Hello List, It's even more challenging than Stan describes. Knowing the state or even the county may not be enough. Some states and counties have centralized their records but others have not, and the early records are in a book in the village clerk's basement. Many vital records departments don't see genealogy research as part of their jobs and either direct you to local history volunteers or charge very high fees for searches and copies. I've learned more about my 19th century UK ancestors than about my early 20th century Pennsylvania families (miners from Stanhope and Washington areas). I've found the IGI to be a useful research tool, just to pin down a general area. A big obstacle in the USA is the lack of the 1890 federal census, destroyed in a fire. Military records help bridge the gap because men had to register for WWI and WWII. Best wishes, Carol Bradford Syracuse, Onondaga, New York, USA Durham: CARTER, WATSON, COXON, PATTISON, DUNN, BOOTH, ANDERSON, FORSTER, JAMES, THOMPSON and counting. > There is no uniform birth certificate issued in the US as there is > in the > UK. Every state, and sometimes Counties, issues their own and > covering > different period of times. One must know in which State the birth > took place and then > general resources such as "The Handbook for Genealogists" will > guide you to > the locations of the records. > > > Regards Stan Mapstone

> I am researching Isabella Robson Bn. 1884 Newcastle on Tyne, or Consett Co. Durham (age has > come from her death certificate) her father was William Robson, Coal Miner. Hello Pauline, As you do not have the certificate for Isabella's first marriage, I was wondering what your source was for the name of her father? Do you perhaps have a certificate for a later marriage? Based on the information you have supplied, one possibility from the 1891 census is this family: RG12/4121 Folio 37 Co. Durham, Civil parish - Plawsworth Village - Nettlesworth Ecclesiastical Parish - Sacriston Back Row 2 rooms William Robson, Head, M, age 37 years, Coalminer, born Leadgate, Durham Elizabeth do, wife, age 35, born Seaham, Durham Jane Ann do, dau, S, 17, Domestic Servant, born Ushawmoor, Durham Margaret do, dau, S, 15, Mother's Help, born Walker Teams, Durham Mary E. do, daur, S, 13, Scholar, born Hebburn, Durham Isabella do, 7, scholar, born Ludworth, Durham James do, son, 5, Scholar, born Kimblesworth Durham Lily do, dau, 1, born Kimblesworth, Durham. In 1901, this family was still in the same village: 1901 Census, Co. Durham RG 13/4700 Folio 157 Civil Parish - Plawsworth Ecc Parish - Sacriston St Peter Village - Nettlesworth Broadmires 2 rooms William Robson, Head, M, 47, Coal Hewer, born Durham Leadgate Elizabeth do, wife, 48, born do Isabella do, dau, S, 17, born do James do, son, 15, born do Plawsworth Lily do, dau, 12, born do do Dora do, daur, 10, born do do I could not see Nettlesworth on my road map but according to GENUKI www.genuki.org.uk it is a hamlet in the parish of Sacriston, about a mile and a half north-west from Plawsworth. Robson is a very common surname in the area, and there are a number of possibilities for Isabella's birth registration, but these seem to be possibilties for Dora and Lily from FreeBMD http://freebmd.rootsweb.com : Births Mar 1892 (>99%) ROBSON Dora Chester le S. 10a 531 Births Dec 1889 (>99%) Robson Lily Chester le S 10a 480 Hope that this helps. Ingrid

In a message dated 13/01/2007 16:25:44 GMT Standard Time, Carolgriff@aol.com writes: Do you think Sarah used - and also signed- her maiden name or had she maybe been a McMullen who married a McMullen. __________________________________________________________________ She used her maiden name. I have two certificates where a widow has used her maiden name. Regards Stan Mapstone

Hi Ive just received a cert showing Sarah McMullen a 41 year old widows marriage. Her dad is named as Henry McMullen. This was in 1843 and she was Irish. I do have a scottish cert where a widow gave her maiden name and signed her maiden name with no mention of her married name. Do you think Sarah used - and also signed- her maiden name or had she maybe been a McMullen who married a McMullen. The first marriage will more than likely have been somewhere in Ireland so i cant go down that route. Thanks carol

I'm looking for the marriage of ISAIAH DENT in Newcastle circa 1796. Any other information about Isaiah would be most welcome. Glenys.

Hello List May I thank all of those listers who have responded to my query. It seems likely that Banns were called in St Jude's Knarsdale where Deborah BELL was resident and in the neighbouring parish of Alston where the native Knaresdalian Thomas COLTHARD was working in the lead mines. So I must go to originalsources on that assumption. Incidentally,their grand-daughter Nancy COLTHERD of Alston Moor married in Middleton in Teesdale which is in our areaof family history research. Thaks again Maurice

Kelly In answer to your second query about the father not being described as deceased, I have several marriage certificates where I know the fathers were dead but it was not mentioned on the certificates. Diane > From: kelly@vaxxine.com> To: DUR-NBL@rootsweb.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:36:16 -0500> Subject: [DUR-NBL] Marriage certificates> > I have 2 questions concerning an 1874 marriage certificate I just received and I hope someone may be able to help me. First, the groom is listed as a bachelor and I am almost certain that he was married in 1869 to someone else, had a child and then the wife died. Would it be unusual to be listed as a bachelor if he was a widower? Secondly, if the father of the bride were deceased, would it say "deceased" under father's profession, or would it list his occupation when he was living? I am almost positve her father died soon after she was born as he did not appear in any subsequent censuses. Would different parishes/ministers do things differently or were there strict guide lines? Any insight to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Kelly in Canada> ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ====> To Post a message to this list send it to,> DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ====> List Web Page> http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail. http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-4911fb2b2e6d

In a message dated 12/01/2007 19:11:18 GMT Standard Time, ampg@61stanleyrd.freeserve.co.uk writes: I have already been up one tree unfortunately it was the wrong one the only thing I know is she had siblings and that one of them married a William Sutherland, ___________________________________________ Have you found the family in the 1891 Census? Regards Stan Mapstone

In the 1881 Census 470 people in County Durham were born in the United States. Regards Stan Mapstone

Anything can be entered on a marriage certificate, within reason, as the details would not normally be checked, not even proof of age was required, as there are no penalties for incorrectly filling in a marriage register unless it is done with intent to deceive, so you will often find Deceased omitted, and I don't think that describing yourself as a bachelor instead of a widower would be considered serious deceit. However From the 1836 Act. XLI. And be it enacted, That every Person who shall wilfully make or cause to be made, for the Purpose of being inserted in any Register of Birth, Death, or Marriage, any false Statement touching any of the Particulars herein required to be known and registered, shall be subject to the same Pains and Penalties as if he were guilty of Perjury. Regards Stan Mapstone

There is no uniform birth certificate issued in the US as there is in the UK. Every state, and sometimes Counties, issues their own and covering different period of times. One must know in which State the birth took place and then general resources such as "The Handbook for Genealogists" will guide you to the locations of the records. Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 13/01/2007 00:18:10 GMT Standard Time, jeffrey.wheatley@btinternet.com writes: Am I correct in assuming that this means that although she was born in America, she was also a British Subject?? _______________________________________________________________ Yes, it means British Subject, there is also N.B.S., Naturalised British Subject. As from the 1861 census a distinction was made between B.S. and N.B.S. Apparently many settlers decided to return, it had never been their intention to stay for ever. As many as 1 in 4 of those who emigrated to America from Europe in the early twentieth century did not settle there permanently. In the 1901 Census there were 1,497 people in County Durham who had been born in the United States. Regards Stan Mapstone

Hi, I've got a relative called Minnie Odell Smith who according to the 1881 Census was born in "America BS" around 1870/71. Am I correct in assuming that this means that although she was born in America, she was also a British Subject?? Also, can anyone assist by telling me where I might get details of the birth?? Thanks, Jeff Wheatley

I have 2 questions concerning an 1874 marriage certificate I just received and I hope someone may be able to help me. First, the groom is listed as a bachelor and I am almost certain that he was married in 1869 to someone else, had a child and then the wife died. Would it be unusual to be listed as a bachelor if he was a widower? Secondly, if the father of the bride were deceased, would it say "deceased" under father's profession, or would it list his occupation when he was living? I am almost positve her father died soon after she was born as he did not appear in any subsequent censuses. Would different parishes/ministers do things differently or were there strict guide lines? Any insight to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Kelly in Canada

This may be of use to some here. Over the Christmas period, and into the new year I was not receiving anything from the mailing lists here. I use a yahoo.co.uk address so that when the spam starts to get to bad I can drop it and use another. I had it set to forward everything received to my real email address, but it seems that since Yahoo "improved" their email that does not work. As soon as I turned off the forwarding mails started to accumulate in my Yahoo mailbox. Now I use the POP3 collecting route. So if any other Yahoo UK users feel that they are being left out, try changing your method of collection. Cheers Steve -- Researching Cairns, Dodsworth, Douglas, Hetherington, Hume, Pringle, Taylor, Wilson, Wintrip in Northumberland UK Cockburn, Dobson, Forster, Headlam, Hogg, Mackay, Maggs, Pringle, Tate in County Durham UK Hetherington, Huntington in Cumbria UK (pre 1846) Forster in North Yorkshire UK Barnard, Binks, Dowsett, Duncombe, Fairhead, Kemp, Ovel, Rudkin, Sibley, Smith, Spurgeon, Wendon in Essex UK Bunt(Bunts; Bunce) in Devon UK Caddy, Gluyas in Cornwall UK Cottle, Frances, Maggs, Plummer, Weaver in Somerset UK Corfield, Lees, Taylor in Willenhall, Staffordshire UK

_____ From: ANTHONY MICHAEL GIBBONS [mailto:ampg@61stanleyrd.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 09 January 2007 19:30 To: 'DUR-NBL-Lrequest@rootsweb.com' Subject: Posting Interests Hi List, I am researching the following: Isabella Robson Bn. 1884 Newcastle on Tyne, or Consett Co. Durham (age has come from her death certificate) her father was William Robson, Coal Miner. I have already been up one tree unfortunately it was the wrong one the only thing I know is she had siblings and that one of them married a William Sutherland, Still trying to trace where, another married a James/Jim Foggett again still trying to find marriage and all I know is that they all lived on Tyneside, and that one of her siblings emigrated to Australia after 2nd WW. The only way I know about Tyneside is that she took me to visit her siblings in Consett and Annfield Plain when I was a little girl (Old Lady now). I know this is very little to go on but I live in hope. Thanks in advance Pauline. PS her first husband was Thomas Alfred Hitchcock again nothing known have searched for marriage and beginning to think it never happened. Her daughter Emily Amelia Hitchcock (My mother was born 1914 in Birmingham)

Hi All Do Muster Rolls still exist for Tynemouth dating from around 1815-1830? I have a John Stoker FORREST who claims to be born in North Shields around 1797-ish. I can not find: a) a baptism for him b) the baptism of his second son, Tom, in 1830 approx. C) the family in 1841. He seems to disappear between around 1827 to 1841; he marries in Christ Church, Tynemouth in Jan 1825, his first son is baptised there Aug 1826 and the family are in North Shields 1851 and thereafter. He is consistently a seaman/scullerman. After his death, in 1872, his widow declares herself "Muster Roll Annuitant" in the 1881 census, which must mean that she received some sort of pension. So, can I discover more about him from the Muster Roll and how did she get assessed to receive this pension? Many thanks John LOVE

It might be worth checking Banns for Chester le Street if you think that John lived there at the time of the marriage. They should give the bride's Parish, which is probably where they married. I'd also re-check that entry where Newton Aycliff was given as birthplace. It didn't exist in those days, only Aycliffe or the Parish of Great Aycliffe. Regards, Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: Stanmapstone@aol.com To: DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] John Rutter There is no marriage for a John Rutter and a Dorothy ??? in the County Durham Marriage Index 1813-1837.

Hello All I wonder if some kind soul can help me out. I have been trying to find the marriage between John Rutter and his wife Dorothy ??? for some time now ordering films through my local LDS centre and searching Boyd's marriage index for all the likely parishes in Durham but have had no success so far. I think that in all probability they would have been married around 1825 as the first child Eliza was born 1825-1826. John Rutter was born abt 1795 and spent nearly all his life farming in the Chester Le Street area. In the 1851 Census Dorothy is down as born at Byers Green and in the later census she is down as born at Newton Aycliff, both give her born abt 1787-1799. Unfortunately it is a little bit far to go to the Durham Records Office. Does anybody have any clues. Patrick Lewis Adelaide Australia -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/620 - Release Date: 8/01/2007

Hello list According to the transcripts kindly provided by George Bell the following marriage took place in Knaresdale,NBL: 25 Nov 1725 Thomas COULTHARD = Deborah BELL Two LDS website entries for Knaresdale marriages are: 25 Nov 1725 Thomas COULTHRED spouse Deborah BELL Batch M000252 and 25 Nov 1725 Tho. COULTHRED spouse Deborah BELL Batch M000251 These appear on the surface to be the same marriage. However, in another transcript of Geoge Bell for the neighbouring parish of Alston,CUL there is the following marriage: 25 Nov 1723 Thomas COLTHRED = Deborah BELL Although CUL is not in our area I need to decide which are my Thomas COLTHERD and Deborah BELL . Any advice on how I should now proceed would be gratefully accepted TIA Maurice TAYLOR