Dear Irene, Thanks very much for your useful and informative comments.I have only just started on this line really so I am not a member of the D&GFHS yet. Yes the family did appear to move together at sometime before 1841 most likely around 1838 I have found James Murray senior and the five children in all census'from 1841 in County Durham.In all cases the entries refer only to Scotland with the exception of James who once was described as being born Dumfries, Dumfriesshire NBL!!! and Robert Murray who has consistently been quoted as being from Durisdeer,Durrisdeer Duradean amongst other spellings. Do you happen to know if there are registers of births other than the OPR s for non-conformists? Thanks for your feedback Cheers Ian in Hong Kong ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowlandscot@aol.com To: treeman@netvigator.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Fw: MURRAY/DICKSON -Dumfries,Ruthwell&Durisdeer The baptisms would not appear in Scotlandspeople if the family was roman catholic; and they would be less likely to appear if the family were members of a church other than the church of Scotland ..eg episcopalian, free church etc. When did the family move to Co Durham, was it before the 1841 census? Have you found them in all the censuses?..sometimes instead of Scotland you get the actual place. James Murray's being of ruthwell in 1812 only means that he was there when the banns were read, it doesn't follow that he was born there. There are newspapers in Dumfries going back to 1777 .... it might be worth looking for a marriage intimation. If you are a member of the D and G FHS you could probably get someone to look it up for you since the indexes and newspaper fiche are held in the FH centre. Irene