Hi Patrick Thanks,I'll keep checking,my problem is I haven't found Williams(my gr grandfather) birth or death record yet. He just appears in the 1871 marriage cert.and then disappears. He wasn't with his wife and children in the 1881 census,and in the 1891 census his wife declares herself a widow. There was a son born in 1885,so unless there was some hanky panky,he was still alive then.I even know his parents,maybe they were all born in Ireland,although my father told me that William was born in Dundee Thanks again Frank McGonigal