In a message dated 25/05/2009 17:57:22 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I understand getting married in the Register Office, but "by Certificate"? ______________________________________________________________________ Marriages in England and Wales could be by: 1) Banns 2) Surrogate’s or Common Licence 3) Special Licence 4) Superintendent Registrar’s Certificate 5) Superintendent Registrar’s Licence Under (1) (2) and (3) marriages may be solemnized by a Clergyman of the Established Church of England in a licensed Church or Chapel of the Church of England, or, if by Special Licence, in any place and at any time. Under (4) they may, as in cases (1) and (2), be solemnized by a Clergyman of the Established Church of England subject to his being willing to accept the Certificate in lieu of Banns; and under (4) and (5) by or before a Registrar of Marriages in a building of Roman Catholic or other denomination duly registered by the Registrar-General; before a Registrar of Marriages and a Superintendent Registrar in the District Register Office; or after the 1898 Act .(Marriage; Nonconformist Places of Worship), before a person duly authorised under the Act. Under this Act Roman Catholics and Nonconformists were not required to have a civil Registrar present. Stan Mapstone

Thank you Nivard and Stan. Their new (for me) web page confused me (which is not hard to do!!) Thank you again Marg Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]> To: "Marg Smith" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] Family Search search labs > Hi Marg > > No still there, just checked the page in question and no problem > > You are clicking the map on Europe ? > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > >> Hullo List >> >> Have been researching my Irish, Dutch and American interests, and am just >> starting to review my English research again, so to my query.... >> >> I have, for example, the following Bishop's Transcripts, Gateshead >> Parish, 1769-1812, >> SOURCE: England, Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts c.1700-1900 found >> at <http://search.labs.familysearch.org> Durham >Gateshead > 1769-1812 >> Image 225 of 913: >> Baptism: Year: 1798, of Ann Richardson, Born October 29, baptised >> December 2nd; First Daughter of >> Edward Richardson, Pitman, Native of Newburn, by his wife, Esther >> Greener, Native of this Parish. >> >> Are the original images of Bishop's Transcripts no longer available on >> the above website?? I remember this was a trial program, so has it >> disappeared?? >> >> Regards >> Marg Smith >> Mardi, NSW >> Australia > > >

Hullo List Have been researching my Irish, Dutch and American interests, and am just starting to review my English research again, so to my query.... I have, for example, the following Bishop's Transcripts, Gateshead Parish, 1769-1812, SOURCE: England, Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts c.1700-1900 found at <http://search.labs.familysearch.org> Durham >Gateshead > 1769-1812 Image 225 of 913: Baptism: Year: 1798, of Ann Richardson, Born October 29, baptised December 2nd; First Daughter of Edward Richardson, Pitman, Native of Newburn, by his wife, Esther Greener, Native of this Parish. Are the original images of Bishop's Transcripts no longer available on the above website?? I remember this was a trial program, so has it disappeared?? Regards Marg Smith Mardi, NSW Australia

Hi Marg No still there, just checked the page in question and no problem You are clicking the map on Europe ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hullo List > > Have been researching my Irish, Dutch and American interests, and am just > starting to review my English research again, so to my query.... > > I have, for example, the following Bishop's Transcripts, Gateshead Parish, > 1769-1812, > SOURCE: England, Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts c.1700-1900 found > at <http://search.labs.familysearch.org> Durham >Gateshead > 1769-1812 > Image 225 of 913: > Baptism: Year: 1798, of Ann Richardson, Born October 29, baptised December > 2nd; First Daughter of > Edward Richardson, Pitman, Native of Newburn, by his wife, Esther Greener, > Native of this Parish. > > Are the original images of Bishop's Transcripts no longer available on the > above website?? I remember this was a trial program, so has it > disappeared?? > > Regards > Marg Smith > Mardi, NSW > Australia

----- Original Message ----- From: "KEMSLEY, Robert N. G." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Possible Christening of twin girls b/d 1905 Gateshead > Further to my previous query: > > I note on the information sent me by a fellow lister, re burials > "Gateshead East Cemetery"; "Consecrated Ground" & "Unconsecrated Ground"? > > I also noted 2 "Catholic' buried in Unconsecrated Ground? > > What I am wondering is; to be buried in Consecrated Ground; need the > twins girls be Baptised/Christened? > > Kindest Regards; > Robert KEMSLEY > Australia >

Marj, You never know when some relative pops up. Perhaps I have talked with you before I don't know. My gr X5 grandparents were Esther Greener and Edward Richardson. Ann the oldest daughter was my Gr X4 grandmother. Please contact me. Janis

In a message dated 24/05/2009 13:34:27 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Are the original images of Bishop's Transcripts no longer available on the above website?? I remember this was a trial program, so has it disappeared?? ______________________________________________________________________ They are still available at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#r=1;p=allCollections Stan Mapstone

Hi Stan - I thought that the Mormon church do that all the time ! Cheers - Brian LEGG in Coventry, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] Possible Christening of twin girls b/d 1905 Gateshead > > There is absolutely no way in which a dead child, or anyone else for that > matter, can be baptised. > > Stan Mapstone >

In a message dated 23/05/2009 12:12:36 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Stan - I thought that the Mormon church do that all the time ! ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ I meant for main Christian Churches. The Mormons actually practise Baptism FOR the Dead where a living person acting as a proxy is baptized by immersion in typical Latter-day Saint fashion. Stan Mapstone

I agree with Stan, and so did church ministers if these burial records are anything to go on. Both from the records of South Shields St Stephen. Frederick Robson (as per certificate of register) Aged 2 weeks Heron Street Buried 09th March 1857 No ceremony performed the child not having been baptised A child intended to be called Margaret Elliott Aged 1 day Gowland Street Buried 30th October 1857 Not baptised therefore no ceremony For those listers missing ancestors in the South Shields area there were 48 burial records for UNKNOWN between 1848 & 1869. Almost all were "drowned in the Tyne" 44 for a man unknown 1 for a woman unknown 1 for a foundling male child aged about 3 weeks I for a male child 1 for a female child Margaret Hall Wallsend. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 22 May 2009 14:11 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DUR-NBL] Possible Christening of twin girls b/d 1905 Gateshead In a message dated 22/05/2009 13:54:27 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I would think they were, more than likely, even if it were post mortem. ____________________________________________________________________________ There is absolutely no way in which a dead child, or anyone else for that matter, can be baptised. Stan Mapstone

Robert, Rev Parish, the minister at the burial of Dorothy Walton was from St Cuthbert's Church. Rev Spencer, the minister at the burial of Margaret Walton was from Holy Trinity parish church. I checked the baptism records for both churches yesterday but the twins were not recorded in either. The children are buried in consecrated ground which to me indicated they were baptised however it is strange that ministers from different parishes took the burial services. Margaret Hall Wallsend. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KEMSLEY, Robert N. G. Sent: 22 May 2009 00:06 To: [email protected] Subject: [DUR-NBL] Possible Christening of twin girls b/d 1905 Gateshead Through detective work and much assistance from fellow list members, for which; I am ever so very grateful; I now know that Dorothy Ann WALTON & Margaret WALTON born/died December Quarter 1905, Gateshead are the twin girls said to have been born to my WALTON Grandparents. These are the twin girls said by family to have been "Stillborn", which was not the case. Dorothy Ann lived 2 days; Margaret 5. Kindly having been supplied with their burial details yesterday morning by a fellow list member; I am now wondering: were they Christened? Is it likely that they were "Christened"? Kindest Regards; Robert KEMSLEY Australia

In a message dated 22/05/2009 13:54:27 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I would think they were, more than likely, even if it were post mortem. ____________________________________________________________________________ There is absolutely no way in which a dead child, or anyone else for that matter, can be baptised. Stan Mapstone

Through detective work and much assistance from fellow list members, for which; I am ever so very grateful; I now know that Dorothy Ann WALTON & Margaret WALTON born/died December Quarter 1905, Gateshead are the twin girls said to have been born to my WALTON Grandparents. These are the twin girls said by family to have been "Stillborn", which was not the case. Dorothy Ann lived 2 days; Margaret 5. Kindly having been supplied with their burial details yesterday morning by a fellow list member; I am now wondering: were they Christened? Is it likely that they were "Christened"? Kindest Regards; Robert KEMSLEY Australia

"Is it likely that they were "Christened"? " I would think they were, more than likely, even if it were post mortem. When you lose a child (or two) so young, there is very little that brings comfort and one's faith is about all there is to lean on. Do you know anything about your grandparents attitude toward religion? If you can trace the priests to a specific parish, you might find the P.R.'s on FreeReg. Cheers, Tod Brown Maine, USA

In a message dated 22/05/2009 00:07:39 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Is it likely that they were "Christened"? ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ They could have been privately baptised. A private baptism is that which may be administered at any time or place according to the exigencies of necessity, i.e. if the child is not expected to live. Stan Mapstone

Hello Robert, I have found the burial records for Dorothy & Margaret Walton; they are buried in Gateshead East Cemetery. Dorothy died aged two days and was buried on the 5th December 1905. Burial number 61729 Margaret died aged 5 days and was buried on the 7th December 1905. Burial number 61747 Both children have their father listed as Robert Walton and their home address was given as 20 Rochester Street. The children are buried in the same grave in section Y grave number 2509. The charge for each burial was six shillings. Rev Parish was the minister for Dorothy's burial Rev Spencer was the minister for Margaret's burial. Margaret Hall, Wallsend. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KEMSLEY, Robert N. G. Sent: 18 May 2009 10:59 To: [email protected] Subject: [DUR-NBL] Possible burial of twin girls b/d 1905 Gateshead? Twould seem I've possible found the twin girls (Stillborn) said born/died to my Grandparents WALTON 1905? Whilst researching my LAYBOURN family recently; I stumbled across a Dorothy Ann WALTON b) December Quarter 1905, Gateshead; My mother was Dorothy Ann WALTON & her Mother was Dorothy Ann LAYBOURN. Thinking this to much of a coincidence; I researched further, finding Dorothy Ann WALTON died the same period. I then went searching for another girl with the same details; finding a Margaret WALTON born/died the same period. I am quite certain; these are the 2 missing twin girls, but have yet to prove. What I am interested in at this time is; where they are likely to be buried and once found; I would be seeking to find if they've a tombstone and if so; what information is recorded on? Any help would be very much appreciated. Kindest Regards; Robert KEMSLEY Australia

<<Nivard wrote. > Have you found your grandparents in 1911? it should state how many > children were born to the marriage>> To add to what Nivard wrote about how many children born to a marriage being shown in the 1911 the entry would also show how many of those children were living and how many had died. It also shows how many years the couple have been married for. Something that you could do perhaps, once you have seen the 1911 census entry and if you still think that those two children might belong in your family, is to place an order for the copies of the entries via the GRO website http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ . If you and add checking information to the order for each entry the GRO will check the entries against your information and will only send you a copy if the entry matches up. You could add the mothers name and maiden name to the birth entries as checking information. The death entries I think might only have the fathers name and his occupation on them. I am going by the two childrens death cert copies for 1846 that I have for my family, they only show them as son and daughter of John Smith seaman, mother's name is not given at all. So I would add the fathers name only to the checking information for the death entries and see what comes up as a result. You will be sent, and your card charged for, copies of any matching entries. but the GRO do also make a charge for checking entries when the entry does not match, I think at present this is about half the cost of a cert. copy, so a little saving and you would not end up with copy certs that are useless to you. Check their website for current charges for checking entries. But first of all try to find the parents entry in the 1911 census and see what that shows for their children, alive and dead. You will find this census via a link on the findmypast site, it is a pay per view census. regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain.

Twould seem I've possible found the twin girls (Stillborn) said born/died to my Grandparents WALTON 1905? Whilst researching my LAYBOURN family recently; I stumbled across a Dorothy Ann WALTON b) December Quarter 1905, Gateshead; My mother was Dorothy Ann WALTON & her Mother was Dorothy Ann LAYBOURN. Thinking this to much of a coincidence; I researched further, finding Dorothy Ann WALTON died the same period. I then went searching for another girl with the same details; finding a Margaret WALTON born/died the same period. I am quite certain; these are the 2 missing twin girls, but have yet to prove. What I am interested in at this time is; where they are likely to be buried and once found; I would be seeking to find if they've a tombstone and if so; what information is recorded on? Any help would be very much appreciated. Kindest Regards; Robert KEMSLEY Australia

Thanks to Doug, Jo & Val for their help on this. Diane _________________________________________________________________ Beyond Hotmail — see what else you can do with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665375/direct/01/

Hi Diane I can now say defintively "Erimus Terrace was along Middlesbrough Road, opposite the Race Course". Middlesbrough Road at that point was known as "the Wilderness". Erimus Terrace was about the only habitation I remember along that road. It was slightly lower than the road and apparently flooded regulalrly. It was adjacent to the line of the old Tees. there were no houses between the corner of Acklam Road in Thornaby and virtually the blind school in Middlesbrough. I am expecting to get some more material which will help me to be even more specific. The actual site is probably lost under the access roads to Teesside Park cheers doug Kyle On 17 May 2009 at 20:59, Diane Ainsley wrote: Hello If anyone has any local knowledge of Thornaby on Tees, I am trying to find out if there was a street called Erineus?? Terrace around the time of WW1 or before. This is from a WW1 service record and is not easy to read. Thank you, in hope. Diane _________________________________________________________________ View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place - Learn more! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/ ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== To Post a message to this list send it to, [email protected] ==== DUR-NBL Mailing List ==== List Web Page http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/durhamgenealogy/index.phtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message