Hi Listers, I have a query which will hopefully not be totally obscured by my fractured logic. If a first son was born and named after the paternal grandfather as per the Scottish naming pattern. Then a second son was born and named after the maternal grandfather. A third son was born and would normally take his father's name but could not because,since the father had the same name as the paternal grandfather,that name had already been given to the first son. Thus he was named arbitrarily. Then say the first son died! Is this son then discounted from the pattern allowing a new,now third son,to take the father's name as the original is now defunct? My apologies for this hypothetical situation the answer to which could send me off into a new frenzy of searching. Ian Ritchie