This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DebraNowell Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.dunbar/1176.1.1.4.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dear Mary, I will address the surname issue first and then address what the DNA Project has and has not found out about Robert Dunbar of Hingham MA 1650. I have a list of about 17 reasons for a Dunbar not being Y-DNA related within the same surname. Sally touched on several of them. However, the typical reason is illegitimate births. This is where the birth mother gives her surname to her child due to rape, love, sex orgies, etc. If the child is a boy he will now have the Y-DNA of his birth father but his mother's maiden name and that child will now pass down to his male sons the Y-DNA of his birth father. This is still practiced today. Other reasons: unknown adoptions, woman pregnant by another man at the moment of her marriage, child assimilated into a family and adopts the surname of the host family, (i.e. after the death/disappearance of both parents or after a remarriage and child is known by their stepfather's surname.) Another is the man takes his wife's surname. This is documented many times w/i the noble Dunbar line. And then when a person changes their identity for whatever reasons, e.g. escape justice, avoid persecution, etc. Avoiding religious or identity persecution is probably the number one reason for intentionally changing a surname. Please consider the time period when these events could have occurred. Many of our Dunbar's have their surnames documented back to the 1500-1600's. Robert Dunbar of Hingham MA: Thank you Sally for providing the documented line of descent of Ninian's son Robert. "Ninian's son Robert died in 1659 in Scotland. Ninian's grandson/Robert's son Robert was knighted in 1660, He married Grizzel Brodie in 1654." This ONLY proves, via documentation, that Robert Dunbar of Hingham could not be the son of Ninian. But, Robert could still descend from another branch of the Noble line of Dunbar. No one has ever seen any document showing where Robert of Hingham claimed to descend from Ninian thus ruling out any "fraud" claims. Some well intending researcher put forth this theory in an attempt to link Robert with the Noble line and it stuck. Unfortunately, people have been passing this story down over and over again w/o verifying the research. You will not be the last person to ask this question. What we've discovered about the Y-DNA of Robert of Hingham. The DNA Project has tested the Y-DNA of the hereditary Chieftain along with 2 other paper-trailed Gospatric descendants. All three genetically match. The descendants of Robert of Hingham also match with these 3 men. What this tells us is that Robert and his progeny descend from a branch of the noble line of Dunbar but we don't know which one as yet. Y-DNA testing is still in its infancy and we have lots more to learn. As the technology improves and the databases grow through new participants or additional testing it is our goal to find out how or if all Dunbars are related. Debra Dunbar Nowell Dunbar DNA Project Admin www.DunbarDNA.org Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.