A great (free) site for NE shipbuilding families exists at _http://members.cox.net/ghgraham/tpeople.html_ (http://members.cox.net/ghgraham/tpeople.html) . Many of these families interconnect. I could not find any Goodchilds there but if anyone finds any connections I am sure the site owner (George Graham) would be more than interested to know these and make appropriate additions to this magnificent and ever-growing site. His email is [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) and his interest is real and infectious. He is very approachable and welcomes constructive contact and evidence, especially with photographic support. Clifford Allison.

Grant: Wondered if you knew of the Goodchild family? Shipbuilders, quarriers and bankers in late 1700s? This is part of my family. Marilyn

> >Back in Milnthorp they had a lodging house. When he married Henry said he >was a clerk. > >G Gran could not read or write but she always said the name was BERNHARDT. >Sometimes they come up as BERNHARD. > >Dawn (Melbourne Australia) > Hi Dawn, There is a Henry BERNHARDT 37 , plumber's clerk, living in Ramsgate, Kent with a "Maggie" from Durham and they have a son Frederick 9mths born Durham. RG13/826 fol 90 p 29. In 1911 RG14 pn29457 Margaret and 3 sons are in Langthwaite Reeth, Yks - minus Henry. There is a visitor Hilda Victoria CHARLTON, 13 born Stockton who is probably a relation. Margaret says she has been married for 12 years. -- Helen Oram

I think that if you want to try to solve the problem then you need to buy at least one of those birth certificate copies and see what that says. Unless you have already got copies. Why do you feel surprised that the Poor Law officers should allow her to use the name Waddle? what is surprising about that if Waddle was her surname at the time she had those children, married, widowed or single woman that was her surname?? Perhaps the children were not born in the workhouse but after the birth of the last child the mother might have gone into the house because she had no money coming in to feed her children. Maybe only the last child was born in the workhouse. You would only know the situation by buying the certificate copies and seeing what they say. You could also look at the Christ Church Tynemouth PRs to see if the children were baptised there and see what that record says about the children and their mother. If you can't get to the Northumberland then you could try to find the address of your nearest LDS centre and order a copy of the appropriate film of the PRs for a small fee. I found in the 1851 census in the Tynemouth workhouse Robert Waddle age 10, Mary C. Waddle aged 2 & Matthew Waddle aged 3 all shown as the children of Jane Waddle widow, all born Tynemouth Northumberland. Their mother is listed with them and is shown aged 33, b. Houghton Le Spring and as the Widow or Robert Waddle Shipwright, the ref. for this entry is HO107 piece 2410 folio 495 page 8 regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> Could someone advise me about the following I have two children born in the > Tynemouth union workhouse, Matthew in the fourth quarter of 1848, and Mary > Catherine in the fourth quarter of 1849 some1.5 years and 3 years after > the > death of their Mothers husband. > Although I have not been able to check any of these in the Christ Church > parish register for that period the Civil registration has them both > listed > with the surname of WADDLE. I was surprised that the Poor House Officers > allowed this. >>

Dear Listers First of all I would like to thank all who replied to my query re death cert of James THOMAS. I greatly appreciate your goodwill. He was born Wales c 1831 - on marriage certificate to first wife Louisa BEALE in 1868 his age was stated as 37yrs. Using that as a guide I was looking for a James whose age would have been in his 60s. He married again (after the death of Louisa in 1874) to a Penelope GRIFFITHS who is with him in the 1881 census (his occupation: engine driver) and again in 1891 census (occupation: Blast furnace labourer). I have been unable to find her marriage to Thomas. Thank you all again Mary Australia

Hi Grant Quite so, there are many smaller parts of the various census missing for similar reasons I have heard it said that when the original census pages were available to view some unscrupulous researchers would rip the page out and take it with them, how true that is I don't know but would explain further missing pages when they came to scan them For major sections missing, check the Catalogue on the National Archives, enter Missing in the first box and the census year ref in the bottom box, ie RG9 for 1861 it will give a list of those known to be missing Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Nivard, > > Last year I discovered that some parts of RG9/3779 the 1861 census film > for > Sunderland were missing, not only from the commercially available CD > suppliers' products, but also from the Nation Archive's own films and > street > index. This covered the area of Arras Lane. > So I made contact with the appropriate chap at the National Archives in > Kew, close to where I live in West London. I explained that folio 74 > indicated > the area covered, but that the filming stopped at folio 101 page 50 - > Queen Street, and therefore quite a few additional pages are missing.

Hi Heather Nothing obvious springs out, was there an address on the marriage cert or birth in 1862? Have you found Margaret before 1861? Have you found Adams parents in 1861? Have you checked Dean Terrace in 1861? Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > Good idea Nivard - I would appreciate any help with the following > GRAHAM/SPOORS family. > > They are "missing" from the 1861 CENSUS, and would love it if someone > could find them. They should be in Scotswood, Benwell or perhaps Ovington > or somewhere in between. > > They are the Adam GRAHAM and Margaret SPOORS. > They were married on 23 Nov 1861, and their son Robert was born 22 Sep > 1862 In 1841 and in 1851 Adam is with his parents in Ovington, NBL

In a message dated 27/04/2009 11:38:06 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I am interested Janis you use the term "poor house" rather than workhouse which is the more common one. ____________________________________________________________________________ _______ The words poorhouse and workhouse were often used fairly interchangeably. After 1834, the institutions established by Poor Law Unions, administered by Guardians of the Poor, in which paupers were lodged and the able-bodied set to work, were always known as workhouses. The term poorhouse was often used in England prior to 1834 for parish establishments housing paupers where there was no resident master or matron, and where there little or no work was required of the inmates. Pauper establishments in Scotland were also invariably known as poorhouses (or poor's houses), perhaps reflecting that fact that they did not cater for the able-bodied and therefore imposed no requirement for deterrent work. See http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Apparently the official name became Poor-law Institution after 1912. Stan Mapstone

"Record Search is still under development. This release is considered a PILOT. This means that at times Record Search will not be available while we add additional records and improve some features. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We look forward to receiving your feedback" Stan Mapstone

"There are some damaged pages in the census enumerators' books. Some are torn, some have parts of the pages missing, some are damaged by water and staining, and some are missing completely. The worst census pages that I have ever seen were like dark brown paper bags with no handwriting on them. They had been damaged by water. The most common place for pages to be damaged (torn or stained) is at the end of a census piece book. In fact, most are! " http://www.british-genealogy.com/resources/census/faded.html Stan Mapstone

Hi all, Just another possible item to check. I have an Andrew GEORGE (not in DUR-NBL) who had been transcribed as George ANDREW. If the first name and surname are easily mixed up, as James THOMAS might be, try looking at the other version. Carol B. On Apr 26, 2009, at 9:13 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > I checked Hartlepool North Cemetery MIs but there is no James Thomas > burial > recorded. There is a reference in November 1901 to Mary Ann Thomas > wife of

Could someone advise me about the following I have two children born in the Tynemouth union workhouse, Matthew in the fourth quarter of 1848, and Mary Catherine in the fourth quarter of 1849 some1.5 years and 3 years after the death of their Mothers husband. Although I have not been able to check any of these in the Christ Church parish register for that period the Civil registration has them both listed with the surname of WADDLE. I was surprised that the Poor House Officers allowed this.

Hi Nivard, Last year I discovered that some parts of RG9/3779 the 1861 census film for Sunderland were missing, not only from the commercially available CD suppliers' products, but also from the Nation Archive's own films and street index. This covered the area of Arras Lane. So I made contact with the appropriate chap at the National Archives in Kew, close to where I live in West London. I explained that folio 74 indicated the area covered, but that the filming stopped at folio 101 page 50 - Queen Street, and therefore quite a few additional pages are missing. I received the following reply on 6 June 2008: ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Dear Mr White Thank you for your recent email concerning the 1861 census returns for Sunderland (RG 9/3779). Unfortunately, pages 1-13 of enumeration district 3 (book 2) are missing from the original document. The 1861 returns were originally held in the custody of the General Register Office at Cornwall House. Some of the returns were lost or damaged before transfer to the National Archives in April 1962 and therefore lost pages were never filmed. I am sorry for the disappointing reply. ____________________________________________________________________________ __________ Folio 74 states that Queen Street should be followed by Arras Lane, the north side of Coronation Street from back Grey Street to Baines Lane and the south side of the High Street from Grey street to Baines Lane. This explains why Baines Lane, Queen Street and New Grey Street are in the street index produced by the National Archive as they are not completely missing, but Arras Lane is completely missing. I hope this explains: I am sure there will be other areas where the enumeration books, or pages from the books are missing. Best wishes, Grant White Born Sunderland, now living London, England Always on the lookout for the major shipbuilding families of Wearside.

I wondered if someone could advise why in the information available at this site regarding the Northumberland listings, there appears to be no entries for Holy Trinity Church Tynemouth. Secondly Christ Church North Shields only has entries up to the end of 1847

What was the surname the mother was using at the time? The one she had when she married and the same when she became widowed? And what do the officer's at the poor house have to do with what she named the children? Janis

Good idea Nivard - I would appreciate any help with the following GRAHAM/SPOORS family. They are "missing" from the 1861 CENSUS, and would love it if someone could find them. They should be in Scotswood, Benwell or perhaps Ovington or somewhere in between. They are the Adam GRAHAM and Margaret SPOORS. They were married on 23 Nov 1861, and their son Robert was born 22 Sep 1862 In 1841 and in 1851 Adam is with his parents in Ovington, NBL 1841 CENSUS HO107 841 12 folio 7 page 10 Ovington NBL Robert Grahm 30 b. Northumberland, Ag Lab Christian Grahm 30 b. Northumberland, Elizabeth Grahm 9 b. Northumberland, Adam Grahm 6 b. Northumberland, 1851 CENSUS sub - district Bywell HO107/2414 folio77 page 15 Ovington Robert GRAHAM Head Mar M 45 Ag Lab NBL, Heddon Christan GRAHAM Wife Mar F 51 NBL, Shields? Adam GRAHAM Son U M 16 Ag Lab NBL, Bellingham In 1871 and 1881 they are living at Dean Terrace, Benwell. RG 10 5083 61 33 178 36' RG11 Piece 5056 Folio 68 Page 4 MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE Registration District Newcastle upon Tyne Marriage solemnized at the Parish of St John in the County of Newcastle upon Tyne 23 November 1861 Adam GRAHAM of full age, bachelor, blacksmith, of this parishh father: Robert GRAHAM, labourer Margaret SPOOR of full age, spinster of this parish father: William SPOOR, waterman both signed Witnesses: John Wheelear and Robert Smith BIRTH CERTIFICATE 22 September 1862 Scotswood, East Denton Registration District Castle Ward Birth in the sub-district of Stamfordham in the County of NBL Robert GRAHAM Father: Adam GRAHAM Blacksmith Mother: Margaret GRAHAM, formerly SPOORS informant Margaret Graham, mother Scots Wood East Denton As I said - if anyone can spot them in 1861, I would be very happy thanks Heather Nivard Ovington wrote: > > But just because you can't find it, does not mean its not there :-) > > Why not post the details you know and let others have a look for you > > >

Hello Listers I have been searching for James THOMAS' death, my GGgrandfather 1891-1901. He was on the 1891 census and in 1901 his wife is listed as a widow. I have searched the indexes with no luck and also checked with Tees Indexes. He was living at Seaton Carew Hartlepool in 1891 and his widow is still at the same address in 1901 census. I would be grateful for anyone's suggestions as to where to look next. Kind Regards Mary Australia

Hi Mary. What was James Thomas' occupation? was he a mariner and if so could he have died at Sea? If you think he might have died at sea then there is a separate GRO index for BMDs at Sea. These indexes are on the findmypast site, which is pay per view or subscription, you need to look there for Overseas BMDs and then look for BMDs at Sea. If he did die at sea then the master of the ship he died on or was lost from should have reported the death once the ship reached a port where there was either a British Consul or a British Registrar of Shipping, the death should have been reported to either of these people. Remember too that the Tees Valley Indexes site is still an ongoing project so if the death took place at home in Seaton Carew then it may not yet have been included in that index. Have you contacted the Hartlepool Registrars office to ask if they can help with your problem. They may be able to help you, contact them via the Tees Valley Indexes contact details where I believe you will find an e.mail address for them. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. >>I have searched the indexes with no luck and also checked with Tees >>Indexes. He was living at Seaton Carew Hartlepool in 1891 and his widow is still at the same address in 1901 census. I would be grateful for anyone's suggestions as to where to look next.<<

Hi Mary, Following on from Lancelot's message, Hartlepool, Seaton Carew, came within the Stockton Registration District at this time so it could well be your James Thomas. Regards, Gillian

Mary There is a death registered in Stockton on Tees for James Thomas aged 45 years in the Oct - Dec Qtr 1896. Does the age fit? You didn't say when he was born, or where. Lancelot