Hi! David, I know of a family who were all Catholics but one sister had married a non-Catholic. When he realised he was dying, he said he didn't want to be all alone in the Anglican churchyard so became a Catholic on his deathbed and was buried in the Catholic Churchyard with the rest of the family and where he was joined by his wife years later. Perhaps this was the reason your relative changed his religion so late in life too? Regards, Eileen --- -- Original Message ----- From: "David Allan" <davidm.allan@ntlworld.com> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: [DUR-NBL] Thanks! > Thanks to everyone who replied to my query relating to my grandparents' > register office wedding that took place in 1919. Basically, as I hadn't > come > across any other such weddings in my family history, it sort of begged the > question as to why? > > I had a hunch already as to the possible reason and after reading the > replies to my posting, my hunch has been reinforced. I suspect strongly > that > my grandfather was Catholic with a Catholic mother. It looks as though his > father was not born into the Catholic faith but was sort of moving in that > direction, probably because of his wife's influence (I have only > discovered > recently that he was baptised in the Catholic church at Tow Law in County > Durham when he was 57, just three years before he died). I feel certain he > would have been baptised when he was a child, but maybe that was in an > Anglican church and he didn't feel that counted! >

In a message dated 18/03/2007 11:34:26 GMT Standard Time, eileen.sturt@tiscali.co.uk writes: Perhaps this was the reason your relative changed his religion so late in life too? ___________________________________________________________________ To be strictly correct he did not change his religion, which was Christian, he changed his denomination. The Roman Catholic Church, the Church of England and all the non-conformists are Christians Regards Stan Mapstone

Thanks to everyone who replied to my query relating to my grandparents' register office wedding that took place in 1919. Basically, as I hadn't come across any other such weddings in my family history, it sort of begged the question as to why? I had a hunch already as to the possible reason and after reading the replies to my posting, my hunch has been reinforced. I suspect strongly that my grandfather was Catholic with a Catholic mother. It looks as though his father was not born into the Catholic faith but was sort of moving in that direction, probably because of his wife's influence (I have only discovered recently that he was baptised in the Catholic church at Tow Law in County Durham when he was 57, just three years before he died). I feel certain he would have been baptised when he was a child, but maybe that was in an Anglican church and he didn't feel that counted! Kind regards... David Allan.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me how to get the Rootsweb-L address for Shropshire, or tell me what it is. I don't want Message Boards. Apologies for my ignorance. Arthur.

In a message dated 18/03/2007 08:58:35 GMT Standard Time, arthur.rutherford@tesco.net writes: Would someone be kind enough to tell me how to get the Rootsweb-L address for Shropshire, or tell me what it is. I don't want Message Boards. Apologies for my ignorance. ___________________________________________________________ Hi Arthur, All the Rootsweb lists for England are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ Regards Stan Mapstone

I have no knowledge of any Punshon's in my family tree but then I have been unable to get beyond William Guy who was born about 1800. Likewise I am not aware of any Katherine's in the Guy family I am researching. That certainly doesn't mean there were no Punshon's or Katherine's. I can't get far enough to find out. If anyone has had a good experience with a researcher, could you give me an email address. I'm getting desperate. Carol Trout, Murrieta, California

Yes, I thought so too - but just recently Here in Victoria Australia, my daughter a non Catholic married a Catholic in a Catholic church with a very nice service though not the Nuptial Mass, and My non-Catholic ex-husband married in a Catholic church in Europe to a Catholic woman twice previously married but both previous husbands deceased. I am learning things in the past were not as cut and dried as I had always thought, either! Dawn -----Original Message----- From: dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dur-nbl-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ellen Hughes Sent: Saturday, 17 March 2007 10:57 PM To: markandjanboyes@ntlworld.com; davidm.allan@ntlworld.com; DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... Marrying a non-catholic in a registery office would have been quite normal at this date, even today a special dispensation is sometimes required to marry a non-catholic in a catholic church. Certainly, divorcee's are not usually allowed to marry in a Catholic church but as she was a widow this aspect shouldn't have been a problem. Ellen >From: "markandjanboyes" <markandjanboyes@ntlworld.com> >To: "David Allan" <davidm.allan@ntlworld.com>, "Rootsweb - Durham & >Northumberland" <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... >Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:57:34 -0000 > >Hi David >I was doing research for my friend, and all her ancestors were Catholics >and got married in a Catholic church, all except for one man. He married a >widow in later life, (don't think she was a Catholic) and married in a >register office in the north east. From memory it was approx late 1800's >or very early 1900's. >We found that a bit odd too. > >Jan > > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Allan > To: Rootsweb - Durham & Northumberland > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:05 PM > Subject: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... > > > Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been >around > 1919? > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== >To Post a message to this list send it to, >DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com > >==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== >List Web Page >http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Match.com - Click Here To Find Singles In Your Area Today! http://msnuk.match.com/ ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 16/03/2007 12:12 PM

Hi guys I should strongly suspect that there is a mixed religion marriage involved here. Whilst I find it completely unbelievable, my parents were prevented from marrying for a good 10 years in the late 1930s and early 1940s. They eventually married in 1943. I am the only descendant of my mother's family who is non Catholic. I can only remember one occasion when the families were united - they did virtually everything separately. I still find it amazing - but check out your grandmothers religion you may well find that this is the reason Doug Kyle On 16 Mar 2007 at 18:05, David Allan wrote: From: "David Allan" <davidm.allan@ntlworld.com> To: "Rootsweb - Durham & Northumberland" <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> Date sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:05:30 -0000 Subject: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been around 1919? My grandfather George married at Bishop Auckland register office in August that year and he is the only person in my family history who seems to have opted for such a wedding at this time. Given that he was from a Catholic family (although I do not know much about the faith of my grandmother) he would have been aware that he was not getting married in the eyes of God and there would have surely been some who did not look too favourably on the register office marriage. At a time when every other marriage in my family history took place in church, I find this odd. There is no one alive who I can ask for clues to help explain the circumstances. I am just wondering whether anyone else has come across such a situation in the course of their family history research. Kind regards... David Allan. ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I gave up on ever getting anywhere on this a couple of years ago but have just decided to have one more shot at it. My g-g-g-grandfather was William Guy of Sadberge. He married Ann Robinson in the chapelry of Sadberge on February 19, 1822. They had a son Thomas, (my great grandfather) a daughter Jane and another son William. A few years ago I obtained a copy of the 1851 census showing a Jane Guy aged 95 and her daughter Elizabeth aged 65. I have never been able to connect these two with my William although I'm sure in a small village such as Sadberge, there must have been a connection. I also have never been able to find any record of Williams birth or death. Jane is said to have been born in London or Lowdon County & township M or Nalt. I can't make out the last word. Her daughter Elizabeth was born in Penrith Cumberland. I've checked the IGI for Penrith and found a dozen people who could be my William and Jane if as I suspect, she was his mother. There is a Jane Sowerby married to a Thomas Guy who had a son, William, in 1801 in Penrith. How can I connect all these people? I would be willing to hire someone who could get this information for me. Any suggestions? Carol Trout, Murrieta, California

Hi Trying to find any information on a ROBERT BRUCE born c 1760 he married a Margaret Whitley 31 Aug 1789 Jarrow, St. Paul Durham. If anyone can help i would be grateful Roberts children were all christened at St Andrews( anglican ) in Newcastle .I have all thier details from parish registers too. Roberts siblings ??I found on IGI BATCH M000481 I have found robert brother miles on batch number P000592. on IGI listed with others .The only one that fits be Roberts father is a JOHN BRUCE born 1737 Gateshead , His father is Listed as MAGNIS . Here is a copy of what the parish registers said on Robert Bruce - they dont make things clearer though.Ive been in touch with Archives but because i dont know where to go from here they said it will cost me £25 an hour.Im not a cheapskate as i pay for copies of all parish registers and certificates along the way . The info below from a transcription of the full parish registers.ROBERT BRUCE & MARGARET WHEATLEYS CHILDREN ( no miles?) Church ... St Andrews Parish Church ( C of E/Anglican, NOT the Roman Catholic St Andrews less than half a mile away) Baptisms... John, born 7 Sep 1790, bapt 1 May 1791, son of Robert Bruce by his wife Margaret Wheatly Isabella, born 16 Dec 1793, bapt 23 June 1793, dtr of Robert Bruce, cordwainer, by his wife Margaret Wheatley. William, born 23 Dec 1795 (tomorrow), bapt 27 March 1796, son of Robert Bruce, by his wife Margaret Wheatly. Mary, born 13 Nov 1798, bapt 24 March 1799, second dtr to Robert Bruce, cordwainer, native of the parish of TANFIELD, by his wife Margaret formerly Wheatly, native of parish of Prudhoe, dtr of William Wheatly. George, born 12 Nov year unclear, 1800 or 1801, bapt 1 Aug 1802, third son of Robert Bruce, Cordwainer, native of JARROW , by his wife Margaret formerly Wheatly, native of Houghton ( Houghton-le-Spring) If anyone can offer any help on locating Robert and when and where he was born very much apprecisted . sue

Has anyone ever come across a lady called Katharine GUY, apparently from a landowning family in Boldon, who would have been born in about 1715?

>From new data that I have obtained about the following group of relatives, I can now understand more clearly what my aunt meant when she said that they "went north" COPELAND Joseph b 1845 WIG, SCT; Resided 11 James Street, Blaydon (residence of daughter Elizabeth BROADBENT) before he died; d 1916 Gateshead Workhouse Infirmary, Durham COPELAND Elizabeth (nee MCCLYMONT) b c1852 SCT; d 66 Edward Street, Blaydon upon Tyne (residence of her daughter Martha LOWE) BROADBENT Elizabeth b 1885 Hunderthwaite DUR (d/o Joseph & Elizabeth COPELAND); second marriage to William ; BROADBENT William second marriage to Elizabeth BROADBENT chn: both had chn from first marriages and their second Resided 1916 11 James Street, Blaydon upon Tyne LOWE Martha (nickname Pat) b 1877 AYR, SCT d/o Joseph and Elizabeth COPELAND; d 1961 Newcastle upon Tyne James Carrington b 1877 Bugsworth, DBY; d 1963 Newcastle upon Tyne LOWE Leonard b 1897 Bugsworth DBY; LOWE Harry/Henry b 1900 Bugsworth DBY; LOWE Lizzie. (d/o Elizabeth BROADBENT, fostered/adopted by Martha and James Carrington) Resided 1909 66 Edward Street, Blaydon upon Tyne HULL Tony HULL Sally b c1906 d/o Elizabeth BROADBENT's first(?) marriage; d 1994 Durham or DUR. Fostered by my PAYNE Grandparents in Liverpool; Resided 1985 9 Wilson Lane, Low Fell, Tyne and Wear HULL James Alan b 1945 s/o Tony and stepson of Sally; d 1995; Member of "Lindisfarne" COPELAND Joseph b c1884 s/o Joseph and Elizabeth COPELAND; d 1953 Worth Valley Registration District, YKS COPELAND Annie b 1889 Worsthorne, LAN; d 1959 Worth Valley Registration District, YKS Joseph and Annie were married at Tyneside and lived in Blaydon (in a mining village called Stella) COPELAND James b 1907 in a mining village called Stella Does anyone have these people in their trees or could they help me to learn more about their descendants? Thanks Jim Jim Payne NEW ZEALAND shampayne3@gmail.com Our web site is located at the following URL: http://www.shampayne.org.nz

Sorry I don't have a Katherine, but I am also interested in the GUY family, but have done little research on the family to date.. I have two instances of GUY family members marrying PUNSHON family members.I don't even know if these two are connected. The name GUY is found in the early records from Houghton le Spring. Jane GUY and George PUNSHON of Chester le Street were married at St Giles Church in Durham City on 22 Feb 1705/6 I suspect she is the daughter of John GUY - baptised at Houghton le Spring 27 Mar 1683 In the records for Houghton le Spring there are families of Thomas, Robert, John and Henry in the late 1600s. also Henry GUY and Jane PUNSHON married in Newcastle, St John on 17 Nov 1722 This is possibly Henry, son of Henry baptised at HLS 29 Apr 1688 Jane belonged to the "rich" branch of the PUNSHON family who came from Killingworth. Note Houghton le Spring baptism records only begin in 1581 and there are several GUY families in the first twenty years of records - children of Henry, Robert, George and William The marriage records are a little earlier , but the first marriage I found there is William GUY to Dorothy SPENCE in 1589 Has any one else done research into this family? Heather CliffordAlls@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone ever come across a lady called Katharine GUY, apparently from a > landowning family in Boldon, who would have been born in about 1715? >

Marrying a non-catholic in a registery office would have been quite normal at this date, even today a special dispensation is sometimes required to marry a non-catholic in a catholic church. Certainly, divorcee's are not usually allowed to marry in a Catholic church but as she was a widow this aspect shouldn't have been a problem. Ellen >From: "markandjanboyes" <markandjanboyes@ntlworld.com> >To: "David Allan" <davidm.allan@ntlworld.com>, "Rootsweb - Durham & >Northumberland" <DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... >Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:57:34 -0000 > >Hi David >I was doing research for my friend, and all her ancestors were Catholics >and got married in a Catholic church, all except for one man. He married a >widow in later life, (don't think she was a Catholic) and married in a >register office in the north east. From memory it was approx late 1800's >or very early 1900's. >We found that a bit odd too. > >Jan > > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Allan > To: Rootsweb - Durham & Northumberland > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:05 PM > Subject: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... > > > Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been >around > 1919? > ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== >To Post a message to this list send it to, >DUR-NBL-L@rootsweb.com > >==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== >List Web Page >http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >DUR-NBL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Match.com - Click Here To Find Singles In Your Area Today! http://msnuk.match.com/

I have a couple who married in the registry office at Stockton on Tees in 1868, neither was baptised as a Roman Catholic. They were both well over 21 years of age. I think that at that time Civil Marriages were a new thing and maybe some people who didn't bother with going to church and all it entails thougt it hypocritical to marry in a church. Maybe the bride's parents objected to her marrying a catholic or his parents objected to him not marrying a good catholic girl, who knows? In the case of Catholics marrying in a registry office it might be that the priest refused to marry the couple if one was not of the faith, priests seem to have had a lot of sway over people I think back then. Regards Jenny DeAngelis. Spain. > Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been > around > 1919? > My grandfather George married at Bishop Auckland register office in August > that year and he is the only person in my family history who seems to have > opted for such a wedding at this time. Given that he was from a Catholic > family (although I do not know much about the faith of my grandmother) he > would have been aware that he was not getting married in the eyes of God > and > there would have surely been some who did not look too favourably on the > register office marriage.

Ages at Census are very often incorrect so you can't be sure of exactly when a person had been born. The information on the census is only as good as the person supplying the information on who slept in his house at midnight on census night. If he couldn't remember the birth years or ages of everyone in the house on that night then you get wrong ages and possibly wrong birth places too. If Maria was 14 in the 1861 then she would only be about 4 in the 1851. I think she is a different person to Mary who probably had died by the 1861 and then another daughter called Mary was born 8 years or so before the 1871. You need to check the PRs perhaps for burials for the places where the family lived from census to census to see if you can find a burial, and perhaps her baptism too, for the daughter Mary and also check for the baptism of Maria. With such a common name of Brown it would be hard to find the right Mary Brown in the GRO index as you will know already. Perhaps William the head of the household was not the person filling out the schedule for the 1861 and 1851 censuses, maybe it was his wife filling out the schedule or giving the information to the enumerator who wrote it down. Mary, the wife, might have given her husband's age worked out from her own, maybe she wasn't aware of exactly how old her husband was why would she be concerned about his age. People didn't seem to be so preoccupied about ages and such details back then. William was probably at work down the coal mine when the enumerator called with his questions and schedule. In the 1871 it could be that William himself was around to give his own information. Regards Jenny DeAngelis. Spain. Hi, I wonder if anybody can help me solve a mystery. I detail below matrix of the 1851 to 1871 census returns for my past family:- Newfield 1851 Census - Byers Green - Seldom Seen William Brown Head 29 Coalminer Bedfordshire Mary Brown (mn ?) Wife 28 Durham Mary Brown Daughter 11 Durham Helmington Row 1861 Census - Bowden Close William Brown Head 38 Coalminer Elstow Bedfordshire Mary Brown (mn ?) Wife 38 Stanhope Durham Maria Brown Daughter 14 Wolsingham Durham Tudhoe 1871 Census - Mount Pleasant, 37 Pit Row William Brown Head 55 Coalminer Elstow Bedfordshire Mary Brown (mn ?) Wife 49 Stanhope Durham Mary Brown Daughter 8 Scholar Fylands Bridge Durham My queries are:- 1) Is Mary (1851) and Maria (1861) one of the same person and has her age been recorded incorrectly. Although it is quite clear on the 1851 census return as 11. 2) If they are different people, where was Maria in 1851 3) The marriage of William and Mary has got me stumped - the 1851 & 1861 census make William's birth year c.1822 whilst 1871 gives him a birth year c.1816. There is a marriage of a William Brown recorded in the second quarter of 1840 in Auckland. Am awaiting receipt of the Marriage Certificate.

Hi all, Darlington Historical Society is recording West Cemetery and the results can be viewed on: www.communigate.co.uk/ne/darlingtonhistoricalsociety Great details . .! Cheers Linda .

Hi David I was doing research for my friend, and all her ancestors were Catholics and got married in a Catholic church, all except for one man. He married a widow in later life, (don't think she was a Catholic) and married in a register office in the north east. From memory it was approx late 1800's or very early 1900's. We found that a bit odd too. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: David Allan To: Rootsweb - Durham & Northumberland Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: [DUR-NBL] A question about register office weddings... Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been around 1919?

Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been around 1919? My grandfather George married at Bishop Auckland register office in August that year and he is the only person in my family history who seems to have opted for such a wedding at this time. Given that he was from a Catholic family (although I do not know much about the faith of my grandmother) he would have been aware that he was not getting married in the eyes of God and there would have surely been some who did not look too favourably on the register office marriage. At a time when every other marriage in my family history took place in church, I find this odd. There is no one alive who I can ask for clues to help explain the circumstances. I am just wondering whether anyone else has come across such a situation in the course of their family history research. Kind regards... David Allan.

In a message dated 16/03/2007 18:06:41 GMT Standard Time, davidm.allan@ntlworld.com writes: Does anyone know how common register office weddings would have been around 1919? ________________________________________________________ In 1919 there were 85,330 Civil Marriages out of a total of 369,411, or 23% (1 in 4). Regards Stan Mapstone