> I ordered a birth certificate and for the mother this is stated for her > name > > Isabella Perry > late Harrison > formerly Musgrove This means that Isabella was born Isabella Musgrove then married Mr Harrison and then married Mr Perry. It could be that Mr Harrison died or they were divorced. I have a birth certificate that states the mother was Mary Nicholson formerly Elliott. However, I know for sure that she married a Mr Wright before she married Mr Nicholson and she may also have married a Mr Jackson before that! So beware that sometimes some of a woman's married names can be missed off the certificate. Alison

many thanks for the information on adoption best wishes from Isabel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi If a couple died in 1820 and relatives brought up their children as their own would there have been a legal adoption. ? best wishes from Isabel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can someone answer this question I ordered a birth certificate and for the mother this is stated for her name Isabella Perry late Harrison formerly Musgrove The late in front of Harrison would that mean her husband died? I understand Musgrove is her maiden name Thanks Sherry

>How do you measure the area of a triangle????? To calculate it, >multiply half the base times the height. But would they have to measure >the height - at right angles of course? Given you have the lengths of the three sides, a, b and c, the area can be found from the square root of s(s-a)(s-b)(s-c), where s is half the perimeter. The accuracy would be as good as the measurements of the lengths of the sides. ------ Philip

Well now - Stan, you have me wondering. 1851 census has my ggg grandfather Samuel Johns(t)on farming 5 acres he rented in Ballyleckey (townland), Ballinderry (village/township), Antrim (county), (Northern) Ireland. I assumed this was five acres as I know it. Could this mean however it was more like 8 or 9 acres as I think? I have the ordnance survey maps of about 1900 and tithe? parish? maps of around 1850 from PRONI. I don't remember them giving feet and i9nches etc and if on chains etc you are saying the chains varied too! In fact in 2005 I went past the land - it seemed more like two acres! But it was hard to tell, this is currently in little paddocks, and who knows if he had more than one or not. Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stanmapstone@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2007 9:30 AM To: DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] Mensuration Copy Books In a message dated 23/01/2007 20:23:20 GMT Standard Time, neil@clueful.co.uk writes: Gunter's chain is a name I have never heard of. __________________________________________________________________ The Gunter's chain was used in the measuring of America. The twenty -two yard chain of the seventeenth century British genius Edmund Gunter has imprinted its dimensions on every parcel of land in the United States A statute acre is divided into 10 sq. chains, or 100,000 sq. links. Statutory values were enacted in England by acts of Edward I., Edward III, Henry VIII and George IV., and the Weights and Measures Act 1878 now defines it as containing 4840 sq. yds. In addition to this "statute " or " imperial acre," other " acres " are still, though rarely, used in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and certain English counties. The Scottish acre contains 6150-4 sq. yds.: the Irish acre is 7840 sq. yds.; in Wales, the land measures erw (4320 sq. yds.), slang (3240 sq. yds.) and paladr are called " acres "; the Leicestershire acre (23085 sq. yds.), Westmorland acre (6760 sq. yds.) and Cheshire acre (10,240 sq. yds.) are examples of local values Regards Stan Mapstone ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM

That is correct -- arms are personal awards from the College of Arms, whose FAQ says: Q. Do coats of arms belong to surnames? A. No. There is no such thing as a 'coat of arms for a surname'. Many people of the same surname will often be entitled to completely different coats of arms, and many of that surname will be entitled to no coat of arms. Coats of arms belong to individuals. For any person to have a right to a coat of arms they must either have had it granted to them or be descended in the legitimate male line from a person to whom arms were granted or confirmed in the past. http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

In a message dated 24/01/2007 16:15:07 GMT Standard Time, isabel.adams@ntlworld.com writes: If a couple died in 1820 and relatives brought up their children as their own would there have been a legal adoption. ? ____________________________________________________________ No, prior to 1927 there was no formal adoption process, and the term "adopted" generally included fostering and guardianship. In many instances a child was simply "adopted" into the extended family or taken in by neighbours/family friends and brought up as a member of their own family. Occasionally it was arranged through a solicitor, doctor or charitable organisation but adoption was viewed as an essentially private arrangement between the parties concerned. Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 24/01/2007 02:05:47 GMT Standard Time, dawnwebb@optusnet.com.au writes: Could this mean however it was more like 8 or 9 acres as I think? ___________________________________________________________ Hi Dawn, The Irish acre was a traditional unit of land area in Ireland, equal to 160 square Irish perches This is equivalent in English units to 7840 square yards, 70 560 square feet, or about 1.6198 English acre (0.6555 hectare). The discrepancy arose because the Irish perch, or rod, was standardised at 21 feet instead of the English figure of 16.5 feet. The same happened elsewhere because the historic perch could vary from 15½ feet to 30 feet. Local historic acres could therefore vary from 0.88 to 3.30 modern acres. Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 24/01/2007 13:25:57 GMT Standard Time, philip@konti.demon.co.uk writes: Given you have the lengths of the three sides, a, b and c, the area can be found from the square root of s(s-a)(s-b)(s-c), where s is half the perimeter. ______________________________________________________________________ This may be of interest "Elementary text book for young surveyors and levellers" By Henry James Castle 1856 See http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cpnuj Regards Stan Mapstone

Thanks Lynda, Adds to my knowledge as well as reinforcing some that I knew. Gunter's chain is a name I have never heard of. Must Google. Gunter's chain is 22 yds or 4 poles; as he says standard. The current sandard - at least pre-metric. Cheshire having had a 32 yd Chain and therefore an 8 yd or or 24 feet Pole. I wonder who had the 15 feet, 18 feet and 21 feet Poles :-) :-) :-) Regards Neil

Dear Stan, Many thanks for the information on the parish lists - it is very helpful, now to see if there is anything available to purchase for the parishes I'm interested in Judy Bleay Cornwall -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04

----- Original Message ----- From: <Carolgriff@aol.com> To: <PUTMAN914@aol.com>; <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:47 AM Subject: [genealogy] Re: [DUR-NBL] (no subject) > bear in mind lots of South Shields people thought nothing > of crossing the river to Tynemouth etc to get married- no idea why but they > did! > > carol As a family growing up near South Shields in the 1940s, one of the exciting trips that we sometimes undertook was take the Economic bus to S. Shields, and then the ferry across the Tyne and back. Always new sights and smells, great fun and almost like going to sea. I can imagine that there could have been something quite exotic about getting married across the water. Though I doubt whether the ferry Captain would have been licensed to perform marriages. :-) Cheers, Tim S.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Temperley" <jtemperl@bigpond.net.au> To: "dur-nbi-request" <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:03 AM Subject: [genealogy] [DUR-NBL] parents of children > My grand parents Joseph Temperley And Margaret Ann nee Smith married 1906 > had two children in England, one female who died in England, my father > Thomas born 1909 Co Durham. > They lived near Brandon and Joseph was a coal miner. > Help is required to find the females name, birth date and date of death to > complete this family tree. > I am spoilt in NSW most births give the parents names. > This is not the case in England ! > Thanking you in advance Ralph Ralph, I wonder if you have tried searching at FreeBMD http://freebmd.org.uk/ . That lists nine female TEMPERLEY births registered in Durham district between Apr-Jun 1906 (the District and Quarter in which your grandparents' marriage was registered) and 1915 (my own guess at a reasonable cut-off date). In date order of the quarters in which the births were registered, these were Jun 1907 - Doris (2 Doris births in the same quarter) Sep 1907 - Maud Mary L Dec 1907 - Elizabeth Thwaites Jun 1908 - Florence Ada Dec 1908 - Elizabeth - Florence Margaret Sep 1909 - Isabel (unlikely to have been a twin sister to your father - he was recorded in the same quarter, but on a different page) June 1911 - Annie I If there is no name in my list that rings a bell, then you may need to start purchasing some birth certificates (which do, of course, name the parents!) at £7 each (online) to find the parents names. But.... Only two of the children listed above died before 1925, so that may offer a more economical way to progress. The relevant death records are : Deaths Sep 1908 - Doris TEMPERLEY aged 1 - Durham 10a page 221 Deaths Dec 1913 - Annie I TEMPERLEY aged 2 - Durham 10a page 442 By purchasing those two death certificates, you could well be on your way to completing (?) your tree. Unless, of course, your anonymous aunt was born in another district within Co. Durham, died in Durham district after 1925, or elsewhere, or has not yet been added to FreeBMD's database, or whatever.... The only other place you should consider searching is the Durham Registrars - they have a searchable index of births, marriages and deaths, but it is far from complete. http://www.durham.gov.uk/gro/newgro.nsf/search If you look there, you will find reference to an Ann Hindmarch TEMPERLEY, born 1906 in Durham Western. (she is recorded in FreeBMD, born in Weardale in March 1906) but they have no mention of either Doris Temperley born in Jun 1907. Unfortunately, you cannot yet search the Durham database for the death records, since they have not yet been indexed. Perhaps I should end on a more encouraging note. If you have not previously bought Registration certificates from England and Wales, it is a fairly simple procedure via http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content . Under no circumstances should you be persuaded to buy through any of the commercial sites, who will simply overcharge and give you no better service. Good luck, Tim S.

Ralph, If you are researching the Temperley name, you may wish to check out http://www.timperley.org/. There is a link 'Genealogy <http://www.timperley.org/temperley/index.html> - Temperley Northumberland and Co. Durham Subfolder' as well as a link to other areas which contains Temperley in Australia. I believe I have an ancestor Hannah Temperley bapt 1791 Hunstanworth DUR. Good luck

Lynda/Stan In the early part of the 19th century the size of an acre differed across the country. What tended to be common I think was that an acre was 10 sq. chains. So the question then is how big was a chain? Many people will know cos' it used to be included in the tables on the back of our sum books at school that a chain - the length of a cricket pitch - is 22 yds. 22 X 22 is 484. A Sq Chain is therefore 484 sq yards and an acre which is 10 sq chains is 4840 sq yds - which might be remembered. So where is all this leading? In the early 19th century, a Cheshire Chain was not 22 yds but 32 yards. A square Cheshire chain was 1024 sq yds. A Cheshire Acre was 10 sq (CHESHIRE) chains - equal to 10,240 sq yds i.e twice and a bit as big as a standard acre :-) I just wondered if your grandfather indicated how big a Durham chain was. I know that Cheshire was not the only odd one out. So was Lancashire. Stan How do you measure the area of a triangle????? To calculate it, multiply half the base times the height. But would they have to measure the height - at right angles of course? How accurate would farmers be? How accurate would be those who calculated the areas of fields for the Apportionments be? I was interested in Lynda's copy books because it might provide the practical method at that time. I have been involved for a number of years as an amateur archaeologist in suveying and laying out sites ie practical mensuration. I'm sorry list if I've gone on a bit about a non family history matter Neil Beattie

In a message dated 23/01/2007 20:23:20 GMT Standard Time, neil@clueful.co.uk writes: Gunter's chain is a name I have never heard of. __________________________________________________________________ The Gunter's chain was used in the measuring of America. The twenty -two yard chain of the seventeenth century British genius Edmund Gunter has imprinted its dimensions on every parcel of land in the United States A statute acre is divided into 10 sq. chains, or 100,000 sq. links. Statutory values were enacted in England by acts of Edward I., Edward III, Henry VIII and George IV., and the Weights and Measures Act 1878 now defines it as containing 4840 sq. yds. In addition to this “statute " or " imperial acre," other " acres " are still, though rarely, used in Scotland, Ireland, Wales and certain English counties. The Scottish acre contains 6150-4 sq. yds.: the Irish acre is 7840 sq. yds.; in Wales, the land measures erw (4320 sq. yds.), slang (3240 sq. yds.) and paladr are called " acres "; the Leicestershire acre (23085 sq. yds.), Westmorland acre (6760 sq. yds.) and Cheshire acre (10,240 sq. yds.) are examples of local values Regards Stan Mapstone

In a message dated 23/01/2007 18:10:17 GMT Standard Time, neil@clueful.co.uk writes: I have been involved for a number of years as an amateur archaeologist in surveying and laying out sites ie practical mensuration. ____________________________________________________________ I was a qualified surveyor for 44 years, in both mining and civil engineering, setting out chemical plants etc.. Regards Stan Mapstone

Lynda, Do any of the books say how big an acre is in square yards? I assume your grandfather came from Northumberland. I would be interested in, for example, how he would derive the area of a field, say. But perhaps it would be too complex to fit into an email :-) If you think this is not really family history I should be grateful if you could contact me off list. Regards Neil Beattie Cheshire

I have several copy books completed by my gt grandfather William Allison in 1846, he was 14 years old. The subjects covered are mainly land surveys, planting woods and division of fields, but there are also calculations for plasterers and roofers. These books are wonderful examples of layout and handwriting. I wonder if anyone can give me information as to why, and who they might have been produced for. Many thanks, Lynda