regards Stan Mapstone

Stephanie, You're quite correct, Radcliffe now is a collection of half a dozen houses about a mile south of Amble on the main coast road (A1068). The names Radcliffe and Ratcliff were interchangable and quite often Census records are recorded almost phonetically. Among the few things which survive are the school yard now used for caravan storage and a bus depot, Rose Cottage on the site of the colliery which is now a semi but was probably a detached colliery manger's house. Until 1971 there were nine rows and other assorted buildings; a club, an institute, a pub, a school, chaplaincy etc.. At the height of coal production in the area some several hundred people lived in the village. Radcliffe colliery opened in 1836 and was joined to the infant port of Amble by a waggonway at this time, first coal production was in Sept 1837, by 1896 the coal had been exhausted. Near the end of the life of Radcliffe Colliery, Newborough Colliery was built in 1892 about a mile to the SE of Radcliffe, this too was joined to Amble by an extension of the waggonway and to North Broomhill, about two mile west. This colliery ran until around the time of the Second World War. Hauxley Colliery opened in 1926 and ran until 1966, this was to the east of High Hauxley. I remember this site being opencast around the early 1970s and being able to see shafts & underground trackways being exposed and waggons tumbling down. So there was almost continuous employment to miners in this small area from around 1840 until 1966. Most the area to the east of the main road through Radcliffe was opencast in the early 1970s and this is why so little of the village remains. You can see a lot of pictures of the village at the time it was abandoned at the Sine Project website (just search Google for it). Radcliffe (or Radclyffe) comes from the Earl of Newbrugh, one time family name for this peerage (now in Italian lineage). The Earls of Newburgh owned land in and around Amble and in particular the strip of land which became the harbour for Amble, where the coals from the collieries mentioned above were loaded onto vessels. The Radcliffe name was used for the village, streets, the colliery, a seam of coal, pubs, a working men's club and locally renowned bricks made at Amble using the fireclay from the colliery. Also there is even today a Newborough Street in Amble. Hope this helps Gary Park -----Original Message----- From: dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Schickinger Sent: 02 January 2007 02:25 To: DUR-NBL@rootsweb.com Subject: [DUR-NBL] Ratcliff in Northumberland Hi list, On the 1851 census my great-grandfather is found in Leadgate, Durham, England. It says he was born in Ratcliff, Northumberland in 1835 along with a brother born there in 1832 and a sister in 1838. An older sister and brother were born in Newburn, Northumberland in 1829 and 1830 and his mother in Bells Close, Northumberland in 1801. My problem is I can't find Ratcliff, Northumberland on the map. Is it an old city that has become extinct or has it been renamed? Stephanie ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear listers, I just want to thank all of you on the list that sent me information on my question as to the location of Radcliffe, Northumberland. I did find it thanks to all of you. I am new to this list and to English research and am a little confused with all the terminology of coal mining and of parishes and hundreds and districts and subdistricts and markettowns etc. I'm sure I'll catch on to it all soon. I just want to say that I agree with Judy. The people on this list are very knowledgeable and so helpful and from so many of you! Thanks so much for all the help and information. Stephanie

I too am researching "Forster" in Co. Durham, as well as Williamson and Reay. Frances Forster married John Williamson in 1856 in South Shields, died aged only about 31 in 1867, already a widow. Her parents were William Forster from Tanfield and Mary (unknown) from Newcastle. Her two children Thomas Forster Williamson and John William Williamson I believe were on the training ship "Wellesley" at the 1871 census. Thomas eventually moved to Liverpool and worked for the White Star Line but I have lost track of John William. Does any lister know anything at all about the Wellesley records please because they may give some clue as to which of the many John Williamsons from South Shields or Scotland, married Frances, and fathered the two boys. Regards, Eileen